Title: Here and Now for Tuesday, November 13, 2007

" From WBUR in Boston this is here and now a daily digest of news and --"

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" I'm -- young -- here and now on a few minutes our conversation of the Wall Street Journal called it baffling why does Rudy Giuliani. Has such a commanding lead among socially conservative Republicans we'll take a closer look. But first a huge storm is hampering attempts to contain and clean up that massive oil spill in the state of camps in southern Russia. On Sunday in the midst of the storm a single called river tanker on the -- split apart. Spilling 13 hundred tons nearly 560000 gallons of oil. This comes on the heels of -- California they oil spill last week. Joining us Moscow is Christian Science Monitor reporter Fred we're. Fred we're hearing words like disaster and environmental catastrophe put this spill in Russian context for us."

" Well it's certainly it's the -- Ever oil spills in and around Russia and there have been quite a few -- for the big oil producing country this particular bill is enormous and environmentalists well all of these activists are down there and I've talked to a couple of days they are just couldn't -- about the extent of this bill and they say it's going to get much worse because. Storm continues unabated and it's spreading the oil all over cautious Black Sea coast"

" 30000 seabirds are now coated in a whale we're hearing and there are some political obstacles as well as the whether Russia and Ukraine have long disputed who has control over the waterways where this bill is. How is that impacting the cleanup."

" Well our -- of the storm its biggest problem -- Are down the road there its its territorial dispute running down the middle of that straight if he could narrow waterway one side if you crane and the other side and Russia and they nearly came to blows a couple of years ago over sand -- in the middle of it and what hopes that they can put these differences as far as -- string of boomed across. Straight to prevent oil from drifting into the Yugoslav here by this can be crucial because that's a very very delicate ecosystem."

" Tell us more about the boat that was crushed by the storm it was not to double hulled. As American ocean tankers an -- required to be after the Exxon Valdez accident it was a river tanker while I was at being used."

" If it that a big problem in Russia it's oil prices -- hard it is the biggest export. For Russia and it is trying to export as much oil -- possibly -- some older ones they're ignoring was a river -- it had no business being in Wilson's vehicle but it's it's -- crescent -- As part of this program with the standard oil exports and a lot of environmentalists -- pointing to these kind of violations including the widespread in Russia's transport system in the it's quite foreign and change and of course the storm it is the worst storm. In many decades apparently 11 shipped. Our cardinal kind of focus in the -- isn't that in itself with disaster but all these human errors. Have greatly compounded. And and that you -- shipping -- good -- not appropriate for those conditions of course -- and it's a -- costs."

" Well he had not just at that there was a ship that wasn't strong enough that was ferrying the oil but that ship's captain in these weather conditions -- ways. Perhaps shouldn't of tried to pass."

" It's apparently in addition to everything else they ignored storm warnings that would clearly relate to them by the weather service. -- means the Crimea peninsula. They probably in coming up but couldn't and warned shipping in the carriage trade and the kids simply paid little and --"

" And we've been talking about the environmental cost to there's of course human cost as well three sailors bodies of washed a short when he is still missing. Searches were called off because of the dangers whether that's also impeding the cleanup. Is it thought that those lives are lost."

" Well hope it is running joke for those sailors and -- for. Amazingly effective in the weather condition that's 35 Taylor's work actually they if you -- Another aspect of this tragedy no -- it's."

" And rear of the Christian Science Monitor speaking to us from Moscow Fred thanks so much."

" In the presidential race national polls show Republican Rudy Giuliani still holding double digit leads over his closest GOP rivals. And he's running neck and neck compared against Democrat Hillary Clinton John Edwards and Barack Obama. And last week Giuliani surprised many by winning the endorsement of conservative televangelists pat Robertson. How did a New Yorker who backs gun control gay rights and abortion rights for others. Who's had three wives and a very public divorce whose kids are estranged. How do you manage that. The Wall Street Journal -- Giuliani's ability to sustain his lead is striking almost baffling. So today in our ongoing look at the candidates a closer look at Rudy Giuliani in a few minutes. A reporter who's been on the campaign trail with him and says he thinks Giuliani uses tough love with the voters that he's built an image as the toughest guy on the block but first. Reporter whose study Giuliani in New York and says. That reputation as perhaps."

" Undeserved Wayne buried is that Giuliani biographer and senior editor of the village voice newspaper he's recorded some of the hardest hitting stories on. Mayor Giuliani's mayor ship and most recently he expanded his reporting in the book grand illusion the untold story of Giuliani and 9/11 Wayne welcome. -- cells Giuliani's a former federal prosecutor the first Republican in decades to be elected mayor of New York he was called America's mayor for. His response to the terror attacks on 9/11 reminders let's start with just reminding us some of those images an American -- 9/11 after."

" Well I call it is he would seem a moment that this. Visual that I think is that it now in the American mind of him walking into the canyons of lower Manhattan. Pointing north covered and so demand stood up to date we were -- I think. Think really it's that in the age transcends all the other negatives that might. In all ordinarily emperor candidates the ones you mentioned."

" Well -- Juliana back Juliana backer says he say he has every right to campaign on those images. He earned it that day the Wall Street Journal and others are saying and that Giuliani's success as a sign that. For Republicans that image of strength is -- social issue questions. But you say what about that image."

" Well it's kind of the ultimate irony no one would say it I don't 78 covered this prosecutor Colin -- cities is dumb and very smart and it probably the dumbest thing ever did was put the command center of the emergency command center in the only come. Complex -- already been attacked by terrorists in 1993 the World Trade Center complex it was a decision that resisted by all of this perhaps security advisers want to problem. On the police commissioner called it ground zero in 1997. Because it'd already been attacked and urged him not to put it -- but he insisted on putting it there and of course that's the reason he was at the scene of the crime that -- I mean most Americans. I think here's a guy who rushed. To this scene of the attack or actually by his own account in his book leadership he was he jumped in the car was headed to the command. And -- which was located at seven world trade Bernie kerik the police commissioner was standing in front of seven world trade waiting for -- But -- get down there they authority issues vacate order for that buildings -- we had no functioning command center that day one of the things -- laid -- in the book and we do it with quotations from virtually every person. Including the senior attorney who oversaw that 9/11 commission chapter six chapter nine that deals with the city's response to all of them told -- that the decision. To locate the command center it's seven at the consequence of not having -- functioning commands that are that -- cost first responder lives."

" Look at some of the other things that you say that -- mistakes do -- makes. Even as he now campaigns as someone who's not just tough on terabyte a security expert and -- written that you know you think those claims are bunk infect. Big lies as you called on me -- just tick off some of your criticisms."

" Well recently reporter's story in the voice from -- and -- private. Testimony before the 9/11 commission which is sealed until December 2008 strangely enough but I got a cap the other and his own testimony contradicts the way he portrays himself this is testimony he. He delivered to two members of the commission and five staff members on April 20 of 2004 and where is he now goes around the country saying Benoit declared war -- Nobody heard him. But I heard I understood it that's almost a direct -- it's -- repair is of this commented Regent University pat Robertson university and he describes -- Himself as an expert on terrorism. Who's been studying it for 35 years and his private testimony in 2004 he -- is the first time I ever had a -- Al Qaeda it was after 9/11 he describes the briefing. Indeed table that he received from a man named Josef book and -- who wrote a book about bin -- that was published in 1999 and predict this spectacular attack on New York and Washington in 1999 -- he's reading the book and being briefed by boat and ski in the all of 2001 after 911 in thesis in the private testimony it was a mistake. Likely unlikely to hear this on the campaign trail he says. It it was a mistake for him not to have been briefed earlier."

" You were you when you -- there's a long list of prisons -- have agreeing that he didn't investigate and prosecute terror cases as he claimed that he wasn't prepared for the second world trade tower attack is you've just said even though the first one gave many of a warning to people didn't set up the first office of emergency management for three years after that and has he said that put the control center in the in the worst place didn't make the radios interoperable between the fire in the police. Only if all of this is is true and you use your your writing has you know then applauded. His opponents attacking him on it."

" Political beginning to see that from John McCain I think McCain as a candidate with the greatest credibility to raise these questions considering his own record the McCain when he had announced. The first time -- many months ago. He had a reference to the fact that the radios or not it dropped interoperable I want acceptable was -- New York Times went up on its web site that afternoon saying it was clear shot -- Giuliani though he didn't use Giuliani's name I was sent Keith -- show that night at the same thing but by the morning McCain's people were pulling back and saying no he's talking about a federal regulatory agency he was not referring to -- you'll. Active and in fact the Federal Communications Commission gave the city a unique waiver to get additional frequencies so we could make it radios interoperable between police and fire they did that in 95 and -- never acted on."

" Ronning to if it's not -- the 9/11 commissioners at least two of them road and that they didn't ask Rudy Giuliani took questions -- want to criticize a hero hundred there's something of that going on but also. If that matters to the voters -- a couple minutes left and I just want to you know ask you about perception because we hear your criticisms but. People perceive him as a leader and a recent -- 177% of voters in New Hampshire -- him favorably. -- isn't he knows there's some validity to people feeling that they feel strength from Rudy Giuliani and feel that he led on 9/11."

" Well you know the president was. Connection Rudy Giuliani was there the visual can't -- these civil rights things both that immediate aftermath so the question is. Do Linear -- commander as to what he actually did contrary to. Both of the image and the rhetoric of the day in the days afterwards is there any of -- about the failures to prepare this city about his company. Ignorant about terrorism even though his was the city that had been attacked. Did any of those it will any of these facts matter and they will only matter -- opponents separate them. Opponents -- credibility like -- who seems to be getting to take actually any certainly."

" Ramada Carrick and -- properly in the last few days. Org immediate -- that -- media to Washington. Posted at a particular fairly good story raising some of these questions but most of the print media truck from there at the television he would still tied up but -- apology --"

" That's Wayne Barrett village voice and also author of through a grand illusion the untold stories of the Giuliani and 9/11 Wayne thanks so much. And when we come back Rudy Giuliani on the campaign trail -- reporter who's there that's after one minute break here now. I'm Robin young it's here and now we're kidding our look at a Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani who's leading. His Republican rivals by double digits in national calls even though. Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney tops Giuliani in the early voting states of island New Hampshire. With us on the line now a Los Angeles Times political correspondent -- often co author of the book one party country the Republican plan. For dominance in the 21 century and Peter your third -- thoughts first on Wayne Barrett's conclusion that. You know Rudy Giuliani has sort of like fake front of being terrorism expert and it's if his opponents start you know -- at that. He will fall."

" Well do you. You know -- certainly deferred -- excellent reporting on Giuliani's record in New York but but but yes -- I think that there are some potential weaknesses there that its opponents could pick up on over the course of the campaign although they haven't yet there are indications that and if you look at the polls Giuliani is leading all the national polls but his support is pretty -- it's what we've found an RLA times polls. Recently both in the early states and nationally. Is that although Giuliani leads I big majority of Republicans are willing to change there vote and Giuliani again although he needs he really has never gotten out of the low 30s it's such a crowded field to very fluid. Situation the Republican primary the it's still below 30 department says it's not like what we've seen on the doubles."

" Sure but it's more than doubled 16% of David John McCain the 50% of back Fred Thompson in Wall Street Journal NBC news poll and Mitt Romney's Beckett fourth nationally that you you're out out on the trail -- is Giuliani -- some instinct I think he talks like a New Yorker did people in other parts of the -- very British very AM. What's the word -- with -- for very tough love to give us some examples."

" Welcome interstate you know I went out with him recently to New Hampshire to whether they've -- north country which is pretty rural and and I read a few stories elsewhere that Giuliani had softened himself and and even chuckling laughing and he was had to -- was trying to change them is a little bit so I expected something different but you know I got there and followed him around to various small towns and there was one example in the morning. And that -- that I was with them he got a question from a from a nine year old girl about she punishment is a very extremely cheated what about the damages. And he just kind of looked at Richard what are you talking about the lawsuit reform. And she did not know the images like you know. Nine at like 9/11 that she was talking about it damaged the terrorist attacks. And he kind of started waving his finger and talking about how the Democrats are afraid to use the term Islamic terrorism it is kind of a strange approach to it discussion -- nine year old girl"

" do you think -- candidate might take an opportunity to comfort her."

" Yeah it was you you would think that somebody who was a little bit more my guess stepped and that without personal touch."

" You know and yet that's maybe -- of the tough guys that some people are bracing we're you know we're seeing reports everywhere that this is what's happening with Giuliani can see that -- his. His perceived strength is chomping at things like is social issues. But we're also reading that voters polled said their concern that Giuliani is running based on 9/11 has little experience on foreign policy his senior foreign policy adviser none other than norm pirates who was been described as the intellectual guru of neo conservatives they of course supported the war in Iraq and there's and we -- you wonder Goodwill. You know he be ideologically linked with what is an unpopular war and the administration behind it."

" Well he may be other I think that that's an issue that that might be more about the concern during the general elections none other Republican candidates had been out of the top Republican candidates -- faith. Is is is that it's really distancing themselves from Bush's foreign policy at the moment really the only criticism we've seen on the bush foreign policy abroad senses from Giuliani who says that bush hasn't been tough enough on the on on Pakistan's government so. He's not so that that's not something that Republican primary voters are going to punish important fact. What polls seem to suggested that as you mentioned earlier to -- did national security issues art -- trumpet cultural issues that are Republican primary and it will and that and that's unusual."

" rally he -- it again and this is the Wall Street Journal NBC news poll. He leads is contenders among self identified very conservative Republicans and weekly churchgoers he's tied with McCain and Thompson among evangelicals. Even though he's had a very public divorce. A third wife as you mentioned he's personally against abortion but pro choice pro gay rights -- want you to. When as a candidate is a candidate required he sort of like by some unwritten rule in America to be -- discussing. His family life because his personal story goes back further Wayne who we were just speaking doing Barrett uncovered in this his father and uncles had ties to organized crime his father sent to prison for robbing a milkman of the -- pulled that. His father didn't enforcer for bookings and loan sharks. -- said he didn't know of these things and he became an enforcer you know prosecutor. When does that story is required that he somehow address that on the campaign trail."

" It seems that a lot of people know and again we're talking in the context of a Republican primary at the moment -- It and we -- talk but the general elections later but indeed."

" There's not much later so put -- in now."

" What else did it the it's just not hurting him and we find that voters do know about that aspect of his history they know about his that they seem to know about his views on social issues. Maybe they don't know they don't quite know yet but he -- strange performance from his kids and and big question there it will an opponent or a third party group let the voters in you know I was talking to the South Carolina Republican chairman. Who was predicting that some third party group would probably go up with TV ads in South Carolina sometime in the next six weeks or so Schilling Giuliani dressed in drag."

" We chi does quite often apparently had a different events."

" That's true. Now that's something that could hurt him with Republican primary voters when they see that."

" You'll often interpret some politics of the Los Angeles Times he's -- threw the book one party country the Republican plan for dominance in the 21 century. Just in the few seconds we have Peter looking ahead how what do you see ahead for the Giuliani campaign."

" Well again they're going to keep on this strategy at about strength and national security -- cultural issues."

" And winning the big states and not and forgoing the early primaries."

" They're actually not -- for the early primaries they've decided they have to compete in New Hampshire they cannot pleasant Romney win Iowa win New Hampshire has gained momentum I think that Giuliani campaign decided that would be too much to overcome."

" Peter Wilson thinks is Italy's. Okay quick look ahead should residents of Washington DC be allowed to own a handgun and will. The Supreme Court weigh in on what the second amendment says. About the individual's right to bear arms that's still to come after the news here and now."

" The Supreme Court is considering whether or not to take -- the case that would test the second amendment right to keep and bear arms. The basic question is does the second amendment protects an individuals rights to keep and bear arms or is that right tied to membership in -- state militia. In 1939 the -- in the criminal case that I sawed off shotgun is not one of the arms included in the rights in the second amendment but. The court has been -- on the issues since then now the court is being asked to rule on a strict gun control law in the district of Columbia. The law bars all possession of handguns in homes. in March a federal appeals court declared the DC ban unconstitutional. The district of Columbia appealed to the Supreme Court and gun rights advocates couldn't be happier they want the case to -- because they want to know what is the second amendment -- The case is the creation of Robert Levy he's senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute -- prominent libertarian think tank. He financed he original lawsuit challenging the DC law he recruited the plaintiffs. And he joins us now with more welcome."

" They -- Mr. Levy your stand and you're against some forms of gun control you interpret the second amendment is meaning an individual has the right to keep their arms who want to hear more about that. But first just tell us how did you shake your case how did you pick the courageous to make the case one that you wanted to take forward."

" There were actually three triggering it's one was an outpouring. Scholarship second amendment especially from liberals. The second was the holding by the fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in any case and to one -- United States he Emerson. That was the first federal Court of Appeals to determine that the second amendment security individual right. And the certain development was the supportive position taken by the US Justice Department for the first time informal court papers. Indicating that it to support. Individual rights Q and a with respect of the planets we wanted gender diversity we want to racial diversity. We wanted economic age diversity obviously we want to DC residents who believed fervently in -- gun rights and actually thwarted loaded weapons in their homes because they -- Threatened and had a need to defend themselves."

" So these are not -- and it criminal cases people caught with guns the sole reason that these plaintiffs want to be involved in the case is that they. Want to have -- have guns in the home for self defense."

" Effects of these cases were compelling Shelly parker the lead plaintiff. A -- lights threatened by drug dealers Richard -- to do it every day to Goran -- office building has a special police officer but can't get to go to. Take home to guard themselves and his wife another plane it was a gay colleague of mine Cato Institute he had been accosted outside of DC but I. Almost for the folks who threatened to slice and was only able to. Save themselves because you have to have a look at -- an inspector he could've done that Washington DC."

" What will it mean to you if the court does take this question --"

" There have been arguments on both sides about whether. -- laws make us less safe form -- horses aren't thinking overwhelming evidence the more gun laws we have the Warsaw and that's fundamentally this case is not a doubt that kind of empirical that it's about. The meaning of the US constitution particularly the meaning in the second amendment there Americans who want to be able to send themselves all across the country. Andy our corporate waiting for the Supreme Court to issue -- foursquare pronouncement with -- commitment means."

" We're not gonna debate the issue here we want to find out more about you as a lawyer taking this in a case for the Supreme Court one of the -- lawyers on the case that. So well 11 thought you're aware I'm sure of reports most recently from the Harvard school of public health this data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Saying states with the greatest numbers of guns in the home also have the highest homicide rates. Under the gun for instance might be more likely to -- a situation from an argument to a killing or murder. Square that with your thinking -- you know more gun laws make us less safe."

" We noticed is that inflation post. Cause and effect I mean after all stores with more when does have more burglaries that doesn't mean that the bird treats are called by the bars they put the -- some. When the because they're an area where burglaries occur. In the same fashion people have guns when they're in an area where it's necessary to protect themselves so it's not surprising. I think the important it to the federal government agencies have examined exhaustively. Gun controls and found no statistically significant evidence to support their attempts at a national academy of sciences in 2004. And there was a similar study a year earlier by the Centers for Disease Control."

" And you've written you say that you believe the promising guns it's human pathology problems like drug and alcohol abuse dysfunction and you don't want to say banning in regulating guns in the solution enforcing existing laws is and I just. I want to ask you about that because if infect the Supreme Court rules that individuals do have a right to own guns. What do you mean that many of the existing laws that you say should be upheld would be to spend."

" Some will be just ended but I don't think there's anybody who believes that you can't regulate some weapons like missiles and some people liked kids and and felons and crazy people. And some users like murder. The question is what kinds of regulations can be sustained under an individual rights view -- second amendment. And clearly there's some regulations like an outright ban abortion DC all handguns that simply go to form."

" States' rights as a libertarian. Is not important here."

" You know the whole notion of -- balance -- changed in 1868 and 14 amendment was ratified and so the 14 amendment's the federal right to intervene if states were violating fundamental rights is this surgeon for the secured by the bill of rights. Well the second amendment as part of the rights and as the state states are violating the second amendment and the federal government can step and then stopped that was violations from occurring."

" So you're saying you know for instance inner cities that feel they're they're having more gun trafficking more issues with guns and let's say perhaps. The suburbs that have a lower crime rate you feel they don't have the right to call for their own gun bans."

" Not for an outright gun they do have the right to imposed gun controls justice they have rights for example to impose lost. Against shouting article of theater or disturbing the peace all of this -- within within the Arab states even though the First Amendment says commercial system law."

" Good business into an easy business we'll Washington DC -- don't mean that this is a city that feels Lebanese to call for gun ban."

" Washington DC has determined that no remorse in DC -- their right to own and that simply isn't unreasonable regulation under no stretch of the second amendment that the condemned."

" How would you if you if you think that cities that have issues an -- have issues with gun violence has the right to legislate against guns. How would you word gun ban in an area -- that would be your satisfaction."

" There -- some things we can comfortably identified as being unacceptable and other things we can possibly been identified as being acceptable unacceptable outrage in the -- martian decent acceptable would be Japan for example and so -- possessing guns -- on kids having -- crazy people possessing and using Serbs regulations acceptable what an individual -- view the second amendment does it establishes a presumption that we have liberty to own guns. It doesn't mean government can't. Regularly it does mean the government has to justify. Its regulations. Government can justify some regulations but not actions and one that they can't just in the outrage in the -- martian decent."

" Levy will you do -- the Supreme Court says it will not take up this question."

" Well this should be a victory for the presence of course in DC because it means that the Court of Appeals decision. Will become -- Preston Washington. There's still not a question of whether or not to second amendment applies to the states Washington DC is not a stick to that question didn't come -- and."

" So we'll have to perhaps they had a 70 years and Robert Levy senior fellow in constitutional studies at the Cato Institute thanks so much thank you. And this note there was no word J or -- today from the Supreme Court and whether they will takeover -- case and perhaps decide the second amendment means. The next time we -- here on this issue is November of course covered them before we go to data good old days of punk rock in pictures. You're listening to hear him now yeah."

" Are you still looking for a farmer's market that opened in November searching for a locally grown lettuce. Well -- you may be the word of the year the new Oxford American dictionary takes a word every year that they predict will be on everyone's lips. Then Zimmer is the editor of the new Oxford American dictionary he joins us and then this year's winner is."

" The winner is loca -- The local -- Spell it. It's spelled LO BA PO RT define it means someone who endeavors to eat only locally grown locally produced food yeah --"

" Well I'm -- a lot of words that are sort of lost in the mists of time that is -- that we actually know exactly where it came from there was group of four women in San Francisco two years ago who issued a challenge to people in the Bay Area to traded only eat foods that were available to them that. Where grown with that of 100 mile radius. And they call themselves the local callers Internet today issued -- challenge -- a lot of other regional groups that it took up that. Some of them call themselves local -- is that that the original -- local -- could be the popular one and it's really taken up since then."

" NASA eating locally trying to buy things locally I infected so don't tell -- little with last year's where the year which was the phrase carbon neutral describing. Sending -- emits no carbon backside or offsets carbon emissions because. Local lawyers believe that by eating locally where things they do is reduce carbon emissions."

" That's correct because of course when he ships food to Portland distances that requires more fossil fuel for transportation so there's -- strong environmental argument but it tells us that the arguments of taste. Food that is fresh and local tastes better and the proponents of this movement also say it's more nutritious."

" Well boy you can tell it's -- movement on the move because he just keeps popping up these new words one of the runner ups for this year is the word up cycle. Which means what"

" that the transformation waste materials into something more useful or valuable."

" Am -- so on to something you're gonna be seeing more eco friendly words popping up."

" Well that's definitely something that we've noticed here at Oxford University press so lexicon refers to -- that experience together are finding that. The green movement is having a tremendous effect not a vocabularies English language on new words and phrases that people are using and to describe changes in lifestyle."

" ET have to make up the words if they don't already exist let's take a look at some of the other runners up. Aging in place it's a phrase that it feels like something I do and I don't get out enough for what would it would 18 places well."

" Well that's defined in the process of growing older well living in one -- residences and says having to move to a new home or community that the -- really of providing more. Freedom to seniors to allowed them to grow -- there while not having to move somewhere else."

" Colony collapsed disorder this is the phenomenon that's resulted in the disappearance of honeybees"

" yes have in this who has access something that's still hasn't been explained by scientists and this is certainly something that got a lot of coverage because of its first observed just in late 2006 and people are still trying to figure out world honeybees went."

" And mumble Clark."

" Normal -- an interesting one that's that's an American independence. Film movement by 20 somethings who are making low budget movies using non professional actor is two have a lot of dialogue in the movies that's improvised and one -- that people in the this group called it mumble colour that was mentioned that the south by southwest film festival and all of the journalists started writing about it -- had as its new American salute."

" And ego -- a person who has not been diagnosed with a former cancer but has survived a genetic predisposition for Kansas and -- but we want to. Close on one -- we remember when this came in lexicon. Case and don't taste me -- to be stunned with a taser and it there was at University of Florida student who was filmed. Being stunned by -- public forum."

" Yes that's so we -- look back formation wearing particular case there. And you creative her about it I attorney isn't it pays which has been spelled as -- PA at the Bertie ADE. And that definitely had a kind of pop culture moment helped along a youtube video where all of -- sudden people we're using that Serb quite --"

" You -- Netanyahu and then -- is the editor of the new Oxford American dictionary looking at the words of 2007 the word of the year is. Local life then thanks so much for speaking thank you. But in a moment ago I said the Supreme Court might next address that second amendment case in November I -- that it November 20 sex second minute here and now. I'm running young it's here and now. When the Sex Pistols began their reunion to indicate this past weekend there was no swearing onstage at the request of today's because. He's young son was in the audience. Hard to believe from the been marked queen Elizabeth's -- movie in 1977 by blasting. God save the queen -- of human being from a charter boat on the -- That stunt ended with a police -- messages -- another way it's great -- success. Today bands like green gain from fighters have gone mainstream with a revived."

" and -- pop songs are used on commercials. But we don't look back at Johnny rotten the cramps the damned Debbie Harry. And the spirit that inspired punk with music writer holly George Warren author of punk 365. And you can think of a big book of photographs from the brief and raucous era of punk welcome thanks for having me you know -- we should just to have Trimmer."

" At the beginning any some people may if they don't in the music -- the images that -- teacher to safety pins the Mohawk haircuts. The Justine over the years and and the the pre punk postponed just give -- a little outline. Bryant and for this book I really wanted to give a few images from the feed hunt years that really affected. Not only the music but also the look of punk even going back to the 60s and the Velvet Underground and -- thing with you know love a black leather and songs about whips and things like that. Definitely helped to inspires in the later imagery. In the 70s with content. Definitely in New York with that the early scene with Richard Howell who started out with television and began doing the ripped T shirts and fortunately as able to get Richard action -- a forward to the box so. And in his forward Richard hell of Richard Allen avoid -- remembers that the original bands -- there's going to conquer the world and so they kind of themselves in these self destructed. And he -- the music was due to be enjoyed by common sewers. We think he means. Well at that time it was really us against found the cause Prague -- was so huge at the time we throughout Prague just that -- overblown ever produced kind of sat down like everything from. You know rushed to king crimson too old Moody Blues -- just become kind of bombastic and music had really moved away from that three chord rock and all which. With the early 50s the original sound of rock and all that came out of rockabilly in aren't be. And that original -- all spirit as what fueled the punks in New York. And also in London and then and LA that's asserted he can't do that you self the -- lions Patti Smith who read. Pared down this town. All right well Patti Smith was definitely one of the pioneers even before. -- the term McCain kind of a catch word she was already again looking back to everything from the girl groups too early -- Rolling Stones before they became so. Pampered rock star types you know. And putting forth and motion in the music. Caring more about that and how well he can play. Some fancy guitar lead them on internment."

" No paging through."

" No effusive joy division onstage in 1939 new movie out about that -- in the there's death of their lead singer you know he committed suicide that and there's the Bos Cox 1979."

" It Jonathan Richman is he looks like a baby John light in pay you know they all look so young and fresh faced any I don't think they saw it then. Now they looks like there's sort of young people trying to for indie pop trying really hard to look Carter."

" There's even a couple of -- images where he still has a little certain innocence to -- if you go to the end of the book went punk really was making inroads in all different kinds of music and the whole MTV air in the mid 80s. Again we still see you beat and he still kind of -- father time. Same thing -- big yeah. -- include many here people that we expect to see. You know in a listing of punk -- season -- she's within that Detroit's and C five. But also the Beastie Boys U two Madonna some curious my. You know maybe be shot accidentally releasing their by the 80s certain elements of -- mostly the image but some of the other the emotion ink Eric. Was seeping into other forms of music so I wanted to show how that happened in the 80s and how even early Madonna who was. Living like a punk squatting at this place called the music building in New York City -- and punk bands rehearse wearing them black rubber bracelets in other desperately seeking Susan era Madonna. Definitely aim was inspired by the whole idea of -- doing yourself she mintier from Michigan I'm going to start a band and her original music was very clunky the same thing with people like sending a -- her her own band I was kind of part of punk movement. Very much so was influenced by Scott and reggae."

" And the I don't."

" The Beastie Boys I can tell you play punk rock and they were hardcore band. Their very first ever EP -- do was actually mixed in. My saint marks place apartment by my boyfriend at the time because the squat where they were recording got busted by the cops so. They were very much a hardcore band at the beginning and then they sank late in the hip pop that's that started happening you know later on."

" Put it was a good movement for women could see highlighted that go goes the B 52 part you reminded that when you paged through. Exactly and it wasn't only women for the first time. Populate an entire -- and it but also women are out there in the trenches taking photographs. If it's something that's just instills in now especially since I'm thinking -- to get a -- you know everybody's got tattoos now in. Is it something that just got co opted -- artists smoothed out and it sort of gone."

" Well I think that image definitely got co opted just like back in my day when when I was getting into the punk scene. You know the whole original 50s rockabilly people it's slipped back pocket door hair and that kind of thing that made its way into the punk scene as well. But I think as far as the actual -- he the hardcore scene for example it still lives on to an extent and some of the harder more strict in non career kind of punk -- definitely still exists. I don't think that has actually been. Taken over by the mainstream I think that's still -- especially now with the Internet there's this whole a little. Subculture that exist of magazines and recordings available on the Internet of bands that are into that much more aggressive much more. Dissonant kind of style -- you know than -- has made it into you know radio air play like the green days and even -- distortions and people like that."

" So much talked about in the punk movement that we didn't even once mentioned Sid and Nancy. -- have Romeo and Juliet of punk him of course both dying tragically he killed her that's still argued about and -- circles people still argue about it -- that related killings and really we there's all kinds of theory says she was actually murdered by someone else and he was just so drug -- that he you know didn't really know what happened he could remember any thing and yes of course he ended up dying in you know I think -- really tip of Nancy and I think. They had this really twisted sick relationship."

" But it was definitely the placards in the if well I guess we did mentions an -- he he. Tell your story -- other punk to succeed news that big book of photos and the brief but -- era of -- to see some of the pictures. And links to videos from the time -- take you to know that holly thanks so much. Things happen."

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