Title: Here and Now for Friday, November 16, 2007

" From WBUR in Boston this is here and now a daily digest of news and --"

" Support for this public radio podcast comes from dog -- dot com. All of these search engines piled into one Google Yahoo! lives search and ask."

" I'm -- young -- here and now in a moment a conversation about scapegoating we know it destroys people but does it actually make the perpetrators physically healthier. But first congress is getting ready for two week break with crucial legislation pending so there's a flurry of activity on Capitol Hill today. the Senate rejected two rival war spending bills the first to follow Republican bill that would have paid 70 billion dollars. For the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan without any strings attached. Minutes after that bill failed senators also rejected a democratic bill that would have funded the Iraq war but require that troops start coming home the US. Democratic leaders said earlier this week that if congress cannot pass legislation that ties war funds to troop withdrawals. They would not and the president anymore war funding bills this year. Also today -- in the Senate blocked the popular farm bill so a lot going on joining us now against had a Capitol Hill correspondent for the Christian Science Monitor in -- to work finding. This war's been funded entirely I think under emergency funding for years was this the Democrats last chance at trying to attach strings to funding."

" All the little things around we'll. I think it's -- little purple and an obstacle -- and the problem for Democrats from the beginning. Which is going to depend on the Pentagon to tell them what the impact of their control the true. -- secretary teeth came in faculty members of congress earlier this week. He told them that there was enough money to keep the army quote until. Be mid February and the leaned into the beginning of the facts. For instigating a press briefing he says that if congress to meet its case for war funding immediately. And he would have -- connect the end of this week got tangled firing at you have to cut making layoffs. To kind of conflict -- said he liked it cost him he can. -- his stories but the fact community and today. Democrats do not want to have to face the argument that day has deprived kids from the field all of the equipment they need to try to block."

" Well and so what is the funding going to -- will attend. What form is it going to come in when is it an accountant"

" net proceeds from Canada could bring it up again until power because -- significant until January. I I don't know with a different it is going to feel pressured to -- again given the reaction if you are not dependent with a Q when they come home over the next week."

" Well let's move to other topics the Senate as we said rejected due to an 86 billion dollar farm bill this morning and you you -- talked about this that President Bush is positioning this as the Democrats port built. He says they're the ones supporting the subsidies to farmers and pivotal election states so what's happening here."

" What's striking about this debate on the -- that he you almost won't make you talk about the power consistent funding a little if Arafat procedure. Republicans say -- the funds -- the pack pistols and opened amending process hundreds of and then this has been offered. And had agreed to leave Majority Leader wants to cut off Republican amendment hasn't had. Two weeks of debate with no amendments being discussed it so he'd like to protect that -- simply amendment that have to do with. With the agriculture Republican -- issues such as immigration that a credible for Democrats collect votes from moderate Democrats come next here."

" Well meanwhile agriculture committee chair Tom Harkin said yesterday they. They may just extend the current by and the years. -- has -- the Alternative Minimum -- just a few seconds -- originally it was meant to target the very -- but with inflation and -- Americans why -- the move to raise the income of those -- Passing with flying --"

" Because his abilities and to move any bill that threatened to move -- all the extra packets of our patients Republican -- that. They won't he not be taken estimates we often take up. -- have considered set to expire in 2010 Democrats wanted to -- stick --"

" Thompson -- sum up the session the new fiscal year. As a dirty started and where so where are we in in what was able you know to be passed."

" Mentally I think you -- within two new identities and opinionated all potential from now on -- distant -- is fairly limited but nothing consequential effect with a minimum wage is higher than it was and Democrats took over the congress a technical I kissed him. More aggressive than it was kind of Republicans contend -- major piece of legislation. I think he could look equivalent look at point as the market much politically motivated but thinking about what's going to happen next to the impact."

" Guilty at a Capitol Hill correspondent for the Christian Science Monitor -- thanks as always welcome and this final note from congress today former House Speaker Dennis pastor to a one time wrestler. Made his farewell speech from the house floor this week --"

" The madam speaker. There's a tradition among Olympic wrestlers that you leave your shoes and a mad after your last match. Well don't be alarmed that speaker. But I'd do whole. That I have left a few footprints behind it."

" Well politicians do that whole countries do it animals do it I sometimes student you've probably due to. It's scapegoating or displaced aggression it has personal consequences that are also has health and political consequences. And according -- doctor David bearish there are evolutionary reasons why people do it why they scapegoat others. Data -- University of Washington psychology professor he's written a fascinating article about all of this. In the chronicle of higher education and we though it's been -- few minutes with him now professor welcome. Thank you might that this redirected anger underlies literature history religion -- criminal courts are battlefields our homes our hearts. Let's start with these fascinating studies that you site. That -- it's actually good for the health of the perpetrators because it what relieve stress."

" Yeah it is that essentially that I don't mean to the implied by the way that it could -- because of the fact they think exactly the opposite case. But unfortunately it is good biologically from the animal or that human who's doing it what we know for instances if you take. Rats with and you give them a stressful situations and it and then at the same time provide them with -- an opportunity. To attack someone else there'll stressed parameters are diminished."

" Well let's talk about these rat experiments had. I agree with US into a -- said the poor rats went yeah we can we learn from them if -- read has put an indication that electrified floor he's constantly shocked he develops terrible sometimes fatal ulcers from the stress. If however you put a wooden stick in the cage he chews on it and the ulcers are greatly reduced. But if you put another rat in the cage 858. And there are no also at all the -- has read directed distress outside himself."

" The symptoms of the original. Victim are almost --"

" And the symptoms of the -- that was attacked our huge."

" Well that's right the -- but it you know as far as the one doing the attacking that's not the issue is -- its -- stress and again this -- fascinating I think Robinson troublesome fascinating because -- sense that this tendency. To respond to pain by inflicting pain. Someone else may be quite deep in biology but at the same time what's troublesome is because it's so deepened by analogy it's going to be hard to replicate --"

" Who you say that people who strike Canada others in response to pain are less likely to be victimized in the first place in. It's sort of has become a beneficial evolutionary trait you know a survival of the fittest."

" I think that's true the technical term now it is this behavior and Republicans selected for -- if you consider highly social species. Like rats or human beings for instance we're really exquisitely aware of who's doing what to whom. And so for the individual gets attacked and fails to respond. Other individuals they will get the idea hey this is an easy marks."

" And you can applying that kind of thinking two societies to families -- are there because we know how this works in a dysfunctional home I don't mean to be flipped panel. But there's that phrase dead hits mom mom hits the child a child hits the dog. But you say that if it goes even further that families can actually have a designated transcribe sir how how does this scapegoating work in that instance."

" Within families. When there are problems in the family to be alcoholism cause problems violence not uncommonly there's an individual who was identified as the bad -- and it may not beat the alcohol equivalent it was violent it's simply individuals who everyone else essentially dump -- And in doing so it may be that this -- the other family members are helping themselves but certainly they're not helping the ones getting dumped on and of course they're not helping. Several family situation because it becomes a way of avoiding the real problem."

" This is from time immemorial you remind -- that the old testament gives us sort of the derivation of the free scapegoating. People metaphorically putting all their problems on the head of the -- and then."

" Yet but literally this little would scapegoating come -- in the old testament. Ancient is ancient Jews would recite. Specific intent -- that said they are essentially placing the sins of the community upon the head of the goat and the goal is then either. Driven out of the encampment. Or is ritualistic slaughters and in the in the course of dual. Apparently what happens is that people in question feel better and as a consequence and of course that gave rise to the term scapegoat."

" we find it will you go back through history of the Jews many times and especially during the great plague reaches any time times were hard. And the fascinating study about African Americans in the history of America taking that role of the designated transplants are especially in bad economic times."

" That's right an accurate -- it's not so much taken the role role was really -- of if this is that a very renowned piece of research planetary of social psychologist who. Essentially found that they could predicts the frequency of lynchings. In the Americans. If they simply -- the price of cotton on the world exchange and the latest work is when the price of cotton went up the frequency of lynchings. Went down when the price of cotton went down frequently mentioned went up. And apparently what was happening is with the economy so dependent on -- when the price of cotton went down. That meant that economic times were people who are suffering. And in fact as a consequence of that pain of that hurt they would look for scapegoats because they weren't consciously blaming. African Americans for the fact that the price cut was well. Nevertheless they were hurting and it's when people are hurting that they are particularly susceptible to looking for scapegoats."

" Well and that brings us to how how countries can scapegoat you give examples for instance in the Balkans Lawrence Wexler writing in the New Yorker. Describes seeing this in one community where Muslims have been driven out by Serbs."

" Yes this is -- of a dramatic case in the kind of hard you Luka which used to be majority Muslims. The Serbs essentially ethnically cleansed and destroyed mosques. Wouldn't wish -- ask one of the but young Serbs there why this happened he says. It was because the -- they destroyed our orthodox churches. Well -- this stuff you work with Catholics and this happened during World War II Nazi occupation. But we have the situations in which the the Croats destroyed it -- churches orthodox Serbs who responded that put responded in quotes here would -- put it in -- who responded a ethnically cleansing Muslims. Who has nothing to. Who actually original transmission is a classic case of scapegoating and one that I think we need to identify again not just an ancient times and not just been. Halftime as long as those -- of the fact I think it's going on right now."

" That's University of Washington professor David bearish on the age old practice of scapegoating when we come back well is the Iraq war scapegoating. And later a home schooler polls -- that thousands of Christian home schoolers in Iowa might be pushing candidate Mike huckabee ahead of Mitt Romney why. Mitt Romney wants to give them a tax break why isn't he ahead. Back in one minute here and now."

" About the more from doctor David Berisha a University of Washington psychology professor. Who's researched scapegoating. Professor bearish -- is Lawrence Wexler summarizes scapegoating as went. No hits Larry and Larry turns around and cobbers curly. You apply that to the war in Iraq you quote the New York Times Thomas Friedman who whether it was an early backer of the war but. Came to think that the unstated reason for the war. Was America's need after 9/11 to quote stick it to someone in the Arab Muslim world anyone. And you'll agree that Saddam Hussein became the scapegoat for the unreachable Osama bin Laden but. We know many of the architects of the war in Iraq wanted to take down Saddam Hussein long before Osama bin Laden carried out --"

" Absolutely I have no doubt that it be evident at this point is undeniable that. Most of those neo cons to came along with George Bush in 2001 had already planned and hoped to invade Iraq and for them I think 9/11 was an opportunity an excuse not a reason. However at that time the great majority the American public supported that war they were those like myself and many others who protested but the truth is. It was a very popular invasion initially at a particular reason it was so popular originally is that most Americans felt immense pain at nine and and were desperate to strike at someone anyone. And -- sense of -- actually would argue that the invasion of their -- an immense blunder. It was also a stroke of brilliance at least at this time because I think the administration recognized the need on the part of the American public. The strike packets someone in the fact that by doing so they would be popular. In fact there was a sound a little pity that made its way around the Internet just prior to the invasions that this is it two"

" if you're happy and you know it."

" He had an Atlanta if you cannot find Osama bomb Iraq if some markets are your mama bomb Iraq. Is that repossess your Audi and the terrorists are Saudi and you're feeling kind of rowdy bomb Iraq. I hate to laugh at it because of all the or encourage this has been involved that there is something. Well if that wasn't so tragic it would be something downright comical about this motive Larry Larry it's currently."

" Full professor 1 lead to -- all of this then. You say that this scapegoating is redirected a good. Aggression to a third party away from the person who caused you harm actually has been evolutionary early good to -- those who do it. And against everything that we were taught as children that infect if you act -- against other people that the perpetrators of violence is the one who is being eaten up -- side. And you're saying that studies show that that's not true so why shouldn't everyone do this in order to --"

" Because if nothing else we've come a long way from the days when our biology is the only thing that should be directing and motivated behavior. I also think that the fact that something underpins our behavior are inclined to -- a certain direction doesn't mean that we ought to do it."

" There might not -- makes me healthier and more likely to be the one who evolves going forward."

" Well at this point one advantage of having if you want evolved that's so much just biologically and culturally too. Is we should have the ability to look at ourselves into the valuing not just is something. Literally good for us physiologically but it is good -- ethically of the differences society in which we live. And also we we are in a position to provide ourselves with alternatives we can do other things you know even as seemingly trivial as. Slamming the door instead of slamming your -- And also some degree of insight into what's motivating our own behavior I think helps us to have the opportunity to go beyond it."

" Well in -- your article by writing that. Jesus if you just accept him as a simple man with a simple message or if you accept him as in the -- either way. He couldn't have entirely appreciate the magnitude of the demand he was making a con man. To you know to to ask -- to turn the other cheek is very biologically hard for us today."

" It is incredibly difficult and that's what we need to find other things that we can do in addition to turning it -- I think one of them at the very minimum -- to be aware of our own tendency to agree direct aggression and actually -- interest in suggesting that we like on 11 commandment which would be -- of -- law of minimizing pain. Which says there's plenty of -- out there in the world as it is. And it's an ethical way to evaluate what we should do under trying circumstances is -- will our actions increase of Burton. Pain in the world or decrease."

" I thought PRD had that in it was the golden hope that there. Another -- is as we hear your theory plan does not to say that everybody that is redirecting their anger is just a victim -- you know is just 12 it they can help them because it was done to them so they're turning around doing -- someone else doesn't just sort of take the responsibility weighing."

" I think that the really important consideration that they don't have an easy simple straightforward answer I think. We need to go to just because someone is the victimized or does -- mean that they were necessarily victims. And that we should therefore allow them to to do whatever they choose a I think we have to take a good hard look at this this is one of the harder questions we have because everyone experiences pain in -- We will lose friends whose relatives we have to experience aging for instance or disease but should not in itself -- life and strike -- others particularly. And it's and others who have nothing to do with the pain we're feeling. So I think one answer is that we all feel pain but that doesn't justify responding violently aggressively"

" you know I'm thinking -- when I asked well why should anyone not do this because it would appear at least from some of the studies. Then it's the best path to take for survival that you put forth the war in Iraq as an example of re directed. Anger and at least at this time in history at least in recent history that didn't work out that while."

" I know that that's putting it mildly it was in the -- disaster for Iraqis for ourselves I'm."

" Would say but it certainly useful -- The disadvantages of --"

" Doctor there's thank you so much that. I didn't Berisha University of Washington psychology professor and expert on the practice of scapegoating them misplaced aggression you can read his article from the the chronicle of higher education at our website. Here Daschle boy. For the next week on here and now they call themselves health. Advocates their hired by employers that they were for employees helping them navigate the complicated world health insurance. -- health advocates will even calling get that doctor's appointment you can't seem to get him more like them concierge. Benefits people. It's six weeks still ahead the big senate composer conductor Maria Schneider and her orchestra. Her -- in advance for CD's that helps fund recording sessions and tourists. That's after the."

" The Republican presidential race was shaken up that this week but some new poll numbers. Two polls reported that former Arkansas governor and southern Baptist minister Mike huckabee. Isn't a statistical dead heat in Iowa with former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney. Even though huckabee has far less money and fewer campaign workers and Romney does in Iowa. It's a place and erase where every sliver of the -- count and -- sliver in particular. Is being given credit for at least part of -- recent surge small but influential group of several thousand politically active Christian home schoolers. Well with us on the line from doing is attorney -- of man who home schools his kids. And volunteers as legislative liaison for the network of Iowa Christian home educators just welcome. Thank you well you part of that search are you supporting huckabee"

" yes actually eight eight as an individual do support Mike huckabee."

" And I wouldn't it what is it about him that you see in him that you don't scene of the candidates"

" I think first and foremost it's probably his character. Certainly you know life has -- that there at the top."

" He he's pro life. -- I didn't at least favoring outlawing all abortions."

" Yes standing up for the rights to the and more I think these big issue about when life -- thinking he's. You know I also had -- immediately and then and when he was considering running for president. And I really did appreciate his view on education as well he's he's very much in favor of choice in education and so it. If parents choose to home educate such as myself and many others across the state of Iowa. Or if parents want to put their children into the private Christian school or any kept private school and then there's the public school that's out there as well. And silly I think he's balances triggered education."

" How could be supports tax credited programs for Christian schooling you don't see any problem with the separation of state that that's that's in the appeals to you."

" Well certainly has some. Tax credits appealed to me vouchers do not vouchers see there's there's there's an issue with religious based content if you do -- voucher type of but if you get tax credit there is no issue armed with any of those things and so there's certainly more freedom with regard to the apparent ability to do Christian home education under tax credits system that turns."

" And do you think people who home schooled their kids should get a tax credit"

" well right now and no more than 80% of my property taxes. Goes to the the public school system here in in Iowa and the only time I've ever set foot in our public school buildings with before debates that is in the community that would trigger to gambling or to bring in my form to indicate that then go home educate my children."

" But people without kids pay property taxes and support schools."

" You know all my money's going to the school system that we're not utilizing it and and came from my children's college educations. And so I'm I'm pain out --"

" Well how why do you feel Mike huckabee supports you as a home schooler because he sends his kids to public school."

" For a survey as I've heard him say that as several times about is support. Parents being able to choose what they feel it's your best form of education for their children and so you know you may send his children to public school he's certainly. Favor and it would be willing to support any parents that want to -- Christian home educate their children -- to send their children to private school. Or they -- the financial and the public."

" Well you know I asked because Mitt Romney has said that parents who home school their children should get a tax credits and he also favors that. Why would he not the year candidate."

" Well I think it it would go fundamentally to you know who is more of the the Christian. Candidate as opposed his and they around the it would be it was in the Mormon religious faith as opposed to being any evangelical Christian. You know Miranda comes across more as a politician means that this. Putting his finger at an early in the scene where the wind blowing it is to make his decision not on certain items then and I I'd rather have someone who have convictions. And you know it's going to be a leader out there hadn't been somewhat like that"

" is hot give -- the candidate of most of the home -- you know I know you don't and pretend to speak for everyone but how is he reverberating throughout the home schooling community you know."

" You know within my circle of France in the community -- and then a lot of the families are supporting my country. And especially the teenagers and the parents are much more politically active but I think in the general population here."

" Interesting you saying some you know kids who have been home schooled their politically active as well that's having an impact plus there was in the spelling -- but we know we we want to see you you've told us that at least one -- supporting Colorado congressman Tom tancredo who's really making his campaign Margie an anti. Illegal immigration message another family supports Fred Thompson"

" the you know one that forced Fred Townsend. I know it terrible family leaders sporting Ron Paul."

" What do you worry that as Kay Henderson whose whose radio tells us. The fact that home schoolers might be splitting their vote. -- create an opening for Rudy Giuliani who is personally pro life but he supports abortion rights -- these pro gay rights."

" I guess I have not been worried about. You know I think this area in the end as each of these candidates is them coming down closer and closer caucus time the I I think that there. There's there's going to be one candidate or -- that the most that are going to be you know rising up to the top. I don't see where that's going to be an issue."

" Do you feel about leaders of the Christian right. -- indoors Republicans such as Rudy Giuliani pat Robinson endorsing him last week seeming to put aside issues like abortion in favor of security"

" you know I was quite confused the endorsement -- I guess I can't speak for him more or what his thought process clause that it didn't make any sense to me."

" What would happen if your dad my company becomes a vice presidential -- forcing Rudy Giuliani would you be able to vote for that ticket."

" Well I would I would hope that Mike huckabee was not. She used to run as a Vice President -- them someone who that he doesn't line up -- with regard to where is platform is that what you stand for. And so what he's trying to."

" Do you think just -- if my company does and have this upset. Indiana caucuses Mitt Romney spent millions of dollars was so far ahead just a few weeks -- do you think there will be because of Holmes -- like you."

" Why I think home schoolers like domestic Hispanic candidate that we can believe in and that we think stands for the values that we hold. I think that we certainly do you have a substantial impact it. And be able to help him telephone calls and knocking on doors and and even you know helping organize. County by county the -- family succumb to the caucuses and and that the vote ten and support that can't."

" Attorney just her -- home schools his kids and volunteers as a legislative liaison for the network of Iowa Christian home educators or niche. Justin thanks for speaking of us yeah and here's a quick heads of prints and stories will be following next week we'll look at that contentious alcoholic concoction -- then in the US since 1912. But it's now approved for sale once again. Also one woman's. Trials to prove she was a descendant of the -- Pilgrims next week. They listen to him now yeah."

" When I -- big band do you think duke Ellington or. Billie holiday with a guy -- in her hair. Well the great big bands faded after World War II and small jazz combos became all the rage and the cost of travel glued to high. That's one reason why the Marie Snyder orchestra. -- Celanese."

" Maria Snyder is one of the few women at the helm in a male dominated field she conducts her 18 piece orchestra through the pieces she's written. But she also finances the whole project to commissions and her fan -- her new CD is sky blew released into the title track. And Maria Schneider joins us in student who were welcome. Thank you look -- actions but so are you -- sprinkled in the country and he took me June this week's town."

" How pretty do you know it didn't really occurred to me that this is something I wanted to do it just kind of happened to me day by day. I was in college and my music was being so influenced by jazz I was at at classical composition major I was listening to jazz all the time and my teacher said you know you should just go -- listen to the big band. And maybe you should write for them because you're so influenced by jazz and lo and behold I've been doing this ever since for 20 some years now what it's interesting because he read that you didn't even really know the -- went -- in 19 through his internal you grow older you -- because in -- we didn't have a record store they sold records in the clothing store. My mother had a couple of in a Teddy Wilson and Ellington and I didn't know about modern -- to -- college."

" That's wind in Minnesota where you grew up -- to -- another song from -- CD sky blue this is truly in disguise -- Bird calls and wordless vocal and you an apology 11 Cornell University is also credited to this you bring your -- of bird."

" Yeah I just went out as a child I was really into birds and then. I got into school and things and I I didn't go burning anymore because I just. I wasn't really in an environment for him I honestly didn't think New York City was either MM mother kept telling me about Central Park that schools to do. Amazing -- Well one day I was walking to the -- in early may. And in that walk across the park to my home. I saw several species I've never seen in my life. So I could barely breathe by the time I got home I ran my and I use my bird or. Ran back to the car and I ended up seeing a bird it's really rare -- so early in warbler. And it just hooked me is that what we're hearing in the pieces well what I wanted to do was. Get the feeling because when Michael in the park and I look at those birds all of -- on the -- and you know some of these birds come from Central America some even from South America. And I imagine the journey of these birds and I wanted to create a piece or not even wanted to create peace this peace came out of me sort of that was a mentioning the birds starting out in sort of an imaginary forest and in Brazil so -- you hear the forests and opening up like at the dawn of the day."

" And then. You know I. I try to get into the feeling of the instinct of the birds to collect and flock and migrate as -- physiology is changing and getting ready to -- So this. The dynamic has -- so that's sort of conjuring up you know -- sexuality or something and and then we find ourselves in the sky in the 91 little warbler. Flying by the moonlight with thousands of butlers and the little wings fluttering next -- and just -- What is this little -- thinking you know flying. A couple of thousand kilometers without stopping. Then we kind of cascade into the park and then. It's kind of my -- where I meet these birds and and then the piece just opens up and exuberance. It's money. My joy at her name."

" Could you do that with a five piece rookies. I don't think so. I've I've been fascinated with orchestration ever since I was a kid and I tend to like to do things big. And grand and just kind of a bit of a drama queen against the -- aren't so. Thinks."

" We're back with composer conductor Maria Schneider of the Maria Schneider orchestra. Her big band sounds a bit of a rarity in these cash strapped -- Her newest CD is sky blue ocean in the your sister are touring in Boston this weekend. Maria the opening song on the CD the pretty root and stand that it was inspired -- drive union and we used to taking your small hometown when to Minnesota."

" Well I sat down to write this -- all of a sudden I remembered being in my dad's decently and with my two sisters in the backseat. And the drive home in this little restaurant that was outside a town called the driftwood steak house it was the only restaurant -- Windham. And if we took a special kind of roundabout road that took us through town to get to our house instead of the usual way. We come over a hill and from that Halen nine you can see all the lights and sparkling lights on -- the prairie towns that but I say hill and the end it until it generous it."

" I look at it and I'm like man is -- hill and I would look over that. In view of window and we -- just dealing nine look at wind of this thing wow and so I tried to in this piece -- anticipation of getting to that place but then also -- yet. To that you wind up. I wanted to go back indignantly. I'm imagining looking in the windows of all these different."

" People that sort of make up the foundation in my life to girl's mother used to Holler and scream whole. And the united. My motherhood Elvis into the metal wire winners yard in the metal mixing and the neighbor lady that sent my mom was going to destroy his sex life. Or it be in -- days. My sister and I singing you know Henry the eighth I am I am and it just ridiculous things and so does this kind of -- section in the middle has all these elements that child."

" Do you."

" You know this is after lance who's -- that dark room eating you know fruit into. Possibly drug addiction and a pink other things and don't write me your jazz musician I know -- you know that's. It's and say that there this senseless that -- to -- you know when I first started writing for the band my music was much more intense much darker. There were a lot of things minor fridge and and then one day you know -- went to Brazil. Did -- have an everything changed I knew at one point I was looking for beauty in my music and looking for joy. In my music that I realize now that it happened when it went to Brazil in Brazil I got the feeling that. They make music for survival that music. In -- Brazil music is sustenance. It's not a condom you know sometimes I think in this country you know we take. Music lessons are we go to a concert in Brazil and everybody's making music people sit around Britain or in Spain of flamenco culture mean that. Music that is necessary."

" For survival let's listen to a little bit of irony stain -- I noticed they -- in London which has some of that influences into."

" Three Schneider. You feverishly worked for a time as an assistant city 11 to China to as a conductor composer player. And creating arrangements for the food assistance since being prudent sense. But who -- your models for conducting it or maybe he was -- well -- was probably. One of my biggest influences elevenths Bob broke my hair. Well a lot of people though it's just that my music has gone through a lot of shifts over the years was there -- it it physically. Might have been year role model for conducting because. You known for what happens when you conduct of the UU would you can't"

" it ain't pretty telling him -- and conducting as far as that goes yeah my role model would be the probably nobody what happened is when I first started rehearsing my music I would just find my body moving. Sometimes because what I was listening to wasn't what I want it's does sort of involuntary spasms her her you know her movements of smoothness or. Punctuation would just come out of me to try to show them what I wanted -- more classical conducting style then -- conducting Stan yeah but it's also I think it's almost more like dancing. In that sometimes when the music is coming -- just like I want. I'm just sort of moving in as sort of maybe three -- way and then when I'm not hearing everything that I want I tried to without breaking the flow of that. Gently show them what I am looking for. In my band I'm trying to be. The focal point that everybody looks that visually it's like almost like in meditation if you would look at us. And everybody in the room this kind of meditating maybe one spot and then that collectively bring everybody -- zone. And sort of trying to be the person brings everybody into the same zone."

" It would seem impossible to tour. With the big band sound. Without the Senate that you've got it says I'm just going to mention artists share. This is a label in the business model that allow this year fans to eat them by CDs in advance before they've made it which is their investment or. -- investing turns 50 dollars ahead of the release they become really the shareholders in your city."

" The wave we like to describe it is that the fans are funding the record. And they become participants what we do is document a whole process of making the record. And we offered different levels of things to people depending on what level -- in -- day weekend. Their name on the record credited as executive producer and Batman gets to comes recording session. It made the making of the record almost. It into my life. Performances but when you sit and in concert hall playing C office faces in the band's music playing these people are getting a reaction. That's what I felt like making its expected. People had already come forth with their money their belief that confidence in me -- mania homes feel like I had people or. So I think it's really good for the music and it's certainly. Is finding things at this point there's no way I could expect. Without that."

" That's Marie -- he's talking about in recent -- orchestra their new CD is sky blue is also currently in essence of the Berkeley college of music. -- for more on the CD -- And how you consider CD's --"

" You can listen to here and now live each weekday at noon eastern time by going to WBUR dot org. And clicking on the listen live button. You can also find is each weekday at noon eastern on XM radio channel 133."

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