Title: Fighting The Foreclosure Epidemic

" Market breadth of 322. Time. Start with the under 40000 dollars and your work fortified."

" Real estate auctions like this one have become common events in Massachusetts over the last year. Dozens of foreclosed homes went on the auction block just last Sunday in Burlington. Today we're taking a closer look at the home foreclosure crisis in Massachusetts."

" If his radio Boston I'm Jane Clayson. Thousands of families have already lost their homes can anything be done to stop more foreclosures. What is the ripple effect across Massachusetts. Join our conversation at 181438255. 18143. Or online at radio Boston dot toward. In a minute will be joined by economist -- case to talk about what led to the crisis here. But first radio Boston's advocacy and visited a man who's losing his battle with the banks."

" Picture foreclosed house. What does it look like is a rundown. Windows boarded dead grass a bank auction sullen swinging in the wind. Tom Quinn's house on summit street in Hyde Park does not look like that. The -- looks great to climb well maintained stoop up to the warmth -- Tom and his yuppie stocks -- My name's Tom -- and and our four. Pumps service company and challenge that we sell and service pumping equipment. Brawny in the blue companies sweatshirt with salt and pepper hair and alliances that his dogs. Tom looks uncomfortably vulnerable then snapped as he tells the story like he's losing his home. My wife was. Diagnosed with the cancer and 2003. And she was nerve -- car payments which components. To roll her car payment -- how Sloan. And shouldn't she was terminal. A glossy mailing landed on the -- kitchen table refinance now with an adjustable rate mortgage honestly yeah. It's kind of focused on my wife who she was -- she was so thrilled to be doing something -- It was a really think I am. Involved alone. Told figured the new loan would. -- some extra cash in the short run and he'd have options to refinance should be unthinkable happen. Then it did his wife died in 2004. Without the income from her disability checks Tom started to have trouble keeping his mortgage current so he went back to the bank can you. You know get this change to a thirty year fixed and the best of my single income this. So why does nothing we can do for."

" Nevertheless Tom managed to keep his head above water for two more years his two teenage daughters never knew just how tight things work. Then his rate reset as flawed -- no one might do. Tom was straight up with the bank he said he probably wouldn't be able to make the payments but they declined to restructure I wasn't the squeaky wheel and I after the shot me down the first time in. You've gone back banking on welcome for a handout just hand so so -- Goldman through the court proceedings. I'm expecting. My final eviction notice. -- a great example of somebody who got foreclosed but as the income. To afford to his home today at a fixed rate mortgage at the current appraised value. Steve Meachem is a community organizer with a group called city life leader -- in Jamaica Plain. He's been helping -- appeal for help from Wells Fargo Mayor Menino legislators anyone with an address."

" There are many owners who got for clothes they couldn't afford the arm mortgage at the bubble value. But they could afford the real who had fixed rate. So why not sell it back -- Our demand is let people pay rent or sell the building back -- them appraised value Portland on --"

" This year's city life the stage thirteen blockade like this morning foreclosed homes around Boston. Volunteers and literally stand in the doorway to keep constable from forcibly evicting the losing side. And number activists had been arrested doing this since January the government charges and stuff. City life has had a 50% success rate in stopping foreclosures to blockades over the same period. Right now the group is poised to do the same thing in Hyde Park if and when Tom Quinn receives a 48 hour notice to vacate."

" Well put out a press release put out our call over the Internet and our email alert we'll start calling people who produce a crowd in front of his house that morning. Honestly I don't know what will be here who know -- people kidding you home to make statements. Tom Quinn could be long gone by then with the welfare of its two girls to think about he's just secured and apartment with the landlord that's agreed to look past his credit. Still he hasn't packed a single bag. He can't bear the thought of sifting through his wife's things. You don't seem angry are you entering."

" Well I'm angry at myself I put myself. I signed the documents but. I loved hit had to have that might confront the Wells Fargo and just say no what we've done everything we can forum the end. I'm still waiting for that statement."

" Wells Fargo has not responded to requests for comment. For the time being Tom Quinn is taking solace in his involvement with city life. Where dozens of people like him meet every Tuesday to strategize and to empathize. They share their stories and sing songs that connect the foreclosure crisis to the struggles of the civil rights movement --"

" He."

" Yeah. We'll. A little. We'll."

" immigrants yeah. -- learn more about Tom Quinn and his battle with the bank visit our website at radio Boston dot org to see his story in words and pictures. Joining us now from Wellesley college's professor of economics -- case professor cases one of the developers of the case Shiller index a tool that measures the value. Of the residential real estate market in the United States I cystic if you -- purpose. Good to be here with you with me in the studio is released cherry CEO of Boston community capital and president of the Boston community venture fund. Boston community capital invest in affordable housing works to create financial tools that connect to low income citizens to the mainstream. Market. Welcome to -- Boston. Thanks very much professor case let me begin with few of the mortgage crisis has been a devastating problem obviously around the country help us understand how big of a problem it is becoming."

" Here. It's a big problem everywhere and then we -- inflated the stock of housing news value went way yeah. We have we wrote a tremendous amount of mortgage paper against that increasing value. And ended today it was issues he was supposed to be profitable. I'm if you look at the industry for the of the of the thirty years before that it always had house housing prices rising and with housing prices rising. Now when you have an adjustable raider. Some heavy it was refinance because the value of the collateral was there. In 2005 September Boston prices started to fall that was the beginning of the downturn that has last day. Percent and has been very anti. And it's resulted in the foreclosures. Literally millions of mortgages and it's it's -- it's created -- and financial markets across the world. It hadn't have enormous have -- follow the national trend here or is the New England to mortgage crisis unique in anyway. That's actually not as bad as it is interested countries if you if you look at Florida. And you look at Arizona and California and Nevada. I think for a massive. Very large percentage of these California alone accounts for about. Something like half of the of the auctions that are taking place so. And Massachusetts's. It's about the same percentages a country that is the auctions as a percentage of existing home sales is about 20%. But. The overall size of the effect. The decline in value in Indian country as a whole. Prices are down about 20%. On average seen -- in some parts of the country prices are down 353637%. If you look at. Particularly Florida Arizona cal and California and they're down substantially -- on ten point 8%. So do the losses are more confined we're we're better shape -- the country believing enough."

" Pick up on Natalie -- from your perspective what this what's the difference between what's happening here in Boston as opposed to what's going on another major markets across country. I think one of the significant differences is the what's happening here is very much focused on inner city in lower income neighborhoods. And in particular those neighborhoods tend to have almost a complete overlap also with communities of color. So if you look at for example. -- pan or north Dorchester Roxbury. He sees great concentration on only foreclosures. But a real drop in the actual values set my own senses that the ten point 8% that chip mentions. Is certainly accurate numbers as a regional matter but I think it masks the problems in the neighborhood particularly in the inner city neighborhoods."

" We just heard a couple of minutes ago Tom -- story of the devastation going through the foreclosure process I'm just curious why. Banks are not working with homeowners. More I mean maybe someone can afford an adjustable rate mortgages -- valley -- but they can't afford that the current value with fixed rate and why. Not sell these homes back to homeowners it appraised value isn't that better for everyone on the Easter well."

" That's a very complex question let me see if I can tease it apart here. The first piece of the problem I think is that the average mortgage size that again particularly people in inner city areas are carrying around is roughly double what it is they can actually afford. Traditionally Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac underwrote mortgages and they would look at something around 3035%. Of income to be going toward a mortgage. When we actually looked at what mortgage levels were wrapped in Boston areas -- down -- New Bedford and Fall River. But we discovered is that in Boston for example a particular neighborhood people were carrying an average 323000. Dollar mortgage. When in fact that they did what they could afford depending on interest rates was really about 15155. So what that kind of pricing it's very difficult to simply say will adjust and an interest rate or will extend the term of abortion would lower your payments. Which -- really talking about is a substantial reduction in principal."

" Professor cases and it better to work with these homeowners -- the almond and have boarded up homes and neighborhoods that -- recognized him gently. Oh absolutely. The worst disasters house becomes vacant. And truck pulls up to two days later in the copper being stripped house that are neighborhood effects. It's it's Susan extra loss when a foreclosure actually takes place and I agree with the release its. In a lot of cases it's not a matter whether whether it is re -- alone that the property was very expensive one was purchased. Relative to implement a buyer. A lot of these things can't get fixed really easily but it is puzzling to me. Why there aren't more. Deals and sent in this case. In point -- Why the banks can't figure out again a substantial portion of that cash flow back. That is simply batters and then. Somebody treatment payment is for them. Generates a neighborhood effect I think there should be more puzzled. About why there's not more."

" Relationship chip makes a very good point we actually have been working very closely with -- to attempt to get them to rewrite these mortgages or to sell belongs to us or even to sell the properties to us. So that we can then maintain homeowners in their home. And it really has been a stunning process it's very difficult to figure out who you're supposed to talk to. After you talked to them for some period of time the phone no longer works in your office somewhere else you might start an office in -- open office in another city. There are a second mortgage Yzerman who ordinarily in foreclosure process. Would would simply be foreclosed out but instead because into the foreclosure process is expensive. They're really trying to get some return on their investment the idea actually that a homeowners going to be able to manage all that when they may be managing a couple of jobs and a couple of kids. And to my mind just doesn't make any sense of I have the same -- we have bankers and lawyers working on it and does an extremely difficult process complicated and complicated let me bring a listener into our conversation at this point Joseph is on the line from my Gloucester Joseph welcome to program."

" It's a pleasure to be here I wish it was a moral right choice."

" Yes don't we all thank you. Tell us what's on your mind."

" Well -- a mortgage broker -- in new England and in Florida for twenty years. And you're only mortgage work I have been doing in the state of law murder in the lost. Eight months. Is with a project called hope. And it's set up by our state rapids down there were Korea's -- to try to help people avoid foreclosure."

" And how much success are you having Joseph."

" I AM trying to. Deal with the loss mitigation department circles. Homeowners. Well we still there."

" Yes go ahead. So not having much success why do you think."

" Well so one thing is that the concern not really willing to help right now. So many things are influx that they don't know why oh what tactical assistance the federal government is going to. Bring to bear. And the loss mitigation department of many of the big lenders hiring India or the Philippines. And so I spend. Hours on the fly home. Talking to people who have no understanding about what the situation is here. In Florida -- in Massachusetts."

" Just thanks so much I appreciate your call in this project hope that you mentioned professorship cased as just a story ring treating -- as a sound like -- something that your -- around the country. Yes is first of all the banks are in trouble and they lost a lot of assets has lost a lot of their values of capitalism being squeezed. And when you come to agreement you have to rent alone I think there's a lot of reluctance to go and write anything. Down in the current environment even if it's in your interest to do it. It seems very strange also the complexity of who owns what and who has the right to sign only you know off. And if you if you get an agreement between a cellar and somebody who may be dying in -- in -- in and its sale you have to get the banker that whoever owns the paper to sign the lead taken off the property. And oftentimes you can't really find them the typical loan is now sold through the wall Streeter was few months ago. The Wall Street would put it in and put mortgage backed securities out on pools of these mortgages. And then they'd be insured and some part but I mortgage insurance or that'd be. -- credit default swap issued against them and the layers of risk and the layers of in a way ownership of the problem. Is very complex. So it's not a simple it's not a simple way to do this on the pass but that's what it's gonna take if we're going to fix this problem."

" You've studied real estate markets professor case in home prices for 25 years. -- of the preeminent expert on this where where are we going here who queries the bottom nationally and and really more specifically here in Boston and New England."

" Where -- a lot of dimensions to that question of the sketch a couple of important one obvious it is. Questions have -- how long is this recession because we're just now getting hit with a real he can't economic impact of these. Of -- of the problems and financial markets so the recession. Will be terminal -- House prices. This isn't an idea that when there's a bubble are winners and expansion and prices as it it it falls down the fundamentals. Fundamentals. Don't mean much housing market because the price has depends on what someone's willing to pay for the location. And so the demand is there. To to stabilize house prices fairly soon actually but there's a lot of fear in the land people worried about. About what's going to happen and they that are unlikely that environment and make big commitments even if they could get alone. That means demand is not likely to be coming back at times until where's the bottom. Well I mean I somewhere. Somewhere. Some -- of the new president takes office. And certainly some people I think we actually see some signs believe that are despite the problems in Massachusetts. We see some signs here that there's a recovery going some parts of the market but it is -- earlier you look at these this average decline look at the the end this 10% it's about uniform if you arts and -- mr. Down to -- and some some places for a -- price declines that are very very substantial they're going to have to go down further. Before this excess inventories picked up but in the rest of the market have resistance sellers who were holding price up. That can go on for a long time at some of those make this better neighbors."

" Professor K -- you have to get back to busy teaching -- today thank you for your time thanks for being with us it's a pleasure. Professor -- case teaches economics at Wellesley College police Jerry stick with us we'll stick with you more than excitement coming up we'll hear firsthand the impact them for closures can have on entire neighborhoods. We'll talk about what local governments are doing to help struggling homeowners keep their properties. Listeners how has the foreclosure crisis affected EU and York community. We'd love to hear your story 18143825. Times that's 1843. -- I'm Jane Clayson this is radio Boston more to come will be right back."

" My name is England and this has spread it on them that. I didn't realize my landlord had already moved up if there is no. And Sunday the -- from city -- came to my house. To let me know that. Those houses of a full closure I have no idea. I don't know what I'm gonna do."

" New news radio Boston I'm Jane Clayson. The home foreclosure crisis in Massachusetts has hit some neighborhoods harder than others. Dorchester -- pan -- and Lawrence are just some of the lower income places hit particularly hard. One neighborhood -- street in the meeting house hill neighborhood of Dorchester. Has been called the epicenter of the Boston foreclosure crisis and the city has actually stepped in their -- trying to help. WBUR's frantic car has been talking with Hendry street residents for the last couple of months and she joins me now friendly welcome thank you what you see in the industry neighborhood. Well Mikey -- this -- really."

" Hard hit neighborhood between fifteen and eighteen properties in the direct vicinity of Henry street are actually in for closure. And that amounts to about three quarters of houses on the street which is only about half mile long by the way. So the vast majority of the travel backers as recently as this week are boarded up and abandoned. One man's house was seized by the bank more than a year ago but instead of relocating going to shelter. He's actually living in the house in a trash strewn yard under blue tarps and dirty sheets and I understand there's some movements. For people like that to try to turn things around in this neighborhood tells them together and actually had a whole city effort which he can talk about a minute but. Even before that there are people trying to make a difference individual people. Luis Rodriguez for example who slipped in Dorchester for thirty years. He bought a house in April and he's worked everyday tirelessly around the clock to how to fix it so -- what's the city doing to help. Well hey is -- on the city's radar for a long time mostly because of the amount of prime in the area. But in February the Boston Herald ran a story about the rash of foreclosures on the street so from Mary rose to the top of -- list of priorities. The city formally established the country street projects. They fanned out they scrubbed graffiti from the sides of houses they towed abandoned cars -- moved heaps of trash from alleyways and planted trees. And then they took a totally unprecedented step and actually bought four contiguous tripled backers on the street. The city sold the properties Roxbury based developer built right who is going to restore the properties now. Curious why this neighborhood has been particularly hard the consensus is that -- is sort of a crossroads area. And for a long time it was a really claimed. One thing the city thinks may have contributed. Is that it's mostly renters area so maybe -- people they're living their don't actually own homes. The thought is that there less connected and maybe have less incentive to keep the neighborhood up I mean that's just that theory but the city takes it pretty seriously and is really working switch it to an owner occupancy model. So with most of the houses having three units the ideas -- owner will live in one unit and will ran out the other jail. And Luis Rodriguez really believes in the Moscow."

" If you only Howell but you dividend I mean most likely -- to Q now also booed -- now basically doesn't always shooting for being like your home owners. I don't really. You -- repressive government protect this house and and it's an old people if you could do with I think they would be changed for the bit of media. Beautifully with the should be."

" On the other hand critics say the neighborhood needs a lot more than a few coats of paint. And some hopeful sharp very this neighborhood spend bladed place. For a long time to -- viewers frantic caller thanks for joining us from an amber in the storage retention in Q. -- is working on a story in the industry project which will be heard -- the -- morning edition in the coming weeks. Joining me now to speak about the effects of the foreclosure crisis -- Friedman. Chief of housing and director of the department of neighborhood development for the city of Boston will continue -- Here in the studio Preval -- Barney director of community affairs for the Federal Reserve of Boston nice to have you top thank you need to be here and at least -- CEO of Boston community capital completes our roundtable welcome to. Thanks. Let me start with few Evelyn we've heard about the crisis on Henry street from her frantic car at a Dorchester. In September the city received more than four million dollars in federal funds as part of an economic and housing recovery act. What does that city hope to achieve by purchasing rehabbing his foreclosed properties."

" Well we have received up to four point two million dollar ship or receive it at the beginning of the year that we've been awarded it by the federal government. And the State's been awarded 43 million dollars to work and the balance of the state American spirituality cities that kind of and read the same resources. And what we hope to do is to them to look at the -- street type area and work with nonprofits and for profit to develop the properties that are in negotiators have been foreclosed. And return them as much as we can't homeownership and when we cannot to have them in the hands of responsible. Owners -- rent them and managed improperly."

" At least -- how do you fit into this picture -- nonprofits such as you're organization Boston community capital what are you doing to help people face for closure. Well we are working closely with the city and with the come with the best -- in with -- organizations like city life we've also. To go on December an acquisition vehicles and I don't actually acquired. Vacant properties in particular in order to we have -- the maintain them is affordable over time. We're also working with homeowners attempting to help them. Negotiate out there loans -- that are in -- the foreclosure process with their lenders have that in fact the homeowner can stay in the home. And an appropriate price to part of what we're looking to do -- you created an affordable first mortgage and then % second mortgage and shared appreciation. At the end it ultimately the sale of the property and the goal here really has to be stabilization neighborhoods which means keeping people in as much as possible Preval what's the Federal Reserve role in office."

" There's a number of of areas in which had defense -- literal. And at the system level there's been some regulatory changes and change some of the rules to -- some of the most aggressive practices."

" And that's sort of looking ahead."

" On the net effect of that reduction in here in the federal funds -- in interest rates. Has meant the -- the resets that homeowners are facing are not as severe as they otherwise would have been. Here in Boston are Boston Fed president Eric rose and -- really push to try to make a difference in this area."

" One of the ways in which redundancies through research and data. I research economists have put out."

" On some key papers eliminating the role of house prices and foreclosures we've also been helping state agencies and community groups sort of target. -- would delinquencies RC were foreclosure hotspots are. On."

" More concretely. This last August we held an event. Trying to aim sort of had this problem of of borrowers contact and serve answers -- tell us about what happened."

" One of the the issues is -- both bar was gained through this sort of you know phone tree calling -- when they try to get on help from their lender. I'm in the opposite some service errors lenders have been sending letters to attempted to people talking about. You know being laid on their mortgages and and people sort of haven't responded this has been that this has been a problem. One of the things that we were able to do come partnering with and New England Patriots and Kraft family. And with two -- organizations hope now and and with neighbor works. We held an event at Gillette Stadium is actually the clubhouse the stadium."

" I'm where we indicted borrowers to meet with their lenders meet with their mortgage service face to face probably for the first time and yes in in many cases and in fact. The borrowers to who showed up some of them actually didn't believe. That there are actually going to meet with someone. Someone there and so -- once -- who actually need to pull the curtain aside and hand and showed them I think that yes indeed they were there we had."

" When he service -- there."

" We had an idea to have them meet with the borrower and see if the concessionary modifications and and how many times once -- possible. Will we had a total of actually 1800 borrowers show this was at that -- largest event of its kind in the country."

" And so it really was different in terms of scale. We don't follow up phone Saturday with about 400 borrowers. About 13 have received concessions from their lenders usually reduction in interest rates sometimes temporary sometimes permanent."

" On another 16% have yet to hear and slightly more than half have not received -- sounds like a success in many."

" We're yes we're we're actually I'm planning and looking to do more of of these types of events."

" Spring another caller into this conversation. Rosa is in Brockton this point -- welcome three of Austin."

" Thank you so much on I don't -- and I felt a look at -- Gillette Stadium function because I want it to America and speak at the expert in the first time on I I get to see it you know guilty because I've been value. My property and I don't considerably. And then all the black house that we have a proper in. It's it's it's really that -- situation that something could be done a couple of these people who are properties at the right now."

" Reza thanks so much for the call -- Friedman what happens. When a homeowner receives a notice to vacate their property and you can they turn to the city of Boston -- what's the first step in that case."

" Well since come to 2006 this city has been working on foreclosure prevention programs. Both are ourselves and with partners -- in the community and leave. Staved off 441. For closures in the city of Boston. And so weak and first encourage every one who. Has. -- who potentially has the foreclosure appendix to call either us or call one of their neighborhood. Organizations to talk with them about what they can do. And then when we try to do is do read you know -- to provide for restructures. And work with service or shouldn't and lenders. And Mayor Menino actually hosted a prevention workshops. Like the one that come about described him prior true to the one of the Fed did. And we did I didn't Roxbury and we had to a number of so many people coming to that. I'm workshops. But we have the same result it was about 13 of the folks who actually met with. Our -- lenders were able to restructure compare loans."

" At least series -- about help bringing people together an inner facing where have they might not otherwise -- we can solve very complex problems a little easier we'll."

" Interfacing is is certainly always a good first step I think part of the challenges. If people are not too far off in terms of what they can actually afford to pay in -- restructuring and interest rate or an extension of the term we'll get them there. Then I think it's a very effective process part of the concern however is what happens to the remaining two thirds of folks who really are not in that process of people have. Mortgages that are substantially above their ability to detain really -- substantially above the value of their homes. Then I think it's very difficult I think services also have a limitation in terms of what they're authorized to do -- wind up with. Folks at a fair -- not necessarily authorized to do they really significant cutting the needs to happen and and it's very difficult for people who are that deeper into the problem. Here's another --"

" Her from North Attleboro Nancy is on the line now Nancy welcome -- a Boston."

" I think you. I'm kind because my situation I have been unemployed and smarts had been able to find part time work within in. And it's large and in April. I kept part -- it it ended in October. And I've been to open -- and unemployment is part time now I'm Erica the extension is that the extension. And I have another part of I've not been able to find full -- work I -- up -- my mortgage I am a -- I think amount to ten years. And I'd been struggling Edinburgh the payment mortgage I'd try to contact -- people read time. And I've talked to them each time becoming came up the -- what -- not behind Daniel mortgage. He shouldn't worry about anything but -- like -- next month yeah everybody county go to for a cause you're going to put closure. Economic I can deck of this carrier have been money well behind me an island -- for. Some help to get economic -- Political and they have been employed and."

" She's trying to -- and I hear what you're saying Nancy and I wish you all the best in this very difficult circumstance Preval what do you table. Someone like Nancy who's trying she's making an effort."

" Well I think god that's a very tough situation and I am really am impressed the effort that she's making. I think the first -- so again this is to talk to a housing counselor. On there isn't an 800 number 180995. Hope which is the hope now number."

" It connects he had housing counselor and they're really the best people qualified to help people through. On there are options."

" She brings up this issue of people who are. She sort of current I'm ranked she thinks she's going to have an issue that's an issue we've we've heard a lot about."

" You know a lot of case is services and lenders aren't will lean -- to make concessions until the percent on his delinquent. But of course -- none of us who want to advice and wanted to go delinquent on their mortgage it triggers credit report and and an offense and it puts someone and at risk. Has a difficult situation. Let's did there have been people been able to be helped through this and I think going to housing counselors the whispers to them. Here's another call now from Andy who is in Boston Andy welcome to the program."

" Yes that's our Q I. I have I so -- mortgages. Arms. Problem might seem like -- are never had bench in case. -- would change I'm sometimes that the very day -- you aren't quick take out about now. -- years unquote -- under Harry Byrd. Even -- sent out its payments or previous aren't Capello cop and -- if you beat up double payments on top. To wait for the other Chester com Barack. Which are you already late payments won't fell on -- Huge -- very tight fighting Egypt where he got checked vehicle parked expenditure that you aren't -- never had not mentioned it pretty neat. Yes it's structured and problems with supplying you know Andy."

" So much. Preval who what about that these sub prime mortgages are being sold to different banks every thirty pacing -- or more often. But I think the larger on the issue here is that this a lot of the service here's we're not set up. To do the kinds of of modifications. And considerations in the directions and -- a lot of them really aware and in a rising market they're pretty much structured to take in. Checks process those checks and and and in a few cases decent Sunday collections. -- but the idea of sort of considered in borrowers trying to to look at their income if there's been a change income and trying to rework the terms of -- takes a different skills that and a lot of them have now started to hire for that that they did just haven't had a staff until this has made the problem quite frustrating."

" Evelyn Freeman let me ask you could take a turn here and ask you about rental properties and what type of rental markets are available. Out there in Boston and beyond to those who are facing foreclosure because I know renters are receiving eviction notice is still in in large measure."

" Yes unfortunately. In north -- northeast -- this problem is much bigger than in on the west where there aren't as many multifamily small multifamily properties. So banks are. And lenders are depicting both a little homeowner. And at the tenants and so that's created. A lot more come over ice in rental prices and it's created. We believe some more homelessness there's people cannot trying to rental property. To live there anymore so that's it's kind of a dual problem it's not so Lido homeowner it's also. What's happening to tenants in the multifamily that that is to increase family building."

" At least -- one of our producers has been interviewing renters who didn't even know -- their building was being foreclosed on until they received eviction. Notices are used in situations where the rights of renters. Are being violated."

" Well we're certainly seeing circumstances in which tenants are being thrown out of their homes. The question about what rights they have as an interest and I think right now there has been a shift in the line here in Massachusetts of that. If you are attendant with the benefit of section eight you can't be evicted. But actually tenants Hendrick leases simply turn to tenants willing can be eviction thirty days notice. The more difficult issue is that -- a service or will often show up with a dollars for keys approach and handover offered 200 or 500 dollars of the tenant will. Provide the keys and believe in. You know for people who are having difficulty meeting their bills sometimes that seems like a pretty good deal but of course in very short order. They find themselves on their homeless are really having difficulty finding another apartment so. I do think that the problem of of tenants were perfectly blameless in this process but nonetheless losing their homes and."

" losing their housing and for contributing to neighboring destabilization is very significant and how tough -- it up -- for renters who get evicted from foreclosed buildings and rents are as high as it ever been despite the slumping housing markets."

" Rents are going up because more people looking for rentals since fewer people can actually afford homes so. And you know subsidy is always a challenge because those that those dollars are always always -- so I do think it's a very significant challenge."

" The back to the phones now Heidi is in hopes still Massachusetts high time welcome to -- Boston thanks for calling."

" They keep -- particular call certain have a couple. A couple of car to go get somebody who -- about situation where she Q what part are it but it either -- comic. And I want to -- not as we shakedown attempt at people who carry significant negative equity right now. In other words I forget what can keep up with my mortgage payments but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of it don't. Did you to a certain extent. Then what you're reached intolerable what you were to get by without immediate harder to get rental property they like that but I just wonder if you could characterize the art market. It has this bubble out there of people who are so underwater that it may actually be just -- the figure it out here and keep it along. And walk away it is not going to create another ripple effect."

" Kind thanks it's a great point thanks for bringing it up Preval took regarding."

" Let's in the very sick just kind of had looked into this and negative equity is not Dahmer being underwater right with alone and I was worth more than than house."

" It's it it has happened before it's happened before here in Boston and New England. I'm end there's not a lot of evidence to show that people in that situation did do it walk away for this reason."

" Com and I think it's a number of reasons for that people do you know have a desire to want to stay in the neighborhood in which they live and in home as you know is more than just an investment. -- I think that."

" You know the idea that if you continue to make your payments that house prices eventually recover that's along as he have no change your life circumstance you don't become divorced have. Have you know lose your job or or other cases I think there isn't a lot of evidence to show."

" On at least for people that are moderately under water that that they're going to start walking away at least you're I think that's right I."

" I think that this is not just a present economic difficulties are really generational issue. Folks who go into foreclosure today or have real credit issues it generally takes him about a decade to get back into the housing market. What that means is if in fact the market does come back they have lost a full decade of appreciation in their homes. Money that could have been used to send a child ecology to perhaps help the next generation by their own homes so that I actually think that we will be seen. The impact of this and particularly the impact of for closure not just in this decade the for several decades to come and that's that's quite concerned Evelyn -- what's your take on the."

" Well I agree with the least in terms of people's polluting equity in their property. And and then being underwater and perhaps walking way. And the effect that might have but we haven't really found that to be a problem here in Boston. People who -- able to manage their mortgages have in -- stayed in their houses and state where they'd like to be in their neighborhood. -- head bits the folks speak to the other folks who are are underwater in terms of not being able to pay their mortgages."

" And only about twenty seconds at least -- I just want to finish up with you I was struck by a -- chris' piece by these activists. And their success hand stopping for closure -- I continued to speak to that for a moment and the sort of the human. Elements of."

" Of that part of the story sure I think the human ailment is extremely important we have been working with city life might think they do. The very effective job of making it quite difficult actually to effectuate evictions. If from our perspective the goal really is neighborhood stabilization that means keeping people in their homes and working with lenders to make that happen I think city life and others in their role have a very important role to play."

" Well really interesting panel thank you all very much for your time at least cherries -- CEO of Boston community capital -- thank you very much thanks very mr. Allan Friedman has the department of neighborhood development for the city of Boston Evelyn my thanks to you. And for -- Barney is the director of community affairs for the federal reserve bank of Boston thank you for up -- pleasure -- To learn more about the current foreclosure crisis and to see one man's fight against for closure in words and pictures visit our website at radio Boston dot -- yeah. Coming up -- we'd take a bit of a -- and speak with writer Sarah foul about her new history of the puritans of the Massachusetts bay colony. It's a fascinating work. The -- shipmates. Stay with us I'm Jane Clayson more to come this is ready in my past him. Yeah."

" News -- radio Boston I'm Jane Clayson. Thanksgiving is -- time when Americans look back on our history and remembered the founders of the country. Who left to religious persecution in England succumbed to the new world. He they made friends with the native population and the country thrived. Or at least that's the story we're told in school plays and popular culture. The real story is a little more complicated -- Sarah vowel is a contributing editor for public radio's this American life and the author of the new history of the Boston puritans called. The wording shipmates serve Allen joins me from our studios in New York City welcome Sarah I. Thanks for being with us for -- search generally speaking to say is the modern day. American perception of the puritans."

" I think maybe him. That founders of new -- not a witness. You know -- killed Joyce. And I mean I think of them it's sort of -- Mile at all excite me and dreamy killed Joyce and -- incredibly. Thoughtful and thought provoking and quite literary and intellectual. And -- not about what did. Squabble art here so it can mean there are very dramatic people who are quite brave and relatively hardy and married devoted to. Not only to their god but the colony they were building here."

" We don't make that distinction very often but the puritans are very different groups from. What we think have a Thanksgiving but Thanksgiving pilgrims --"

" And I. Mainly I rent it out. I'm John Winthrop. The first governor of Massachusetts to wrote that beautiful late sermon -- Christian charity where we get the image of New England as a city -- him. What is this speech about it and how was it important in American history in what kind of values. Did Winthrop focus. Well when it's incredibly interesting. Complicated. Figure saying that. That's Terry Manning you know he was not an ordained minister he rates. He was then governor of debate colony. And he wrote and delivered -- her into his fellow colonists so it's kind him from. In no way of fairly high Fullerton packed -- in the and he's telling the people that. This is going to be hard humour going to need each other and -- the sermon is found out. Charity and generosity. And how not just in these things are. Nice thing and good that they are they are biblical commandments. And so on his vision of what they're about to go and -- in and build this in this city hill has been some very. Beautiful. And it little paragraph where he he's telling these people -- last. Delight in each other you must rejoiced together suffered -- their -- together as members. At the same body and it's very beautiful call for community. What kind of leader was. John Winthrop in the new world when threat is he's just so interesting to me because he -- Enola -- Mild mannered person as well as salon in TU you know didn't make waves but it if he did it with his job -- hold this little colony together and he was pretty ruthless in --"

" As you know his speech a model of Christian charity has been used by various American politicians from JFK to Reagan. Summer columnist election cycle Sarah Palin using part of my -- speech in one of her campaign rallies this this -- and the ideas that he. Used. In that speech -- still have relevance in the American political world today."

" When their thing and and you know his fellow. -- thinkers especially -- administered John cotton who would become. -- minister. Boston Church. Are being inventors of what came to become American exceptional system and certainly this ideal product. Again any yen during most recent presidential campaign on both sides and Barack Obama speaks about it quite frankly. Eases the words American exceptional as some. He answered it speaks about it I think in a -- closer to when their then say Sarah Palin did you -- you know she she mentioned it. -- in the Reagan model that America isn't the beacon of hope to the world and that the rest of the world should look up to arrest. And then name -- and less time and misinterpreting it seemed like Quinn Obama would bring an -- he would talk about it more as a kind of responsibility. To you know live up. To work Great -- and down. But no one disagrees especially if they're ready for president that you know America's greatest place on earth and and and that idea that kind of fan. -- self. Reference. I think we inherit -- from the puritans."

" I may spend quite a bit of time traveling to researcher box there and he spent a lot of time at our part of the world with this -- a list of puritan locales -- favorite spots in or around Boston that you discovered upon research."

" Karen parent he I -- and then burying ground in the king's chapel burying ground and varying in downtown Boston that's where. Gunman threat and John cotton are buried in any it's nice little graveyard but I kind of love that context of that worry you know it's it's. This little tiny cemetery in across the street -- on -- Six Peterson in these kind of monstrosity. Like small scale skyscrapers so and like. It's just such a great image of Boston even though -- so much history there at the -- it's not it's not entirely. Nostalgic delay say I think Quentin Tarantino and in fact down and loved that the first deal -- skyscrapers. In Boston -- built on the on the site of Winthrop house so that to me it's the perfect image of how. Boskin as a city just kept going and -- not overly precious. What do you think we can learn from the successes and the failures of the Boston puritans. I mean one thing that I find very admirable. About them. And then it's true. About Boston and the city to this day is. You know they had this to real love them. Learning and books and appreciation. -- and -- learned and and I love of words and you know and their descendants John Adams when he's writing the Massachusetts. Constitution. And include that that wonderful little paragraph about the encouragement of literature and state constitution you know no other state has a passage in in its own constitution about encouraging literature in what reading and learning can -- for a person not just in terms of you know furthering their their livelihood but but really in the eighteen making a lightning and being composed of happiness really and so. I I find that quite and ruble and about that and they colonists and I also I mean. There's just this real sense of will kind of collective well. There's something about that. Community had been resolved that I -- find quite admirable about them and they colonists and it seems like cam. -- in this country as to me no faith ever -- dire situations together some some candidly group backbone like that when when BS. A bad thing."

" It. There now is it contributing editor for public radio's this American life and the author of the new history of the Boston -- it's called. The -- shipments. -- felt thanks so much for your time. With my case. Next week on array of Boston we start up the holiday season with a look at all on many things made right here in Massachusetts. We'll meet -- instrument makers winemakers boat builders right in our own backyard. I can't say that I woke up."

" And said hey I want to become a canoe bill. Here I am almost fifteen years later with whom was he in this new business."

" When there's he and his wife -- canoes in children's fault there's there's just one local product we will focus on. I'm Jane Clayson enjoy the weekend and join us again next week. Or -- you."