Title: Futures of Entertainment 3 - Session 1: Consumption, Value and Worth

" I'm going to begin our panel this panel deals with consumption. Value and worth its intended disorder extend. The conversation -- by just began review laying out some of the kind of court the -- I'll -- Larry that we use throughout the conference. And I want to begin by having each of the panelist. Just briefly introduce themselves and tell us how your what's your relationship is of the core topic. Of the session and then we'll go in were deeply into those questions are conservative here."

" VP of programming in creative at premier retail networks. And my relation to this I think there's a couple things. -- and I met at the five. I was the executive producer in charge and that's. Visualizing the future advertising for the film minority report. Quite awhile ago. Both. Determining. Who and what should be advertised in the future and then actually doing the creative. And placing it into the film. I don't really fascinating project. I've been involved in many multi media and branding projects throughout my career and now from -- retail networks and basically doing exactly what we -- minority report. Putting video everywhere and -- people by targeting advertising directly to them. But it's it's really fascinating it really fun and and it combines creativity with technology so my -- and his creative. But it's very strategic. And it's also. Combined product development in that word constantly developing technologies to. Deliver these messages."

" I -- Neil -- CN an associate professor at the Harvard Business School. I teach a course on strategic marketing and creative industries which is all about media entertainment and sports and if there I'm -- students in the audience as you are let's take it. Even if you're an MIT. And I guess. My Linksys topical I saw iris which is on need an entertainment industries I guess that numerous links. But I think I've been asked most of his -- road article on not. On the long tail and specifically I think quite a long tail might not necessarily be -- the Ceylon -- theory might not necessarily be fully correct. That's I think my name and."

" I agree she dean I'm. VP of product -- visible measures. Visible measures is as a company that measures the consumption. Video content and advertising how audiences really -- video content and really what we're trying to understand. It's it's less about the technology but it's really about us trying to understand what of the dynamics of the medium using our technology to help understand and help. Advertisers really understand how to take advantage of that and how to leverage those dynamics and help. Consumers sort of not you know it by that the type of an advertising there out there and sort of what works what doesn't work. That's a sort of journey that we're on right now a lot of major media companies and advertisers."

" Hi my name's Renee Richards and -- Harvard Business School. My interests around status and brand status authenticity. Right now I'm actually working my dissertation. Which looks at what happens when you have counterfeit versions. Of luxury products to both the users of the counterfeit. What implications are for their relationships with the brand as well as the users of the -- taking and I come out some counter intuitive implications for. -- usage and in a former life I used to work in marketing and advertising at Leo Burnett. And at the time and see."

" Look at itself. My remarks this morning again but some discussion this concept of web two point. Menus many of you touch one another network that your -- I wondered it's -- those terms that is practically every time Austin. And its underlying assumptions is like suggesting that accurate they're related to want to get started sir what what is this what you what's the web two point -- In the year 2000. Mine are 2008. -- I'm from the year 2008 what does it mean and what is underlying all it's about how our audiences are involved in the production artwork. Soon --"

" take -- step about it. Senate it was recently invited us as part of the company I work for it to participate in a think tank about but to Lenovo business opportunities with Harvard Business School. And we actually had trouble defining web 2.0 and what it meant. And how we're gonna apply that to our ideas about business times so I tried to focus on what I'm currently working on which is -- media. And really look at it you know will. What was web one point oh in the context of retell media meaning. That you're pushing the media out there your you know you have a sign or a video screen and it's telling people what to buyers suggesting -- to buy it. Giving them ideas on how to use what they're gonna buy. And if we can incorporate a web 2.0 concept into that and it wouldn't it wouldn't it be that exchange that two way street it would become a two way street where the the shopper at the consumer can actually. Communicate with that message change that message fact that message and then perhaps even share it with other people who are shopping in the stores have for me it. Other -- about creating a community that -- about creating a two way street. -- in being able to touch him all the existing media as well as contribute your own yet."

" So I like. 2.0 means very little at this moment is because it is in. Has been defined in and so many ways I think if you compared to web one point though. What -- we typically -- when when we have new media echoing around. We -- to -- them the way we used traditional media if you look at when television came up. The first few ads on television very much look like print ads and I felt like print ads. Slowed the -- there's one point oh feels like what we knew from traditional media and maybe you web 2.0 is our attempt. -- Internet. In a way that's more our -- to analyze characteristics of the Internet and that might. Two communities and it might entail. More interactivity I think that's what we're still discovering and that's how we can use the power of the."

" Yeah I would agree that it I think it's it's about. Moving from for broadcast model or pushing one message out whether you can see that on your laptop or a television set or whatever the medium is. Two more participatory. Media where you can also bring together other forms of content matches up into 11 hole but it's less about. -- defining what web 2.0 is just I think we can sit here and it's we could have a whole conference is based on that it's about the her. It's about harnessing those dynamics and and what can you do with those concepts of how commute. How can you take those concepts and apply them and really leverage those dynamics and I you know one of the things that we'll probably talk about is that whole concept of of losing control is sort of where the the web one point oh kind of thinking it's about and -- moving to a model of how do you understand the dynamics that are taking place and leverage them. Two to get your message out."

" That's exactly and a thin and and I think the important distinction that I was making and in the group I was working with is that it to me it -- panic into the Internet. It's the concept of what you just that the sharing and interaction. And reusing and matching up Norman others. I would agree and I would."

" Also at that. In -- went one point nine members of the notion of loss of control and -- potentially being a bad thing in this kind of desire to one -- reached the gain that control and I think that from. The last philosophical standpoint the pendulum could be swinging. -- in the other direction where we have a better understanding of consumer empowerment it's not as an -- you have some game where. Brand managers and appetizers lose power in the face of the rights of consumer --"

" So we appreciate it. Your your company's beginning trying to develop some metrics for thinking about how values being created through the circulation. So he's also aware of what -- even. And what what how we think of how you're thinking about that when."

" Sure sure ended you know having been in the analytics business before the web analytics business it's. You know the that the power of of the medium is that you can you can basically measure anything. Right so you can measure anything from how people visited how many times they've visited do they hover over the buttoned you know whatever. And and it's really taking a step back to understand. Couric who you who your audience who's consuming those metrics and for us it's really about. Making does -- so that they are able to be transacted upon so between publishers and advertisers creating net value exchange. That's so that the criteria that we look -- we look at. Defining him metric -- border or understanding it is to find out sort of what's really relevant help there what are the things that. That are that can move the needle so therefore what's actionable. And then it. Understanding how do you -- compare that to what's out there already so. You know if you have a number something like engagement or something like -- whatever the metric is that you you wanna you wanna push out there in -- transact upon. You know what's the compare -- of that because. I think that's one of the concert tickets lost a lot of times is because. You know the Internet. For us and an online video is not used in isolation so. You know an advertiser needs to understand the value of putting something on our online video versus putting those dollars into a billboard on the side of the highway or you know something in the newspaper so we need to think about things that are. That are compare apple crossed medium. And and that. People can actually do something with my understanding you know if it's up or down what number that ends up being."

" You know destructiveness of the --"

" Can you give us. And we get Virginia here's an example squeeze on. Certain that's her. Incites people so we really think about our metrics and in terms of three buckets that I think. This really comes across as as sort of the standard metrics that. That exist across all mediums and we really think about sort of a funnel. Going from from reach. Two engagement so you know how many people actually -- the message how to people engage with that being the second piece and then third what was -- sentiment or advocacy associated with it. Those are actually actually tweaked a little bit for the online world in to insert the web two point know the definition of reach actually changes of which isn't just how many people saw my message out there but if you think about branded content people can. -- that they can copy that they can match up they can create derivative works and so when you think about reaching want to think about. What we call the true reach or all all aspects of that and how many people actually saw any part of that message good bad indifferent whether it's created by the -- created by the consumer you want to think about all those things. With engagement we really think of that as. As and then there's many definitions being -- been out there but again we were for trying to come up with something that's comparable and what advertisers today understand his reach and frequency. And so we think about engagement as a as a time spent type of metric that we can take to. To understand the frequency with which somebody is interacted with that message and putting those things together we can start to come up with some compare apples that we can use sort of reach frequency equivalents that we can use to compare televisions band vs videos that that."

" It's like and jumping up and -- too big fan of of their product. And what I love it until the problem I think that that advertises had been traditional media that they have no idea what happens to. To what they spent. I'm whether or not it's effective and acting Internet offers. A number of solutions and these guys are really tapping into into those possibilities to my favorite example. Is the I think it's Kobe Bryant the clinically jumps over the Aston Martin. You might have seen an online and they can I think by the second to may be by the frame. Check to see whether people are engaged. By for example. Just. Measuring traffic but also measured whether people fast forward or go back and want to look at this again this is an illness is not really you really jumping over this card is can't be real. Because there must be some insurance issues right he's not going to risk his -- so people go back -- and -- and some really powerful example of what you can do. Only on the wet and not on TV it's impossible to imagine these things on on TV."

" Yeah and I think I think the example there just to put a local -- collar around it it's. What we're able to do and again I I go back that the whole point of you know what the metrics that actually matter what are the ones that are going to move the needle so we can measure you know how many ties people fast forward rewind if they -- friend and always have ever basically anything that you can do with a video. -- is measurable the question is what are the metrics that actually move the needle matter. So the way we looked at engagement was not about you know we can look at where people drop off in the video where they would want to wear -- passport but we do is we take a holistic view to say. You know I think the clip was about a minute long and on average people or watching a minute -- half of that clip meeting. There's a lot of -- behavior and and and things like that so he's put that in the context. What an advertiser understands which -- frequency it's about a one and a half times frequency that every every view was getting so that we were able to put that together. With the reach of that content again all the mashups and derivatives people jumping over their cars in their garage and uploading that. Now people putting Hillary Clinton's face on Kobe Bryant things like that and we were able to take that true reached and then have -- frequency metric that we can apply. To help the the brand sort of assess. Not just what they do on on on online but what they did on --"

" are starting to slide toward the site your intention com which is very user law. And it's invites the question whether the attention economy economy that works days buyer's market results. So what what what we've seen here. Whether -- asked the judge in his -- What's negotiation."

" And wow I can't imagine that. A picnic well. One thing is the notion of attention editors that its its. Its equal. You know I have worked on such brands where. Not all attention -- you want to develop certain relationships and sort out. Ask your brand work and that danger and particularly tried to get a certain group. Who's able to -- Next and so potentially the worst thing that happened. It's -- the attention it's coming from the wrong. Audience and and that's something that were seen as barriers -- being broken out it's -- into the St. This is what. Does matter want it. It matters. -- and when -- an -- might keep that type of attention. What you product in ways you never intended -- Horrific. Now you can do one of two things if that happens I can say I don't want your attention that -- look at a brand like -- style for instance and all the sudden. It's very popular brand among inner city hip hop you consumers and -- Mentioning all types of rap songs and things you think that your brand is about some sort of French luxury has absolutely nothing to do that. That would be perceived could could be perceived as the wrong kind of attention and you could decide to want to. Reject that attention. Or you can take that tactic some other. Brands -- strategies have taken which is to say okay I didn't really need to talk to you but let's but figure out why you're giving me this attention and also widely using. What I have put out there in a way that I didn't intend. So. When and if things at least in my research had done is -- qualitative for search as well as on eighteenth to find out okay what is the relationship that's forming here. Why are these people given this attention and what is its brand mean to that. Regardless of what we out there put it as marketers decide it should me. So -- this attention economy. You know. I would look more at the seller's market at this -- and in the buyer's market excuse me when the buyers at determining kind of what deserves to get attention what does not and should you. -- to panic if your Barbie and you know drag queen Barbie is popular in certain -- and you never intended for your party to use that way. What I look at is the circumstances under which that -- wanted attention is actually quite good. For your brand even if its attention from people that you hope would never be associated with your plan. And under what circumstances. Those people who give you that attention can actually move from having that counter. Positioned to your brand to actually becoming part of actually becoming. Advocates for your brand. So I would say that I'm definitely and the buyers have a lot of power but. It's often a lot deeper than simply this is landlocked. Or don't want attention from and this is bad attention -- detention."

" But follow that up with with a little example. Of taking net. You know we all know about positive attention it's great to have positive attention there's a lot of buzz but but thinking about how to harness that negative attention and turn it into something. Into a conversation. With your consumers I think a good example of that is electronic -- has put out. The Tiger Woods PGA tour. Video game and and a user had uploaded a bug in the video game which is where you can get Tiger Woods somehow that have a shot when he's in the middle upon her something like that. And he put it up there is like saying hey look at this -- is that funny. Well electronic arts actually harness that. And they they came out of a response to that which is a commercial that actually feature Tiger Woods walking on water in -- yankees actually that good he's. He then went with obviously the biblical parallels there right but it's but it's an example of of taking that. And really turning that into that negative attention what could be perceived as a bug in the game report qualities software into. You know let's have fun with -- let's let's engage our consumers and let's encourage that kind of attention on our brand because. If you don't know what's out there and you don't understand the sentiment of the advocacy around your brand I mean how can you -- it. I think it's you know about two to shield yourself from negative attention is. Is to just really bury your head in the sand and happily take advantage of of what people are saying in and the messages that are coming at you."

" And that's -- arguments -- the heart of this I hear you -- animation there are oh others. Sort of talked about users' attention to me -- positive. Streets back. We're also talk another -- and that is what we call surplus organs. About it. Our our world your answer these studies that we find is that fans often come from surplus or audiences entertainment. Content seven women who like action adventure shows. Or adults like Harry Potter novels format like soap operas. These are groups to work harder for your relationship to the original content. Become more active can often be highly visible and may open up new markets or cultural materials -- much the same way. They unitary columns user let innovation on. Apple can open up he uses or expand the value. Manufactured."

" Unite and he's -- like to add to that I mean when I. When things I did was over two and a half years I've followed consumers who bought counterfeit versions of luxury products. And purchased and -- Counterfeit items in their homes so I went to U. Basically Tupperware parties but instead of Tupperware being soldiers -- in any of these homes there's you know the Tiffany jewelry -- bags. -- upper middle class suburban women who. Are a surplus audience they're not the people who are necessarily. Intended to be -- cutting edge you know fashion meets -- for the next line of time until they gain access to. Essentially backdoor means. And ethnic essentially they have to work harder to represent the spread to be seen its ballot to be seen as off and who. And through this process of working. What happens over time is these people actually. Move from thinking well this is potentially something frivolous to actually forming very meaningful relationships. With the brand as their consuming these items in a social network. So this notion that they aren't you sort of surplus audiences and that's what people sort of have to work harder to gain access what happens after they. Find out that it's not so easy to get through that door. That's that's actually very interesting and I think rich area of investigation. And requires. Some time because it really is a relationship that built -- unfolds over time. And when it things I'm finding out if you look at it sort of cross sectional you may drop completely different conclusion. And if you actually follow these consumers. -- the development relationship."

" And it worked on a minority report which seats are represented the future target. -- personal physician -- passages. I don't know if you can share some things I should stop working. Feldman it's just me how close were getting to that model that's."

" Share and well I think what what was interesting is you know we will with the premise that video could be everywhere. That there is no question that it was going to be able to know when somebody was there. The biggest question came in. Making that message relevant to that person and at what level would that relevancy exist. You know I can I can play clip if anything it from my computers and we can talk about kind of got relevancy level because they think that's where the whole idea of targeting. Is. Almost falls apart anyway because we have a lot of media now where it's it's mass media but it's targeted witches the space that I'm working in what we're trying not urinary Portman mediate who are everywhere. Will this -- out my computer or off the podium. You let me get on the podium --"

" And so. How many people of being the pulmonary or. Okay couple people -- let me let me set this up first and then we can kind of dissect development. And lead character Tom Cruise in this particular clip. He's -- basically he's running for his life. He's a wanted man. And he is going through way. But shopping mall basically."

" I'm -- into the it's."

" With the old fashioned."

" He has Tennessee irony of the targeting there. And that it's targeting him by name he's trying to be anonymous in a big way at that moment in time. And it's yelling out to him hey John wanted to and you need to get us and of course you know and in typical Spielberg fashion it's it's. It's pretty ironic and he needs a beer yeah I need need to Beers are using it then. Big something bigger than beer and he needs to escape with American Express yeah he does need to escape -- enough American Express is gonna get him very far in this case. And so. It speaks to the idea that okay what are the I call this the kind of the triple whammy of relevance and and working in place based media right now this is sources where. I think companies like yours can help us figure out how to measure the you know there's there's the typical advertiser approach of demographics. You know here's a here's a guy in and out of his early forties okay. That's pretty typical way to -- target somebody but that's pretty math if you think about it at a lot of guys would do we know what guys in their forties like you know they like a lot of things we just talked about that nation audiences. Then there's the second level of that. Relevance not the -- graphics. Can in the case of what I do it's like okay here's let's talk about this the supermarket for example and a screen at check out. We're talking typically a woman. Hate to say -- reduce the grocery store but we're typically targeting a woman. I'm 35 to 45. That's typical marketing advertiser terms for how we're gonna have positioned the spot you know our product is relevant. But don't have to look at where she -- case she's in the grocery store horse can be an in use that in billboards. You know driving and highway. And so that's kind of where she is many of the layer on that let's was the second graph of profile what's on her mind what's actually happening and that very moment in time. I am and that's really the key to making it relevant and really relevant and delivering the proper message. You know I think we can all relate to standing in line at a supermarket you're pretty much annoyed that you have to stand in line of supermarkets that's your state of mind. So what can be up on the screen that's that's going to help that state minor going to be able to give you an advertising message that you're actually receptive to it's not just the fact that -- in a grocery stores of course using enough food and your family we're gonna make for dinner and all those kinds of things maybe you're thinking about getting in your car some of the cars are of the great thing to advertise. But it's also your frame of mind that your annoyed because you're standing in line. Says the way that you expressed that message needs to take that into mind and I think that's what's really interesting about what we did in the minority report. In exploring this future world. That yeah how we can target -- an irritant. But it's still American Express -- methods and they are still trying to say you know use us for your travel in escape and there's a certain disconnect their because he's really not and the frame of mind of running to. Travel and escape in the way that America expresses thinking he has. At that moment times so as far as. Where we're at now compared to that the technology that you see in the -- we have right now we're doing it. He no retinal scans you know yeah we can do that but is that really gonna be the way that we're going to trigger these ads it might be RF tags you know a lot of other things that are in use right now. But as far as target of targeting audio and specifically in -- in the code and that goes directly to you or directly to her directly to him we can do that technically. Having a -- video you see those everywhere we can do that having it triggered. I'm by presence we can do that we can even tell whether a male or female is watching the media and change the media accordingly. But Kilmeade read their frame of mind and make the message specific to that not really. But. Yeah I wouldn't be -- if we couldn't be you know off on vacation with American Express against."

" You know I had I think definitely that there's technology for the delivery mechanism that that exist today. There is it you know we don't have the technology for frame of mind that we do have a lot of behavioral technology out there we did a demographic technology and things like that. But I think where where we're Edward -- falls apart a little bit. Is sort of the economics of of doing these kinds of targeting and and and I think if for entrepreneurs that are in the audience and thinking about a businesses. Where advertisers tend to fall apart on this this is how to we do this on scale so how can we. You know it's -- tremendously expensive production costs of creative and advertising is tremendously expensive and that's where a lot of the money you know media's obviously. A huge chunk of it but productions the other part of it and you know figuring out how we can dynamically change those messages and change the creative and in a way that we can actually send those messages and highly targeted fashion is is really where things fall apart and."

" That is too many that's why they need is here and because I hadn't really interested and again that that. The broad expanse and mass street versus the target ability and I am one model that we're using just to give an example. On the screen we divide the screen so. That there's an a portion that is for video and generally that video is a general message. That reaches a broad audience speaks to a broad audience and then there's a spike -- kind of like a skyscraper -- on -- website. And that's -- associate with the video in that skyscraper can be targeted. Down to the store level so we would know for instance. You know it's it's it's of a star of Florida versus a store in Minneapolis and it's the wintertime we want to target a certain way or in the instance of like national bank or something we would know whether there's a branch within three blocks or whether or assassinate him in that actual store and we can. Use the site and it's actually target that part of it so that we can build the economy's luckiest that in two. Paying for that big production number and then being able -- in the very simple and graphic that's targeted so it's it's it is you know it's happening but not to be accidentally consider. Kind of the frame of mind portion of that that and I'm really interest in what your perspective it is not that that it's something we deal with every day. How targeted its. Is it it before the economy of it breaks apart."

" Right right and and I had the concerns that you raising his those all the time I and and I think the irony of the situation is that. With all those wonderful new technologies I think what -- still crave most if you look at. The prices that they -- to pays these mass audiences that you can reach out months. And this is why the Olympics was was an advertising. Bonanza for everyone involved. And -- this couple has been having if you look at prices was typical advertising they've been going up at a tremendous rate in and then the last few years despite all these. These wonderful targeting opportunities so -- those -- ever has grappling to come detention this -- our question. -- on on the monitor. About how this might potentially changing in the new economy I think that is going to be. A major thing to watch what will we see now and Super Bowl is. Is car manufacturers dropping out no longer advertising seeing which is going to stand by and see if if we're in a position to do so. When the time comes just on the beverage companies might drop out as well. So this could -- should be the first year that we see prices shrink across the board for the two for the alliance. So it could be -- that this forces advertise to rethink their models and and that they go more for for those -- opportunities that. But so far I think we've not seen it they used them but and and depart that they spent on the Internet is growing. I'm growing quite rapidly but they still need to in north to it to -- to -- they need these large scale I protect okay."

" I think it depends on what their what their goals are as a business and and I see the connection between you know what what you're trying to what you're trying to -- trying to do in that. If you can reach the top leaders in the taste makers and the people that are going to spread the word. It actually is a pretty smart audience and you might not have to spend as much money -- and then they take the message out there I mean that's really what we're talking about in this web 2.0 model. And so perhaps you don't have to advertise to everyone perhaps he just have to figure out who he should be advertising to make it as relevant as possible to those specific people."

" I agree we just don't know who we need to advertise to -- we don't know who the opinion leaders are. And we don't know whether it actually pace to side with those so called him because there's been a lot of usage. In recent years and an I think it's inconclusive but I don't think we have a good idea. And social networks for example. Who how to recognize the people that can jumpstart. Viral marketing campaigns what. I'd those people with lots of friends of those people with friends that are very dispersed on those. People -- very strong connections. We have really no idea where we need to started at this."

" I think it starts with a passion make what you're saying the example I've seen and that have worked have been with them. They have been with younger audiences I guess I think of fans are Jones soda there are brands like that he started very niece and with a passionate audience that they knew. Wanted an alternative. And and then it became the buzz to spread it there."

" I agree with that right so but the question I think that advertisers struggling with these. How do I recognize on FaceBook someone that's passionate right how to measure that how'd -- do that on a large scale. What are the characteristics -- of someone who is inherently more passionate about my product and as long as we can't really measure that would getting there with beautiful new technologies. But I don't think we're there yet again and this is why advertisers keep going for these mass solutions."

" All -- want to misuse chime in on the social network part I think that there are a lot of questions being raised and still on answered. In terms of whether in fact this notion that these particular taste makers sense team to target ordered CDs a lot of data. Mostly used -- separations that show that you can actually. Use not taste makers so to speak and come out the same sort of result in terms of viral spread snow you know Duncan -- that stuff. You don't necessarily have this kind of one group. Who and I'll be gone in terms of the first. A doctor on and also looking at this notion of structural holes in the gaps between. Actors would people who have most adept at -- those -- they may not even most central. -- network in terms of the person everyone goes to -- price he just may be the person who gets around different networks. More so than others so. I think that it's actually quite nuanced and it's wonderful that we got to the point where we can actually get into these more fine tuning annualized. Understandings. Of how people interact. What are the motivations for what some people actually shared expertise. And other people what. Other people say. I don't want to -- you want the next thing I prefer being one -- anyone knows. And so understanding what the circumstances under which you'll see different types of behavior and getting a true and what deeply into -- It's almost like we've got two different stage this understanding what's exciting -- me and information its -- speaks -- conclude."

" But the way we've been looking and it is. Is again like obviously the Super Bowl has a mass appeal and so you can you can get your you know XX million impressions right in one spot thirty seconds. But the way we look at it is. How do you find potential reach and so by by going to the taste makers at a way to do highly targeted message to you know handful of people that. Ultimately you want to still get that reached to make the economics work. And so. We've developed some models that where we're looking at now where we're looking at the morality of videos and how things spread and how they go from property property or person to person or who tends to. Refer videos more than other people I think. That the difficulty there is that we can we can get. Pretty descriptive about what's happened in the past it's hard to become very prescriptive because. You know I think you know what makes something viral it's still. You know very very elusive I think there's some characteristics can be -- but you know to to understand you know make new viral video I think it's still it's still very very."

" Elusive concept right and I think the challenge for advertisers rate notes that there is no one way to do it and -- I think that's the way. Them a lot of industries and positioning while he's either advertiser on the Internet or you know advertisement in billboard advertises store. And really you know unfortunately the the way the industry structured in the budget buckets that they have -- so traditional and it's hard for them to think about other alternatives. And it's hard for them get the money to do that but they should be it's putting it everywhere. But the important thing to understand is that it's not the same message everywhere it's not just they shouldn't do the creative in the same way I'm all -- different platforms. And I think that's really what advertisers are missing."

" Right and -- has backed the production but I think where the convergence idea comes is that. You know -- you know I question whether you have one device or where you have highly targeted specific messages for the device which is very contextualize. As we heard before so you know when you're looking on your iPhone it might be to very different context and different frame of mind then if you're sitting at home watching your big screen TV. Or -- laptop at work right so they're very different context and so the messages need to two more."

" To those contacts those mediums. Some so want to theories about how we -- value from airing from Arab nations is the long tail here. Chris Anderson as the Mercury we can create value by targeting apparently. Very specific highly motivated groups of consumers. Why from the back catalogue. Or whatever. You're impressed they say you know now the long long wondered futures. Strengths and weaknesses model here sure."

" Also I think it's hard. First people to agree on exactly what -- argue I think the key -- said the key to I didn't get this book is to be his biggest possible."

" So that no one can really verify whether or not what you're saying is right I've not had the pleasure of writing successful business -- I can easily say this. The but so so when I look at his book I think he's he's arguing to basic things differences. Is that. The Internet makes it possible for. Producers and retailers to offer -- far more cheaply. Then before so the transaction costs are going Don and for us to search for goods former cheaply. Former effortlessly. And the result is that we see a much largest supplier of goods right so if we would. Actually think about all possible products that we can offer. Offline channels only offer any any any small chunk of those and so the typical store might carry 10000 -- dvds. Online and Amazon we find millions of those right if if they are available millions of books -- millions of music titles so in essence that hill. Actually would rank product by this sales there's an enormous -- its opening up an online child I don't think anyone disagrees with. I think that that's a very valid point -- to supply side argument I think the second thing what he's saying which which -- fundamentally disagree with. Is the idea that. As we make these things available. We will actually see people's tastes shift. So whereas previously we would be consuming in the head of the distribution we will be consuming the hits. That were created and Anderson saying artificially created by by the mass media out by -- these retailers. We now confined. Whatever we were craving in the old world's we can now find those in detail. So we can better matchup preferences and slowly we will see detail. Becoming a bigger chunk of what we continue. I have not seen any data that actually -- that back him up in fact the more we make available online channels the more. We find our case converge to the same. Seeing the the more we have easier access to hold onto different products the more we all -- the same point it's depressing if you think about it. But it's true if it it's sure it turns out we all want to listen to Britney Spears if we have the option. And so less -- that I think and we see over and over again in data at least there's that I've I've analyzed. Certain optimistic very democratic view of how markets will change as something that data back and."

" He extended from the planet."

" I'm thinking about Britain's."

" Condit as not -- and other people's observations. I."

" Well it does actually -- with Myers I mean I look at this notion of democratization verses and it's distinction and happy Easter top down effects. What's happening. We've really seen this kind of democratic. Asked Jewish going on now it's a bit different thing and eat it search like. Yeah fact that. This notion that democratization is is definitely. Where you know everything's going. Actually find that that that's not necessarily the case so. For instance if you feared that you don't have control your -- anymore because there are lots and lots and -- without it. And there's dispute that you democracy democratizing now anyone can access and what these elements -- what. What I find is that that's not actually necessary keys arm. In my such and look at it that it from a different perspectives on somewhat at look at what happens message before when you have -- that are appropriate. -- Not high stacks consumers and what happens. And it's almost tragic for the people who. Want to seem like they're getting access but what happens is that these people feel that they happens. Proprietary information -- Figure out new ways to exclude these other people who are ostensibly. Democratizing the -- So for instance you can go on FaceBook and there are lots and lots of groups -- entitled. Darling I can tell by the rest of your outfit that you --"

" You know and I talk to consumers over and over again inexpensive. It's it's moving target where you know the more these people try to gain access it's almost like this studio 54 model the more people you have out there clamoring trying to imitates. The target moves and so they changed the criteria for inclusion so -- and then this and how arm into this in teaching it. They becoming that democratize. World what actually happens is these boundaries and getting really -- but. There would be defined by the consumers not by the manager. -- different managers so. You know it's that the data just doesn't support this notion that it's a free for all. I. Did so the statistics that."

" That I find most revealing and II tech tech tell you to data when it was still quite easy to to scrape. -- data. And the large majority of videos that are uploaded on YouTube I'm not watched even wants. Right and I scratch my head and think who would actually upload their video and not watch it themselves. I mean that's but that's a large majority of videos and many think about. You think about viral marketing and how hard it is to get your message out because it's gonna get lost in this is this is introducing an enormous error. In our ability to predict. With certainty which things are gonna -- and which not right it's really difficult to break through the clutter. And only those with powerful. Media distribution techniques are actually able to get through on on an ongoing basis yes there have been successes of people. Dead were unknowns that Annan on people. A singing over well known songs. I think there a couple of the Japanese guys that become very famous and we all know one -- two examples. That those -- that the large loud minority and the truth is that big chunk of people can't get through. Despite all their efforts they can't get through and and the intensity making it harder for them on these."

" So you're you're raising an interesting question which is that period where it -- with the fact that produced by tapping music. So what happens if you block market what if there's an oversupply. -- very content what does that cute value tension. The value of its patients. This is not something I think. Four years ago Booker futures for speaking personally know what. It -- scale of participation. Of certain chip. Without reason I guess there -- questions we are surprised restrict your point engagement earlier. And basically. In terms of same language of frequency genome which the state has some say it's the same impression model and the same attention model we've seen all along. So what's the value protest fiction as part of this definition impeachment that where they'll work."

" Right and so so I mean this is not something that we came about overnight either is that we I -- again you struggle when you can measure everything is that you can measure passed along you can measure. Sentiment advocates the end all these other. Other things that you it's you can you know put into engagement I think -- of the advertising research foundation the -- put out a survey thing about a year and a half ago about. In I think that best like 25 people to measure engagement of what their definitions vacation where they -- 25 different answers that were so wide ranging about trusting in the intent and feelings and things like that to the very heart and quantifiable things we've got people with very complicated formulas and indices of indexes it and all these -- things up. So so it is hard and so what we really strive to do was put that into a context that was. Able to be measured first of all that that use some advance measurement techniques but then translated that into a language that people understood and and and could. Grasp on because I think the way that we look at it is is that it is a new medium. And what we need to do with the advertisers who tend to be you know the majority of the guys that spent a lot of dollars you know in advertising tend to be. You know tied to traditional media I think that's that's fair to say and what we need to do -- sort of reach out to them. Get them to understand what what's out there and and and put it in the payment in ways that that there are accustomed to to bring him into an immediate then we can layer on. Morgan wants metrics and things like that I think. You know the third piece that I mentioned talked about reach an engagement and what we call certain frequency or engagement that we also look at advocacy and sentiment. And so what we're able to do is it's gather up comments and ratings and things like that and put them together. And have different visualization around and so it you can sort of get a pulse of what people are saying and and how how you can understand. What that what did general -- sentiment is out there I think. What that enables the brands to do is sort of harness all that sort of long tail activity that the videos that you get two views in three views and things like that. For example Kobe jumping over the card people putting their own versions of that out there and harness that'd be gathered understand sort of holistic we what's being said and what that attention is around break it."

" I was Austin. Surprise that it that you are using him more than traditional regions and engagement to. Frequency. And because what we deal with every day is that. Advertisers. Do Palin -- television for this perception of their -- and the perception of engagement. And when they don't really know who's watching or states you know their strengths and now the skipping the commercials on the TiVo but they don't know who's left the rim. And they just know that it's being broadcast. Yet they're willing to. Spend a lot of money to put the media up there. -- and then you have people who advertise on the web who are willing to pay for a how many times and clicks on something. Court you can prove that -- was actually there because they've touched it. I -- and then you have what we're doing and -- media environment where the -- are saying while you're there next product so we want. What you're putting up -- to be measured by how while the products south. I -- which is a whole other issue hurt -- especially when you look at some of the screens which are at checkout team are you done your shopping. And the purpose of -- the check out is really to. Lower the perceived wait time. To make a positive last impression as you leave the retailer all the screens in the -- meant to enhance the shopping experience I was kind of being flipped before when it's that we are annoying people because our job really is to not annoy them it's to give them information to make a shopping experience better. And so for us that values been very hard to determine and advertisers aren't really willing to pay for the checkout channel for instance because they're saying you are already shopping -- you leaving the store. But we're same but you pay millions of dollars again TV just -- enough people are watching and you know what they're state of mind is you don't even know what they just did. We can target advertising message very specifically from a creative standpoint because we know what frame of mind there and in general. And we know what they've just done we have a pretty good idea of what they're about to do. So you can see all the dynamics we -- how we can tailor the message to them but the values to the advertiser."

" And let's we can prove that we've sold products. Or that nobody touched it again that that the."

" I think you're -- he described -- sort of a stage one kinda measure and I I see this over and over again I wrote a case on not Comcast's. Video on demand service and death. They're big could. Tipping point I think in getting advertisers to join it was when GM said okay we'll sponsors them. -- some content on video on of that kind of one advertising one major advertising jumped on board. Then you've got something going and I think you have to talk their language. First thing you have to show them that the new medium can work in a traditional -- can. And -- I can give them what they're looking for. Before he can introduce all these anti I think I'd like this idea of looking at it as it states want the same frequency and H and and we'll get to lose to them more. Innovative measures. Is the goal line."

" Yeah I don't think that that's exactly it because what we're what we're in the stage of right now is that. In -- first phase is to convince them that this is even a viable medium -- right so you know we know there's an explosion of user generated content but. Nobody really understands how to value that so where does my message need to show up next to cats playing the piano right so I don't know but I'm scared by data from an advertiser right so. What -- what we're trying to do is to to give them some comparable basis to value the -- and say hey you're spending tax dollars. You know to launch a new car right let's say your GM and you're putting that into all these different pockets. It puts them over here and and we can show you sort of what the valiant return -- and then as they start spending more than you know we can take them -- in the past have. Better understand the nuances of the medium but but we're still so much in the in you know the first couple innings of this."

" This game. Of the audience out there seems to be clamoring for this story. So let lets forget I think it's -- score enough questions well or there and again. -- questions with you might hear people it. The question all fashion purple means. That means. -- got. So clean lined up the lights will go back and forth between reserve the right -- Wallace from here as well so. The first question is everyone keeps saying borrow. Didn't we get rid of that terms yeah. I was power to kill turn. It's -- viral could defend it or arguing that isn't back. The viable model for thinking about something you've been described it. I don't know rises and going to use the term viral for a right in the --"

" So -- I think I use it and I apologize. I have no reason for a diet and -- years. Yeah ha but yeah."

" titles -- tell why. Lady this -- really is."

" But like with the the metaphor is very. The brain likes it brain's like that did it properties -- have a ability despite themselves rather than understanding the networks -- of the complex structure is that things just happen that it's haven't seen as to why that biological metaphors so popular mean. As a substitute questioning --"

" I. I -- I don't think they use the word viral anti."

" Lights and batteries presentation of why it may or may not be appropriate. But I can. Maybe get a little story of perspective. I think what I think viral and talk about from the -- viral as we actually do use that term sometimes or talking to advertisers about. That the strategy behind the creative. For the check out channel in particular that's where we do most of the entertainment temporary. I am -- and is this is the stickiness another word that a NATO like and that that there are specific moment in time yeah and that along. That it that it that it kinda sticks in your mind and you want to tell it to somebody else because it stuck in my kind of like a song -- sticking your head and you have to go. Tells me the song of sticking your head telling other songs I don't keep -- that students are gonna -- turned the radio or something or think of the worst song that I can keep singing and and and it ends. So just just a quick treated example of that. And we're talking to TV land. In this kind of applies the long tail tip. You know you guys are though -- about its its shows from way back when we park past and we can all enjoy our childhood again. And and they wanted to be on the check out network and our our goal for anybody who is on -- network is not to do traditional advertising into a promotion for tuning and but to do something meaningful to the audience irrelevant the audience and entertaining to the giants. So I talked to them about our programming strategy and we talked about what there marketing strategy was and they came back with a really cool concept it's a little mini show. Called food for thought which works great at the supermarket. And it's hosted. And it uses clips and I am from their shows to support these kind of what I would call. Viral concepts. And food for thought some in the sticks in your head you want to go tell somebody else about it and the first. Draft of the first episodes they sent me. Who was. The hosts saying you know how are on those shows -- I have like the evil twin. And then they cut to some clips of like Star Trek where in -- Eagleton. Comes and tries to kill Kirk. And and it says. You know of the the only thing worse then then an evil -- is a twins that does good and then they show clip from the Brady Bunch where Peter is evil twin is actually trying to help with this -- working like a really good guy. And then it kept -- of those things like because wouldn't logically that make you the evil one. Yeah and it just as food for thought. They watch TV land lots Brady -- watch you know Star Trek. But it sticks with you anyone into Tulsa because so freaking funny you know an act and as they spread you know they wrote the scripts for their 52 episodes and and tried to bring them into that environment and bring some relevancy to. You know food or whatever else happens in the supermarket. It it was pretty amazing you know what they were able to do and that's kind of how I used the term viral is that it's something that you want to go tell somebody else about. But whether it's a disease in. The it's like a journalist acting can't get enough."

" So what is the second highest vote -- can you give us were specific examples of -- he argues the program reach across different media. Property for example the Simpsons movie even TV show Torre's. Hey don't want boxes that no outs so so you have a good example. Appreciate you. How we can treat."

" Yeah I think I think it's just coming back to so what we've tried to come up with is. I mean we really in our own media which is which is video and that sort of a box that that we're stuck in what we're trying to make -- so that. -- can pick compare do an apples to apples comparison and so what we tried to come up with. It is you know you have it some sort of offline you have the the gross rating point the GRP. Which is sort of as the currency by which. -- bought and sold. And so we tried to come up with sort of the VR appear the video rating point using those same concept of -- reach that. Take into account all the comments and derivatives and all the copies and all those things that are out there bring those together and the frequency metrics of engagement which gives you the detail in -- behavior what people do so that we can. We can -- lineup -- backside and I think. Because where our box that sort of the the level that we're able to go are not able to go sort of beyond that tell you how much sales he got from the lunch box with things like that. But it -- enables the -- agency to do is who's making the buys across all these media is to -- put our -- side by side with you know thereby -- newspapers in. Radio and television and all these other mediums to to sort of equate that to get a tip overall. Sort of you know understanding how many impressions were served in consumed almost."

" Do you find that. That angry that -- and that's what we're all striving to -- that where we found it difficult is that. You know advertisers have multiple agencies and then they also have their internal stuff and a lot of special projects at that -- Our internal actually not what their agencies and it's really hard to measure those things because it's so fragmented."

" Right and it and again I mean it we even see that in the video space that -- you know a campaign. Isn't just you know -- viral video put it on YouTube it's it's actually much more complicated than that there's media that spot that stuff that place their stuff that seated there. You know banner ads there -- With video in this -- I can't think -- thing was the effective thing I guess at -- in what we try to do and in the video space is bring everything together into one spots or at least your video bucket is accounted for yet you know whether it be through. Multiple agencies or through something you've done and -- so that's that's what we try to do. I think if you can do that across the other mediums I think then you can start having that. That full. Our picture."

" And I guess it also depends on on what the objective is set the advertising until. Studied marvel enterprises which might wouldn't speak to be the example of the Simpsons. And they have made clear objective for the objectives for the different activities. Today do movies mostly or at least until recently mostly to advertise their toys and advertising. Until then the way you you measure brand. Frankly to think through two movies is very different from -- situation in which -- movies standalone. Kind of media. Or if you if you have comic books mostly to test out concepts then again -- measure. -- their effectiveness very different from a situation which your objective is just sells many comic books as you -- this might also supplanting -- is very fragmented visa for advertisers different objectives in and reaching with one brand or seven brands across different media."

" And think that's the challenge of determining the value going back to defining the value versus the -- is that it's different depending on what the media is. And what platform. And what the hit into. -- and and that's a different way for most advertisers and marketers to think."

" Question back here to remind --"

" As we're just talking about how marvel has their own objectives like YouTube has different set of objectives that who do."

" Are we ever going to see a space where. Everyone in the room can agree on all these metrics are the metrics converging or when we keep saying realistically we have to take all of these things and now."

" It seems like in every single instance it's going to be different where. In this credible media space how to we assign a dollar figure for something that's a degree that victory victory -- work. That consumers are going on in the states so."

" Ultimately. Are we gonna have something that's going to be -- as simple as this newspaper dollars are."

" The supreme dollar and then."

" Is -- the -- always going to be fragmented and we FBI experts and kind of peeking out it's -- feel this is currently it costs. For everyone."

" And night. I have landed an analogy that might help but a lot of people called their marketing portfolio and not to bring up the source subject is an of the economy is not -- right now. But I think you'll I think you do have to think about all of it and and I don't think you'll come up with necessarily one way to measure anything and say about the value of it. But if you look at it like your portfolio and you have some things that are high risk some things -- medium and some that are low. And you figure out what's the appropriate balance for that particular product that your advertising or service they're offering her objective that you have. And you'll place the right budget and the right measures in each of those different. Parts of your portfolio."

" I would say and my experience if I read it hasn't changed one. Size itself the only kind of and this wouldn't even answer. It's balanced metric but in terms of relationships. Either -- he -- between the individual consumers. Relationships. -- but that's also very very end I think when you have very -- marketing strategy everything that might include it -- That might include. Unauthorized usage of your brand that you don't try to stop. -- an answer what condition et cetera etc. it's very difficult task that kind. One size fits all because its dynamic and I think you want to be that way and -- In terms of the grant ever done want to be something. Consumers engage in to that point it -- that's changing so perhaps how you measure which they aren't -- We'll change the fact that that's not necessarily acting ability -- at. It."

" I think I think you can have you can have standard metrics. But I think how you place value on those metrics are. It that's where it depends depending on the medium in the context of what your campaign itself you know I think you know reaches reach frequencies frequency and advocates whose advocacy but. You know what what's the worth of having higher advocacy. Of verses in in campaign in the brand awareness campaign -- say. Called action campaign I think that's where do you see the difference I think so. You know that the different you know when you by media across different channels and things like that you'll you'll have to value those differently. Depending on the intent the campaign as you mentioned before."

" Our question of the or wherever appetizing to prop up so also -- yet. Well crossings to prop up so much media and content whether or not consumers don't -- too. Are there other on the walls -- we seriously considered for paying for content. You college."

" Any of break it down and to there's there's really three models right is that I pay for it you -- someone else pace that's. That's that's really what it comes down to -- and so you know and there's certain there's certain mediums that that lend themselves to -- ad supported I think you know. I don't know if it's you know online video or user generated video does have. You know future if if if I have to pay for I don't know -- subscribe to YouTube. Right to see cats playing piano's right I think. But you know it's very hit or miss because I I there's little predictability there in terms of the quality of content that's available and so when you have mediums like that where. Very highly experiential. Where. It's the sort of uncertain what that value exchange should be -- or you know or how my words translates the value. I think that's where they lend themselves better to be someone else pane and -- right type models. Although."

" He could I think are you the same for HBO I and it's hard for -- to predict whether -- like the next set of TV shows that HBO produces but still. I think with the fewest subscription model is to get people to buy into it once and then to do. To not do things slowed dramatically. Bad that you actually want to cancel your subscription current threat I think that is the key. And -- I haven't seen and aside from entourage a great reason to stay with my HBO subscription that I keep paying it."

" And I think it's not. So much about necessarily the quality of the relevance they getting it back to the relevant Phyllis. You know if you type -- HB aren't known for a certain type of programming that. That you enjoy. Whereas YouTube is just pretty much everything and I wonder if he eventually you know they'll be subscriptions but it'll be to certain types of programming. We're certain you know ways not genre based it. More second graphic based."

" Yet we've seen but I think when you look across the video landscape there's there's a new sort of crop of people that are what we call the digital studios of the broad bands do that crop up which make original short form content exclusively for the web and and the ones that we've seen be successful are the ones that. You know aren't going to you know you've. We were for the number those kinds of -- but. They're very hatred and right so they may have you know the landlord which is some phenomenally successful video clip that was -- Will Ferrell. You know they also -- Paris Hilton with the election John McCain and -- spoof that was out there but that's very hatred and and the ones that we've seen be really successful little -- aren't necessarily hit -- but they can deliver. Predictable eyeballs from predictable audience bomb and you know regardless if it's. Ten million eyeballs or you know 500000 -- The ones that can be predictable are the ones that that that driving advertising dollars because the advertisers know what they're getting and I think it's aligning those expectations. Opt in and rather than playing for the probability of it it's just hard to do the lightning in a bottle. So is so there's a number of of digital studios that are out there that you know you might not have heard of because they haven't. They haven't driven base hits you know a site like heavy dot com isn't. Isn't sort of you know hugely successful and in terms of -- sort of for particular shows or programs but. Advertisers know what they're getting across the board herself so the ones that know how to. Put out content that can consistently. Generate things at sort of the same level and you don't have the ought to get there and there -- here and there I mean that's not bad either -- I'm saying don't make blockbusters right. But but you know I think that's that's sort of the HBO model is that when it. Why subscribe to HBO I know I'm gonna get a certain quality of programming whether you know I like entourage better than that and some."

" Then -- or something so so one of the things we hear often public is not ruling -- content line because -- country. Richard HBO example complicates that because we didn't. Free television cable television ourselves she's eight. Or television. Specific television maybe it's not television maybe just you know but where Hillary can't fire you -- At remote paper -- we got right so the question is what have you learned from working without example. Let's address this question pricing content on the web."

" That he goes back to what you're saying in the -- consistency. You know I know I'm gonna find something there that is always going to interest me then I might be willing to pay for it. I think there's also all."

" I mean to interrupt I think there's also an element of sort of what we're used to and if you move. Have been a BitTorrent user for years I can imagine two million enormous jump -- say let me start paying for content. And and we see example that -- I think the best established radio heads album where they said. You can get it for free. You just pay a small administrative fee and you can get it on our website for free with their latest album. And still the vast majority of people downloaded it for free through BitTorrent. Right that's an example you're innocent and green to do this the way that you're used to doing it. And then get the sort of the free price point is enormously compelling and it's hard to swiftly from an -- for convenience. Right but. But it it I didn't I guess sometimes says if the alternative already is convenient and you're not -- reason to switch then it's a problem and with HBO there was no starting point when we say it's quite convenient for me. To plug into the box that my neighbor as or it's quite convenient for me to. Copy these things off with someone else I don't think there was that. Convenient model to begin with and that was there isn't another media particularly music it's."

" Peripherals but for my parents that they had 2030 years of watching television in any room and a certain point here dissatisfaction with neighbors see me. Let them to want to subscribe to cable television services and now priced. He's our own history were massive number of people -- we can't. Compete for access to. Not quite act and repeats contact. But cable itself -- initial purchase and you convenience Reno. Okay good for you. Process of getting the cable guy they come -- and install it and so forth so I never know -- that argument just forget all that. Talk about this argument about."

" Couldn't but it's a different product not to different product what you get when you subscribe to cable is something that you didn't have it's different programs -- sports programs I think there's a big part of it why why we switched. Spots it's a different kind of product and would music it isn't -- the same album odd that you can download illegally or legally and if people don't tell the difference. Then. Why would you Olsen paid for if he used to not much --"

" The fifteen counties. He's going to -- I think that quality definitely plays a role but -- is authenticity which is something that it's often not necessarily measure. -- I have found it actually plays it very important role in dealing with. What compel someone to choose to pay or to decide T. Not that person -- perhaps I think that. It -- it from my serves consumers will decide to pay let it be for HBO but you know product. When they feel a certain authenticity is that experience. And brand itself. And you know I didn't look at HBO versus what television did look at. Why did you decide to pay you know multiple. 4000%. More for the -- product -- the -- And there's something about the opportunities EP. I'm the type of person who can. To discern between quality and what the opportunity to practice and that makes them want even get involved or have access to. The authenticity of the brand. And that's something that it's a hard thing to mention I understand some classic -- talking about but I think that's quite important. Because why what I hate the actual dollars worth of real authentic. Post if I can get for free. Since -- first. Story. And I think that this notion -- I want to actually support something that has authenticity to. -- is actually in its operating here it's costing consumers who don't necessarily have that much money to take my hat. It spending in ways that -- them that opt."

" Bikers so I don't know there the question."

" So my question originally was this going to -- and bring -- back to you know this there's yet consumption values to the key words in this panel we hadn't yet. Yet talked about. What are what are people willing to pay for. Consume media so I'm glad you brought it back to that because that's really one thing -- interest infamous panel. That. You know this sense of sort of entitlement. That he immersed you know I'm entitled to free media across the board. I mean in just pessimists because of the current conditions but I just keep seeing it downward spiral of that quality of content as -- look out you know ten to twenty years it's going to either be you know huge franchises or crap I mean. I understand -- economic incentive on the part of content providers if consumers are willing to pay at some point further entertainment content. And it's that sense of entitlement that's come up around content of -- over the years just has me concerned generally with the future of entertainment equality. So I just wondered Jamie has they hope there aura of."

" The best thing that happened -- I think I think it's not necessarily an either or I think that that the smart content creators right now. Are treating different content. Perhaps different quality arguably what quality means. For different platforms than different medias so there might be you know television show that's up to that traditional network standards. And then they might do a really low rents. Running gun type. Episodic that's somewhat related to it from a brand standpoint that can play at a mobile phone. And so I don't really look at it as an either or necessarily but I -- what you're saying -- it is a little just prepping kids. It really has to -- I think with the pipeline everybody would like to see better quality of their I don't think you could argue that you know we can get. All equality in in a small vial. On our computer there's no reason that we wouldn't want to watch it and it just has to do with the pipeline right now for the web anyway."

" I think not all content is -- sizable and I think that's okay. And it you know so long as you know that that like for you to for example I think. There's enough once there's enough stuff paying for the other stuff I think it it makes it makes it okay and customers who find cats playing the piano can find. You know content that can't be monetize themselves. I think but we need to think about what the monetization models are and they're I think you know we try to apply ones from other mediums like television. It just sort of cut and paste it over top and it took us a long time to figure out. How to monetize television if you go back. You know we had soap operas -- sponsored content right and we sort of evolved up to the 32 spot. You know I think that same evolution needs to happen in social media. Particularly video I think you know you have to -- and white syndicated content. You have a T those skipping the sort of generation that's had that entitlement and some brands need to think about. Ways to integrate their message better with the content so it the analogy I use is that you know if you watch a hockey game. Right dubbed the ads are all along the sides of the board's right so you might see you hit The Home Depot latter you might not right. In NASCAR the ad is on the car and it's integrated and so everybody knows it's The Home Depot card is actually integrated with the experience right and so. I think you know you apply that to two video where you sticking out of the front nine at the back in May be. Something that comes up over the the side of -- error in the middle of it. But again it's not sort of integrated into the experience and I think where you're seeing much more brand integration. And a product placement is a little different from brand integration product placement is like. You know you see a billboard for something as as a car drives by and or somebody drives a particular car. Whereas brand integration is really making -- part of the experience if you see that we passed away for example team's employees where. Fedex's. Sort of part of the story right. I think those are sort some of the more innovative monetization models I don't think that works for everything. But it does work for some things and hopefully it works for enough that we can pay for the other stuff."

" and -- you know with the talking a lot about metrics of her obviously really important ways understanding in measuring. How this is functioning but in terms of thinking about. Paying for authenticity. Or the state of mind when you're standing at the cash register or why we all might be listening to Britney Spears we have so many different options and really curious about the status in the value of qualitative consumer research. And how that is augmenting or working less -- the metrics basic is even discussing."

" So."

" So IA -- quality of the search quite it. Both acted as a practitioner now an act activist I think that it's under god frankly and I think. That it is really important that it be the first Japanese grounded theory grounded reserves. It's crucial because you don't even know what variables to use. Okay and to -- you understand the relationships. That typically debt -- protecting them crop enforcers. One example in my former life I worked on detergent. Mac's brand and the company was trying achieve. Use this Mac's brand. And and do different sort of targeted. Iteration of the campaign. In one instance -- African American audiences and -- campaign. Was actually without. Terror and efficacy surround act right -- the campaign was coming to this month festival. Where people where like playing in the mud in. They brought this Washington tired here acts like -- out you know ticket might close its activists now. So that was great and and wanted to use my African Americans and could not understand. Why wasn't working and why Aaron. Was definitely against it. And so what did was actually went into homes. Out all across the country that Louisiana was our first market and I'm sitting here in this person's home. And this person has very modest living conditions but they have this. Most elaborate sort -- menagerie of nick -- and this is like the pride and joy in you know this whole -- around these acts in an otherwise very modest. And it was only by going into homes and seen how consumers use the product. And how they feel about themselves and what makes something authentic group clean. What the definition eat it it's of -- And not the outcome variable put a whole other experience that people start to understand that never with the audience be caught dead covered -- not. Because when you're coming from as sort of place lack of power. The thing you want to do is over compensate and be extremely put together an extremely clean and not just clean because. This came out -- but respectable. And so the campaign and approach is very different and became more about this -- And the campaign has since been quite successful in the audience but it would never gone that way without understanding what the meaning is behind. And I think there there are actually quite numerous examples about the power. A qualitative for search and in my own just -- search I'm an east and I would never think that consumers using fake would actually increase their -- real. So. I think that it's something that. You have to fight for. And it may sound nebulous but it's sort of comes out and tap very a lot of power. And I think it has a crucial role in its first."

" So listen to your question of the why we oh why certain content emerges as a hate to think was was part of your question. I'm sure if I can look at this in in a purely qualitative sense is as some others here in the room can do but I think three reasons one is that. A lesser talent is no substitute for a great talent. I -- we have a choice between -- and and second grade opera CU we choose we opt for -- Rodney because we can't. And an increasingly can this still does not explain why go for Britney Spears yeah after the so the second would be."

" The fact that there's a cost advantage to. To hates -- what we see is most media content is extremely. Costly to produce but once you have one version it's very very cheap to be produced. So if you had hit its it's a disproportionately. Profitable. I -- is is doing to put it and the third reason I think that might be more qualitative. Is is that we'd like to talk about what we consume and the like to share those experiences. On this is of the water cooler idea right we we'd like to. It's really frustrating if I seen a great movie and I cannot talk about it when anyone else. So we tend to converge on content and I don't think that that is going away. In fact I think you'll become even stronger."

" go to the board the tough question there comes Alice Marwick released about balancing economic value and social work. She's your rights argued technologies that enable the basic targeted advertising. And that social benefit. How can they be balanced -- can't -- public space and consumer privacy."

" I guess is about I think we've driven in this discussions -- a lot like what makes money. And what I would wish that others -- social sciences and it's."

" Yeah I think and I think advertising has to have that that value or worth extinction and and that's just sort of you know not to get on a soapbox but. But it's it's it's about making that advertising relevant and so. You know I think sometimes it but say imagine we -- perfect technology and we are perfectly targeted I think then you -- actually. Be aware of things and it's it's about providing information for you actually make decisions or make yourself aware of things that you actually are interested in now. Where that I falls apart is that we don't have perfect technology we don't we aren't able to understand frame of mind in context. And deuce you know generate -- about scale that we can actually do that level of targeting I think. You know we're still a ways away from and I think if we could do that then. That it that it really makes sense and and I think advertising's actually been valuable I think. An example of of where. Company it's really trying to push the envelope there is FaceBook where. You know you can. Vote on whether the advertising is relevant I think it's it's saying hey you know what. It's FaceBook you're not paying for it so we got that you know we gotta make money somehow get a keep the light on and and keep the servers running so we got to have advertising here but we want to make you part of that experience we want to make cute puppy participate in an experienced by telling us. You know is as relevant is that not relevant you know how we make it better and I think that's where you're creating. You know not just where the media wherever the advertising itself but the the media property itself was actually trying to create that dialogue as alongside. The advertising unit itself."

" I didn't think relevance is key. And I I also think it might feed. More logical for certain brands says to provide. Social value to us and and and not by the so it's really hard for racial -- to be relevant to us and to not feel intrusive when they try to reach it. It's far easier for a Nike or another sports a panel bragged if we're if if we're sports fans. Right so such I do think relevance is key and and it's hard to challenge for. Office of products of friends."

" And you're getting his excuses striker 150 reasons. The story and experience. And I bet you'll that would call so I guess I'd let me get this question I suspect -- people in the aren't don't think they experience job. These are what you were addressed that criticism. Personally what are you doing to make it an enhancement rather than it traction what's what's the answer."

" It's again it's the same as what they're saying it's about the relevance of it. I think with with outdoor. One got out of home media or -- media right now. There's been a -- a real estate business going on and not really. A marketing relevance business going on so. A lot of the screens that are out there are invasive they are kinda just. Stuff plastered on the screen. And don't really have context. Two got space of that moment aren't the people that are standing in front of them. And so every day what we're doing is is researching that. Quantitative and qualitative. Finding out. What shopping behavior is within -- store. How can we bring more context more relevance to that messaging how can we make the tone in the manner of the way we talk to the shopper appropriates that is not annoying. How can -- affect the technology. Much talked about this earlier with the audio targeting. You know that it's not just a screen blasting audio but that at the screen. I'm sending audio to a person's standing three feet away standing directly in front of the screen. I'm so there's. It is there is there is activity going aren't there is that consciousness and in trying to make it. Enhancement and not an an intrusion. I would say it's the people that that are annoyed by it it's because it's not being done correctly yet it's it's that despite the fact that it's been you know an industry growing for at least twelve years now. And it's really taken off in the past year and like I said there's a lot of people abusing the space -- And I think you'll final night of annoying messages that and confident and an optimist I think it's gonna get there. And you know through great measurement in research and creative thinking. I I really believe it will be useful tool for all of us and and it's inevitable. You know it's it's really just taking. There's still signage that was there before and putting it onto a screen so we've out of sight sound motion not just site. And when you have motion -- emotion when you have sound you have storytelling it's it's a different way of approaching the audience. And I really think it is going to be more beneficial. In the end I think there's especially from a product standpoint. In this you know might be extremely artistic but if there's a new product on it's it's potentially of interest to a certain shopper. You know -- you like to know about that when you go into the store that there's something new that you might be interested in and wouldn't you like to note that may -- there's a different use for something that you usually by. -- that you can get more use out of it more value out of it. So I think that there is that there's a lot of benefits that the the have to be done correctly responsibly and I totally agree that."

" So people wish you lots of revolutions -- in the economy of the spurts of their culture and everything but. We still see companies like. Taking down videos from YouTube because of copyright. -- you think that -- legislation surrounding intellectual property was sold. Really behind Clinton terms of that and still getting in the way. How can that change for them."

" And I think. I think you do see that and and I think it's it's really because of two reasons is there's one is that. It's this whole idea of sort of the web on versus what to -- which is. You know the idea of I need to control everything I keep everything in a walled garden -- one -- you know let's let the content. Be at least take a life of its own prop up in different places and and I think you know you still see now -- have one mentality so that's one piece that's contributing to it. I think to is that you you have no idea who's watching matter what the value that is and so -- there's no way to value that in no way to find that. And that's what people try to take it down that there's there's no way to understand. What the value is of putting something up there and having somebody even if it's not doesn't have an -- next to it or something like that to understand that hey maybe this activates. People to go watcher if it's -- television spot. You know to go activate people don't watch. You're on air piece of its its really using as a promotional material so so not. Understand the dynamics and not a not understanding how to tell you that medium or talk to real big contributors in terms of understanding. How to best leverage the medium and take advantage of those dynamics. You know we work with. A big broadcasters that has a big lawsuit with the YouTube and didn't have you know what we're trying to help them understand how to best understand that medium -- leverage it can't take advantage of that."

" Afforded us a good down to that the just more than micro level for them to those and that they've paid writers and actors and do you know -- and creative directors to come up with that content. For a specific medium meaning television and and then if it shows up somewhere else they're liable for it because they haven't actually paid the writer and actor for that other exposure. And so that's why you're seeing the strikes in Hollywood. And it's it's that there is that we're working with in a very old industry that's very well established and it's like turning the big ship around in the water. You know there have to be other models at a very micro level there have to -- other models. End and that hasn't happened yet so in I I would argue that in some cases it's not because they're the big corporate giant thing don't watch that. I would say it's the big coverage I'd say oh my god I think it's -- how these people -- and that don't watch that right now but we'll figure out how to make this a sensible. I'd I'd get a -- in that month that I. The."

" A question about that and it may pigs I think with these -- the issue about H -- before but also how we how we transition quantity he spices. YouTube is respects but success might -- number of views so. You know one of the challenges on YouTube is that was from my clients. Content aimed. We can understand success on the -- and we think that Tiger Woods video it beat its -- the whole Lotta times but the number of views that has just substantial. Is a drop in the ocean in all of you -- But if we think about and if you look at the stats on the tug boats via its like the number five. Most viewed videos with in the gaming channel on. You -- so. For us what we have to think it just the what you think about not talking reached but couldn't we use something like you choose to monetize the social relationships around the video. I think some of the issues among -- was still trying to deal with the content I think its content. In a television environment where all you ten months but ultimately the number of times people watch it. It's no wonder whether we need to shift the frame of reference we think about. But the legal issues and and and that monetization -- you don't need you to sit trying to address some of these qualitative questions. About maybe it's it's the number of times. Maybe it's what people -- about. As opposed to the number of times it's viewed of course the challenge yet there's it was -- from what you know max. Market so. -- and our allies still priced around. Qualifying large things such as my question is is you know is it possible to overcome some of these issues if we think about these social media spaces spaces will be -- Engage with social interaction and outside that Robin focusing on content specifically."

" Well a lecture from Ghana. Be addressing that question I guess maybe I'm very traditional in my views here but. I fight you're broadcasting and five saw clips of my programs. Up up up on YouTube I'd be very concerned on a number of levels yes I'd be concerned about the rights issues if I paid. For the rights to -- sports content or. Or dramatic content I can't have this end up -- online is I'm liable but also I'd be concerned that there is an intermediary. Popping up. And and I don't want to YouTube to become a powerful phenomenon and in the media space. Just as I didn't want it fire record label I'm thinking about this I don't want apple to be a dominant player in in the music states in I didn't want next to become a dominant player in music space. I'd much rather have people come to my eyesight and much by content and his I'll make. Advertising revenues much more directly I can make more money from that. And I can and I can really control the kind of branding bad that people people see when they look at my programs. -- took on a number of levels I want to stay away from YouTube as much as possible. And yes it's great if people player out of my content and it might have. These benefits ended by its great if if Saturday Night Live is passed around people talk are talking about it and they they tune in more. But it's also extremely scary and I think for the right reasons. So I guess sometimes they understand where they're coming from these broadcast is I'm not -- I would be doing anything different. I -- what we've learned the music industry's that you shouldn't let someone else take over. And you should he should maintain control over the channel."

" If there's anything for the music industry it's it's that you should -- the -- for -- swing you know when the market changes and the music industry didn't have to go down the road that went. It does not to be -- is now. It could have ten years ago it decided to what -- which for the -- that he wasn't responsible for anymore. -- but you know it just to the -- instead it tried to make a new media -- the -- and opening its eyes and if you treat you -- buckets full cost of distribution that you going to be disappointed. Because that's not. Only what are days."

" Understood understood. I'm not singing music industry did a whole bunch of things right -- suing customers is not necessarily -- And and and fighting this the way they -- that I don't think is right that if you ask them I think if past record label executives now what would you like to have had I think they would've liked and up with a channel. Over their website where they controlled Condit they can measure. What consumers do and what bundles of products people consume. And and and they have control over it. And it might be something that's not possible but I think the television industry has learned from that and and Hulu is we talked but it is an example of them trying to do that and relatively successfully."

" So let's go to the board here and no question there. So in your opinion is the question is experts discussed around what's it mean -- it really -- In your annual state of the economy negatively affect corporate -- two point going to be. And development budgets shrink workers' demand more accountability. And less exciting media organs for conservatives now. Because while the other ships that are taking place in or. He's just because people become more desperate are they going to try innovative strategy because it's the only way. Keep -- Against the car."

" But I think I think we'll definitely see a shrink I mean I I think it's hard. You know went went GM is a huge advertising and they shrink their budget you know you're going to see other advertisers shrink their budgets and things like that so. You know who the again who paced sport where those revenues come from and where you can be. A lot more innovative I think you know companies will downsize they will be cleaner and they will try to put things into. More measure -- predictable channels and I think you know its its. You know it's tough to say it it's it's it's a difficult thing that -- with but I think you know that general contraction will. Trickle down and and into other areas I think. Where where what we sides sort of the last sort of after the of the web bubble burst as we saw right I mean that's for Google really grows and it's because. They were able to measure and put real quantitative metrics again you know how many people clicked on -- and how many people -- and it was a really a measurable channel. You know we can put those same types of metrics next to some of these things that have been experimental so that we can understand the value of them. I think people you know we can fight that contraction that's sort of downward pressure. By by saying hey here's -- real value of it I think. You will see less experimentation though because not everything can be measured a lot of the qualitative things in the brand impact things will be. You know who's gonna pay for them and we can't measurement I think. You know that's just a reality."

" However I think we look on the consumer side of things well that's exactly that I think he -- corporations that I'm more conservative approach. But I think what you can that's just you can you might see on the consumer side of things is senate trying to get around some of the obstacles but maybe financial. Access obstacles. Two different kinds of consumption experiences. Being subverted. And keep being inundated in the and intelligent in the -- the access things that may require money. And so you might scenic -- and development on that side of of the relationship. And that's not necessarily bad thing but it could also of course. It could mean being increased consumer generated content or. Illegal consumer access. Implications which could be in my opinion -- one."

" I completely I think. The more transparent the media man and and the more. Conservative I think we'll see less cuts and and the innovative stuff we'll get cut in the short term at least."

" Up next question so there. -- in your experience. What role at the needy to -- been providing in helping to create these bodies of metrics and consumption. Or what will happen they've been doing and I guess the question is really it seems like they have access to all this money and counsel to give to the brands. Why aren't they working with more content creators to create more. Quality. -- authentic content in order to drive greater significance and relevance."

" You know for their brands. But what we're we've seen it from our our perspective is is that. You know we're still in in innovation cycle organization phase in the medium where we're still trying to experiment and figure things out. And so we've seen the creative agencies really lead the charge there. And provided new ways to reach customers new ways to to speak to them and have dialogue with them and tell stories that I think. You know the traditional media agencies are. But perhaps have lagged behind in that and -- sort of thing they come and sort of the -- or doctor face we haven't seen them take a leadership role percent. But we have seen them sort of crave for. Some kind of standardization some kinds of waste a simple -- I think it's tough to do that what we're still innovating and we're still trying to figure this out. It's tough for that to impose a standard term posts. Rules and impose like common veterans -- we don't even know what we should necessarily be measured right now. I think the way and -- again just the way we've tried to reach them is this -- provide them some compare apples. But when we worked with that creative agencies we do much more innovative things to help them figure out what they should be doing and how to leverage some of the dynamics that are going on."

" I think of men have been great examples of agencies that that are ahead of the curve I think digitized is is one that. Boston based I think. Boston headquartered maybe even. Is is one that that I think is is leading the pack. I also think often overlooked either that needed that the talent agencies I think CAA is playing huge role online and most people have no idea -- So us a look for them -- to lead the pack as well."

" Well I would like to make another comment but everything came to. Now it comes to picking fake stuff and I have research on -- keeping in banana have been in. Another conference so president very important determinant it's been confidence. Piracy I'll look cook I have data across product categories not on a brand sold like pharmaceuticals. Media textbooks. But there other -- price that's permanence like. -- just -- location. And use of time most of my informants. Negotiates. Quality. And use of time. And whether to buy an authentic or not authentic I don't want to -- on a -- fake one not authentic. Because I want to -- listen to this wants why would I pay all that money. They were telling most of them so their other determinant spend consumption of media icon to fit -- piracy media. And what of the other things we found is the co production of value is not the word but it's the words how do. Consumers. Produce value because they reject marketers. Setting the value this -- its own back is 4000 dollars similar one is ten dollars so. This is not -- fairway off pricing so I buy this back and set the prize co produce the value in the marketplace. But."