Title: Podcast: "Communications Forum: Popular Culture and the Political Imagination"

" The we're going to begin in one minute can you hear me in the back as the my quirky. Okay thank you. Good afternoon people my name is David for -- I'm the director of the MIT communications forum. And professor of literature. It's my privilege to introduce today's panel. And him before I do that I'd like to simply remind everyone in the audience that. We are embarking this semester on -- very exciting series of forums and a as well as the conference in April. On the events of the forum are listed on the communications forum website. This is the home page. Which are looking it now if there's anyone in the audience who hasn't signed up at the at the communications forum website for. Notices about or events I urge you to do so we are very we guard our. The email this very jealously it is. I don't see it never happened but almost never happens that you will receive a message from the communications forum that is about it communications forum event. And there are only a few of those that we don't clog your mailbox the few exceptions have to do with events that are so relevant to -- nation. That we feel our audience should be informed about them and they're always very preakness so. You run no risk if you sign up and you'll have the benefit of getting advance notice about various. Projects and events that we sponsor. I'm especially excited. And curious about today's forum which seems to me to present. -- mix. Of speakers. And the topic discovery. -- always been important. But it's become. I think central one works -- politics in recent years. It's something very briefly each of the speakers and the moderator professor Jenkins. Join -- sitting closest to me -- here is the deputy director of the Norman Lear center. Where she performs research on celebrity culture. Global entertainment. Digital technology. She lectures on many aspects of media and interest and the entertainment industry. -- held a range of jobs in height in in in high tech firms in. A range of high tech jobs including such. Position says where producer web site review -- digital archive list. Research librarian she's universal genius seems. -- but don't be too happy that's what they say about -- wells. In May not be so. In the middle David Carr who is a columnist for the New York Times. Rights his column appears every Monday. And is it it's quite remarkable I think what range of materials in recent years corps has shown himself to be. Competent to write about and even a specialist in. A whole range of things having to do with popular culture and and celebrity cultures you may know he's been. He is the carpetbagger for the times is to say that whose alias -- the person who follows the Oscars and he's he's just detoxify I think from now. I'm very demanding experience and he said this horrible task of having to interview celebrities for the last few weeks I feel very story form that. Car one of course preoccupations. Is one that I especially -- in the forum as. Look at from time to time it -- defeat of newspapers in the parent. Disappearance. Of of the newspaper as silly as a central force in American society with a possible disappearance of the migration of some of our best newspapers. To what -- in the long term almost certainly be an identity only on the world wide web. And this is -- matter to which he's devote a lot of attention his columns and if there's an opportunity in the question period some -- want to ask him. David -- also the author of very courageous recent memoir that has been. Justly. Admired by the reviewers wrote. A book called night of the gone. A personal and very revealing memoir that virtual if you read. Stephen don't -- furthest from me teaches history and policy and the politics of media and culture at NYU. And in recent years his work has become. Among the most often cited by students -- popular digital culture. Among his books are too especially influential titles two influential titles. Notes from the underground. Scenes and the politics of alternative culture. And most recently. A book entitled dream. Re imagining progressive politics in an age of fantasy. He writes a blog at the reality sandwiched dot com site. Finally I want it. Introduce and say a few words about my friend and colleague Henry Jenkins. When I saw this hadn't seen him weak and -- was the cited him. Filled me with. Dismay implementation not because there's anything about and reduction caused dismay. But because I realized. That this was his last semester at MIT. And I'm sure that there will be many. Folks who share my feelings about one an astonishing resource for the institute in reaching consisted. But I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that in his twenty years year he spent 20 years and am -- I've never seen faculty members and in my. -- in more than forty years in the profession who had a larger impact on a wider range of activities connected to his institution. Then Henry Jenkins he has some of you know he's a very distinguished scholar the author of a number of influential and seminal books including most recently convergence culture. Where old and new media collide a book that has been influential in Hollywood as well was -- in the scholarly community and -- even if it. Even begun to affect programming in certain ways. He is also a teacher of immense gifts and is 11 of them one of MIT's most admired teachers. He's also been -- for a long time now been headmaster of one of four undergraduate. -- want to -- dormitories colleges. And in that capacity has affected undergraduate life even more deeply and fully and then a normal teacher would do. In addition to that of course he is the genius behind the graduate program in comparative media studies. And probably half the people in this room have been directly and then officially effective in reaching tunes ideas but his generosity. His. Powers as a teacher at thinker. I wanted to take this opportunity and it's more we we still have some months thank goodness before we actually have to say farewell. But I wanted to signal my sense that when Henry Jenkins leaves MIT. And -- A gaping at this will be created that. No single professor ever be able to fill. Henry is currently the MIT. And as you know the founder and most of you know the founder and director of the graduate program in comparative media studies. That was launched in 1999. He will be even Mikey this summer. To go to USC. And that's why limitations should be. Modify qualified because clearly Henry's going to what is a very wonderful and exciting job and I'm sure he'll be able to continue his good work there. At USC he will hold joint appointment in the Annenberg school for communication and the school of cinema and in the school of cinema arts. And he is soon. He is he. I'm looking here to seek to boost the and he he would he would become what is called the pro posts professor of communications. At USC a distinguished endowed chair. With. With that let me introduce Henry and the and take over the event and there."

" After an introduction like the world to know how to think back into the role of the moderator but. I'm delighted to join you'd day thank David for the -- introductions -- panel -- been deeply looking forward. What I ask is each of the speakers just introduce themselves a little bit further and described their relationship to the top. Of the back in fort. Exchange I've mapped out some questions for them in advance which will go for world growth for our. Open the floor. Q you guys you last hopefully equally smart perceptive. Questions. We're moving toward a more participatory culture we welcome your participation. So that that's. Fittingly I guess I."

" Moved from an MIT speaker to a USC speaker and asked her on two. Start things off there on -- they were gloating that you SC has Henry Jenkins coming our way. Who are the fools who let this man you know. We tend to cherry pick from around the country and around the world and so that's one reason only exciting it's either. And especially excited about the center. Within which I work it's called in Norman -- center it's based at the Annenberg school. And it's very unique. It's it's an academic unit we have academics have a lot of faculty involved with us -- students working there. The way to teach classes we put together really sort of entrepreneurial projects. That trying to improve media improve entertainment and sometimes use entertainment for educational purposes. Also. Where activists were trying to find ways in order to harness the power of entertainment. In order to do something good. For the country for the world we have few projects like and I can talk about the little later. But one of the things I think -- most famous for a -- center is our understanding our commentary -- research projects. On the intersection between politics and entertainment. I don't think I have to convince anybody that there's an intersection -- I think some people think it's the worst thing that's ever happened to public discourse and civil society. On the other people's scene Howell maybe we can take advantage of that intersection on land another. Regardless we have to understand it it's it's a very powerful sort of convergence. There's a lot of anecdotal information about it everywhere in every imaginable discipline. Throughout the newspapers. You know in the media. But very few people have good research on just exactly in one way. Does entertainment affect politics in what way it -- a person's political preferences for instance affect the way they. Become an audience for some sort of entertainment content. These are the kinds of questions that we were trying to answer at least start to address. With the survey. It's called Zogby leaders sent her politics and cancer bank. And I have some slides instantly in -- I'll share with you about that. Decent."

" The yeah go ahead. David this one lamented in terms of my duty covering the Oscars and your -- showed toward me I'm. I spent time attacking -- you are and yes Kate Winslet the kids from -- again I don't know that it was in the more -- or less enlightened and say your last please send an hour it's it's. It's it's it's -- terrible duty we're here because. The then diagram a popular culture and political culture it's. Become a circle and I -- I was watching the state of the union the other night. And there were congressman Twitter reading the events that three things I think. Congress has been -- on time before it's gonna bird. Sickened nearly as my congressman I'd rather have a list in the in Twitter you don't need him imitating. What's simply say to me I don't I don't really need to see his little bubbles about -- entered is. Everybody's watching this probably surprised except him and be totally soundness. I mean I think we -- in the last election. On an -- let's just keep. We're going next and I love that I get to order Henry around. -- the only time in my life. What what are things and I want to talk about is among a standout. Advocates and self important because they can't see I'm. What won't."

" What do you Obama guys worked out his. We'll give you. Access to our hats to our -- we want as your information. That's we and that's that's commercial impaired. Over and over three is always in exchange for years. -- I think like that text messaging and a vice president you know all the mainstream media so it's complete failure we've found out what together for a million names that. How much money do you think they pulled those people. I think you have to acknowledge that friends is more important and supporters if you pick up two point five million FaceBook friends. Dad is much more because network effects because. You have a deeper knowledge of the -- Even nomenclature that they overlaid with these in my below that it. High eighties -- custody and personal relationship. And I think what was what was cool as they raised more money. By order of magnitude than ever. And they -- very traditional ways I don't know that'll be that way the next. You know they spent over 250 million dollars network. So it was. When he harvested and one platform was then then I spent and others think it's you guys look towards 2012. -- look at dispense side. Harvest. Is is -- you -- grow. You want to say about it you'll get they start with that database they made it into a base. Now there at the White House -- just have a base they have a database. Used seen the first big hurdle. Obama comes up against. If he's having a battle with newspapers and he's going to be able to go around communicate with his guys and say you know what again right. You have to look at pictures of what was going -- for no YouTube. FaceBook is just across the street I was. No hop well. Part of what happened is just amazed me once the campaign. Put out -- of their duties -- me of their own videos. And -- access that we could not have in the did something called four days in Denver as it showed Obama warming up. Obama with a fairly in any network would have killed killed killed. Have they can access they have leverage that we as covers student. I think. People say well you know it's in the web unless it's you know Graham again Kaczur out of a tree -- following a trampoline nobody's gonna watch it. What was the biggest video for the Obama campaign it was a 37 man. And annotated lecture and race so it depends on what year. Tying him out one I went to both conventions. 15000 media members but you like in this anywhere. The LA times Chicago Tribune. Tribune -- used to be. No footprint and all nothing whereas political at forty people -- and eleven people all daily ties head at ten people so the number of reporters didn't change. But there there identity approach -- certainly did when things that happened there was Katy -- who's been imprisoned behind an acre desk and snap in doing. Big numbers left the anchor desk went gorilla with a camera adapted the tools of the insurgency. It and in doing so came up with great coverage rehabilitated. Her career money seminal moment at the democratic convention decides -- Craig Newmark. Of Craig's list as standard time to realize kid just to my rate was like blog dinner conversation that. You know it doesn't getting -- of them yes that's creditor to each other in the -- About it. But -- else again here. That the -- do you guys -- health dollars you moralist tilted to rates she was citizen journalists floor. Oh and she came up with the bitter remarks and almost not. Obama. Stride and guys are afterwards and -- we take weight she senses can be a lot more army in 2012. Presents a kind of asymmetry that I think campaigns are going to have to deal with. The did the miracle of that campaign was just to watch and what's an organism. Organize itself they created -- template. And so. Things like phone baking which is a god -- nightmare for every national campaign. Self organized. People took ten games the list. They were able to take what they wanted and -- and in the -- but they're without significant management and oversight from the campaign. Yeah a lot of blended media matches -- CNN I was there with a lot of video. And CNN was -- citizen video from wherever they went on. What do things that happen I think early early -- is is. It became kind of style thing or a -- experts who who you are. And you didn't cause somebody it's -- we need your support we need your vote he said he had you seen this video by well I am police and it's -- to turn. Think again. -- What I want it just type about is is is is affected. What it meant to be a supporter of Obama went beyond your political identity. You you you could be a fan of Saturday Night Live which beat Uga fan. Tina Faye Joyce last week let's allowed to be like -- you want. And that was an expression of your culture -- identity became party your political. Identity certain means to develop I mean when I was at that convention and -- snow machine you know he knew she was can be. Kind of driving her own path. To the American public in the same way and it didn't once they created these images and I think Henry has done wonderful work with the -- He must Casilla and so Joe The Plumber was one thing that Joe The Plumber became. A million other things mashed up from whatever way people want it to their own hands when every campaigns put out there is no evidence can be. Used in an annotated. Windward to more. Oh you know what this is this is a cool. This. There's some cool quote that Rahm Emmanuel made this come about now he's the chief of staff. I thought it was a really smart thing to say about the -- are pretty because. I think what we one Enron debt that the -- conventions historically done is. All the big papers would come in at 10 o'clock sort of scripts -- valley streets and confidence. What are we gonna do. -- For one thing we're all up at 7 -- Marty we're all too busy making media to consume Indymedia where running around."

" With the likened to go to our heads cut and as I watched as apparatus of citizen generated content. I YouTube videos used to their own hands mashed up -- that this is amazing that you could make it feels needs. And it's acting mass. And what a great -- tool for marketing where a great tool for democracy. Or if you're so inclined when agreed to offer access as well so I do think that it's not on green. And wonderful. --"

" I'm just gonna talk about. Well when one thing actually is. Is the miracle of the you -- lose this -- it's him it's -- I was only Acela in the way ups or is having these. Like big -- cuts and I wrote. -- You head Obama girl which is one kind of expression and then you had Derek has -- who is at that guy. Who got captured making impassioned plea on behalf of the Obama -- have video that wouldn't. -- Obama girl didn't vote according to news reports. The miracle. The miracle."

" And the reason. That the youth vote made an impact is not what they did not the activity but added that they did in mind it's what they did they went. And voted and when we look back I think it's going to be what we're gonna look at us. How they raise some money here how'd they get so many people gates. It's how did they take their behavior and make it work. And they did it by making voting. Seemed like something that was cool Henry and others have pointed out I mean does come at the Oscars where. The polls and participation. Endless we. You know Poland to the American Idol with the expectation we're gonna -- play -- role. And if we just watch for sure of the greatest. Greatest drama in recent American democracy. We would expect at the end as a citizenry as a culture to have an opportunity to say. I like that guy it's just it's now --"

" The process well slept like. There's a moment from the recent presidential campaign which -- stayed with me. In IMAX and -- this example that the web so that the titles are fine but. I understand them. Because that's the text book walked -- the."

" That -- politics. Been taught. To me play. That's a lesson she learned when the Republicans were doing that same things over back in the ninety night. So I understand it and what you're running for the presidency. That you've got to expect. You know you just."

" All right you know as a brilliant move by Barack Obama heated has gotten beaten up. Actually and this was his come back. After. A bruising debate. And in his brilliant move for number reasons one is it's signaled that he could rise above criticism in separate himself from the politics as usual when he used it as a rhetorical strategy to do that. Is signified that he understood and appreciated popular culture particularly youth culture it's a great moment if you get if you see it from wider -- who stands up first. Yeah so these young people and the old effort to locate items stand up as well I guess it's good I don't know what that means -- mean something. It also distanced himself from his opponent on a cultural level that is Hillary Clinton. I would held press conferences and hearings condemning popular youth culture like Grand Theft Auto. But also present past him and think about. The use of for example rap music by Hillary Clinton's husband -- and sister soldier during the campaign the Bill Clinton was running in which he. Demonized and it was a way to distance himself from popular culture. -- it also is brilliant because it then got. As Henry well knows it got. Remixed matched up with viral and reproduced when -- typed in for Google to pull this down I could pick from one of adding hundreds of different versions of this com. It also reminded us just how unbelievably cool Barack Obama is. And the moment really stayed with me and it also got me thinking a lot about the relationship between politics and popular culture and how -- shifting and also how I think politicos which went to the left out of my pilots are going to activists it's a seventeen. Is help politicos can start to think about popular culture come in a productive way. Traditionally these in two ways for political us to think about. Popular culture. One is that the pessimistic line in the past mr. -- whether liberal or conservative go something like this. Popular culture is at best -- distraction from politics and at worst it's a contagion to be quarantined. And not elated from media literacy. And eradicated. Like to circuses of imperial Rome popular culture distracts us from the sorts this. Thinking and reasoning necessary -- an informed populace and democracy. In other words were watching American Idol when we should be reading foreign affairs. The worse the values expressed in popular culture and for those on the left its materialism consumerism racism sexism. For the right -- hedonism immorality in religiosity. These values in fact the public mind making any sort of moral political community impossible. We're still. As political thinkers and Plato and Aristotle complained. Pop culture speaks to the emotions the heart and the gut. A maybe a bit lower would there be homer wind instruments. Or rap music. -- politics ought to be irrational affair of the sober mind. So that's and a 11 approach the other approaches sort of -- exact opposite which is the the populist approach. In this approach on this uncritical celebration of -- pop culture as popular politics. This is more traditionally thought of in terms of things Nick Folk culture is not the voice of the people where subculture is. You know punk -- put a revolutionary formation which I think I argued in a book once but any case this perspective makes its way out the wider world as well. For conservatives -- NASCAR is to become the very expression of certain rugged individualism. Tied with superior industrial can do. Or for liberals announced that world music come becomes. A popular articulation of people's appreciation for diversity global unity. Regardless of political persuasion. Pop culture in itself. Is a fully constitute expression of popular will from this perspective. And it is most expression as most extreme to sort of cultural populism substitutes culture for politics. And other words politics kind of drops off and only culture is the thing which is examined so watching American Idol is democracy doesn't lead to democracy doesn't convert to a democracy but actually is a replacement for democracy that's something -- celebrated. But an offer another model. -- for thinking about the relationship to him pop culture and politics that Saddam would on the Acela on the way up. Obama came up with mobilization would probably come up with a better a better word -- I think that. Yet its -- my thinking it's been really heavily influenced in this -- two -- Antonio ground she was a kind Communist who died muscling its jails. And the other is Stuart hall who is a west Indian British academic -- is still alive and well. And although you'd recently retired and open university in the UK. What they did was I think really value -- at Walter Lippman and there the young -- those to them what they did is they turn their concern away from whether or not popular culture is political anti political and itself. But re frame the question -- I think it's a very useful way which is. How can be how can and how is pop culture used politically that if house culture mobilized in the service of politics. Now this mobilization we've practiced in a pretty superficial level that if Obama reference and pop culture and a political speech. But also can be practiced in a much more extensive and I think productive manner which in this Connecticut throw out some ideas now to follow up later we want. Arm because as the populist understand. Popular culture express its popular ideals desires and dreams sometimes nightmares. And initially popular culture is remarkably utopian. A -- Jon Stewart joking before Obama what's their present them he said well how do you know when the drama you're watching set in the future. Because we have a black president. Okay and today's question is what happens if we really get a black president will be in the future. But any case it's it it's easy he would he's nailing was the utopian element of popular culture. But as pessimists argue. Pop culture isn't politics is an idealized nation in a fantasy. Would Allen argues it's exactly the fantasy element of popular culture it's sort of fantastic gore element which makes pop culture so useful to politics. That is pop culture. Is it really unique laboratory of popular fantasy the can be explored and understood mobilized in an actual -- to political practice but this isn't easy and -- not have a blanket application and can do is popular culture is shot through with all sorts of contradictory. Messages and desires and Grand Theft Auto for example. Is a misogynist to hyper violent fantasy. But it's also a dream of autonomy and control or celebrity media acknowledges adulation and -- that's aristocracy image but it also. Technologies are profound desire to be seen and recognized it is not to be invisible world. Every McDonald's advertisement for example arm. Wrapped up in sort of this bad eating habits being pushed upon us it's also an image of the daily community life. In each case there's utopian element to dream of what a better world could be. Then and I think this is -- pop culture least mean matters politically. Is pop culture is great fabulous wide open repository of popular fantasy. I think it's the job of politics in a way to actually look at these fantasies. And make the reality. --"

" So we have some interest in opening provocations. I direct one place we clearly want to started discussions around the figure of Obama you -- your party spoken fairly explicitly about Obama. On your -- on David writers like you have the phrase Obama has a brand and I might be a productive way to think. About the campaign you know and what way was Obama a brand and arguably he was not on television candidate he was not. A digital cannon and as a brand eggs -- media candidate who spreads. His message across every available media platform and I know you were focusing on that during the campaign and wrote some really interest and stuff about it so."

" If I were -- marketer I would look at. That this sort of they began with an ideal. And just only that this substance. In -- me we was created only very slowly and was. Was was brought together so your head. I mean -- you are obviously start with. You know a lot of people said Barack Hussein Obama not the best dream to run for US president. But outward Obama its randomness its fullness. It's sort of distinction. It it'll lead -- something called Obama -- where it became a source of not just political identity but cultural identity and so we knew them. When you said you're for Obama it's at a couple things about you. I'm ready for the future. I'm ready for this. Time when we're going to have president he's done. Happy to be flat. And the other thing that's sort of set about you is I'm down in what this means. You know what he's. Tied him -- and I think there's been this. Given what has happened in the reporters saw him moral ethical -- we have no political beliefs that he'll ever discernment. I do think that there was. It palpable hunger among people we've seen what sort of crusty old white guys can do. And I think it was yes less about race and more about young. And everything he did. He demonstrate. I mean he what was his big concern went to one can keep my black prairie. Can I keep it and then when they came up with this amazing Blackberry. It that he could keep something I think if you weren't a few biscuits simply. Identify with they asked about recent idea that you push button and this. And it turns into an automobile. And and you push button -- that offensive for you -- me go you know. I think he's funny that makes me. And what we can't what he did is he had a trade dress as a popular culture's. Figures an admittedly you know certain Hollywood -- well I am and everybody together ground gave them Hilo affect. But he's the first -- That. And understood. It. I mean when he was really thinking about how can they take something that'll make it big putting go to C mark injuries and you know and said. What is it about. You know our politicians are all. Interest to deny -- web you know we got. You don't let you got one guy who can't use. Email and the other guy who understands. That it is. And I Henry has type deal loses the black box that you could just pull up. To this thing now it's he was smart -- have to say I have a very small break and it hasn't been dented. How can -- make it go viral using. I convert it a variety of platforms in the convergence culture. To vote increase funding for further. An advertising but also to create. And an access network effects to build my grand in this something robust and mighty might be -- parties little's beside the point. That might not meet the New York Times is important as they once were. Indicated cut his own path to --"

" So. I wanted to send us the Stephen think a little bit about the the utopian side and tonight I keep thinking of the shepherd Farley graphic. You know with hope underneath here in Boston -- doing. And exhibited the Institute of Contemporary Art no doubt probably bubbled up and got as a result of that graphic you know. But this is the guy was an original guerrilla graffiti guy you've seen -- during the -- around him giants got a policy. Underneath the bridges but that hope icon you know really speaks to that role -- past."

" Yeah amended there's two ways to read that one is the very cynical way which is. You know again this is will want to -- and -- about 1923. How politics works. If you float this sort of empty symbol. The patriotism or be -- hope. And then everybody attacks is everybody in the populist -- their own particular and very heartfelt. Emotions too that what might be hope for you. Might be different for you my prediction for you but we can all agree on hope. And then he sort of trying to now that's the sort of cynical manufacture consent -- want them as tuchman 9020 straight. But I also think that yet it does work cynically but somehow Obama was able to. How to describe this. But not betray the individual contrast with his generalized hope and kind of allowed becomes almost empty this is what the brand is actually very good way of describing a sort of empty thing of which we could all just apply what we wanted to to the same time not come across the stake in empty claim. One of things that I think he did really well is that he read. That there's lots of types of popular culture out there and lots of types of ideals out there. There's -- Democrat for years and years seniors have basically read popular culture as a way that the right has wanted them to see particles that country and western is popular. Rap music and alternative music is somehow elitist. Or urban or something of that nature com. In what was fast but Obama and he just went out and said you know you know I'm of mixed race latte sipping Irvin. Guy who likes basketball and and hip hop and to come. It uses these speeches that the country has to jail I know he did it well obviously he's not stupid. Because it is a big tent out there that day but a lot of you know -- you listen to country must also listen to help up eleven detention he he was able to say. Look that there is actually a sort of competition of culture out there and a lot of ways and you can actually align yourself we -- This other thing which is just as popular as crossovers. Into what is considered the --"

" American culture -- Culture real American people -- There's human is all about the competition culture our relates to a political case. Obama discussion here at it was very interesting to see a certain popular cultural literacy plan in the campaigns. It can be very dangerous for political campaigns to utilized liberties and to engage in popular music it's so easy to make -- And Obama currently -- And McCain desperately trying to actually. Make Obama look bad for being so in sync with popular culture and being so popular -- He made that and that featured Paris Hilton and it totally ended up biting him on yes. And Paris Hilton ended up coming up with a great viral video that made her look a lot smarter than anybody thought she was. And sell it if your very -- Cook let's is really stupid. It was good writing -- by harassing members she memorized what she said -- energy policy. But. But it's it's it's just interesting to to watch it was something that I was I was looking at very closely in this campaign because. Popular culture of celebrity. These things -- tools their weapons. They can backfire. But the site recently. Only channel I --"

" It. -- I can't just I just -- this fighting here for fun you know politics popular culture gap okay you can go to the next time. We did a survey. Was -- international. And that I think it was a really smart survey because what we. While we decided this that it doesn't really do you much good to ask people what their political ideology is. Ask the political scientist at their political ideology as they might be able to have some sort of coherent response -- you. But generally people just have a lot of very deep feelings about a lot of complicated issues that they don't necessarily know how to articulate. What that adds up to do what they are as a political -- And so we developed a very sophisticated political psychology as part of the survey. Was 42 statements about all of the really scary issues you can imagine asking about environmental ism abortion. Diplomacy that war is military action. All the kinds of things that are hot but hot button issues in American politics and we did a statistical analysis of the way in which people responded. To. To those questions. And we checked to see whether there -- any groups that emerged from one to see if -- cohorts in America and that sort of held together. By the way in which they responded to these questions these statements. We didn't care what they call themselves they can call themselves libertarian make -- say they were registered Democrats. We asked them that stuff in another section the survey but we didn't care what they said we just want to see where they might fall in some sort of continuum. We didn't care how many groups would come out of it. When we did the statistical analysis that goes -- clusters are when we had three groups. The largest group which sounded conservative to last in terms of the way they respond to it to these. Political questions -- called the red group. On the second largest group we called the blue group -- dates sounded very liberal in the way they responded to these issues. And then there's a very murky middle group has about 24% of the country this is a national Americans surveyed 3200. Surveyed. And we call them purples because they had these sort of shared values between the reds and blues was very hard to figure out who they were very interesting group. And then the same set of people that we diagnosed their politics we asked them hundreds of questions about entertainment. The kind of music -- but kind of movies to go see this last summer what's your favorite TV show. When you have spare time what do you like to did you like to read books to elect surf the plan. Look any game franchises in your favorite ones lots and lots and lots of questions like this. And also a few questions where we asked them what they not about the convergence between. Entertainment politics. So we found is political clusters or very significant this is the red cluster an island just at that's led at this -- could take a look at some of that. Entertainment preferences among that group. And we checked to see if there was if there are also a strong correlation between the political groups and a particular way of consuming entertainment. And it turned out there was. The shocking thing is that there are so few overlaps among the three groups. That. What we are finding where these sort of entertainment and mediate get countless. Where if you fell into the blue group you most likely hated most of the entertainment preferences of the red group and vice versa. If you like to certain television genre that's. And you're most likely belongs to one group and not another that was probably the summit that you couldn't line excel. It was it was very distressing actually because one of the main reasons I wanted to quickly surveyed together. Was to find cultural touchstone it's you know. Entertainment products out there that bring people together across ideological divide. They weren't that -- and a shot. House was one of the few cultural. How long day YRA. Equally favored among purples reds and blues and also across almost every single demographic cabin had just about every -- you can imagine. Race gender sex where you live in the country what kind of citizen you think you are. They'll like house but there're so few of those that it was quite distressing actually to me but it made for that press releases. I've just taken out that the portion of the data today. About entertainment preferences since we're really talking about the relationship between politics and entertainment. And here are few of the red -- happens -- let's go to the next slide. Couples were very very interesting these were people who actually consume a lot more entertainment than the other two groups. They tend to watch just about everything on prime time television. These of their favorite shows line order sixty minutes and CSI. A conservative person in the red group wouldn't be caught dead watching sixth amendments. They really like reality programming or at least that the only group that's willing to admit it. They love the we. And Super Mario Kart and dance dance revolution we thought this is really great. The we had also asked some question about whether they ever insulate entertainment that was made outside of the United States and they said never. So it was very interesting that there is this sort of unwillingness to it -- All are this reluctance to believed that they can actually enjoy something the wasn't created in their -- country. Go ahead the next time. Now -- as you'll see I have a lot marked preference shares listed on this -- and partly that's because of the limitations of the survey. I was very rigorous not only selecting entertainment content that was most popular like the most the best selling game franchises. The most popular shows from the most recent Nielsen ratings like -- find. The biggest blockbusters. -- wanted to make shirt that we were asking about. The entertainment but the most number of people that most likely seen -- It turns out that a lot of -- most popular popular culture in this country is quite appealing to blues. Rest -- like much of it at all. If I had been able to include in our survey questions about knee she entertainment. But golf now work you know all those places that the Republican National Committee decided that they need to advertise their candidate. I would probably get a lot more entertainment preferences for rent. So this is very revealing in -- itself that. When we're looking at -- most popular popular culture. We are looking at a culture those preferred I want political group over another. -- This is something that Henry picked up on and one of his blog entries on his site and -- My favorite part of the survey really where I got to ask questions about what they thought about this convergence between entertainment politics. How often do you find yourself enjoying entertainment that reflects the value is other than your own. That's point 6% of -- that's one in four of them said they never find themselves -- entertainment but doesn't reflect their size is on electric scale I mean you didn't have to choose never. And only 9% of purples and 10% of blues agree. -- we asked do you find yourself entertained by things that you believe are in bad taste. 45%. Of France almost learned to read that they never find themselves entertained by things that they believe in bad taste and only 21% of blues and 36% of purples. Agreed with with that statement that they never. Find themselves entertainment something in that case. And this isn't really he sort of data points. Because it's not just that were arguing that if people like certain representations. -- it's because those mapping representations reflect their politics reflect their life. Reflect what they think the world should be about not drop. Actually there's an entire. Sort of audience. That the hungry for representations that -- aren't that are unfamiliar. That are horrible. That are examples of what not to do. And is a very different sort of relationship to representations then and other groups have. Excellent. We asked them when a safe spot. That you can find political messages. In fictional TV shows and movies and full question was. Much more belabor it was like setting aside news setting aside documentaries. Setting aside auction house. Do you think this stuff contains political messages and a very large majority said absolutely. So there's not some sensibility among the American public that -- popular culture that's not political. It is. And an excellent. One thing that we're very curious about the -- center is whether people learn. From fictional representations we have a huge projects funded by the Centers for Disease Control to get accurate health information. In CD shelves. Because the CDC is found lo and behold they were horrified to find this -- people watch primetime TV they believe it. A doctor on staff those facts aren't necessarily chat. So they give us money to try to make shirt -- that pressure -- these television. Producers and writers actually get it right. So here we asked how often do you learn about political issues when you watch fictional fictional TV shows -- films and a majority of American public. So that they it. Excellent I think there might be at the end yes I dislike that in for fun."

" So David not David you've both been paying close attention of this it's why we -- that your reactions there. What its implications might be career. Proprietors. Are actually so -- and he -- it. Something that David said he said earlier that cultural identity gates is gonna merge with political identity and I think what I love about this last sort of charge these road throughout their agenda is I think that that's what that speaks to is not that people. I'm guessing. That people are finding politics in their fictional entertainment it's what they define as politics is increasingly cultural that is. Who loves who. What sort of things today aching joints in these fictional world what sort of attitudes to they have about their neighbors and so on and so forth those very things which would nationally have thought of politics if you look at politics and Oxford English dictionary. Simply don't. Include. -- I think it's partly about this expansive notion of what we think as political sisters to two -- two. Enter into the cultural --"

" I do think that there is. Part of the problem that we're having it is a culture right now is there are core expertise is consumption. And so. If we don't make step but we're good it consuming step consumption begins to be a metric. And who we higher end. So you had this huge. Movement a day you could somehow if you -- to the better gross tree story and spend more. Money and leave your food that was a form of voting or political expression. I think in the same way. If you're willing to admit that you equal rights in town selling that your sort of making a statement of who you're we both remarked. When we -- a host -- their."

" And that the and the blues no on the reds. Is cycle what is house three -- into authoritarian. And it'd -- you know what. When it comes to certain. Mink holes of culture and this is what the entertainment industry is looking towards the -- back where everybody. Can find something that they want and I think. A big part of what happened. With. With Obama. Is is what you talked about what you talked about it he -- a vessel pick -- filled up with people's. Aspirations it became a cultural marker which is. I listen I watch The Daily Show. And I lake. I mean I called my daughter earlier who said. A junior. At. University of Wisconsin and I said nova its -- and what do you think she said I think he is just can kill his life. He said the biggest knitwear and mine floor just came out to me and -- I'm really into since he and this old demon guy. To -- and so what she was sent seen. Is. Just as it it AA is as as a handbag in a marker or consumption of his show. That this was a way to communicate that you're with that you that you knew. What you are doing and I find it. You can. Like his super -- I had. At 1012 people over you we were telling him about the Oscars. People identified over and over oscars were such a great example. People's tendency."

" So worst most appalling thing I've ever seen they can't get -- right at two other people just. Oh and I do think that we can then. To use. These I think. Large events as a -- in which we see ourselves right -- sells."

" Thought about this protective but it is about. Oh is -- is this event and it exactly Davis talked about which is sort of completion of politics and culture the idea that. A politician can become a brand into an empty brand in which we find ourselves in like we find ourselves and among Levi's where what have you. Is just absolute degradation of politics or is it actually protect. One view yeah it's just cut this negative and this music is these Halloween. We've learned for better for worse to express who we are. And our identities and our pleasures in our desires and so actually what we should be looking for is those people to do with integrity that is. This is the game and -- gonna do well we can do badly you can do with honor or not honor. And stop holding up this idea or idealized sort of enlightenment. Vision of the rational public which is going to make you know decisions based on cold calculation and so on and so forth. Culture of the risk of --"

" Using popular culture and celebrity is trivializing something that's otherwise important. Right that's one thing that gets people so up in arms and -- actually shot out from an audience at a horrible thing. When things are trivial last important things are -- last that's a huge problem when substance is somehow. Undermines. Because you have added some glitz factor that's a huge problem. If you are able to suck some extra people under the tent just because you've got Bruce Springsteen to perform a song before you spoke. That's probably a good thing. So you have to mobilize this stuff with and take pretty. And with care and you have to -- brand manager of sorts yet to figure out what's going to drop the right people land so that they will be opened and interested in my message your message may be a health message for instance like what we do at the Lear center. -- can be -- Camilla a political candidate's message can also be. You know a proponent of evolution is trying to explain to. You know a very angry audience while Wyatt is the evolution not to be time that school scientists true. Need to use the tricks of entertainment and popular culture in order to get people into the tent and get their message heard. So it's it's often marvel method than content. And it can be used in the in the worst the most horrible in an unimaginably. Bad ways that it can also be used to be very effective."

" What it lets remember that it's not just a tool of the hip young. Kennedy well as in 4."

" And in and into the doesn't what was George Bush really selling. The can he win those elections and style points you can. You would never look at and say well there's amendments one him in charge of the -- he's -- so which. Robin green -- that game but I'd say. Get John Kerry with a gigantic step up his backside. And then you get this guys -- is Combs through his belt loops who knows how to wear a pair of boots who can push -- and and and it's it's like. -- you want to I identify with is it. You know John Q anywhere in the house by each of words in -- two billion dollar -- night. Is a guy that knows that again and horrors and doesn't look stupid when he did you couldn't. You can happen I think if you think."

" Bat. -- 2000 when -- Al Gore was now. -- of -- that style that popular cultural approach that he was dealing. Which means an end template from an earlier era. -- that we're frankly -- right borrowed from Ronald Reagan but I think. Worked for him very well so it's that. There's there's a huge part of this that is not new it's just being beaten its its its encounter even network. Affect and you never know which way it's going because people are open arms with that side of those guys fist pumping. And personally. Brought me an enormous pleasure put when they did it when I sat on the cover of the New York you just don't know what ways things are gonna."

" Bring it back even further to 1933. And yet think about FDR's fireside speech which is of course when things it Obama's recent speeches and compared to. And it here's FDR using this new medium of radio and he's thinking -- style completely and utterly and what's insane about that speech. -- encourage -- we go and download and listen to it. It is. That he doesn't sacrifice substance and fact he actually. Use his style. His rich voice hum his his this stuff is actually scripted by. Playwright Robert Sherwood. The edge. Couple poet's work compartments -- that's very stylized speech. But he very plainly described how the banking system works and so I think that oftentimes who start thinking about style and substance as you either have one or the other -- Abd Al Gore where you have to empty the rhetoric of George W. Bush. But actually I think that FDR did both and I think actually that's that's what Obama is doing as well I think he's actually. Pulling those two together and we we don't have to sacrifice one for the other."

" Connectors as few brief question. Nobody except you're. -- blues like anything for the pencil and a millionaire just as a hundred million when the Academy Award. -- if it wasn't just one cohort that pushed him over the -- or was. You and I both care about."

" This is that is good. I must say I hated son -- went -- there and so disappointed and it I -- the only president now."

" All. Yeah any oil policy now with a sentimental slop. I think it's the sentimentality. Great movies have half. It's -- on our in place and I think that that was really appealing to a very broad audience I think that there's. Summoning people really do deeply believe that there are universal values. And that certain stories can tap into them like Titanic for instance in the nation you box office numbers NCC. This kind of story resonates with people who have actually no connection to that culture whatsoever. And I think it's very simplistic and it's simplistic to claim that there must be a universal story sends people sometimes respond the same cultural object. And it has much more complicated than that let my presumption that's what was going on assignment leaner but still it's quite shocking. But it -- the after."

" Pushing a slightly different directions the role of comedy in the political discourse of yours will probably want to cross striking. Features were they were talking and Obama girl on YouTube or serie Nightline securing -- Palin nor the role of daily show and articulate values of generation. It seems to me that this course of comedy is profoundly different as a way of framing political debates. Into the melodramatic discourse of its morning in America. The daisy girl you know the sort of classic political advertising between men think of us propaganda. And it's deeper appealed to sentimentality. And emotion that's cuts directive which you were to -- about. It's long gone so what are we think is sick what do we make up the role of comedy in this campaign even John McCain with a celebrity cycle was trying for certain start key. Comedy it Obama's expense that didn't go over very well but it was still an attempt to translate the campaign issues and to. Satire rather and to calico."

" I think that. I think that you're right in that things have changed. A great killed because if you think back to. I don't know -- 88 what was political comedy it was Mike Dukakis. In. Case. With that Obama. I'm certain key pick and then Massachusetts people that you really aren't from here."

" The case that they present you've got a lot of --"

" That that thing is when things that I think has happened is so we years like off kilter take funny is hard. He is really really tired and when you've got. This huge. Yeah you've more or less empowered all these people cheap ubiquitous video. Technology to films that cheap ubiquitous stuff to me manipulate what. And a lot of what and we talked about is you've got this an accuracy. Of their -- keep -- You know while those -- is -- objectives that. Now you get every kid. With photos. With two. They can do it. And it it just gets better and better as it goes up the -- I mean think of how moribund Saturday Night Live was in the culture. When this election started no one why shouldn't and they got it -- of oxygen. This realized that they had. I wrote him back into the American consciousness -- wasn't just politicians. Hitching himself there was only one story trust me -- them you writes about other things is there really was only one story. I am I am booked they can not -- to a great -- I didn't even care about my book no. How could you ever in in dramatic -- and comedic terms how could you ever come up with. -- you know you never. Wouldn't be able to answer err I mean it she typed in women's magazines straightaway into. All all sorts of things we hadn't seen before him that the quality. Of political humor. In this go round with the -- or daily show. Or the kid in his basement is alive this season just all in mind let's. It was funny."

" But he also extinguish the type of humor which it was satire -- irony and I think if that's actually access. It's a different type of humor because it's a human it doesn't tell you what to think it actually it's funny because you have to fill in the blank that if it tells you. That this is not what books if this is not what I'm thinking this is not what I believe. And then the audience has to figure out that space that that that that place of this is what the comic really thinks this is what I really think and there's a form of communion because it deeply political that the humor this is what swift who's using it. In that it actually does create a community of meaning. Because you have to kind of both come up with the punchline which is there but also I think it's it's a democratic form -- a lot of ways because it is about opening space it's not about telling you what to think about leaving the space saying. Okay enough to -- and I love that sort of style of humor and that was the predominant style of humor during this this this to I think that was part of the political excitement a lot of ways is that the humor. Helped. With a certain that the democratic feeling of this election."

" May I have a slide to say that's related to this and he popped it up. Get a lot of calls the police on her from press who want to talk about. Apple we -- as a young people these day is -- read in the news and they're just they're just watching John -- And and so -- very interested to find that the results of this survey I was pew research project it wasn't going to earlier center and and one thing that they do I think on an annual basis as they do these -- give these quizzes to people -- to find out how much you know about current affairs. And then look at knowledge levels and here they looked at knowledge levels and then they asked these same people where it was they like to get their news. And it turned out that the people with the highest knowledge level where the people who like to get their news from the daily shell and the -- Barack or. And one of the reasons this makes sense is because the joke is sound not funny if you don't know what the hell they're talking about. CS -- research -- yet already read the paper already kind of know what's going on and then you watch the comedy shell and you get the tell. Now it's not to say that it necessarily makes you a more sophisticated political thinker and fat -- say just among my own sort of personal community of friends. I get a little irritated when my friends -- to pretend like. The joke that John -- told last night as the political perspective that they have as if they came up with bankruptcy. So it's sort of a shortcut to a sophisticated kind of political some by. As of of ripping off let smarter people who think about the -- de icing on your TV. So it's not necessarily. You know the most beneficial and educational method of teaching people about politics. But engagement is crucial does -- give and take. There's there's knowledge that's required the for the joke makes any sense at all and so I practice is a really interesting data sent."

" Plus keep -- it's yeah it's great you know radiance with young people. Went through the room. Double and I think it was to get -- aired live. So they can -- followed the big story but also so that when -- that date a guy and he indicated -- in in. -- shows that they were not meant to show ingredients it's like that in voting reflects the voting was up huge."

" Can -- you ask the panelists include you have enough who got addicted to ticker on CNN. The political the political elected -- updated every hour two hours -- me that's an email to defeat. Two it's never mind. Yeah and what they'll look at that trade dress in that room. You get John king in the giant tried to get the picture underneath them but is just and it went on things I think it for me -- McCain on a soap opera. I mean and it became sort of constant nine -- it was. Like it was a soap opera got fascinated with -- updated every 3545. Minute the political ticker. And I do I do wonder again is that engaging me or is this turns into a soap opera and -- I haven't figured that out in time."

" We'll soap operas are among among the most engaging entertainment funds known to man. Death and then it is the best place to disseminate health information just let you know. -- to seek out people five days a week they can have fairy complicated diseases and you can give them very complex that nice about it over six months period of sun and the fifth. And many can administer quizzes and find nothing Nomar then your doctor friend does about chlamydia or whatever Ellis. So anyway and I don't think there's a contradiction there at all like turning politics into -- drama. Into soap opera you are deeply engaging people in an arrogant and it just has so happens -- the -- actually happening in the real world. Does the narrative then actually leave kind of jump from the screen or from. The living room -- into the real world oh yes we do a lot of survey information on that as well for our health project in particular has yet to keep proving to the national institutes of health and the Centers for Disease Control that this stuff works. But also in the Zogby survey we asked people. Okay won't let what have you ever done based on what you learned about politics in some fictional shows that that you watch. And it was amazing and vast majority of the American public said they had done something. Written to a newspaper. Made a donation and among the poorest people were the most likely to say they had made -- donation an African Americans in particular said they volunteered in their neighborhood. They called somebody and everybody said they talk to somebody about it you see a compelling story you ask somebody else did you see. Did you know. So. And it's it's I think it's impossible to keep the entertainment experience contained within. The media it it always ends up leaking into real lives."

" Did you the last edges wouldn't equal employment. -- thing is is kind did it seems really stupid and real base level sub -- I've spent I was that there's studios and in. And then to use K and I've been looking over his always capital. Always in the news. Always with we've -- abuse so what looks like some paper cutouts. Young preteen boys as shouting filter into the air -- is keeping his sort of I'm being an intern."

" And it's actually that's where the -- really and -- the content it's because they're paper cut. Animations that are really easy to put together in a week's time that they can actually talk about the news that happened over the last week. If they made beautiful animations they'd be talking about the news happened six months ago."

" I'll open up the floor for questions just a minute but I would ask one last question -- what -- you guys. Unfortunately your questions and take advantage. Among robbers -- a flash a couple of graphics flying on up here. The sort of the questions designed to bring this up to the moment in his last week new York daily post ran this cartoon depicting hope. The pick in the shooting of a chimpanzee -- gone -- along with the headline they'll have to find someone else to write the next. Stimulus bill which forced to -- me. And some now think really not so much an apology from the your daily. As I was looking to find the cartoon. I looked online and found -- not. I'm lifted years were the cartoons that -- directly connected Obama. To. Two chimpanzees. That are part of the Photoshop cultures the parts for -- culture that we've seen. Where average citizens are taking images of manipulating them and in various ways. Sort of bring the issue and then I went back even further. And discovered this which many of my liberal friends had circulated you know we probably have seen this on bulletin boards and refrigerators which showed George Bush. As a chimpanzee. And so like I I throw open to be provocative but also the think about what are we make -- the controversy over this particular cartoon. And what does that tell us about on what does this tell us about. Both the role of satire on politics and the role when the politics at its -- culture."

" Not that I didn't think controversies. I got the controversy. I'm in the controversy as you can you know you can call me a bad driver. It's really matter if you call woman a bad driver as a host of confrontations. And restrictions. And and so on and so forth behind it in so. I think it was just it was this idea that humor could somehow be outside of historical political discourse. While the same time of course. And in Hartford the funny couldn't have been and that's why that would block the post well we didn't believe it was just a joke and so on to let me get some level. They knew and they want to -- that line and -- what would happen and they want to be in some odd way kinda. Beat host racial. But also garner the sort of you know the the fruits of the racist discourse as well it's I thought it was. I could understand what people got upset at those pretty bad -- actually this."

" Well executed. Comedy. Happens within the context dollars and and so that's one reason why it's it's less okayed to talk about how bad an Asian driver is supposed how bad it whitening Mount Everest. So there's this cultural context and that cultural context is completely. Saturated the stereotypes. And soul. One of the things that I was doing after -- that he wanted to talk -- this current tenants like ovals around -- you know racist cartoons about Obama. I found several that were actually from last year. And it's seem to me that the emphasis was really on racial racist stereotypes. That might be and vote for a black -- That's suggested that a blackmail was somehow superior. To the rest of the world. -- If I have to spell it out was something that was mentioned are gesture to him several cartoons that I found I thought it was very interesting. Because it's one of those examples where -- utilizing a stereotype it's demeaning and and and of course it's productive. But utilizing and it's such a way that you're suggesting that this person this person who's a member of a minority and is therefore a victim of racism and answer those stereotypes. Actually has been all over us. So it's it's very interesting how these things can be invoked and have completely different balances positive -- negative."

" Five I I I totally agree with what's that I think to me what was interest -- the Photoshop images. Including buying myself for George Bush won -- is that. We we operate often as the greater participation man -- more civility in discourse more diversity in the scores. It also means that these what's taken program in the world of Photoshop collages. It's probably can go much lower. That would be acceptable on the pages of and respect. Debt these very these images and I'm showing -- pretty relate. On your -- many of us were comfortable with it on our -- her door when it was about George Bush -- not about Obama. So we -- that's sort of I think those of us who are excited about participatory dimensions of the new media also have to be I think -- aware of the kinds of insensitivity. The kinds of you know the debate levels of discourse that sometimes circulate in the sports is the -- culture."

" I mean that's that's what discussions about and a lot of ways and probably the best thing going to do is that the good thing about sort of the new media supposed to you know post. Is the New York Post. Shows up on my -- in what can I do I can write a letter to them that may or may not be published. But anything that shows up on the web I can actually. Produce something. I can comment below it -- you know try to. Does. Make my own count 21 go viral and get more hits than there is that is is that the form is fundamentally different and so yes it might step might suggest is atrocious just is uncivil perhaps more on civil. The forum in which were working and how is for discussion around that supposed to the broadcast model."

" Those of us who work in large media outlets always side of the web as one where publishing opportunity when in fact. Jeff Jarvis and others be madness it's actually a way for you to listen. In here and I cracked that that's great. And then I shouldn't occasionally appear in the political issues and the level of discourse I mean historically it's always assumed. But the people on the right we've -- talk radio -- previews that they are the file list most. That that they'll come at you with -- I noticed no difference in level of discourse according to political opinion in the run this event it's disrespectful of us. And and I'm not even a woman because. And our paper if your woman it would always start with your physique it would always start with your body parts. And before they even active today and and so it's it's great that we can hear from our I hate it sometimes apology. But they really want."

" Not. No really -- Not. -- don't think there'd be a fall. But hit I had one thing if you don't mind."

" A friend sent this to me and I just sounded so deeply compelling and I think it fits in very nicely with with your book that your book project finally sing about dreams and politics. And and really engaging with political discourse in popular culture having. I'm writing blogs about it making videos and remixed videos and stuff it's a way of with creating a story where you have a role in it right. And it's participatory. Well one thing has fascinated I was this blog. Blocking entry on the -- site was thought it was called dreams of Obama do you see them. And it was the blogger can emperor who was said that friends started mentioning to her that have been dreaming about Obama."

" And I'd like Michelle yeah. So people then and so she started collecting these dreams about Obama and all of the dreams were so fastening sometimes they were sexual. Sometimes they were fraught with August -- Couldn't really like bush ally like doing this to her. Sometimes it was Obama's economic strong -- he's cleaned out my house I think it's metaphorical. -- any closing the son lying and becomes a part."

" A sort of political consciousness that. It's deeply self conscious and it's great storytelling. And X it's truly deeply affecting the lives that relieve and such some of that on out there. Okay so over here."

" Earth in -- sympathy with -- what I think was thinks that it brand Obama and sort of you know reading anything in into what you want to. This things that we're in a way in most impressive to me about Obama as a candidate patsy patsy. Presented. Candidate. Worry in broadcast television and there are two. Moments that I want to mention. One was in one of the debates where -- is being attacked by Hillary. And what today. We saw on the screen I thought was someone taking in the intact sort of watching him processes attack. In cut and use it what might. An inclination to last that. But sort of processing it. Controlling it and then responding. From another place. And I was impressed with that weather like Obama politically you or or not and I'm not then -- bonds them. The other moment was when what I took to -- feigned. Gesture at the end of a subsequent to -- I think it was when he got and kind of went. Poll which showed that he was interest in bowling. Hillary's sheer winner in the debate -- holders here burger. And what part of what I wondered is is the first instance possibly -- you think it's an example. Someone with their consultants. Understanding the nature of television as a medium. And understand the importance -- need to be present a cool. Kind. Presentation. And what are you might have to say about the other example and also I'm not sure quite understand how you can manipulate or -- was just. Off the -- use of the word trick people with integrity. It seems to me you know you might have a good message you might want to draw people into here mr. Russert in sympathy with bring -- example bush. But I just don't understand how manipulating people. It is is something it's done without any kind of you and your message you might think it's -- good."

" Yet I I just want to speak that quickly two things one is. I actually think they don't underestimate Obama's training since the age of one. And being surveyed and looked that he's a black man growing up and you know non black country. And that when he walks into a room people look at him and had judgments about him and he's learned to look at himself on -- this is -- two boys write about double consciousness. And so I think that studied cool that people saw had a lot to do it growing up black in America. Nominee can go one way or the other and this is the way it went with him. But going back that give manipulation and -- of integrity within manipulation. They give you an example which Las Vegas. Not the gambling casinos. But that Las Vegas is a fake and everybody knows -- fake. That is it manipulates you or rather it is a spectacle it is -- you that draws you man. But knowing who goes to New York, New York and Las Vegas thinks they're actually go to New York. That is that you can have a sort of a spectacular. For trail you can't have a stylistic betrayal but all the same time -- very open about what you're doing in this is the difference between something like. George Bush landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln which is selling fantasy asked the truth. Versus presenting a good story. And presenting. A a narrative or brand people actually want to be part you we're not saying that he's actually -- We're saying he's learned how to package himself so himself. And be an identity and to be an image in a lot of ways and I think to a certain extent -- we all do that now he's it's particularly good at it."

" And I think it's an just a splendid question because when I remember the first instance you tighten up. And when he was processing. Was he also processing what you and I would say. Do you -- do you think that I think that she thinks that yeah it was he because. I've seen again close the targets -- Overestimated the amount of processing power. And worked there is is and I think a lot of it comes from what went once he was -- him out. And aisles of the weirdest reported that at some weaknesses can you played out in the public -- the other day and this is. Mo let's to that point but these exemplars over and over. Give Billy Italian platforms ships so if you came into Monday and it worked it to you he said. Did you see Obama really thinking it through before he and it's a no. When I'm gonna go look at right now. And I think that something completely different. It was the ability catch up time and again -- the water cooler lewis' movable even platforms shifted today. Where we can albeit in the joke we can be. They gave us an opportunity we have I think a deeper. Conversation on the way."

" An Indian country and I teaching compared these studies. -- it very it's a really wonderful discussion a lot of levels one of the things I want to push on. Who was the image of popular culture you know what is this popular culture and one of the things I've been getting from the discussion. Is that a lot of that seems to be about representations. Or. A way of thinking about individuals. Either as leaders who are branded in certain ways says chimps Torres. Cool wrap aficionados. Or. In terms of the kind of individualized consumer right that the red groups of -- consumerism -- consumers purple purple consumers as a kind of who. Large mask I guess basically and I think you know one of the things that I found so actually about the Obama. Phenomenon is that it's started to draw attention to this middle level politics where it was more about. Small groups networking write a kind of collective engagement. That was less about the representations. As it was about. Facilitating the flow that thing got people -- and -- got people in and kind of small groups I think it is a kind of jazz democracy right yet these people improvising on different -- but in small groups. And so you know and then some of the things you know that. You know this distinction between you know news would have documentaries and talk shows and then that's not pop culture and the other stuff is I'm not sure about those kind of distinctions because. If pop culture is. The things that we talk about and that it. We watch full fare with the knowledge of what really happens in the news than that distinction doesn't really holding and why doesn't hold this because. It's about how we talk about it with each other and that there doesn't matter whether we learned from -- where where letter from. A column in the New York Times and and so I think. You know that that I guess that's the -- level I am sort of curious. To hear more about domestic -- conversation you know the word mobilization came up and I think maybe mobilize is that is one way to think about it. Right collective engagement. And that there's this kind of middle level of politics and is things that's so frustrating about the -- meltdown is that it's either. We need great leaders to somehow pull us out of this. Or we should just keep spending you know as consumers and the season is this middle level what are corporations how to they work you know what are. What are our responsibilities as. As a nation of consumers or as people who live in certain ways how to we'd participate in these smaller groups. That really seems what to be what Obama suggested -- was out there but it seems we still have our discourse doesn't caught up. To find out a way to talk about that. Thank you."

" And that he said. Both cases so it's you my room."

" But it ended -- I -- we were talking about popular cosmetic when things that I as a political activists really admired about the Obama campaign was that they were able. Through they're networking too. We activate sort of civic society and civil society and so you could actually this is that you could actually plugging in all sorts of levels. And be an activist for a day landings I've -- community organizers the first and you give -- comes to meeting to give -- job because once they actually complete that has no matter how small it is. They are now part of your campaign as to when things they did was build. To -- you know to expand the term a culture of organized. And one of the things to people when talking about in my circle of political organizers is what do we do with this culture of organizing now. He's Obama going to use it. Or have all these people that used to think of themselves as consumers of politics. And now -- themselves producers of politics. How can we tap into that because that's when. Social movements and organizations explode when people. Who don't think of themselves as politicos start to actually practice politicos that they bring in all of this new stuff. So in the civil rights mummies -- act up. And that's when these things explode into all sorts of new and exciting formations which just tired old political it would never thought it."

" I thought you're gonna talk about. And I read some article all take it that you wrote recently about how powerful these small networks are in particular because. It's a when he in which. Groups of people can survive. Can sort of share a sense of being celebrity's right to become known to other people. Brain yeah we always think of it as a mass audience and one's celebrity and everybody's looking for their seven minutes of fame of the seven seconds of fame but when you have these really tight aggressive. And and mobilized a little networks. -- it becomes a kind of celebrity within them and so I think that's another way in which popular culture in this whole notion of celebrity becomes injected. Into the does that -- culture into the political process and in I think of very functional fashion via."

" PDD. Ability to customize by."

" Geography among other things -- let itself to release its stance of I'm an opt in response. Part of what people need to know this is itself. -- achieve progressive. Impaired people look at mega church in. Houston didn't say how can that needs this spiritual needs of 4800. People be satisfied. By this one. Course. -- Self signed into prayer groups they meet. Where -- didn't -- there -- so leaders in this decade there. And everybody gets a role to play and the amount of sort of feedback about not only do you exist. That you -- good person. You're trying. You're you're you're bought him daring retail level and I mean Obama. Has always since as the Chicago in him and I watched him. Work a room really -- the -- people -- and and then there and watched him worked in retail aspect of it I do think that he came up with the campaign organism. Replicated the ability. To and that just that -- from people but to give them things as well to give them say it."

" We turn our involvement one of the things that I arguing convergence cultures you're learning you're place feels we're going to acquire we're gonna. Applied a more serious purposes as we find the cause that drives us. So I think what I would argue that can -- pop culture consumption today it's almost never individuals it's always social it's always been through. Networks in one way or another the fans communities gamer communities have. More and more become large scale collective bargaining units on behalf of media consumers. And as they do so there teaching their rank and file. How to act politically and -- very interested in sort of proto political behaviors like -- Clinton so. How do people quickly mobilized to write letters to keep a television show. On the air order policies and desist letter that's what thrown out. And how to remove from those tactics into. New forms of political activists might suggest that most of what I saw on the Obama campaign. I recognized from. -- cultures of one sort or another the myth of Obama has. Fan in chief is running through the communities. I regularly study the fact that he reads Harry Potter novels to his kids that he can reference YouTube videos that he knows how to do the vulcan salute. There's a whole mythology about Obama as he. Fan boy yes that is taken root in the society which bring in an appealing candidate for the shock troops. Who -- learn how to navigate through social networks. To achieve proto political ends which now are becoming political as they as their attention turns from the cultural sphere toward more traditional politics."

" And that Activision is Activision had those periods various articles of interest. It often involves you know somebody blew a whistle none of the rest of us could hear. But he is a whistle blower in -- he's so that you can make a noise that did various articles but it -- easy easy -- able to sort of customize and segment is that is engines and it out you know rated message to wear a lot of people. Field he glanced down. And there are very different."

" And what's different I think is that we used to thinking of consuming as this -- passive activity and that of course is this you know moment what goes through it's it was not. -- fairly passive because we put them -- meanings and what we consumers and so forth. But now because of technology. Particularly the media sphere were rarely gets consumers were actually consumer producers all the time. And when -- convicted Obama tapped into is not to sort of age old organizing techniques which would've learned. In the street Chicago's community organizer but also this fundamental understanding that when people consume a message they want to produce it as well. They want to make it go by what they want to put their own little spin on it. If they called snowflake organizing with in the world which every snowflake was different to you were taken Obama's message then you'd reproduce it. But they allowed for a lot of sort of bomb. I don't I say this they allowed people to. To make it around. And they never get the clamping down in policing. On the that is not that they could come and on the message not that they -- but didn't even try -- in a thousand flowers bloom is going to work forest as long as we got that thirty minute infomercial."

" I mean yeah others have written. What customization. Will do the ability. To just put little constantly just to touch -- movies certainly. I'm not quite sure -- what do we hear you sir."

" What the question what -- easily groundwork for it. I'd like to change that perspective it is pop culture is. Ephemeral and fleeting. If we. Enjoyed. It and discussing the success of the new media and politics let's go for years in the future. Will there be a Twitter will there be -- FaceBook. What's in the pipelines now that are going to substantially. Change the paradigm. For 2000. And twelve."

" The if the."

" I'm like crystal ball they were -- it became an MIT faculty members busted this week. You know I think the interesting thing is I I was art wrote completed convergence culture -- in the last campaign was and -- culture. Doesn't include any reference to web two point now doesn't include any reference. He used to doesn't coded reference the second line doesn't -- in reference to twitters. Efforts at the very last minute you liked it. So all of that it happened since the last presidential election. And I'm modest enough to admit to you that I didn't see most of that coming no logic of what what that book described. Would account for all up. The specifics. Are all you know we're on the horizon but we don't know yet what they're gonna be so I think we can think logically where the culture is going to move us. But I think it's none of us could tell you what the technologies for years from now. Where the platforms -- so now -- actually be. That enable that politics that take place. But if you looked for years ago you would have seen the beginnings of satire is a political. Tool you would have seen signs of fan base movements in politics you would have seen a number of things we talked about here today -- left and Joe Trippi and Howard Dean impacted Obama in ways that you know we could've predicted but we can't what we can't predict is. What's the plot that."

" I don't think you can overestimate. How radical it can be if you look -- slide you know he's like now -- how. Rapidly these strategic you can have a candidate in 2 say yeah I got a media strategy. Let's not engage them. -- Zero."

" We're going to broadcast. -- be using our own. Media. And we're getting we're we're going to build constituencies. And we don't want to third party entities and anything we do could be as critical -- that."

" David put up. Fleeting reference to Walter Benjamin up there and a wealth of management seminal article on -- YouTube and reproduction and to its conclusion. Which is essentially reproduction is change the ball game for politics. And it's either going to lead to fascism. Where it's going to lead to a democratic communism. And he's holding it open because he doesn't know which way it's gonna go either the idea the image is giving -- or five. Read brought together and given a singular meaning under fascism or people are going to have a discussion. About the meaning of images and so on and so forth. And I think that's exactly and we have to look at it now you can look at the logic of what's happening but also understand that this it was agency there that it can split one liners but the other way. There."

" Hi thanks for a great panel my name is Madeleine them graduate student competitive media studies program. I have a question against China mainly for you but also expanded outward. Vogel at age play in. Those sort of preferences. It's sort of different definitions of each of those groups to get it seemed to me that there you know age would be a factor into an expanded out what role does. Does -- play in the formation of popular culture is it really driven by. This for the younger half of people are. Also other sort of factors that might that might influence. How it's practical to -- me."

" Shares are well I can get you a little demographic portrait of each one of the groups as if that's an adventurous than the oldest group was which fun. Well as their rents camp there -- also the wealthiest. And they were the group within which a majority never graduated from college so they're making the most money but they weren't the most educated. Their most likely married. Their most likely living in rural areas. Most of them a majority of them describe themselves as born again. 72%. Are registered Republican. In the least racially diverse group and they were the only group for a -- actually outnumbered women. So absolutely demographics drive the kinds of preferences ease up on the screen. For blues they were the youngest group. The most educated the most urban the most racially and religiously diverse they were 79%. Democrats. 18% registered independents. They were as likely to describe themselves as moderate as they -- to say that they were liberal or progressive. This is in a separate part of the survey -- asked them to self identify. They were skiing mount. Most likely they were single are in a civil union and most of them lived in the center Great Lakes region. Hillenmeyer. Purple system. Most haven't graduated from college half identify as born again there are most likely to be divorced widowed separated. They were -- majority. Large city or suburbs they live in the east the largest group of them. Middle aged and middle class more likely to make less than 35 K for household. A majority voted for Kerry in 2004. And 45% Democrat 24% Republicans 31%. In Japan."

" Maybe just a fathers and I -- I don't know enough about sort of statistics and and how these sort of numbers plant but it seems community. Their life. And it's sort of what it looks pensive. Consequences will those groupings have because things like there sort of little bits of deftly managed the percentage of percentage and how does that lead to any sort of consensus."

" what was important to us is just trying to figure out where the ideological divides really are in this country before we -- we -- get to the work of the survey in the research which -- to figure out whether there was any correlation. Between political ideology and entertainment preferences. And we had no idea where the fault lines are going to be how many groups we were going to discover how coherent they were whether there were going to be coherent groups off. But it turned out there with these three topics. And it was very interesting to take a look at what each one of those chunks -- meant. And -- the pressure on us from the press. Was really to figure out -- the middle group plans. Because the way in which we generally talk about politics the United States has between conservative and liberal. Between Democrat and Republican. And we have a very vague notion of what those people in between might be like and who they are well it turns out it's one in four Americans if you're looking at our ideological index. And who are okay. What are they thinking this is this was something that that we wish to answer and we've done different. -- analyses of the data in 2007 in particular we didn't -- New York Times magazine piece. Those about female moderates. The moderate group was the largest majority female of all three groups -- very curious about who they work as a demographic. And sold and that's the value of that really is just trying to figure out where the fracture lines are in this country and ideologically. How we sort of clustered together in groups because it just looking at that party registration. And -- the way people identify themselves politically. Is much less predicted actually of what their ideological beliefs -- and also let's predictive of what their entertainment preferences are. We found."

" You judge -- youthful cohort what they might be capable. In terms of going forward there right now tipped it over mainstream media culture. And -- there there there there influence is profound self produced scenes of consuming self editorializing you. They're dictating. Terms. Going forward so it is. It you cannot underestimate. What's going to happen in terms of the political process because they can move as a cold hard. Express needs in a way that previous generations. Did not imagine in the sixties. If those guys against. These kids. And keep in mind keep in mind that people. Your -- now in addition to all of these. Amazing. Seemingly transparent. Networked behaviors. I developed it. So it's like if I am running nationally. It's aside I'm gonna do quite put -- Baghdad. Which is its its stereo out. And it's and and and him. Will work will work offers because the amount of basically the trees that the younger cohorts present. Mediate in media terms in and that thing is people say. Well how did that and Obama get built without. What we know of course well it was self cleaning up anytime he did you know that that that the communication goes. Both ways employee if you really screws up in the White House is he ever going to hear about we screwed up and then left in the campy. He had this huge its its network jumped down his throat. And it's it's it's called response it's not the polarity goes. Both ways."

" But the Republican parties were trying to pump up Bobbie -- at all as they Republicans. Obama we thought but it is an example of -- media skills. This past week do you think there are candidates who could learn the lessons of Obama."

" I mean is that what what you know or about it now on the notes is terrible it was just. It really was you know is there. They don't have any ideas they're exhausted. That reminds me of the Democratic Party in 1976 you know through nineteen who threw the most recent election and I don't know they certainly don't seem to have any anybody they seem to answer retreads of you know Democrats essentially which is with the Democratic Party did -- remind people for about twenty years so I don't see anybody in the wings. As Sarah Palin is not as she you know I don't I think she might be charismatic. But I don't think she has to sort of sappy and their ability to. To work across platforms can only work in one way which is a prepared speech. And and perhaps in public speaking to an audience which agrees with that she's not going to cross platform and Obama really is good cross platform. We -- to receive it you know if the rest of the Democratic Party can come on board this I don't know thinking and his team certainly can imagine the rest."

" Question -- there."

" It's seclusion from the the researcher in the -- performance that are here like the -- ask about. And it seems like one of the things that I keep hearing I can sort of kept -- both you know during the you know pre election that's -- post election. About Obama was wild it's so nice to have. And it approved an inspiring person and missile office or so nice to have an inspiring person running for the solve isn't so -- to -- inspiring person and in the office. And what it is I just just just ordered it to get your sort of collector reactions is to. Is that some things that it is happens to be an important aspect of our culture right now and it's reflected in them. In in other ways particularly in -- in -- in terms of the type of entertainment that people are that that that that people are. And it moved. Our. In you know looking for the and the public have into entertainment that's popular and I mean do we see that sort of inspiration theme reform is this is this the sort of temporal thing or does it happen to -- is that something that. We sort of see. Throughout time and just so happens that here's a guy who can actually really do this. And curious if we see that sort of inspiration theme reflected another in other areas of pop culture."

" I think it's typical in sports in particular where people have these idols you know day. They have a body like ours that they can do is the most amazing things with them it's it's incredibly inspiring and and you love it when you find somebody -- different enough to two lists somehow. Transcend what seems like all the human fallibility it that you're surrounded by and it used to play the sport that you watch them play on TV you're just in shock and how they do that. And I think that's the kind of feeling that a lot of people have about Obama as well that under all of this media pressure and constant surveillance that he just. Doesn't screw -- very much. Take another prime happen. So I think it's very important to have icons it's part of what celebrity culture celebrates. And it can be aspiration for everyone but it's I don't think it's continuing new and I think it's certainly depends on on people with huge vats of talent. And doesn't come around all the time is not many of them."

" I do think that. Let the economy starved for a couple more months let them. Continue to be unable to get economists commerce secretary. Let is. Decisions in Iraq come tough on him and mainstream media and the viral media will. Demonstrate his feet of clay with enormous. Alacrity and his exalted. Status will dissipate. Like that in -- you'll see a click -- point I do think to your question. Must not think meg getting into whether US foreign policy has frittered away. Nervous equities we have in the world -- which it's sort of attendance is sweet and pretty net and it. You know I -- to depart from that George Bush as a hood ornament. American culture people have become uncomfortable. Because he was inarticulate. Because he is getting is grades and in terms of world leadership. Probably had less to do. Where it was significant strategic cares immortal to do with the fact that the guy couldn't -- couldn't communicate. And didn't represented us well. As a people and there was just a cultural reflex I think and I think that was part of the great hunger. Reminded its use odd people vary much purple. Who were totally in him mostly can he can. Mostly because he can commute that they're -- this my ex as opposed to the practical decisions he makes."

" I would agree disagree with -- hope I'm right. But you might be right I actually think that like Ronald Reagan and like FDR that actually. Look at the world that Helen hand basket. And Barack about most of high approval ratings. I think that he is at the top of his game I think the sports metaphor is is it an act like it is like watching an athlete just at the top of -- game -- on -- instincts. He can pull what should be disaster. The Jeremiah Wright thing and turn it into victory he understands pacing the whole stimulus package when the mainstream media. He let it go let it go let it go but the news cycle certain shift he dominated the game for the last three days -- the guys really really good. He also. Winning in Iraq I mean in Kuwait shooting basketball with the troops he made a -- shot from outside the three point line. You know it's a Republican conspiracy theory is a Manchurian candidate at that moment. I was thinking that might be some credence to just no one can through that -- all worlds media watching us. Over here."

" Public provoke a little further discussion about silence addicts. And I think that they actually are. Political action not that they preceded. Our that they surrounded but that the creation of aesthetics and style is a political action. The thing that has inspired me to think that is. The increase awareness about lobbying in the influence of lobbying on our elected officials that let me here it's called rationality is in itself a style. That's the style that is that tries to disappear. Into political action to have political action is a certain way of speaking. And being -- actually believe that George Bush appealed. On on a certain level to this for eight years that his speaking style did represent many people. And people -- very happy that the way that he kind of challenge certain coldness and rationality with warmth and emotion. And Obama is actually taking the bush projects a little bit further instances silent performance of politics."

" You if you're saying is there is is there politics actually embedded in style and are ecstatic. I think yet I think yes. There. -- an opposition between style politics -- that style is politics. -- You know one that we don't. Do you style we just do context of course that in itself as -- styles he always have to be thinking that over turnover. This is."

" Quickly debt own."

" Is a billion where. Fame. As a little scandal. Which has some dinner. Culture has come to. And admire. Is it gives him he starts. With a style athletes I mean I was. I was in Denver and -- way out."

" In this stadium and they did did drop -- that they do. And a big national convention demand is coming. He's going to be here over and over everybody comes out and talks about this guy this -- this -- And then when it comes and I'm there as a reporter I'm not there is an American citizen. There's a difference. Quote but after this big drum well the fact that. Plant guy comes like -- don't Derek. I was just like little windy here. Stop stop playing in my eyes and know what I was reacting to was that Obama is going to be a president gets. No matter what anybody has ever said about this country we as a people. Regardless of what he does can access -- all. Of our better nature and to that extent. His ability to take that great wage and not let him crash. And I let it become. You know he he ran away from race through out. We all pinned so many hopes and in effect and it didn't bring him to his knees. Or that he didn't go there rhetorically I just think is that there was a grace to it it is. You know put away the three pointer to organize the top of his -- it's like how do you know that. And that that we were already is of people doing network. Society that we need and he didn't need upon now if that's I think currently ago."

" I guess so I was just gonna say that. But there is so much substance and style I think a lot of us would like to think that -- surface it's the -- solids it somehow DeForest from let's let's packaging. That's never been the case it's always historical it's always -- in the cultural context. It communicates volumes. And people who are able to understand the meaning of the style. At the people who can usually best communicate with an audience and I think that's one thing that Obama just has an amazing -- I think it's one reason that so many people as talked about his tough talk to but his campaign in terms of brand Obama. That's exactly what branding is about it's. It's it's creating a space within a retail consumer market is owned by one thing right it has my identity. It has content. It has substance. And get. It's ephemeral at stake it's constructed it's a few colors of the swoosh it's it's a whatever whatever it may be composed of just beside the point. It's the meaning that it conjure us. That's really important and I think that's that's one reason that it it's just completely specious try to claim. That we can somehow. Revive politics by ticking the entertainment out of it but taking the style and the bells and whistles and and the fun parties in the kind of ball. -- it's just not going to happen."

" Time for one last question."

" doctor fair bit about the role of of comedy in this past election went to and get your thoughts a little bit on the role of drama and particular. Some TV drama in. Sort of -- perhaps laying the groundwork. Or in helping to define and people's minds a sense of what's possible and what's normal. I'm thinking of things like on the west wing the characters and to those who was specifically. Modeled on Obama back when he was still of local politician in Illinois. Young. Progressive nonwhite candidate who actually gets elected president. The role of or a program like commander in chief with Gena Davis. Becoming. The president as a result of having been selected as -- running mate for an elderly maverick Republican. Candidate. Black president on 24. That these the sort of continuous week after week set of images. That people are exposed to. Helps to sort of lay the groundwork. For so that even though we've never actually had a black president before the notion of having a black president or a woman president. Is not quite as jarring or is surprising. Or is strange to people because they've lived with that. In that in that medium over that length of time and not just not just the sort of demographic factors but also. The west wing at a time when. People's opinions both the presidency in the congress were sort of on an all time low of at least reminding people of the notion that. It's at least theoretically possible to have political leaders who are both intelligent and well motivated. It. To help. Kept people away from just becoming totally cynical about it. Politics and reminding them of of what's possible. How much of world do you think those kinds of images have played -- and what's come."

" I think its immense -- is at the west wing was in exile. The good government in exile. But I think that it's dangerous to think and I'm -- what's wrong negates a thing picked it actually created a mindset which we stand going to be accepting. A black president thoughtful president -- so forth. I actually think it also work the other way which is why that was successful why the producers thought the could get away with -- money actually was given to until it's worth. Hello to the correct reading that the desires of the American population mean one of the good things about living any free market capitalist society is. When things don't happen to a public psyche him last when season. And certainly got a couple of seasons and your -- you know if I was a politics right now I'd be watching house every single night. Track and figure out what's going on there."

" Of course we follow the law that David explains why Obama that Clinton since commander in chief that last look at it."

" producer of Tony Clark was that the Democrat he's like -- people is making fun of Russia's and it's so conservative and so retrograde we think we helped get Obama elected he said I had been able to get to show on the air. You know the for the actors strike. He thinks Hillary would've won because of cherry Jones portrait of the president unfunny pharmacist now running sound."

" I agree with the basis of the question which we as a culture have been doing these cameras to -- a long time and -- anyway."

" Okay thank you very much during the during the game thinking cap."

" Thank you very much."