Title: Friday, July 10

" Here now is a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI I'm loving young it's here and now. Never mind that Barack Obama has never set foot in Ghana the country's message for the first African American president is welcome home. The greeting springs from the hope that Obama will help lift his late Kenyan father's whole continent from the depths of conflict and poverty. The president and his family arriving -- tonight he will address the country's parliament tomorrow. Joseph letting go is editor of the BBC's focus on Africa program and he turns to snow from London. -- of these expectations. For just how much Obama can do for Africa I think too high."

" I think that people thinking that now that we've got someone -- that countries is lineage back to Africa. That this is good to be good for Africa that movement pops have a favorable. US policy foreign policy on Africa. But on the other hand President Bush didn't do quite a lot for African -- invest quick Thabeet in the fight against HIV aids so that raises the bar even higher."

" But she President Obama has his critics -- executive director of the global aids alliance says Obama has broken his promise -- to Africa when it comes to funding for HIV aids and malaria."

" The feeling is that we haven't seen the full is a visa policy and HIV it. But the thinking is that -- bushels absolutely can be tips to the fight against malaria and HIV aids. You know there was millions and millions of Dolan devoted to these competing you actually seat on the ground but we didn't see the apron malls pledges from from a bombing comes of this is how much money yeah I want to put towards these. I suppose that's what we might expect on Saturday when he keeps his actual address what's. And -- Pickens of the choice of Ghana for a president Obama's African business. A -- tennis facilities caused a lot of grief around Africa from Kenya for example where -- think he should compute frosts. -- fathers weren't exactly. From Nigeria which is Africa's biggest country with the biggest population. Principles there's a rational choice folk Ghana Ghana has just had an election a couple of the same time the President Obama was that elected is a new administration. It had a history of military rule and -- 22 democratic transition. Until last election in December was very very close and there was a real opportunity for the country to sink into violence but Beatles opposite you know what we gonna move on today's. -- and it's as good good democratic credentials. The other reason is opposes -- brings to mind especially for Americans as a country that that the people who practice between African Americans in terms of one of the origins of as slavery seats got at that as -- so so to speak god -- in quotes a clean democratic credentials and that's what Obama wants to push across that Africa even needs to sort it's a democratic transitions and."

" Acting -- there's place and it's become quite a tourist. A destination for African Americans and I'm sure Africans around the world because it's a place where. Slaves embarked on their trip to other places I'm sure we'll see him taking in some of these sites and push you mentioned. That -- as as Obama said before the trip has a history good governance as opposed to Kenya where hundreds of civilians were killed after. Those ethnic clashes following this disputed 2007 vote but I want you to a gun is expected to start pumping oil in 30 and -- ruining do you think Obama's taking a page from China's playbook China pushing its oil and other business relations on the continent."

" Absolutely nothing that's the unspoken reason a waste into Africa and why he's chosen -- on -- ten has made a huge inroads in in Africa in securing -- both -- and another natural resources and better recently -- the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev who also visited a few countries who've got -- a big -- So that is a feeling that America as well needs to be out day in securing its place in terms of energy supplies a participant to."

" Is that a lot of fun reading the Africans weighing in on the BBC blogs. As you said gone instantly with so much pride. Others Nigerians wondering why not us. But everybody agreeing that well this is president Obama's first visit to sub saharan Africa he did. Pass to Egypt many saying he didn't bring Michelle Obama so it doesn't count."

" Yes and she's got a lot of funds should tele that is going to be quite a colorful and visit. In and says that out functions that tests at a site and in skip coasts for example but the slavery port that we we we were talking about Alia. The first five million -- will visit but visible to frustration though that there isn't that much. Beacon which -- for him to have a huge rally out in the open where people can see you mean the French. Can see me show and it's it's quite restricted comic is at a visits to say Germany -- for example so let's souls of some frustration in Ghana."

" Just of anger editor of the BBC's focus on Africa thanks so much for speaking and that -- you looking for a book to bring to the -- the leak or hiking. How about bail. -- of the second biggest stunt in literary history after killings according to our next guest. But it tenth century Anglo Saxon poetry is not -- how about. James Joyce's Ulysses the Citizen Kane of English language novels or. 100 years of solitude the singular masterpiece and the second half of the twentieth century infect. One thing all of these books have in common is that they are considered among the best books ever written but. They're rarely read it well our next guest makes the case that if you know what to -- you could make them beach chair companions his new guide is called. They'll on the beach or what to love and what to skip in literature is fifty greatest hits and Jack -- hand who has a doctorate in medieval and Renaissance literature. And teaches writing at the University of the Arts in New York. Joins us from the cargo network studios in Manhattan Jack welcome. Thank you Texas because people. See what you you're hitting a farewell to arms or caucus the trial lower middle march George Eliot nobody reads those --"

" It's true -- sort of said that's why I wrote this book to try to to reorient people away from magazines and and a you know lesser fiction and try to get to read some really good thing to my surprise them."

" Well a year an enemy that is different opinions of the list so for instance I completely understand tolls to his and a -- Another 'cause believe China. But thrusters can very -- it's in fourteenth century English. Our producer and a -- is one of legions who had to memorize the opening lines that the Canterbury tales. Oh I think chemical twenty years go and he still remembers and let's listen Juan not operable with -- That drew to have my chest Paris into the road and bothered every gain in switched from the cooler of which meant to engendered is the fluent."

" Not all the carriage -- are going to be especially for injuries at this point but some of them might surprise you is being among the funniest and and maybe even sexist -- for your reverend. You read something like the way from bath and she talks about how she's put five husbands in the screenplay having too much sex with them. And that she just wants to have a young woman who stays fresh in the -- always gives her what she wants and that she's gonna have dominion over him by. Plotting out how much pleasure Angela. Kind of feminist kind of moderate and right."

" Yeah well well and it also is -- the part of the book that some might wanna get too real fast and stop. Indeed yes you're you're allowed to -- some of the religious service says -- which pages those are -- you can you can by pass those Williams you have these different segments. So that they're a guide to what to look for it. One of the segment is what's sexy in the books so for instance. In madame ovary the erotic description of sweat and the broad -- shoulders. Quickie faxes and other segment of -- can you write that he died at forty of starvation. Of illnesses that made his throats -- sore he couldn't swallow and is he right that's awful. Isn't about these these little quirky facts that you think opens the door to some of these books."

" I think that at the end of the day people wanna be able to remember trivia about things and I figure if you never make it around to reading the -- and you'll always remember that fact right. Or I tell you that there is there's a character and in Faust and it's a from Africa is a bit of flame trapped in a test to. You'll remember."

" Well it's not an -- another acting that you let us in on though is what to skip. And in Moby Dick for instance that would be pretty much all the chapters on whaling. No no no room only a little bit only a tiny -- who what do you say to those who say even that this city you know every word of a great book should be read."

" I hope to most people don't have children that they're ignoring or lovers for the not listening to hook. Or other things that they're not tending to because you know I I read all the spokesman for the multiple times and very very carefully but it takes a long long time and you can expect people with normal lives -- normal jobs to be able to -- All 3300 pages of the Proust. But if you read 1800 pages of papers you're gonna get an enormous enormous tree."

" And then wolf Beowulf in very long but it'd sell long time ago and a group of dark age scandinavians. Assault at night after night by the monster grand film as you write every morning they find more men dead in the -- hall he can tell us the appeal of Beowulf. Bill for instance one of the start Leo's books of all time."

" It's very short it's only seventy pages has incredible action scenes. It's an expression of an incredibly macho culture so you read it and it's just all about how fate will take your brother. Your lawyer now the leader later he actual command and -- of -- and didn't survive and then you'll be taken. It's just much and you read in a Rockwell use our blood to spend a little bit since then."

" Okay who who will -- attract. A Milton paradise lost because you say. Milken's epic tale of satan two billion the creation of the world the fall of man and his deliverance by Christ. He's the greatest single prodigy of human ten."

" If you read and it takes oil and if you understand what Milton is doing with his poetry. With a set up with. The religious sentiments behind the -- you see it's just a staggering achievement the writing is so powerful. These stories so meaningful. Seen as often confused to be the hero because he's portraits of sympathetically."

" Well we have a meeting of some scenes most famous line from Milton paradise lost let's listen. The mind is its own place and in itself can make a heaven of hell a hell of heaven. What matter where if I'd be still the same and what I should be all the less than he thunder have made greater. Here at least we shall be free the almighty it's not built here for his NV will not drive less tense. Here we may rain secure and in my choice to rain is worth ambition though and held. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."

" But it -- the there was -- wants to say as. We all have many many tendencies that would make us recreate other -- fall or enemies fall. And we need to be reminded of those are not things that you do to keep yourself to happen. And a troop ID comes from a different form comes and selflessness. Comes in black -- Of course he was about to speak to students and community and planet so. Actually very interesting tidbit there you right in the history of man John Milton might well have been the biggest share. This is the -- you you might really despise Milton you might even despise sort of ideology behind pole but nonetheless it's going to impress you at every turn that's one of the most incredible thing about -- his fervor. The forces his piety. The strength of his arguments and just the absolute captivating. Storyline. You you can't help but be blown away and Lou why -- he says to jerk. Well he went blind in his early twenties. And he he called himself a church one during that. The religious controversies of seventeenth century England so he clearly didn't think anybody else -- what you're talking about. He you know he was just he was smarter. More arrogant. And and more proto -- and you know perhaps. Anybody of this century."

" We mentioned paradise lost you feel its greatest single prodigy of human hand but as you say some say Leo Tolstoy toward peace. Is just the world's greatest novel period. But it looks like half a loaf of copper nickel and weighs about twice as much. How do you make UA to a --"

" Honestly it's not that hard to read there are few sections that are a little tedious some stuff on period history and may be a little bit too much detail about some of the battles. Although some of them -- incredible. But ultimately what you see with both Democrat and warranties. Is that -- it's pretty easy going he's never obscure. The language is never that -- difficult but it's just a steady slow. Rapturous process reading him and what -- piece does more than any other analysts had its characters transform. -- characters develop spiritual needs and to be able to go along with the costs."

" Check my hand some of his other great book recommendations Charlotte -- is Jane Mary Jane austen's pride and prejudice Tony Morrison's beloved after the break. Can highlight -- we'll have tips on reading the classics. And today why can't Americans know that big coal lobbyists are -- the Obama White House -- Democrats. Cried foul when Dick Cheney kept this -- visitor logs secret. It's later back in a minute here and now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide on the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to here and now we're speaking with Jack -- an author of built on the beach his guide to making great literature enjoyable. Among the book to recommend James Joyce's Ulysses Marcel -- remembrance of things past legal tallest Tolstoy is war and peace. Jack -- and you're right though some say that warranties is the single greatest -- ever written you're would be for Herman -- hills Moby Dick. Love leader and you see it's funny."

" That's it it's it's tragic that people don't seem to realize this but I dare you'll do is read what anyone page of limited especially the first one reader anywhere and you'll find that. It -- of having a good time."

" Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth whenever it is a damp drizzly November in my soul whenever I find myself involuntarily. Pausing before coffin warehouses and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet. And especially whenever my typos gets such an upper hand at me that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street and methodically knocking off people's hats. Then I account it high time to get to the C as soon as I can."

" He's very very tongue in cheek he's he's. He's very plentiful and that there's an overriding sense of sort of joy and play and lightness and levity that companies like the deep philosophy and the great adventure story. And all spiritual meanings of Moby --"

" Then there's 100 years of solitude and get real Garcia Marquez here's a little of the beginning. Many years later as he faced the firing squad. Colonel -- Indiana win DO west to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice. At that time -- out it was a village of twenty Adobe houses built on the bank of the river of clear water that ran on a bed of polished stones which were white and enormous like prehistoric eggs. The world was so recent that many things -- names and in order to indicate them it was necessary to point."

" Here you've just seen and not be able to find the words to say how great you think this book is a novelist arches above and beyond all others. Covering them in its clips like the sequoia does a sampling. This book reaches me where I zip where I button -- where I put on how. No there's no book they can teach us more. Why."

" Because it's a sorrowful of humanity and her whole life and wisdom. Its characters are incredibly deep and incredibly moving and and just. Even though they'll share the same names they have -- have a profound range so. You'll find people and all and such a range of a human situations. Responding at the deepest level of feeling and wisdom I just think that. It's incredible document about being alive and being human being he closed the book with tips on reading classics. Give us a few for so I think you should read slowly. Not -- speed reading and try not to -- go by without. Without really. Really focusing on as much as you can they won't always makes cents on everything especially in someone like sorts. But it's amazing if you don't let yourself scam at any point later. Potential waiver. It's -- find yourself getting enormous amount more out of the book so when reading for pride and prejudice or. The old new testaments take -- time. Yes or take your time bring up and humor and I wanna have to revealed -- too many times -- should underline your favorite parts speaking of confinement."

" Also on the list watch for irony humor puns turns of phrase -- defined in for instance can very tales. But they're there."

" They're definitely there no end as as our wonderful things like you know -- asserts -- crossword puzzle questions scrabble words you know there's a -- you can pick up incidentally if you you know if you if you read slowly and pay attention and maybe keep notes on the side. And -- pick the right addition I don't know for stroll. It's important be careful about."

" Taking additions from aligned because normally they're public domain they're often translations that are out of date. And that that can really be a disaster with with foreign texts. If you're gonna have say Shakespeare you want the notes to be at the bottom of the page instead of at the end so there really accessible. But at the same time we don't want them to be too academic because you know that that's -- become cumbersome and getting the way so. They're just look around see what feels right and at the end of the day you're you're gonna be the best arbiter of what you need. You're gonna even be the best arbiter of what's the best translation in front. Given her -- read through the world view and feels really good and that's the translation you should read even if there's a newer one or more things -- out --"

" there are fifty I'm looking -- dairy queen. Faust went into bleak house to the lighthouse. Pick five. The five that I think you're gonna get the most out of would be creditors salters. Warranties. Moby -- bleak house and Paris lost. Well and that should take huge. We'll take a good solid your -- her personally here. That's our project learning him his book is build on the beach you went to load of -- to -- fifty greatest hits. Check thanks so much -- accretion. Let's just take a second to squeeze in a few of your comments and corrections. Yesterday in discussing the missing Air France flight 447. We said it's black boxes. -- ten miles under the Atlantic well Robert Lee writes the deepest part of the ocean is only seven miles and that's in the Pacific. And mark havens of Lewiston Idaho and I think the Air France boxes or two to three miles and -- but what a shame they can't be found. We also spoke about lawsuits against the federal government's defense of marriage act with the postal worker in the same sex marriage. And an official of the gay and lesbian group glad now they are suing the government. As is the state of Massachusetts. Because the federal law denies legally married same sex couples federal benefits like health care for spouses. Even if they're raising a family well George shy Santa Barbara California felt we should've had a voice in opposition to same sex marriage. He writes. One can be sympathetic to appeals for equal rights at the same time one believes that children need to be raised by a mother and father and that trumps as a must. The rights of same sex couples. I really willing to our web site to another recent story with author Jeremy Adam Smith. His book is called the daddy shift. And in it he cites research from the American Psychological Association. That says that gay parents are raising healthy kids. And then all kids don't need a traditional parent as much as they need a support."

" System of adults who love them we'd love to hear from you go to here now dot org and click on contact sending email or call. An army to comment right there on the home page. And Monday on here now confirmation hearings begin for Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor is on our watch. So we'll bring it to you -- Monday he still ahead today the story of baseball greats who have paid to. -- after the news here and now."

" Is it cyber war that's what computer experts are asking. On July 4 a bot -- was activated that's a network of tens of thousands of computers worldwide. Hijacked by a computer worms so that it becomes sort of zombies. They began bombarding web sites in South Korea and in the US including the Treasury Department the Pentagon in the White House crashing website. Apparently no major damage has been done that some sites in South Korea are still down. Officials in the US and South Korea say the attacks appear to have been launched from inside North Korea. Ira -- president of Internet security advisors group a former analyst. With the National Security Agency and author of the book spies among us so Ira. You're thought is this cyber war."

" Frankly it could be I really think that's certainly a relevant question because as it is it's one side because I don't think we've retaliate. It's such a poor attempt at a cyber warfare attack so that it really I mean it seems more like -- in facility doing. National government."

" You'll know why why why isn't this in your opinion as sophisticated attack."

" Well just for example it was lost on July 4 very symbolic and very however the problem is is that. Why attack the US government web site on July 4 when nobody's going to be looking at them. Which is on a Saturday as well which means you can see where the damage is coming from and start mitigating the damage by the time you need -- up on Monday morning. So that's a very poorly planned out attack and you know attacking web site you know it's like -- that National Security Agency web site was attacked. Did they know they don't do anything whether there's hundreds of other operational systems you could -- attacked that would have had eight. Serious effect on operations in the United States and South Korea although they are attacking from South Korean banks but. That means it's like you can get accurate count over the Internet he can still walk into the banks and do what you want."

" Well so it's not as sophisticated. To sort of you seem to be sniffing industry group is -- but you say that Internet service providers. Can stop these attacks and they should. Facility is hard to do it it's to -- you know if you think like the seat to us."

" Yeah wolf frankly you know let's let a let me use this analogy you know what's his cars let's say somebody says we wanna cripple New York City. By driving in millions of you goes to New York City. And so you can't get over the bridges and through the tunnel -- will be able to block -- well let's say a police officer in Dalembert -- he says well we're although you those coming from their coming from the factory over -- Well we can't stop them because it's a public roads they see something similar in light coming out of Toronto. Means -- something similar coming out of Boise Idaho. You know it's easier for the people in Boise Idaho Toronto and Dalembert tendency to stop that the source the politico. Could this is not normal traffic that there's a couple of systems that are spewing out basically garbage data very specific type of message that. You know that's. Basic to the Internet but you shouldn't see millions of them coming at a single computer such relatively easy to start. And you can also see these types of packets going across the Internet and they're called data packets that you concede them and you can stop them if you have the will to do itself."

" And and it would you -- that should be there ought to be a long half. It is not the will."

" Well normally debt. He would think that this would be good practice because jets for example. That wrote that Tennessee would be flooded with all the -- coming out of it and it's you know it impedes. The tendency broad. Likewise -- impede the Internet service providers that are facilitating this traffic going across."

" So to be in their own self interest to do this."

" Right but they don't wanna take any responsibility. For something that they have no responsibility for -- putting a burden on them. In theory that they otherwise it wouldn't have been ever most industries as keynote just hate regulations. And finally when something pops up like that they say oh don't worry we'll try to do something about it Will Self regulate and you know they've been saying that for two decades now so so."

" Well I'm I'm smelling that you that's the direction and I wanna go an entirely clear president of Internet security advisors group also a former analyst at the National Security Agency. And just we have ten seconds Arabic it's not North Korea could PBS kids sitting in his bedroom and some other country."

" I started the kids sitting in his bedroom possibly even in the United States but more likely eight. Well actually I doubt it North Korea because North Korea is very controls."

" Right -- thanks so much thank you okay we can take a 32 break and come back with a look at the Obama administration's transparency. Here and now."

" The first memorandum that Barack Obama signed as president was to address what he called too much secrecy. It was aimed at achieving quote unprecedented levels of openness in government. And this month the White House launched a website and blog to solicit public opinion. On how to change the way the federal government classifies documents. But they're charging that all this has amounted to is change you can't access because they say too often. -- Obama administration has adopted the same legal arguments. As the bush administration. And Weisman is one of those critics she's chief council for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Or crude. And we noted specifically you're unhappy with the Obama White House's refusal to release visitor logs. But first give us your overall thoughts on this bush Obama comparison. Well."

" I think unfortunately the comparisons so far works much better than we would've hoped. Certainly based on in the campaign promises of President Obama. The memorandum that you referred to that he issued on his first full day in office we expected that we were going to see a really radical sift. And so far our experience unfortunately has been to the contrary. That in case after case President Obama and his administration. Are carrying on the same policies that the Bush Administration carried on with respect to secrecy in the White House and in his administration."

" A couple things Michael is -- writing in Newsweek points out that that memorandum that were both speaking of the call for transparency had a -- that people aren't noticing. Which said that there should be transparency except when a case might involve pending litigation. As you -- know there is a lawsuit pending against the bush administration for withholding their visitor logs crew your organization brought that lawsuit. To -- the White House say you know our records might be involved in that case as well and so we must withhold them."

" Well the answer. To that question is actually no because that's -- lawsuit is limited to the visitor logs and records of visits to the bush White House. We have however now filed a new lawsuit this time asking for visits by coal executives to the White House. And the Obama administration in response. Denied their request taking the very same positions that the Bush Administration had. That is that these are presidential money -- records and otherwise can't be disclosed to the public."

" And -- so as -- bush Arab controversy stems from an attempt to see if oil energy executives visited the bush White House. And as you said you know into sitting coal company executive visits. To the current White House what -- spoke about these issues during the Bush Administration every expert we talked to says. There is no president in the world. It's going to give up executive power in other words if one administration the Bush Administration claimed this. Power to hold onto White House logs in particular. The next president is."

" Not gonna give it up and this is a concern we had from the outset. And as you pointed out I mean this an incredible irony year which is that the Bush Administration was criticized including by then Senator Obama. For the secret meetings that they had with energy officials in formulating their energy policy and now we have that same individual who's now president. Refusing to tell us who he and his staff are meeting with. With regards to their energy policy and clean coal will we spoke recently with James -- of the daily news in New York. He successfully received transcripts of interrogations. Of Saddam Hussein. Now support Obama pointed that as to transparency. I'm not suggesting that unknown level is this president transparent and you started -- as saying they've taken advantage of a lot of the new technologies to try to open government. Unfortunately though what we're seeing is that a lot of their transparency seems to be of their -- to -- And on issues that I think really go to the heart of what it means to be a transparent administration. They're really dropping the ball. Mean I think the thing about visitor lines is the imagery there I think is really quite powerful it's the equivalent of some of building a wall around the White House by saying. You know on the one hand we're trans parent but we will not tell you anyone who enters the White House for any purpose whatsoever. Well we're holding Secret Service visitor logs. Is not the only area in which the Obama White House has taken a position similar to the bush white house on transparency. Another important case involves the FBI interview with Dick Cheney about the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame identity. Just to -- a similar in that it all started when. Congressman Waxman who was then head of the house oversight committee. Asked the attorney general for the transcript of that interview with well as the interview that the president given the FBI. And the attorney general then attorney general Mukasey refused to turn over. The interviews. We followed up with the Freedom of Information Act request for the interview up the vice president. And not surprisingly the Department of Justice took the position. That the public with not entitled to any of it. And then the new administration -- and and it's seemed to us that this really was a prime caves where they could in Shannon. You know change course and agreed to make the transcript available for the public. And they have not. And it was really interesting in a recent court hearing. The judge with almost incredulous and and questioned Department of Justice lawyers as to whether or not the new administration. And really considered. The position they were taken immense reassurance that yes the change of administrations made no change in their position. And the Obama Justice Department found the memos just last week. Saying its release the interview Dick Cheney by the FBI. Would -- public officials not to cooperate with criminal investigations in the future. I think that's really extraordinary because what they're saying is that future White House officials. Will be unwilling. To cooperate. With a legitimate law enforcement investigation. And I think on its face that's an astounding proposition. Shouldn't there be. Some ability to keep the conversation. Confidential for national security. Absolutely and their hands let me be clear I certainly recognize that the president deserves. Privacy both in conducting his business of state that there are times when he needs confidentiality. And in this private affairs but. He is after all an elected official. And generally speaking I think the public has the right to know what you thought to. Are you surprised. That the Obama White House is seeming to walk lockstep with the bush administration on this issue. Yes I am surprised because it's such a disconnect where is their stated policies and promises that they have made. We hope that it's still early enough in the administration that they can reverse course we hope they will. But we are surprised and deeply disappointed. That's in weissman chief counsel for -- Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Thanks so much thank you."

" Monday and here now you say your trying to wean yourself off bottled water to go back to the cap will tell you how to find out how -- water is. And finally if you know the biggest selling bottled waters are from a -- this Monday. Back in a minute with a great baseball story about a digital screen here now."

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" Welcome back next Tuesday President Obama will throw out the first pitch at the Major League Baseball All-Star game in Saint Louis. One wonders if we realize Satchel Paige ever imagined it would be such a moment. After all -- page -- in his prime as a ballplayer as the brightest star in the negro leagues in the 20s30s and forties. The league baseball had a color barrier and it was whites only. That finally changed in 1947."

" Exactly."

" Satchel Paige is in his forties when Jackie Robinson made his debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947. By then page had twenty years of pitching on his slingshot like right arm. He did you make it to the big leagues in 1948 when he signed the Cleveland Indians but his Major League career was limited to parts of just six seasons. Still in 1971 pages inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown New York. The first player honored for his outstanding play in the negro leagues rather than a major --"

" So I guess all that. -- medium. Hit -- was. Somewhere. And handed me back my recommendation for all of beauty. But the look I'm not I don't -- actually made again Maria that kept -- guard."

" Satchel Paige who died in 1982. Journalist Larry ties out with a terrific new book about Satchel -- it's called satchel the life and times of an American legend. Here now Alex -- spoke with Larry before recent book signing at the historical society in Lexington Massachusetts. Alex asked him if there was a connection between this book and his earlier book about the Pullman porters the African American railroad man."

" One of the places. -- I became intrigued about Satchel -- I grew up hearing about him from my father returned to Red Sox game and realize. That he'd like most people only -- an inch deep but Satchel Paige and I got an -- deeper than that. And I spent the year -- traveling around the country talking to each in Pullman porters. Who gets her -- so he would ride the trains with his teams particularly in his later days Majorly. And who would doorsteps. He may have been at that time. The most venerated. Black man in America. Partly because he was such a great athlete and partly because he was such a sensational. -- and and a crowd figure. What made him so special as a as a pitcher he had two things we're quite extraordinary one wise he threw the ball so fast and hard. If it's catches would have to put -- beef -- between their hand in the baseball gods that they wouldn't end up with burning hands at the end of the game. He -- with such accuracy. -- he'd go out before the game. And throat cannot -- pitches over postage stamp. He would put down on home plate. The idea of combining speed like that with control like that. -- durability. And left forty years. If something that baseball fans who argue from here to. And the end of that you have millennium over with the best pitcher of all times ones there's no question. The best pitcher for the longest time the Satchel Paige."

" He was very good that creating his own legend as well wasn't and you talked about -- throwing the ball over the posted step on the food stamp on the plate. He set I think I can take the frosting on the cake with my fastball he was very good at creating himself as a as a sort of a legend in his own time."

" He was in two ways -- he was eloquent can effect things like what you just said he said his most famous statement that continent of Bartlett's book of quotations was. Don't look back something might be gaining -- you so he was eloquent. He had. The facts in the performance to back up his votes. And he needed to in his election in a way that guys like Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams didn't. -- was black he was playing for his prime years in the shadows of the Negro League has racially segregated world baseball. Few reporters and not nearly as many fans as we're watching the major leagues around here and so he had to create a little bit of mystery to a tiny bit of embellishment. To make people realize he was on par -- these great white stars who reporters. Create -- religion for."

" Remind our listeners just how important the negro leagues were him in the black community how big -- deal that was four. For them to go see a picture like Satchel -- aqueduct like you'd hate pew."

" Sunday negro leagues and in cities all across America. It was a time when women got out your best shoes put on -- mink stole and two week preparing their here. Man took out their patent leather shoes and straw hats. Ministers like church utterly not just set the congregants could make it to the baseball game until they could make it."

" And every -- Sunday baseball game featured Satchel Paige this --"

" Black society it was a one time during the week -- African Americans could let down their care. Really. Put aside all -- that they had to sign for the rest of the week and just beat themselves with your friends and neighbors and watch wonderful. Parties based."

" Why wasn't Satchel -- Bill Black ball players across the color line why was it Jackie Robinson it seems like Satchel Paige would have been. He was there certainly was talented enough why wasn't him."

" He asked that question himself when the announcement was made Jackie was signed in 1945 Branch -- to break the color barrier. -- started out with a perfect PC answer he said Jackie was -- right -- couldn't have picked a better. When he said that my guess is he was having an ulcer. That was not we felt what he said later on was. I'm the guy who got all these people looking at the negro leagues. I'm the guy who got all these people looking at my Kansas City monarchs team and their second string second baseman Jackie Robinson. I'm the guy -- have been first."

" in Red Sox territory obviously here in Massachusetts and he pitched his last game in the major leagues against the Red Sox in his pitching for the Kansas City athletics. This is in 1965. I believe Charlie Finley had signed him kind of as a publicity -- I guess to bring in some fans tell us a little bit about that."

" Final game essentially was set up in the bullpen. With a rocking chair with a nurse in a white uniform and with his personal waterborne and with all part of Charlie Finley was great showman -- here to show here. He thought that you would command to get bond. But -- filled the stands people -- there if he's so it's actually has always never disappointed. He was 59 years old which is exactly thirty years older than -- that. Even if teammates for saying this guy belongs in a nursing home here and on the time. There he goes out he pitches against the Red Sox team -- only gonna get hit. With Carl Yastrzemski. Shut them out in three innings comes back onto the field afterwards. In the lights the plate and everybody things that old -- Mir in tribute to him all of these tens of thousands of hands. Click on matches and lighters to basically say we cannot -- essential."

" In the end Larry tell what you think Satchel -- his legacy is -- what is his place -- where is his place. In the the pantheon of American sports heroes are American legends."

" In sports heroes he is the longest lasting great picture in the history of baseball in in the history of America. Starting with the presumption which I think it's true that baseball integrated before any other major institution in American society. Satchel Paige played a bigger role than anybody but Jackie Robinson and meet Jackie Robinson integrating this sport. If Jackie was the father of baseball integration essentially was undoubtedly grandpa."

" Very tight group is satchel full life and times of Americans and he spoke -- here announced its cash. For more visit our website here now about the war. Here and now as a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and he died. And round again have a great and then please join us again here and."

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