Title: The Signal, Season 5, Show 12.5, July 14th 2009 (JC Hutchins Interview)

" Yeah. Repudiates. You. Yes sir -- Martin purchase this special. -- You by the shipments can create -- She'll be with possession Latin."

" Now it's happened Byron black last thing. We're still don't just we'll we'll -- do it I mean. That's the breakdowns both loosen their -- by all. Maneuverability got to this man should I got. And -- disclose my."

" You're listening to signal this is a bonus episode it doesn't take complete support of our regular -- it's an extra. -- it's it's a mix of special."

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" You're listening to this. Steve and I exit twelve -- I for Tuesday July 14 2000. -- And this as you've probably gathered from the opening theme is a bonus. In fact it's our first punished. It is an extract us. Since I was last week -- thirteen will be next week. Now normally on the signal I write in some -- work. I'm not usually hosting this is my first time so please be gentle. But I'm really excited to be hosting this. Episode because the reason it's so it is. We wanted to bring you an interview recorded with -- I agents about his new novel personal -- there are. We also have a couple of premise -- topics. Before you run in the inner I think you need to you about it a couple of things. First it does contain minor spoilers for our -- they are off her spoilers obviously since JC was the one being interviewed. But for those -- eagerly turning completely well you can just show. Secondly this interview is being aired exactly accurately report. Normally when running your signal light to edit him down ultimately -- the tires you know hearing. That's. Because this is the only show we decided to just ran straight so it seems that equality it's not -- to what you normally hear in a show that's why. With all that's that we'll start interview after. It."

" Zach Taylor was an ordinary arts therapist. Until one day and he met patient Martin grace. A blind suspected serial killer. -- sacks on the run hunted at every turn by an evil that can read his mind. And knows what frightens him most. But you can help him become -- sex patients'. Health and survive the old swaps the dark matter. Personal effects don't aren't on mobile like juicy Hudgens and Jordan Weisman. Scott -- author of infected and contagious -- star guards are rocking genre bash that mixes mystery was psychodrama and serves -- and high. -- Coming June 2009. Visit the star guard novel dot com. For more details."

" Well the are so happy and thrilled to have -- today -- Fantastic and fabulous JP patches author of the seventh centrality. And as you look."

" Kabul everybody. Has -- not to appear -- contract. Is."

" Squeeze it -- often to have two great excused until it was talking view but it's great to have a good to have you on the signal again this is something new in Chinese that you do want to talk about. Yeah we're thankful I've I love -- and you guys know I'm I chatted with the guys a few years ago with the release of the seventh -- books Korean podcast -- And I'm a huge brown coat huge fan of what you guys do in and a big and blisters I know that the community is just. -- still thriving instill -- still chugging along and I'm just thrilled to be here. The whole we're happy to have you here of course or at least have been going crazy all day -- contract. Well you're big -- is it recently probably in the last like two or three weeks. Your book personal effects of dark art is now Al even print. -- beyond you know I'm you know as as ma I hope most of your listeners know I'm your best known for the the seventh on podcast novel trilogy. And that anything you'd think that that's seventh son spoke one and would work its way to print and be published. Before any other work that I'd written but in fact this supernatural thriller that I've written certain kind of think. House meets X files have a a spooky investigative. The thriller book and I've written called personal effects dark art. Was was written after seven -- is is the first to be published at my work. But. That is a little."

" You know back backward that you know."

" Yes."

" And I had the first thing I -- opening that was at that. Little description and that very happy that he. Happy."

" But at the slightest thing that was the first thing that I saw the first thing that I saw. Would like all the accessories. That come with this book. It's like crazy -- not to -- one -- over the map in the flood or one little old notes. -- played in all -- although public. I DNN. Personal letters and photos and the way it's all put together with everything like."

" It's all treated differently it's going to be on paper paper read it you'll really authentic and it just."

" Didn't want Soledad it really made me want to -- I would hate way to the story in the Clinton here and I know that -- now -- a little."

" Thanks. Well yeah you know Leo when I do things I like to do them big. So effective and how it -- and with public person with the actual personal effects that come with the book. Personal effects dark art you know it it's so funny because -- You know I was I. Got my copy a little bit earlier than everyone else and I pulled out the beast tangible items that you're talking about and I'm sure there will look -- dive into the craziness there in a minute. But what I did what -- all kind of folded -- and placed inside -- inside this inside the -- on the inside cover of the -- It's like a extracted it knows marveling at all these these these items and I began to unfold -- been placed them on the kitchen table. And by the time I was done the entire kitchen table was covered with these items after they've all been unfolded so that it really is -- it's not just quality because the staff does look really authentic. But it's absolutely quantity --"

" Yeah as it slowly as the killer -- made me like really wonder who this skylight and you know what's the connection look like policy aide the little death certificate and that might. How well I don't even know I have either carried historian like -- is going to be a ballot holy cow."

" That's great that's great NFL we were gunning for we kind of gunning for. And not only a couple of voyeuristic kind of experience in the story itself from the novel. Because it's written in first person and you know so you know there's there's the hero of the story -- Taylor is referring himself. To himself in the first person and were willing in his head and kind of exposed to a lot of a lot of his thoughts and and fears and insecurities. And confident throughout the book. But we also wanted to make sure that that was very much represented in this experience that extracting the items and unfolding them. This kind of voyeuristic feel where. You know. I don't know about you but in a while I may not look through people's medicine cabinet that the cocktail party I'll always want to turn it in this in this kind of -- way to kind of provide a safe and and find a way to do that where -- this -- this experience that you know would that that we did with personal facts star guard. Is indeed rooted in eight you know print novel. But -- of a story that goes from beginning middle pick and it's a very satisfying enough fun reading experience. But you know the with clues that are embedded in the text of the book includes that are found in these tangible artifact so we've been kind of you -- about. -- list and readers can go online and they can you know visit web site that looked absolutely authentic and blogs are written by characters in the novel newspaper stories and newspaper web sites and even you know hack into people's. Voicemail phone numbers and even hacked into and and and email account so I mean we've done everything we can't fundamentally blur the line between. If fiction and reality with this and also make sure that the reader. Kind of become a participant in the story because they are actively seeking out. Information that not only -- The hero of the book. Uncovers but other Earth's secrets that the hero may never discover -- was up with in the course of the books so they come out not only active participant. Participant but even wiser than the hero of the story."

" Exactly. So I read this. I was on vacation. You know and I like and say is that it made these miserable playing I'd like so not miserable. -- And -- it even though like -- comet flight in Oakland Eric Burke. And I couldn't call the phone number I don't I -- cops but it the first thing I didn't have my -- turn on an island at. Yeah it's really cool that I mobile phone number I was like oh my god. Act because that he would put going oh my god oh my. That was that was that check it out -- really fun experience and this."

" Something and that something I have and it's and as someone who has been initiated the lenient I've been. In this world for the past two years and of the bill the ball got rolling on personal -- are back in 2007. So I'm always overjoyed when not only do like here that people are kept pursuing you'd be out of book experience we've created. But but but that there really excited about it I mean because. You call this number just like you said -- You can hear the voice mail greeting of one of the characters in the book and and if you got the -- you can listen to their voicemail they have been recorded on there on the."

" Old and it's fantastic. Added that it totally beaten the experience that you get so much more adopted and the -- cool it's not just the book. It's something that your experience. So right Rangel and I."

" I think this kind of thing done before not -- the -- you know the like with some video games and kind of."

" The TV -- heroes kind of little little bit with some real life you intersect here that fresh food crossover. But I've never seen it sort of -- by a book and I think it's just really cool and very teaching. Now what looked anxious and."

" So and I wish I could take credit for this kind that the initial concept. There's there's a guy named Jordan Weisman who is a legend in the gaming community. Four and I know that since we've got so many M listened to many brown -- are also role playing -- fans and comic books banned in gaming fans. If they may have heard of the come to the company called that saw as -- as safe -- which was founded in the eighties. A Jordan -- that role playing game company and in the nineties he went on to create some eight tabletop Alex superhero combat game called. Battle clicks military hero clicks. Which is really cool and then an Indian as we went into the -- into the ought straight in the 2000. He teamed up with Steven Spielberg himself. To bomb promote the release of Spielberg's movie eight I. I do things this of one of these one of the first and certainly the most ambitious of -- time. -- what is now called an alternate reality game and these that these of the game that lets just mentioned you know things that promote the heroes like you're here I think it's -- 360. The loss experience I'm older alternate reality games include. I love bees which promoted halo two is release on the Xbox. And -- even more recently the Dark Knight had AM. They alternate reality game that a company that and just like you guys are saying come. You know these are these are almost almost like scavenger hunt like X near their experiences where. You know the community a community get people community of fans had to get together and it attempts to solve. -- puzzles or riddles or mathematical equations. Or simple simple -- you know deduction from time to time comments since deduction. That will unlock the next stage the next web site -- the next web page. Of this -- experience that often unfold online so yeah I mean that they in this kind of thumb and in Jordan Weisman. Then pioneered that he's a founding father of that story telling medium and in 2007 he went to saint Martin's -- and that. I got this really neat idea for a series called personal fax what you think. And then after they worse is smitten by the idea they needed to find a writer and they found me. And."

" I can think of a better right area therefore I call it -- I guess because you know you kind of been honest. You they had several other people who we've talked a lot about and have been on the edge of kind of new media. And in terms of books. And what that means you know at you guys all got started with the podcast -- with a ball moved into print and you know you're just kind of moving to the next. Stage which is -- interactive print what what."

" Thanks for -- and you know I think there's I think there's some you know some some cool and cool angle there is that. Of course as as they under published or not unpublished novelist I was looking for. You know the -- terrain I would always dreamed of getting in mainstream -- publishing deal. For seventh -- which actually happened after we nailed down. Personal -- dark art. But here I am with with personal effects dark art you know writing it and kind of living living the dream. But also the publishing industry is looking for really interest in ways you you know keep what. What they do in the minds of people into kind of expand the boundaries of what they do not only with promotion -- Distribution business and I'll let other boring stuff but actually really interest in storytelling so. You know my what I what I've been really delighted with -- that in my relationship -- and press has been very mutually beneficial in that. I am continually kind of telling them about the social media space new media and podcasting. Doing stuff like this the importance of -- chatting with. Really cool really engage people and you know what the signal doesn't have the same kind of our audience size let's say. NBC nightly news break yet but right now. I just barely just barely noticed this. But but but. Yeah. You know let these bad but the fault but the brown coats are my people and you know we have to pursue people who you know -- get the word out to folks who I. Absolutely. Embrace not only great storytelling but new ways to tell stories and so you know I'm bringing that to the table and there actually schooling me on this kind of large cumbersome big publishing industry's stuff that they do and if so it's been it's becoming a nice little knowledge sharing for the past few months. -- that's cool. Thank -- hear me now don't do that if you can't get you know plug. I have a question about that about all I know I've been just harping on about the effects but that because they're so awful lot out of this but. If this book is published in an electronic -- how will you distribute it back. It's a really good question and I and I don't know if it's it's it's certainly a question that I can't afford -- answer because. As as kind of -- while I helped. You know concede the characters for the story and helped. Certainly I wrote the novel and and plotted out you know kind of like a long term character arc for a great many of the characters including Zach Taylor that. The art therapist hero of the story. All I don't own -- the rights to this stuff it it would be like me writing a east you know -- book inspired by fireflies you know for -- for higher. I couldn't always need those characters that's and that's the job bank. But I could certainly you know you know have fun while I was in there. Until I can't answer with a forty however I don't know. And don't think that there -- Plans. Four in electronic version or. An audio book version I was pushing really hard to do a podcast and novel version of personal effects -- Arafat will be a lot of fun. Armed but but when you kind of fixed and you completely -- That's very curious very tangible experience of not touching these items and and even. To the point of stealing them like that paper field aged you know basic specific paper types were selected not only further cover but. The ballot for the color. But they're texture. And even like the real plastic credit card the public system and you look a minute really felt like -- it's real plastic the all that stuff thumb is is you know. Considered by my keepers to beat mission critical. Elements of the story. So I don't know if we'll ever -- an electronic version of personal effects dark art. I think that you could probably port that. To an electronic. You know experience or podcast novel experience with digital downloads but it's certainly wouldn't have the same kind of -- role and come. Real frankly that the sense of reality I don't think would be as convincing as it is when you hold that stuck in your."

" I think I agree with you because that was I -- that was another big Mac at -- set it on of the big kicker for me was getting at and you know looking at all that that's been get getting excited about actually reading this story. And then not part of it was like oh my -- the driver's license -- look like a real driver's licenses or credit card feels like Errol credit card you know so. Without going public the title my gosh I don't think you can it'll run it and."

" And bones and the attention to detail that we're dedicated to those personal facts and I don't mind talking about it because it did that it is such a different experience. But but those the the authenticity. On beyond just that the texture. Pump but the actual look of them -- the appearance of them is is very very authentic to the point where when you flip that credit card over. It has been signed by the character get elevated to play today it's that attention idea to veto that really blew me away when it. Finally saw the final versions yet will have a I was going through all the -- I found myself you know. I think every new would like a new would be scribbled on the back of something. Or whatever I like I had been examined carefully. Isn't that interesting and it's it's almost like elect except it's almost like going through someone's wallet or you like act. I -- box filled with the dead relatives you know personal items where. -- you know you know very little if nothing about the person who you're you know you you whose -- you're slowly kind of sinking into you as you as you look at those items an -- interestingly -- and that that's kind of a part of that the plot of the novel. I guess sacked Taylor the hero of the story does indeed find themselves doing exactly what we do when we call these items. He's kind of mystified he doesn't mean he can't quite make sense of them at first and he slowly sinks into the life of marketing grace. His blind patient that you know who's a personal effects of these items."

" So I -- you talk a little bit about -- In the book yeah. Because. So not only do you have a legal cool factor in here but the paper that the book a trip non. And you know all the pictures -- one -- and in the -- first look at that tape record the paper was really cool I thought I would sneak blue -- I'd like it's not just like a normal page. --"

" Right yeah it's it's really kind of interesting. You know it because because because the adventure is written in first person. And because -- from beginning to end we wanted not only the items that we help with those those personal effects that we touch and hold. You know are completely attended to feel like found objects but we also -- at the reading experience to be one of -- kind of experiencing reading. Someone diary that you found another found object and so yes indeed European the interior pages are -- almost like loosely paperwork. And they if they get they've been given the appearance of being kind of sustained."

" And so then you know. When I let it one of the picture he had gotten like paint around that that -- Like political notebook exactly. Exactly. And yet the couple bit about that are bad in here I mean. Per mile but glad that the excited to him that it would. Factory. Yup and the amount and that's the that's the intent you at."

" Social actually one of that the very first designs for the the cover of the book was actually gonna look like a like a battered case I'll notebook -- And and the idea was that these with the kings notes that were that -- had written up probably for himself. And and just kind of the tucked away in two. -- desk drawer somewhere. The that the couple weeks we did -- later changed the cover because we thought well frankly would sell more books with the new cover and what prop we were probably right. But but but in the deep as the entire experience is indeed supposed to be you know it is as a possession of -- And -- confessional or a or it kind of unclear how up. Official this document that we are reading is. However I'm because sacked Taylor is an is an art therapist at this dead end like rundown. End of the line a mental institution called blink sale psychiatric. He is also an artist and so there are not only you know not only do you get that. -- that that lined paper feeling but he will often express himself. Through the art through through artwork and we've learned about this and we read about this in the book. And that artwork actually comes with the book printed in the book and there are specific gum pieces of art. That that exact you know creates during the course of an -- that we can actually see kind of you know. Drawn at the bottom of the page or -- something that takes up. Quite a large but -- space on the page. And these are intended to be kind of like not only does his words with his visual journey through the events of personal effects dark art. And patent. Cool thanks like you know I I still wanna give whoever -- I'm I'm certainly not the artist I didn't do any those are the bit -- artwork but a lot by them -- can get my way. Fat sloppy kiss from the actual good."

" I -- look at the number of times where they he I think -- trying into the chapter. If there's sometimes where they're trying directly into lake something that he talked about drawing what was this the third the fourth chapter worries. Sitting under the treaty into all -- And mum and -- were restoring -- Republicans get impatient but we have -- yet but at the end that chapter you see the picture of it there's the ask -- but he drew."

" Right right where's -- you know is is not -- and the -- and that's kind of you know kind of you folks. Visceral kind of character trait that Zachary as where on the east is clearly a talented artists and seems to be very gifted at. Being a you know people and frankly at nearly brand new art therapy -- first kind of professional gig in the profession. They seem to be very counter that that. But he seemed to be kind of touched with. With something with an edge of darkness with a secret with the pats have some kind and he is certainly. -- certainly is kind of a victim to its knees. So there is like an early very early on in the book when he's kind of Reading about his new patient. But hasn't met him yet yet -- a -- like. Don't want to a trance like state where he starts to sketch you know the basis of of the character and by the end that has nearly ruined the characters. He you know portrait because. This subconscious desire to kind of you know -- more black. You know met -- more darkness to the image. You know is in there. And then of course not I wrote all that and then I open up the book and I'll be darned if that picture isn't staring me right debate -- how cool is that the."

" We are just too pretty good on the Linux. Welcome welcome."

" The first fields in the."

" Specific test down."

" Www. Tales from the first. Can't take anything podcasts. -- do you."

" Can't stop the serenity 2009. Worldwide charities screenings for equality now. Just -- in serenity is on the big screen again to benefit his favorite charity equality now. We've raised over 250000. Dollar since 2006. But we need your help again. Also featuring the theatrical debut of doctor horrible sing along ball. Visit can't stop the serenity dot com to find a local screening near you."

" Yeah."

" I'm Brad I'm Glenn and eat and work from the -- go to podcasts and culture dot net. Right now you're listening to the signals one of the premier podcast about just --"

" Firefly serenity clinging down the canyon and yeah it was a monkey didn't kind of -- about that -- culture and act now and -- but it's. The best friend and."

" From any -- shows grade -- movies and everything else amid seamless comics and video games will be rambling on the left whatever happens he's going on in our heat or. -- segments like what's in your dvd player Britain France and he was seen. Along with the occasional special musical -- something mitigate an assault. And eat like in an actor Alec Klein had a better WWW. Much culture that NN Todd Helton. "

" Yeah. Eat."

" Be seeing if."

" One of the things that I really like when I read. Our you know."

" Air personal relationship. Between -- characters and this guy has got these backtrack. Personal relationships. Yeah he does doesn't it couple I didn't find Big -- and kudos on that on that bit because I didn't find any of them could be. Unbelievable. But that's excellence and a -- you're reading in reading everything golf lucky at grade and fantastic. And now I didn't I didn't find out any of them may they all seemed really believable as well."

" here here and you know it's yeah it's the solid this kind of creative challenge and you know is as brown coats we see this -- we we obviously see this in in in serenity and are like for instance. Where you know there are each character archetypes where you have be wise cracking sarcastic character is and often it's wash right. Right or you know an -- in you have you have like the believe the flawed leader you know now in this case it's it's it's is back our army hero. And you've got be assertive yet you know occasionally honorable. You know female -- female lead in you know there's there's. You know is so -- in in in serenity in in in personal fax it to -- ex girlfriend. And he always got to have a big bad. Okay we've got a he'll be able to choose the heroes -- for breakfast and that is smart and graceful lines serial killer who is whose next patient. And one of the things that I wanted to do -- be able to. You kind of work within those archetypes. But creates you know so so that you know it is familiar because those architects are familiar to -- his readers or you know consumers of entertainment. But give them enough believability -- and kind of you humanize them and away that not only makes them men memorable that makes them. You know honorable so for instance no exact Taylor who seemed to via a goody two shoes boy scout almost in the beginning of the of the book. As a very interesting kind of descend into. Personal no personal crisis and is haunted by its own mistakes that he's made in the past which comes. Which not only seem to haunt him through this book but actually kind of helped him. At throughout the course of the book this kind of the kind of dodging past studies had an alien and Rachel -- his girlfriend who I love I mean I have the biggest crush on Rachel. Yeah and anti spam pat and Rachel what I just I just -- personality because she is so the issue is that such and anchoring kind of them influence indeed be dreaming you know like -- Taylor. She's she's she's a rational and she's very you know very assertive. To the point win -- later on in the book actually kind of you know leaves her to pursue this kind of like you know I've got to go -- the belly of the beast I've got to solve this problem. I don't want you guys to come along because I'm protecting your. She called them up on and it's like well you know I needed no if we are together or not you know I'm gonna break up with you unless you must now tell me how this thing's gonna work out between you and me. In our relationship. And I don't think that like a -- board a cookie cutter. Character would say that -- and I always wanted to kind of make sure that we had those moments those very human moments in the book while they while everyone's running around from you know what demonic force that appears to be living darkness."

" Exactly and that --"

" Excellent thank you thank you that was that was completely Lee and I and I thought that she needed that actually needed a a whimsical side term --"

" And yet to show everybody else out there that not all girls can play games typically there."

" I'll mention a winner Rachel and carry every you know McNealy and it. Yeah actually -- new. Yeah we we tennis yeah I'm a."

" Let's I'm glad that the league sports think he didn't have a hip flexor injury."

" Oh my gosh I looked on still afraid to step on my Wii Fit board I'm afraid it's gonna tell me I'm sixty."

" kind married an -- Such containing they could put up a."

" The big board is harsh. Yet simple rule cruel taskmaster."

" That -- by the EA active game because that make it in London and then you are quite clear that he can't do anything per couple."

" Which defeats the purpose of having the week that -- but they backed the black and yet he digression into gaming. Yeah well it's good let's go to healthy it's healthy I don't want to sound like a shameless -- throughout the entire interview -- I don't wanna. Sound like ones yeah -- correct that the deal Lou. Illusion that I'm not disabled athletes' -- It it's."

" Policy I think if there's anything else that struck me. Other than twittering every -- our."

" I don't like how the talk them that was so cool to see that there was so flattering. Did you did you guys did you did you like he's the kind of supernatural angle of the book because I know I know that were like a lot of -- science fiction fans. Did you find the -- that angle to beat you know not only interesting but believable and you know compelling."

" But you. Did he get -- her. I'm not that far yet. But at TDD. Well I -- I belittling publicly and feel free to talk about because you know I did it couldn't -- have a very hot -- spoiler mercurial. Right right right you know and and it could carry it you'd rather not I mean I'm just I don't know I guess that if you let wanted to talk first thing. That I IEA IE. Big. He's got he had as a general rule I don't mind it is super natural mixed in with my type -- you know. Yeah let what do you can talk that it could you actually read that part and an automated elections last week promised. I am pure -- I have not. I eighty. I."

" Think it is just the right amount of via natural like any border would it then. Well this is unbelievable it is now like modern day in Leland in the real world -- You know I think that. People can identify with that. Feeling of blackness and darkness is coming spent. Almost everybody's at a low point. And that's kind of what epitomized for -- you list you know these -- kind of really little point and people live."

" I think I you and that's really that's a really kind of great kind of extrapolation of the vibe that I was kind of hope and forward that. It's not not only in my kind of a believer in less is more. And I don't mean less you and you are more or less than what -- You're awesome but any only asset you know that less is more I didn't wanna make this a -- book I didn't wanna make -- so horrific -- I just all of this to be it creepy and spooky enough. Tune in to keep keep you know it invested. And you know and that's the main hero in the book Zach Taylor Ian does indeed have a fear of the dark and even though. A great many of -- may have outgrown that fear. I think that we are. In our secret heart of -- all afraid of when the lights go out and you tried to switch and this which doesn't come on and you don't know where the flashlight as. And -- and you feel feel and I think we've all had at least one moment in our -- we -- watched in the dark. And I and I with the kind of like you know defy that wanted to tap into with this -- this villainous character called the dark man that we see him down. -- and I you know I think you did. Almost perfectly I'm not I'm not gonna be like a big Hancock. And I liked it will if if it was perfect could be a New York Times best -- stolen pickup -- I went to visit to."

" Yet -- In -- And but yet now I. What I wanted to know more balloting anti back. -- And sent. And now that you said that if this planet being like a planned kind of theories slip out of character everything and like me will get to -- that. Yes I think."

" I think you will on the note that this. The potential for sequel bonuses I think to sound cool way and trying to hijack people's expectations but. But it is true -- because publishing and that is that is that business. You know the potential of the sequel hinges greatly on. You know the the sales of the first book. But one of the things that I wanted to do an -- and -- exactly this was a creation of mine from the very beginning like I wanted him to. To have this kind of Spain in his past. It's something I'm a big. A big misjudgment that he made that seem to affect affect the rest of his life eventually for the batter but there was a time in his life where he. What the troublemaker where he seemed to break the law on on a regular basis. And has been scrapping for years to kind of get out of that place and to embrace. You know again didn't -- get right with the law if you will. And yet. They're these glimmers of these moments throughout the book where we hear about and -- back and dissect this. This you know kind of cool Alter ego that was so troublesome and is in his. Yeah in the years past. And while weak hand a great deal at what -- hit that past lives. Because we expected distant hope that this what this will continue to be a series we deliberately you know kind of eased off the gas pedal there. We wanted to make sure that that is mystery and this this great kind of -- that committed in the past. -- would be revealed in future books and probably in more than one book where we will probably learn about more about anti -- In -- to you in the -- learned what about fuel all of that and books -- that out a one of the things that I liked about anti -- is that. Zachary himself. Almost constant come to kind of a piece. About embracing this darker part of themselves -- by the end of the book. And and that's something that he had been keeping at more than arm's distance throughout the course of the books I thought that was a nice little what a character evolution entry. That now it has taken and I'm excited. I gave. A half weeny weeny -- we need our heroes to -- to have ships you know debt you know it's like it's like if it's Guitar Hero. You -- too perfect. And not believable and that's not interest and give give me I give me an old porcelain you know -- base over a -- something from Pier 1 Imports any date because that means that older and has more stories race. Right and you know acting brown -- while about a flawed here. Absolutely. We're -- and don't think that I wasn't inspired by some -- the killer you know invented slang that we saw in you know in in fire like one of the care one of the characters in the book of Lucas is actually a little brother. He in -- flying all the time in the hopes that. You know it -- flying will become mainstream -- it's like okay I took a cue from not only good old Jocelyn and in the the serenity burst. In in the creation of slang but also -- do my best economic. Keep up with. The banter in the great dialogue that that show gave us yep actually. -- ahead on lake effect he hit it off so I really like him and so good his interesting copy. The park corner gas. Yeah -- A park or absolutely it's -- heard -- it -- outlook and hard court is is is of really interest -- kind of you know I guess you know people seem to be calling it a sport. And some people called a lifestyle it's -- there's no kind of official competition for -- But -- it is it is this. This kind of mindset where. Your goal is to try -- first urban landscapes. As quickly and efficiently as possible. If that means racing up the wall and making a twenty foot leap onto a via fire escape. But that's what you do. If that means that you you know you score you scramble up a telephone pole to leap onto the roof of a barrage of -- that's what you do. It's all about you efficiency and speed. And so -- core I believe com kind of came kind of which I came to came to beat in Europe. And and a and a very popular park or artist. Tracer is what their call -- there's. He I don't remember his name but he kind of coined the term part cork and and it's. Grown in popularity for four years to the point where. You know in some urban landscapes here in the United States it's it's a pretty popular pastime. For young people who weighed less than me and have better reflects the -- Sosa gets a little bit seems to have like a couple of part corps buddies that he hangs out west. We we hear about the apple we don't meet those characters. And and see him kind of using his unique. Nearly acrobatic abilities throughout the course of the book the kind of you know traverse urban land."

" I thought I'd that was -- and then it fit perfectly -- you know making up fine and hoping that -- catches on and then he did you find other characters in the book he."

" that yet I'm Leo I'm living vicariously through Lucas I've always wanted to -- that other people used but it's never happened but it. But I like -- kind of going back to park core you know I encourage you and and and signal what's mr. That would go to YouTube -- RK who you are just too -- go to YouTube and and you'll see just how. Amazing. You know the real the real deal is and how inadequate in adequately. I actually describe -- court in the book it is it is. -- I can I feel like a completely failed at. England playing bending. Disagree that real people who do part core what they do you have."

" I was trying to imagine that I was treating. And get a little movie playing in my -- the area it was a things get everything I imagine it seemed like it wasn't humanly possible."

" Yeah what you'll find you'll find that now what what Lucas does it didn't sound waves you know is it kind of let it be if there is no there is one moment where he kind of you know does something on on a telephone pole. That on May be kind of impossible war nigh impossible to do but I'm telling you when you start seeing the video of a real hard core artists. You'll you'll see that I mean is it is absolutely imagination defying."

" Very cool -- he had thought things of that video before and it is a meeting women who. Yeah I'm handicap and and first for folks who may be James Bond fans like me. I believe at the beginning of the -- the one of the new -- of these casino Royale. There's like there's like but chase scene that takes place on foot. In the very beginning of the movie that like around a construction site and those part core artists were used for that particular scene. Here is the movie. At all. Yeah I know which one but I don't know the name."

" Yeah it's this like. Kind of scifi it's like futuristic and like New York that -- parent has -- quadrant and not I'm not really sure right. Ed these -- is like racing and I like writing on the wall like it's the floor that's that's part cork is that that yes. Yeah break an awful I did I know. I know that I did you wonder we wind that. Leo I'm -- like beat it the one -- and I mean an end and I."

" You know and I was introduced to park core. Probably a year before I wrote. Personal sex star car -- you know -- videos of it and I wrote personal effects in 2007. So I was always kind of afraid that by the time it was released in 2009 net. Popcorn would be dead and no one -- that's so that's so old school ever wonder what that looks bad. But people I'm thrilled to hear the people Omar still discovering and still -- it's still relatively fracture and a new thing for people to discover so it makes it creates the illusion that I'm on the cutting edge."

" Well you are because actually only like that maybe a couple of months now all right -- a good thank you I'm still discovering things."

" Would -- to let boldly could be of the three little -- if you read kind of the kind of look like we -- core. I. Yeah like -- didn't make like a wheelchair forest -- didn't appear at the Tibetan. --"

" That's -- Tell them well. And then just going out and about -- thoroughly enjoyed this. What will want the wanna touch on the we haven't yet."

" And I think it's only the most important thing we can talk about about the book. Where people get it oh my gosh people look at the --"

" I don't I don't right after. I don't -- right -- look here is the amazing thing in this is the thing that come as as a novelist. I you have got to kind of every time I say it. I take a moment to feel absolutely blast. Because and I don't wanna make -- like 22 teary either too emotional. But you need to understand that you know I've been working for years -- to get into plant. And I have. Depended on a great many people like you and and the the browns -- audience. And other podcasters in great folks just -- to help me spread the word about the book. So when I say that it is simple it is in bookstores everywhere. That's a really awesome achievement not just for me before. And you know does that. It's spurred new media podcasters podcast listeners. You guys who made this happen I'm I was just kind of riding shotgun at one point -- is in the bookstores everywhere and you can also order at find online book retailers such as Amazon and Barnes & Noble."

" Guerrilla marketers that weekend that. I think that would be fantastic. -- Catholic viewer like super super -- except solid."

" Making it in reaction. Well and then well you -- get my sincerest hope that I can one day afford. Not only to bring you and the that you -- You might mention that all of the starship of the signals to this the mythical mansion and I'll build on a mountain and we shall -- our cigars with. -- 100 dollar bills. We."

" Count them. That actually be really happy feet by just for the that you really can harvest and very very cool looking beach house sitting in Key West. I'd pull it out there."

" Iiroc. We won't do you believe -- public this -- house naked can be various you can you can just go there whenever you want. Dread lest lest -- learn things that were spending money that I don't have. I could ask Brady -- and how hot button I think about it and that Iraq had any I'd I'd had plotted out and he -- Unless you're sort of loyalty character. Guys the beacon how to -- that and I really can't. Well look guys as always there has been an absolute honor and pleasure to reconnect with you guys in and the browns coach thank you so much."

" Now thank you I think you're happy to have discovered yet. It didn't believe her analyst authors. -- have on myself."

" That yet is it it's so it's it's that we are to know that there emissary to kind of like you keep prolong this it's it's really kind of really interest staying in and cool to know that there are people who have word that I wrote on the -- is. Such a privilege and and so thank you guys think you some back and putting you right in between he and --"

" And like he'd rather be next America. -- not -- not I don't -- let's let people aboard that the boys the girls separate card because we know that the group of boys drool in the girls rule."

" Correct exactly. Now ferry dock here on myself -- think."

" And and and guys again thank you thanks so much -- make in the time and and for being such vociferous supporters Meehan what idea. No related to a year ago. This is you got us this."

" Well we hope you enjoy that. The signal will be act one week from now and will be regular show with all our usual sect so until then keep."