Title: Lightness of Being: Mass, Ether, and the Unification of Forces

" Today I'm delighted to welcome office began professor frank we'll check he's the -- out. Professor of physics here at MIT. I and the winner of the 2004 Nobel prize for physics. I'm delighted. To be able to say that I suspect will become obvious that in addition to his many. Accomplishments in physics about which he's much better equipped to speak than I am. He's also paid distinguished communicate science I think his most recent book the lightness of being. Hi I'm very well reviewed book bringing some. Often what are regatta despite difficult subject to a wider readership so we're doubly. The line that will write that happens and the -- let's go. Thank you we'll be okay."

" Well thought we'd be here thank thank you for coming in on this beautiful day. So what -- nice things about Cambridge's you get to see so many intelligent faces look. That the that the in the neighborhood and I'm glad to be here. So I I. Haven't prepared very elaborate remarks but I I've just. Some talking points to get the discussion going and I hope we can. Interact. So first. Obvious question what the heck did you get the Nobel prize for. -- the citation says something about us and -- freedom. Nobody knows what that means. So. There for a basic forces of nature there's quite gravity and electro magnet system. Which is the classic forces and then two forces that really only became evident in the twentieth century. When people started to probe of interior is about guns and an atomic nuclear. And these don't have such great names that just called the strong and weak force. The strong -- is the one that's responsible for making protons. And neutrons out of more fundamental objects quarks and glue ons and then for the protons and neutrons -- each other to make atomic nuclear. And what I did was figure out what the equation is the fundamental equations for the strong force are. And that's. That's going to and that's had all kinds of consequences as you know it's."

" Important to understand the fundamental laws if you're gonna it's understanding early universe if you're gonna understand. Matter and extreme conditions."

" It's nice to know what you're doing that."

" I've often -- also what's it like to get a Nobel prize. Well for me it was a very cold and wet experience. I thought it might be possible in 2004. Getting an overall prize but. And so I've lost sleep that night. But I thought the announcement. Would always precede the telephone call so I ran into public announcement was gonna come at 6 AM eastern time. Which is noon in Stockholm. So when ice tossing and turning it couldn't get to sleep finally at 5 AM I decided well I'm not gonna get to sleep. -- just in case media should take a shower so I'll be ready. So I got into the shower and and and that eleven minutes after five. My wife came with the telephone and I didn't hear any any -- 2000 shower. Said this there's a lady calling you with a beautiful Swedish accent thing she says she felt that she wants to talk to you in that. And that was it that was the the way I got informed. The other thing I didn't know was that it's not just a matter of they call you up and say congratulations. You've won a Nobel prize could buy. It's not that way at all. And they tell you about. How you're supposed to deal with the press about the practical arrangements and then people start congratulated. So I got congratulations. From. The head of this the Swedish academy the secretary of the Swedish academy the head of the Nobel Foundation. The secretary of Novo foundation and personal friends people who were on the commit committee and so forth so. Must have been ten or twelve people each wanted to give. There -- two cents -- And there I was shivering in cold and wet. And the phone but it was glorious. Let me be a little more serious than about back out to one gets to that point. There are many ways but my particular story I think is is instructive. And important for. The future. I am the second generation. Immigrant family my grandparents are all born in Europe. In Poland and Italy and we're really basically peasants. They came over here. In the full out of World War I. They had very little education. My parents are born in the US during the depression basically. Or shortly before the depression but grew up during the depression and and and struggle they have to support the family. Neither one of them went to college. But. They were very if that they were very dedicated and to the idea that we should do better. In the future. It's the classic American story and fortunately. We lived in New York City and New York City. Really."

" has -- a superb system of public schools I think go to any special school just the public schools in the neighborhood. But there are great teachers. The whole country at that time was mobilized for science."

" I think partly because of the memories of the atom bomb and how important that wasn't. Powerful science scene that spectacularly. Magic and powerful. Also because the Cold War was going on. And so we had a tangible. Rival tangible enemy whose. Challenge was largely. Technological. And because. Sputnik and particularly which really galvanize people as a little kid when sputnik was launched. But it pointed people towards space but also pointed people towards. The fact that. It wasn't clear that our our great country was anymore. At the top and science and so the whole. Country got mobilized and you could see this in the schools. Now I think we're facing threats which are every bit and challenges and opportunities which are every bit. As. Big. As those in those days but they're less tangible there's things like climate change what's our source of energy going to be. And on this opportunity sides. How we gonna exploit. The possibilities. Of advanced information processing. How we gonna develop new materials bird on dreamed of processes. -- we've learned so much about how matter works and that we've gained so much and power to solve the equations. That I think the opportunities -- limited it's just a matter of investing in having -- vision and imagination. That. Is worthy of them. Now let me say a few words about my current work and then we'll have to open the discussion. One thing I'm working on is. Something called actually guns. Actually on our. Eight particle that I named. After it detergent. It's a beautiful detergent cold actually on and I thought in the supermarket. And I said gee there really ought to be a particle. Named after they really it really sounds like a part sounds very scientific theory it wouldn't be nice if there apart like that. And so win there was a new kind of article that solved it eight. That cleaned up I should say a problem with an axial current. I could see that the stars moral line than this should be the acts the and fortunately I was able to sneak it past the editors of physical review letters and now it's the end. Standard name for this thing and it's still hasn't been discovered but the theory has gotten boring -- interesting. And in fact now. I think. That it's very likely another thing people think that it's at least. We're thinking about. That these acts the -- the dark matter. That astronomers have discovered. Dominates. The advance of the universe mean ordinary matter we've learned so much about it that you studying biology and chemistry and that we thought was everything. Until. 2030 years ago now we've learned is only about 5% of the mass of the universe as a whole. There's something else out there and maybe it's axiom so I've been thinking about. How that could have happened in the first place. And more important. How you test experimentally. For these very elusive. Very weakly interacting kinds of matter. Another thing I'm thinking about could be -- waiting for the LA city. You know there is. A great accelerator. Being completed now. And near Geneva at the cern laboratory called the -- had -- collider LEC. Which is going to concentrate. Unprecedented amounts of energies. In in particle collisions between protons. And we've been -- I've been waiting for this world more than twenty years to test some ideas about unification and super symmetry. And hold new worlds a phenomenon. That. Look very good and for which there's a lot of -- circumstantial evidence but will really only come into the wrong. When you have enough energy to actually produce the particles. And that should happen at the only city. I've also been thinking about what happens after the -- taken so long to build the so expensive and still. May not come off because of technological challenges. Is there -- next step what are we gonna do we need radical radically new ideas for probing. Extreme conditions. But actually -- spending most of my time on is taking ideas that were originally developed. For fundamental physics for trying to understand the most basic. Structures of matter which turn out to be empty space. For understanding empty space as a medium and ordinary matter us this sort of disturbances in that medium. To take those ideas over into. This -- talking about things that are more conventional media solids. And how to make them. Exhibit kind of exotic behavior. A model for this an analogy is a model for this is super conductivity. Which is something that. Emerges from. Ordinary matter when you put it in the right conditions but is something that. Is very hard to understand. And wouldn't it -- it. Clever if -- been predicted before it was discovered. That didn't happen but now we know much more and have much more experience and we can predict other exotic things. That should be possible and might be useful and I've been thinking about that kind of thing. Out of harness the possibility. Hidden possibilities of matter to do things like. Quant political quantum information processor and built quantum computers. Or may be. Capture light from the sun and more efficient ways. So that's what I've been spending most of my time on and I am also writing a novel. That about. What can tell you this the main idea. The main idea is that there for physicists. To from MIT -- from Harvard who nevertheless managed to collaborate. And make a great discoveries they discover what the dark matter areas and of its vaccines by the way. Right and so it's clear that they should win a Nobel prize for this however. The rules of the Nobel prize that at most three people can share. So somebody's gotta go. And then one of them seems to commit suicide but isn't that convenient and wasn't really suicide. So that that's the idea. And so with that that's -- I think we have a few things to talk about an hour. Opened up to your questions -- very much -- so it's it's W I can't resist just asking one very personal question is having decided to name. A fundamental -- author was of the bubble and detergent detergent Geisel wanted to sort of right did you ever. Get into the problem of trade marks -- as a as well. Quality of play I believe very strongly in something I learned from a jesuit. That he said he learned at seminaries. At seminary in this COLT. The just what credo within within the jets would order. And that is that it is more blessed to ask forgiveness than permission. The site -- NASCAR -- did it because I knew that if I gas they would've said no. That it is not waiting for better or worse the did the laundry detergent I believe no longer exists it's going out of business. Certainly in the US for a long time was developing in Europe but not humorous. And just so anyway the opportunity to us we get. Yeah well actually they did at one point. Raised the issue. And in. A book. I had that I we're mentioned actually -- I put little trademark symbols. But it was sort of like a joke because -- out and there's advanced scientific literature and which just just uses that as a common. World and so it's much too late for that trademark -- Okay thank you so up I might find myself in jail someday for that but."

" I don't know. I think -- let it slip and -- question you should wait for Mike otherwise we'll get picked out. Not least by the W deviate -- folks that your boy. So please I sore hand in the middle. Some -- for you Mike."

" I heard something about cold fusion coming back was running if there's any credence to it ColdFusion that."

" And there is the remote possibility. That there might be. Controlled fusion. If you can manage to focus. Energy into very small spot having sort of shockwaves. From collapsing bubbles things like that. But it's very unlikely to be economically useful. And it's what's first it was very unlikely to occur. But even if it doesn't care it's very unlikely to be economically even more likely be economically useful so. I think reports of the."

" A life of ColdFusion are grossly exaggerated. It could have. I. Think."

" You're doing to make capturing like more efficient I take it as an energy source this that would you -- throughout the I wish I could talk more about this but it's it's basically. Roughly speaking beat them that class of ideas. Is that you want to bills. Big objects but he wanted to to do the kind of trick that nature doesn't photo synthesis. But now to engineer so that you don't have to build the -- not to have put up with these trees. And things. And so the idea is to. Make. Objects that are big enough that you can control them. In a useful way but. It's small enough that they exhibit quantum mechanical properties. That make it possible for you to capture quantum of energy -- and keep them there in. Efficient ways. So that that's the kind of strategy basically. From both for quantum computation and for that kind of use what you wanna do. Is make. Systems that are big so they're not subject to quantum fluctuations so much and yet exhibit other characteristic. Behaviors of quantum mechanics such as. The the ability to those who propose different states gets its technical problems are but. This to propose different states. To take advantage of energy. Of barriers. And so. -- what people talk about quantum leaps."

" It's almost always wrong because what a quantum leap of real quantum leap is something that's really really small but I. It's so small that you sort of can't tell if it's occurred at all that's what's quantum of if you. But what we want to do is make things that have the quantum behavior so they leak. And also some proposed but where the -- are a bit bigger than in Adams or what comes naturally. So we wanna be able to do that controlled way can."

" Cannot just stand back fill out once they. I mean. Thinking about potential application -- solar energy is mention of that this is the obvious and natural path system. Right and their colleagues who are working on trying to engineer that living systems this engineering approaches. Some potential hostages that. You breaking this. -- saying. Front engine and it even more efficient. Using well using Apple's."

" Well frankly but they're approach as much more likely to succeed at -- But."

" just a -- there there working on sort of maybe five to ten year time scale -- right. What I'm doing as much war sort of changing the rules of the game and I don't know if it'll ever lead to anything useful but but sort of just. Seeing what's out there. This might it might turn out to be totally useless but you know I just I. Really what motivates -- is not directly the applications but just. Seeing the things that are fun and have mathematical potential that I can play well you know that's. Everybody. And in the well yeah -- good track record of things like this is very good. It well most you know most of modern physics of course it's completely useless."

" And that's also true most of classical physics so it has but every once in awhile there's something like. -- day's work. I'm just trying to understand what electricity and magnetism will -- about. And -- he discovers. Famously it is that the effect called induction."

" And he demonstrated this the London next -- X position I believe in 1851. From the notice of an early 1821 I think anyway whatever the -- as he demonstrated that. Fabulous instincts as to if you -- was the group that but yeah that any. And so we had this kind of apparatus for them active and things that whirled around. And people who did not but that this sort of hard headed guy at the -- the chancellor of the Exchequer. The guy who is responsible for money in taxes and taking care of the British economy at the time. Was not impressed he said what what uses this. And fair today said well according to one story he said. Of what uses a newborn babies. Maybe that's what he said according to another story however what you say this I'm not sure what the uses but I know someday he'll be taxing it. And and and that's turned out to be true if -- if this this induction effect is."

" What underlies. All electric motors and every household now has dozens of them on every modern household. -- power grid that takes energy from waterfalls or coal plants. -- the homes and so where everything is based on that. Seemingly useful use less effect. That for our day. And discovered it by investigations. Motivated just by curiosity got really. Thank you great example please wait for the night here comes."

" A question about the actually -- to -- could explain a little more and what is it about them that makes them a good candidate for the dark matter. Yeah okay well to -- really thinks that really do justice to it would take quite awhile. But. I can tell you -- the basic things first of all. What's the problem it's meant to solve well there's there's been a remarkable."

" Coincidence. Or feature of the world that seemed to be coincidence. That. People learn to take for granted. Until recently when when we sort of have developed higher standards for. Understanding the world. Which is that course and every day experience. There's a tremendous difference between. The past and the future. And time runs one way and it looks very different running the other way. But when you come to the fundamental laws look at really small things. The fundamental laws don't seem to care which way time goes to a very good approximation. If you look at particle collisions or how billiards tables bounds. And Adams are very accurate. Kind of ideal -- you polls. If you took a picture of all of that and then ran it backwards it would still Obey the laws of physics but still look like something about what's possible. So consistent with the all the laws. There are very very tiny exotic effects. That were discovered at accelerators that violate that -- but overall. As we learn more and more about nature. That's remarkable thing that. The microscopic laws looked the same run forwards and backwards. Has held up."

" Now in the it's 1970s. We developed a rather complete theory. Matter. Called the standard model to make it sound boring I call -- the core because it's great. And at the core of our understanding of nature. And in that framework. So we know what the laws are we know what the you know what what the -- that the principles are that underlines. The behavior of things that you study in the laboratory. And so we can investigate why. But feature of the equations is it that that makes things look the same forwards and backwards in time. And it turns out that it's almost an inevitable consequence. A logical consequence of other principles deeper principles about consistency with relativity and quantum mechanics and some wrinkles cajun variants. That tells you that if you try to introduce. Laws that violate. This symmetry between past and future you'll also. Wind up violating other sacred principles say you can't so that gives an understanding of why -- put the thing. Forwards and backwards in time and it works almost perfectly. Two guys named Kobayashi in the scallop. Showed that if you had enough quarks. You could introduce small deviations from this. Symmetry and they just got the most recent Nobel prize for that. That idea enabled them to predict that there are going to be more -- and then soon they were found experimentally with just the right properties. There's a loophole in all of this this another effect. That the -- that allow us time reversal not in variance to sneak in but that nature. Which would still be consistent and everything else but nature doesn't seem to make use of it. So there's the puzzle why not why does this affect not used. And it turns out that by expanding the equation that physics introducing more principles. Of symmetry. That you can. Explain why that. Otherwise possible effect that would spoil. The symmetry between time forwards in time backwards doesn't occur. But this expansion of the equation that physics also predicts that there should be in new kind of particle. And that's what the axiom. And it has very special properties it's. Very roughly speaking like light it's more like light them like solid matter it's very. Well it's very life has almost zero Mahesh."

" It's -- on so lots of plots and actually owns and occupy the same space. Just like the flight you can have laser beams of -- you can have Bose Einstein compensates."

" It interacts it's predicted by the equations -- interact much much much more weekly with ordinary matter. Then flight and photons -- that's why it's been so elusive. But now you can also run the equations through the big -- Through these conditions that should've existed and in the early universe and it was very hot. And particles are moving around fast interactions were different. And it turns out that under those conditions you produce lots of -- And they would survive till today. And if you calculate then the amount it's just about right to produce. The dark matter so and also it's either. A cruel joke on the part of nature or. Or grand synthesis."

" Coming coming to what that's gonna occur and so from these crazy you know while very theoretical considerations about. Why it is time look the same forwards and backwards if you look at small things. To predicting a new kind of particles saying that that America that particle is the dark matter. You know if it'll work that -- pretty cool. But that was the experiment it's still not in the -- yeah. You -- come back. But -- that just seconds."

" I don't see one aspect of that -- encouraged to because around -- science journalist asked the question in my presence last week and I -- companies such -- request a -- But you'll talking quite. Smoothly about problems and fundamental physics would you then relating. To the Big -- this and the question that this journalist -- which I'm just going to us again now because nobody was that bouncer at the time. Is why. It apparently is work on the most fundamental aspects of what we know about not. Seemingly so closely tied today to work on the very earliest yes stages of the Argentina's with cosmology. For you you seem to be illustrating that this say something about well."

" It's because of the nature of the Big Bang cosmology. Which tells us that. Early in the history of the universe. It was very much -- and very much hotter than it is now now we have an expanding universe which is gradually getting less dense and cooler. He goes the other way. It's hotter and denser and in fact. At present we don't know any real limitation that goes -- that's hot and -- as possible we just a singularity presumably. We need new equations but. When when you really get Cingular at the beginning but. But. We assumed."

" That. You know. It's more blessed to ask forgiveness than permission so we use the equations we have and go back as far as that we assume that they're correct and work out their consequences. And go back and forth. Now why."

" Fundamental physics. Is tied up with the cosmology and the -- this is specifically the big bank is because. Fundamental physics is about the most extreme conditions what happens. At very short distances. Which. Turns out to be equivalent to asking about very high energies. The precise connection requires don't ask me about quantum mechanics but roughly speaking you can think -- you know if you want to things to get really really close together. You have to give them a lot of energy's -- didn't get really close together. So if we want to understand the very very very early universe we want to understand what happens that very very high energies. And that's sort of the frontier of our ignorance and particle physics and fundamental physics truth so. So the frontiers -- ignorance that -- that early times in the history of the universe. And what happens at high energies are really the same front here effect in some sense of and that that's that's life. The two subjects and really to a remarkable extent merged thank you that's really helpful please I don't want to. More specifically views I didn't warn you noble prize."

" Yet. So."

" There there was there well there's this phenomena called the strong force. Which is. The force. Between the the force between the objects inside the protons which are there are things called quarks and also who wants. Although it. When we're doing our work it wasn't so clear what was inside those who have something inside. And that whatever what is inside. The seemed to have their remarkable property that. Although the force is very strong. When you try to pull things out. And so these little entity let's pull apart because that's what they are that. It if you try to pull them out. They think they can't you can't pull them out you can and nothing with the properties of these quarks that you see. Sort of with fess up proton microscopes. As ever shown up as an individual -- say they're confined. So the force has to have this strange property that. It confined to quarks and it's very strong if you try to pull it way out. And yet when you look inside the proton it seemed to be that the forces were very small. So you have a strange -- very different from. The -- gravity behaves where we're just walk where electoral magnetism behavior of forces blow -- the pistons. A very strange kind of force but that seems to grow with the distance or. Putting it the other way. At short distances seems to get weaker and and that's really. Paradoxical. I mean. That almost sort of brings back astrology you know we're distant things are having effects caused by the further away it is the stronger the force. So it was very difficult to reconcile that behavior. -- if everything else we understand. As. Indeed -- it's it's almost inconsistent. With. Quantum mechanics and relativity have forces the -- the distance. And people look at us people suspected it was just plain impossible. But. A few of us were persistence of the -- and look this very. Special kinds of theories that we're very poorly understood in the early seventies -- not -- gates theories. And it turned out that. Sort of uniquely among. Consistent implementations. Of relativity and quantum mechanics. So called quantum field theory is this kind of theory had just had that property you. Forces that got. Weaker. As as you've got to shorter distances that's -- lesson -- freedom. And among these theories there was only one that even looked remotely plausible. As a theory of how the actual quarks in our world. Behave so we were able to give a very specific set of equations. To propose a very specific set of equations. For the strong force. And we also work out some consequences of these equations for for a new kinds of experiments. And people did them and we were right. That's the story and so and then and it's been built on and many other direction that we didn't anticipate. It's enabled for instance. It's really enabled this opening into early universe cosmology because. If you didn't understand the strongest force of nature."

" That comes into play at sub nuclear distances. Then you certainly couldn't get past. A nuclear densities. And extrapolating back to the Big Bang because you start to encounter that very Flores coming in and a big way. But. When we found that the fourth kind that turns all kind of turns off and become simpler. And short distances that really enabled the enabled us to get much much closer to the Big Bang. It has been very fruitful. Thank you. That's the question him."

" I thanks -- I'm just wondering if you could comment on a couple of other. Exotic theories that seem closely related to your work but it very far away you know they also happen -- of the inflation and string theory."

" Okay. So inflation and string theory or other important. Advanced theories of physics that I've worked on and have some sympathy for. -- especially inflation. Inflation. Is this the idea that. In the very early universe. There was a period of extremely rapid. Expansion of the universe theorists -- expanding now but. The idea then is that way back then there was a period of much much more rapid. Expansion. That would explain and so. You've produced enormous Leo large universe from a small patch. That would explain a cup several things about our universe that are otherwise puzzling. Why hey. It the laws seem to be the same everywhere. Even though our equations seemed permit. That -- the behavior to very. Over large distances. And also why the university is. Flat. It's patiently flat. General relativity certainly allow us and."

" Would encourage in fact in sort of the generic case. There at the university curved like -- or negatively curved like a saddle on large scale. But as observed it seems to be very accurately flat. And that goes with the idea of inflation because if you start -- any old curvature and blow it up by an enormous scale. It looks flat. Locally just like the surface of the earth looks flat."

" If you don't. Go over great distances and see -- from space. Or C ships going over their life isn't. Most purposes that seems pretty flat. So inflation is really cool and there's a lot of circumstantial evidence for and it's been very fruitful. Goes to get the nights without -- on us. There's a big but. String theory is a very. Ed ambitious attempt. Two. Incorporate. Gravity with quantum mechanics. And it's. Very poorly understood I think it's fair to say. It's not really a theory in the sense of having definite equations with definite predictions it's more. The wish for a theory or program for constructing a theory with with different pieces that haven't been assembled. But it's promising because there aren't we don't know a lot of ways to logically join. The theory of general relativity. With quantum mechanics that don't have obvious. Inconsistencies. Or aren't obviously incomplete. Well. I haven't worked us so much on string theory because I like to work on things that are. What may not sound that it could look at it I like the things I've worked on things that a bit closer. More close to earth. For more down to earth -- And so. In the way string -- is formulated now it's an essentially mathematical theory. With very very little contact with experiments. And you know people who work on -- very grave and if there it is if there's hope thinking that from such heights. You can -- life things about reality so far it's been rather disappointing no way. Meanwhile I think there -- exciting ideas better. Closer to experiment that would would. Be significant. Steps and our understanding of the basic ways that nature works. And I like working on things like that. Yeah. That actually --"

" Is something you referred to when he talked about what you're working on night talked about waiting for the LA -- large central which as you said has taken a long time to come through and is still in the final stages of preparation as I understand. And also I think your -- to kind of looking beyond that what might happen what might. The next and I assumed by that you meant. What might be next experimentally. Yes and what as a non business looking in what one observes is that to do. Meaningful experiments in many of the areas you're talking about. Ironically to probe. Deeper and deeper into smaller schools that you need a larger number larger pieces and rapper writes how can. The point where you want that how far you can go exactly and that's not sustainable so let's could you say more about that because that could yeah. That could be the ultimate frustration for the fundamentals -- yeah because if you go to all kinds of neat so I don't which you can test write another approach."

" Two X exploring very high energies historically and even today. Has been to. Use the gifts of nature. -- either these indirect things from the early universe where you try to reconstruct from. The relics we see today what might have happened under even more extreme conditions than merely -- for. Cosmic rays -- nature. By means that really still aren't understood but somehow produces very very energetic. Particles even more energetic -- gonna happen violates state and they fills space. But. They're not convenient to study because. They collide at high in the atmosphere you only see these showers than the ones that. Would really break new ground as far as energy is concerned that occur about. One per century for football fields so if you wanna study that you have to be very patient and think big half. -- but so what I call open when I've sort of been. Thinking about what it well enough power outage. Changed the strategy so would have something in between. Some kind of machine that could be much much smaller than the LA actually. That would would produce higher energies but but -- were. Particles that those energies you probably have to sacrifice in the quality of the beams some things still but so would be more like cosmic rays. That it would be a lot potentially cheaper. And you could you could have not so thorough examination that you could -- have a a better. And how do you do that have what kind of detectors are appropriate. But what -- the right questions to ask these are the kinds of I think is important for us to be thinking about them because just building. Bigger and bigger. Versions of the same technology I think it's not sustainable in the the galaxy is currently 28 miles around."

" So. I'm sorry. On -- it's 28 -- well only seventy miles. Still but it cannot happen and hopefully get the idea -- made by and ended back in the early days of the Clinton administration that was to be. Right. They get facility in the states which they didn't go ahead -- on grounds of cost that's right. So these things cost tens of billions of dollars and a bigger one presumably would cost. That much more so it's not so what I think it's important to. To think about. Other ways. That please."

" Just had another question go back to a year earlier life he stopped in high school then he said he went to public schools. And I -- the question is not as a second generation immigrant who what do you things. Or what advice would you give schools and school teachers. Today to encourage. Kids from families to don't come from a strong educational background or hurt and then suicide related question is. Did you discover that you just love to think --"

" Well and it. Let me answer the second person in hindsight it's funny it's funny but if I thought my that my earliest memory. Which is pretty verbal. Pixel pictures I remember I and I couldn't talk -- remember this. So I -- I was. You know."

" Somewhere between one and two years old I think maybe."

" The we had a purple later. You know coffee percolating that have had several pieces. And I just remember sitting there in the kitchen floor and taking apart and putting it together and -- you know and you know realizing that there was a way to do that it. You you know and I try to put it together in different orders not. And then. No limit it to shortly after that I was learning about money and how to change money back and forth. And I thought it I've I had a notebook filled with this united change ten quarters and Nichols and Nichols and the pennies and Penney's and at times and times back in the quarters and so with the I did a lot of this is true I was trying to figure out a way to come out ahead. It's. But doing. But. It's not a site could have -- I -- become -- a banker I suppose if they have figured out ways to -- or at least they seem to have until we. And -- that and I mean so I think I was. Going I was wired to do something with mathematics and putting things together in patterns and things like that. But. And there you know there are people like that and they're also a lot of people who are extremely successful scientists are not like that them. And you know many east."

" Not all branches of science are essentially mathematical either become cool for different kinds of skills. How to encourage people."

" You know there's so many resource is out there now. And the Internet. In that don't cost a lot of money if you. So what. I would hope. That."

" Teachers would could could have passed specialists say. Could be sort of brokers between what's out there and the kids who want to know things. That they should -- the burden shouldn't be only on the classroom anymore. And maybe there could also peace I think we should think big. -- and I think. You know investment in education I think it's something that. We know pays off historically. And we needed more than ever right now. That we should think about."

" And and maybe each town should have as well as a library should have. Apply. A hall of science where their hands on experiments where they're innovative -- that were integrated. Resources."

" I don't know I -- night. I think -- I think that. I think I think there's a lot of room for creativity. But it hasn't been my primary focus I just have this intuition -- a lot of room for creativity and I hope people take it up. And I'd be happy to help if someone -- one thing you did mention as well in the course of that sort of little biographical is that you I think grew up during a period when the emphasis on. Science and technology was was very great to have -- very critical aside there is absolutely right and what's quite interesting is that we're living through a period right -- that. Some of the same emphasis seems to happen I think now we might be without might be the time and win. People waking up to the idea that you actually have to make if you use it to. Prosperity actually. Have to understand technology to use it intelligently and so. Let alone to advance I think it's a coincidence that I think President Obama has been giving is giving a speech today the national -- that's right and seeing I -- today. A pre release of what he was saying and it was. Very much along the lines of giving it greater priority again signs and you would prefer buttons facilities of the time when I'm guessing you would have been in. In trying to Bravo. Yeah because I did some sense is maybe quite encouraging quicktime pro to one more question and we've got to stop I think place in the Central Europe."

" just won you won here is lost on the if it -- are you I think it in. You heartless -- who knows when people a sense that science explains something that was kind of concrete and that these models were actually with things are and and I'm in its that's a hobby for me structures but it seems. That now we're into listening where. I since -- at these things are with things really are or whether -- just models all things -- just wondering is if this is where the war. What what -- what your thoughts about what you wonder about. When you're dealing with things as they really are just models and you don't worry about with things what things."

" You all know I I this is that this is reality now the these equations so well. I believe and this you know every reason to believe it could've been different but -- that it appears. From centuries of experience and very delicate experiments and we try very hard to test our equations is. And as many ways as thick as a cat people -- prizes for finding deviations from the from the predictions. That. That there you can construct. Hey. Very detailed precise. And remarkably complete map. From mathematical equations. That. Are very concrete but also require enormous imagination. Because they don't there they describe the world that. At first glance doesn't seem that any resemblance to our. Much more abstract also it uses quantum mechanics Leo virtual particles get very unfamiliar principles. -- confinement of quark is just a minor example. All of these -- properties are supposed to be our world. And it is our world. But. It requires enormous imagination. And to drive to see that and and construction and solving equations and art work."

" To me."

" That's. A very empowering and enriching experience to realize that. Every day life. Is only a very part. Small part of this story a bit of what we sense and every day life what our senses pick up. Is actually only a very very small part of the universe as a whole. If you like God's great design -- any case the universe. That there's much more and and the more I learned about it. The more I love it because this you know it's enriching. But I don't for a moment think that it's. Just a game or just them. That that's it I mean you is the I guess the danger oh well you can get carried away with equations and add things that don't correspond to reality. Then it does become a game but. As long as you confine yourself to the parts that actually participate in this map between the equations. And observable properties of the world. And you don't find discrepancies. That's what we call an ice amorphous and I think -- it's Florida or. I'm back that's so realistic and at least some of the aspects that it's. An adequate substitute. God it. For the real thing there but 121 correspondent. If I'm not take it very seriously I guess this is what you called -- an -- have happened world of ideals. Is the same. As the actual world."

" Yeah. But. Thank you very much but I heading over the long run I'd like to find -- resolution of such an intriguing don't think I hope you'll enjoy it as much like a --"