Title: Here and Now for Monday, August 10, 2009

" Support for this podcast comes from Boston Medical Center providing the advanced cyber -- system to treat hard to reach tumors. More and BMC dot org slash cyber knife. Here now is a production."

" Of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI."

" I'm running young it's here and now Sarah Palin wrote on her blog this past weekend that her parents and her Down's syndrome child. Would face an Obama death panel under proposed health care reform. When asked about her come on any BC TV yesterday former Republican congressman Newt Gingrich said this you're asking us to trust turning power over the government."

" When they're clearly are people in American believing in establishing euthanasia. Including selective standards."

" What it means that euthanasia. Which isn't in any proposal has become the centerpiece of the debate on health care. Also any BC Howard Dean called -- Sarah Palin's thinking delusional. But didn't say what the house bill does include which is a voluntary program for patients to ask doctors about the end of -- services. Democratic congressman Brad Miller North Carolina joins us first congressman as you know. This idea of euthanasia has been pushed by political groups and talk show hosts extorting people to disrupt town hall meetings. You to -- you like to talk to constituents in your office rather than hold town hall meetings that we understand. Your office received a call from someone demanding a town hall meeting. And many threaten your life."

" A course that a week ago if not supported the bill. He could call in my life and had not happened since it was that a threat in the -- said. There -- a lot of angry people so it was obviously Zogby -- saying in creepy. I'm not sure it was to specific enough to be. Something that's part of the criminal prosecution my impression is a lot of members have gotten some kind of ministry called longworth house office building was closed for several hours. Two weeks ago because of couple bomb threats so there yes -- there are a lot of threats like that going home."

" Is there anything in any of the bills that are proposed. That says that a doctor a government official make a decision about whether an elderly person gets health care is the word -- and I used ever used."

" Of course not. And even -- Gingrich you know I don't know about Serb -- she may really believe what she says Newt Gingrich I think it's all political calculation all the time. And what he said laws. It doesn't say that wide but it they're if there's a secret plan to do it this might for the vast secret plans if there are people out there who believe there's a secret plan. Does not the bill but the secret plan there's no way to dissuade look at."

" So there's nothing in the Billiton is that -- should talk an elderly person out of living honor."

" What the bill provides for is what most Americans have been through with a loved one in the last elements. Knowing what's involved know what decisions that need to be made and getting some -- from soaring through their fair in making those decisions."

" We understand there are ready our federal laws that require hospital and nursing homes to advise patients on how to write a living will what the state laws are this is the kind of information. That now the house bill would reimburse. Medicare doctors for."

" And I think most doctors are doing -- many doctors at least are doing it even -- don't get paid will be called think they understand how important. And helpful it is to their patience and -- gives -- some payments on compensation for doing that. And that's all the build it's voluntary. It's -- doctor I am not picking up that. Many Americans really -- that these charges very credible. It just doesn't make any sense to them but what it does do not think this is quite intentionally so Newt Gingrich is part. Is it is our operating gauges and a portion of the white wing bags to people whose fault. That congress should intervene and -- case what most Americans -- was -- a painful private. -- should be decided out of family in the courts and not. Political the crowd that really was for that intervention. When they hear euthanasia when they -- you're abortion they don't have to hear anything else there's no --"

" Well represented in Virginia Foxx. Republican of North Carolina you're state recently suggested that the democratic health care bill. Wouldn't this is a quote put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government. Your statements like that representative Tom -- of Virginia. Says he had to senior citizens approach him trembling with fear they were. Holding a pamphlet from a religious group that's Obama's health care plan would pull the plug and decide a 24 year old life was important. And an 85 year old wasn't."

" There are obviously some people more worried. But I think most Americans don't -- credible. A little will really is a despicable political tactic to try to scare people that much to gin up opposition to. To a bill that really should improve the quality care for most Americans."

" Well and your thoughts on whether or not the Obama administration. Was late in responding. To this it's been percolating for four weeks now."

" They probably realize that they should have gotten about it more quickly and they do understand now that this is -- back in the campaign there were all kinds of rumor spread in the same way. Over the Internet over through emails. Through talk radio and they have a response. It's just been placed that's what the whole you know born Indian small box or whatever for. That's when apple rumors started and would spread through email."

" you distracted -- that. I think they were surprised by act I don't think they were they realize that they were now up against the same kind of tactics that they face for the campaign last year."

" And now how do you as a lawmaker and a politician. Walk the line of allowing your constituents their free speech and stand 600 people picketed your office well when you held that health care meeting with ninety constituents. How do you allow them that free speech well. Somehow. Trying to stop them from you know yelling fire in a crowded health care debate Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer right in not that in today's USA today. Saying that the orchestrated attempts to disrupt town hall meetings are on American."

" It isn't designed to have their point of view -- is designed to drown out the other point of view and Americans are concerned about health care. They really won't take careful fault for the state."

" Congressman Brad Miller of North Carolina thank you so much thank you. Well how are these rumors of euthanasia spread here's a speaker in Pueblo Colorado part of a bus to -- held by patients first. That's a group supported in part by the Washington conservative advocacy group Americans for prosperity. The speaker is describing the aspect of the house bill which again is he says the proposal. That would allow patients to voluntarily ask doctors about issues like writing living --"

" It's six million. I reporters."

" to sit there is no proposal for and of flight orders anywhere in any legislation -- lost in national political writer for the Los Angeles Times. Peter did the Obama administration let this go too long."

" Well I think they were caught off guard by what you're Padilla -- or organization on the opposition side to the bill and they have some fundamental problems which is. First and foremost I think the president and asking. For people to rally around a policy that actually it's still on the make it he is now like to read general principles that are pretty -- And he's asking his supporters -- How to act should be a Republican opposition by calling about urged congress but people are being asked to get enthusiastic about something that opened yet. Fully."

" Well in the meantime the -- been able to focus on just one small aspect. And misrepresented."

" Yes when you're talking about complicated -- would be easier to attack at the entry port that he didn't sound -- or. And that's what happened here and I talked to a number of the member of Obama's big grassroots network that talked quite a few of them in the last week actually. And some of them are very frustrated they feel like I've been doing phone banking and canvassing and they're trying to talk up that bill but the -- not finished the White House wants them to talk about President Obama to -- and both. But keeping costs low and make sure there are choices and and it support and that's being interpreted as very big and they're having a hard time convincing people."

" We read another problem that Obama has on the grassroots level is. That a lot of the people Internet movement aren't happy with the compromises that are being made in the bill."

" But wait a minute -- single look at the web site my Barack Obama dot com which -- kind of an accent -- that movement. You can find a lot of people -- that they're frustrated that they don't think the build up are not they were frustrated that. Single Payer option what and included at least even considered they're unhappy about the current deal the White -- struck with the pharmaceutical industry. You know that these are people who are I think tend to be ideologically pure and ideologically on the left and the White House and the Democratic National Committee -- to give up weekends and evenings to campaign. For a health care bill that maybe they're not expect."

" Well but getting back to this false issue of euthanasia. You have Betsy McConaughey. Former lieutenant governor of New York health expert. Since the Clinton administration. And as the Boston Globe writes in an editorial. She's been making the claim that. The provision. About end of life services mandates that elders have conversations with their doctors that's clearly not true. It's a voluntary. Program you have house Republican leader John Boehner. Saying that this idea of Medicare reimbursing doctors to sit down with elderly patients to talk about services. Quote may start is down a treacherous path toward government euthanasia. And yet I listened to almost all the talk shows yesterday. We aren't hearing anyone from the Obama administration explain what the bill really does. Do you think they're missing out on an opportunity to point out what it does do which as we were just hearing. Most elderly advocates. Say has been long over did somebody just answer your questions."

" Well the White House did begin a web site today all on like a -- out that their colleague reality check well they do it directly addressed the euthanasia claim with the head of their domestic policy. The visibility aren't speaking to the camera and a video sitting at her office trying to describe the bill. And how this is actually call for permission but. Again the problem is that the president they made a strategic vision early on that they did not want president to appear to be renting out the don't ever -- growth and that he wanted to make sure congress was leading the way. Because that was viewed as a big error and Clinton's health care overhaul that they did try to to dictate. The provision of health care bill through congress -- wanted to come up from congress. They're strategically the president has not won a step in and specify what policy car that's why he's sticking by his general principle. That now makes it difficult for him to say what is in the bill and whatnot and the bill because the Billick still information that still being debated in congress people a lot of appear to be dictating what and -- what but it now of course. The euthanasia provision that not and it that's being blocked but for a general strategic standpoint it has been difficult for the White House to be explaining the bill because there are several well."

" And what has happened we've seen people like Howard Dean just pooh -- the thinking that euthanasia is in the -- college delusional which was his remark about Sarah Palin's -- But don't you run the risk then of calling delusional people who are very frightened who have been frightened and believe this."

" Yet they're gonna tendency in the pushed back by the democratic side tried to describe the opposition. You know we not and not jobs and -- You know I think that they risk alienating people do have legitimate fear and criticisms. And again because that the big huge complicated change there are several built in player still being debated. There's abuse on both on the left and the right that the deliberation congress have not been fully transparent. That happened deal struck a certain industry player and not others you know at the very confusing topic and when you start attacking her critics as people on the fringe and that. Fumble simply raise skepticism even more and and that's been. Again that immediate strategic problem on the -- out the side that they haven't yet figured out how to hit back. At this I think they were caught off guard by the level of organization and the ability of inside to rally support."

" Do you think Obama -- and his idea of health care reform. Survive this. Reaction to something that isn't even in the proposal."

" I hate to predict I don't know it feels like he has big majorities in congress -- Can at least get some sort of compromise bill asked the question is. How hard is that bill wind up going and we'll let you make a change is that people want will there be a public option in the end. Will it actually addressed the issue of drug costs. Will they get something done and just declare victory or whatever it is and it if you get it done and actually."

" Peter -- national political writer for the Los Angeles Times thank you Peter. And looking ahead this week Brian Baird a congressman from Washington State has canceled his town meetings he says they're getting too dangerous. Some lawmakers are scheduling talent town hall who by phone. Representative Lloyd Doggett of Texas says he will attend scheduled talks he says. The point mr. -- Dunst that's not gonna happen back after breaking."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide on the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to check in on the story of the Somali pirates the International Maritime Bureau reports that pirate attacks worldwide. More than doubled in the first six months of this year and it's mainly due to Somali piracy in the Gulf of Aden. Usually it's hijacked oil tankers -- cargo ships that make the headlines. What's less well known is that pirates also target the smaller boats going between India and Somalia. It's no monsoon season and the sailors who crew these boats have returned home to the village of Salina on India's -- Iraqi coast. As the BBC and a Cunningham found out when she visited some -- Piracy is having a very real impact on the lives of this traditional sailing port. Does that thing."

" Do it or. When -- ships sail back this alliance guys -- happy to hunt position and time voices here. -- happiness in the streets and homes amendment that money peace. So this shopping streets come on line."

" The medical clinics in -- he's happy. You don't think any easy. It's a constant soundtrack to this small pieces of minutes this time that he and it's wedding season but the amounts conducted pension fifty -- mini since -- And many of its -- time to celebrate placing an infinite series."

" Yeah I -- yeah. -- thank our -- my name is -- and month. I'm twenty is those. My husband is to say -- when we got married them happy and sad thing. I need that he was getting to see it would -- me for ten month. Ten months isn't the only long TV to me. It's very difficult to pass the time especially when there -- duct taped by the commodities. I was really fine -- and wasn't able to sleep. Prestigious turing has become a familiar tale for many young winds in the visit to cyan. She's been married in any -- and -- this mining and teaching adults with -- assistant -- confirming meal. She's happy to have her husband's name. Yeah -- game. It feels good it is really very -- we only have two months to be together for the whole year so I am really happy that -- he would. Events like many young clients in this village on India's Winston -- antique taste. Fresh sheet and it's nice to the game in fear and ninety McCain change in April. When her husband -- carrying committed to and from some money and do dying and India. Miss her intent for a week I clearance. And I thank you know they SN currently at us we didn't I think being abducted last month and we any companies that that there it was last. I was being frightened. I went with my family to meet religiously is we kept on praying to the only T goat when he was coach I was frightened about when he might -- How he was advising him what trouble he was going through -- she didn't feel lucky. Off to warm week the Somali pirates abandoned the wooden -- her husband was song consent of the because -- Well it kids that when the news reached its that he be free to must attend. I was so happy I went to my neighbors and everyone I -- shouting that my husband is coming back rusty coming back. Generations and means they have been things wouldn't say it's name -- but currently seeing it's changed the way many feel that that's the tradition."

" Ethan and I leaned back at me and again. Earning it collecting data on me."

" I wish you Connecticut -- the Sunday this is the only soliciting confluence. Well my husband was on the shape my elder brother Manuel felt sick. We spent enough -- money for his hospital treatment civilian now facing financial crisis. So he has taken back to see. I have to be very practical about things. I'm afraid. But I have to let -- and and it's not tending my constant but my father been known -- to see. I have to be strong. But I have to send him."

" Easily the villages teaming with women when the men around to see. But now it's the men lining the streets thinking -- from getting ready to repent that -- received a constant confessed she states that time. He doesn't want her to sign."

" nine and on and on us when Monday fillies and lining alliance and some of these."

" My name is Imran Anwar and I'm 24 years old. -- only shown and shown a keen about it's very difficult to see an OpenId when the store will come along rule when the seat might be rough. Normally we take fifteen to twenty days to get from your phone to Somalia thoughts that the weather is rough. It takes a month to month and that we don't have enough rations it can be really tough safari. It's been very difficult to leave -- you want to Holland. When we took the call go to Somalia the trip was fairly fairly -- the weather conditions would not good. And that's not totally honest have very much."

" Inland and time repairing his town. Crackle boot he recoup some maintenance -- hijacked a home. The nickname on these video. Hot and we have left Chicago in Mogadishu and -- overweight. After two days -- three speedboats with some volleys in the -- and all the dust is still. They had rocket launchers hand grenades and firearms. We still the engine and they came on people they took control and told us they wanted to find the oil tank or container ship and they forced us to -- threatening us. After traveling 600 nautical miles we reached a big container ship found they weren't able to capture it. So we traveled another 24 hours and then they abandoned us. It was really tough and frightening of course for all of us we were thinking about home. We weren't able to send any messages that to come XSB radio there was no way of communicating its cool. When they finally left us there was joy on board the ship all of us were reading happy and was celebrating."

" In an unnamed thinner and EC -- get that some money pirates he can he's sentenced to target because lessons. Like many of the same instance -- lion he fitted scanning Karen."

" To see pop every set I relaxed and handle. And then they'll have."

" When we were captured on testimonies the first thing came to my mind was not and I'm not gonna go to C again this is my loss trip. It's -- dangerous -- the ships that sailed through the area so the risk is always looming over. I don't want Skype backed bonds has no option because that's where the businesses. It's not any -- and my (%expletive) but all the ships sail in that area because affected business to -- had that. -- report."

" From the BBC's and a Cunningham in India will be back after the very latest news and the next hearing now."

" What does the statistical possibility that some will be able to establish this country's only museum of mathematics sometime soon. Will -- Whitney must have calculated that it's doable because. Last year he tossed aside his well paying job as an algorithm manager at the giant hedge fund Renaissance technologies. He's now dedicating himself full time to promoting the idea of -- museum dedicated to math. Glenn joins us and then why -- museum."

" we wanna give people a place to get excited about math -- then. We think right now this up with the can turn -- for that and what -- is the heart of it. It is certain moments of mathematical discovery when things that together and anyway and then he sort of see the world and away and we wanna give people -- that."

" Although I understand that I read that they used to be a museum on Long Island where -- from the -- drone museum."

" Correct there was very small museum that ran in the community center in couple of class -- it was always just on the Barrett and exit them. And I think that by updating the items that were there and I'm making them more attractive. We can predict it'll be long lasting -- be very --"

" So that resuming uses disagree country or what he can -- that. Winning what do you envisioning."

" And visiting a place to people can go where they're I think the production Ian do so let me give -- an example. One click command not come up in everyday life is filling -- the pack your truck. You know what it really tight that may be only a few certainly that things can get together. And it's sort of the geometric problem. What's the right arrangement that'll that'll at all that it but look better at than it would not a -- and you can get a practical in that last piece -- and all that together and that's. One example that I hot moment now and --"

" Well and many of us saying we think can be a plan I think. These would you say you can mathematically approach packing your car you could mathematically approach walk into your city you do that in promoting this idea. You're giving math tumors of New York City what are some of the things you point out."

" We'd look at places where mathematical forms are used for example in architecture around for example the that particular charges that are prominent. Not Lincoln Center and those can be used both pragmatic reasons and for structural reasons that the mathematics but. -- shape incidents certain architectural -- utility that mimic that that are building."

" And -- in New Yorker article that some of the other things you point out if you look ahead -- news. Well walking blocks down Broadway for instance you gained two blocks every not mine."

" That's because the particular plant that that Broadway that cuts through the grid of New York City. And that during the tour you know we use that the figuring they're on panel map in New York to epic epic that people at a black."

" math and everything."

" When I look around did for example yesterday flying on the plane. Is had a hundred my head over on one but the plane but didn't have the Huntsman had run into Batman and think now why is that. All of airplane and immediate circle. The circle. The good allow them and close a certain volume with the least amount of material possible that's going to be top suspect that the bullet that -- at all but because it's gonna bounce up -- forces on the the plane. And it's a small plane -- packing problem with geometry that left no place that they some luggage compartment above one that the plane. Leading to that surprising entry."

" How nice for you that you can be seeking those things instead of you know the rest of us in my head hurts. On the inside of a plane. Think about -- happening huge traveling exhibit for instance math midway features tricycle with square wheels that sort of run on different kind of grounds that they weren't smoothie with the -- there."

" There's a mathematical principle which can be done right this thing has so wrote for every we will. You can -- squiggly shape and I tip you want and they give -- away of that designing -- much it would roll smoothly just like a regular around -- does not -- on a flat -- We tell the square because that's obvious that the quintessential. Example what do you do that you built that would have where we hope that crazy."

" We think here it feels as if we've been hearing for decades it justice. Our problem with math that we don't make it more creative did you think that is the problem."

" I think that most people the mathematics the latter wrong. All of it he went to climb up from one run to the Mac and that leaves it's sort of feeling. Least of its creativity don't wanna do is show how much like branches out -- every direction. Can think out and that there's always new new partner -- being discovered."

" How much money -- when do you think's gonna be able to. Have a museum."

" So Phnom moderate side impact their feet outside of the city -- would probably. But looking at five million dollars -- kind of entry level."

" That's fun Whitney former hedge fund Al Gore the manager now organizing -- would become the country's only museum of mathematics. -- good luck and thank you. OK still ahead can modern dance company survive its founder's death. Thirty seconds here."

" Okay everybody. Position. Ready. And."

" That's the American modern dancer and choreographer -- Cunningham directing his company in daily class citizen you're TV studio earlier this year. He died on July 26 at the age of ninety. Well our next guest rights that -- Cunningham and death one clock has stopped and another started taking. Cunningham did often use a stopwatch in his choreography and his choreography. Broke dance tradition because his movements dingle the music. And while that creative clock has stopped the -- Cunningham dance company has started another one they gonna farewell worlds tour. Before shutting down in two years. That time a trusting guided by some of Cunningham is closest collaborators. We'll begin the work of helping other companies stage the 150 or so dances that Cunningham created in his lifetime. It's an unprecedented arrangement in modern dance. Wall Street Journal dance critic Robert Crist -- joins us from the journal studios in New York with more Robert welcome nice to do you think you Grammy. Your thoughts on hearing that Cunningham had died he was in mind he can't be too much of a surprise but still."

" Well in one party was still live forever that we knew he was failing and then when this. Planned you've already mentioned was announced he was still alive it was at a press conference that he was due to attend but didn't. Don't think because of ill -- I think he just didn't Indian wanna be there. Is. An unusual plan."

" You will we wanna talk more about how dance. Legacies are preserved in his into taking the first more about why we even care you know who was he. We wanna listen to move from the sounds. Of -- dance he created this company sixteenth street. Split sides and music from medium. Single runs in included music made by it and xylophone made of Melamine -- you sir."

" Okay."

" Earlier you mentioned that his Dan -- always go to the music Blum that since the fifties it was intended never to go with the music. If there was a deft handling it was sheer lead by chance to work rumors Cunningham like. Because it was a process his chance procedures that he used since the early fifties. To determine. Directions it choices in his dense making that word be on his own. Imagination and if -- bigger than him. And that is -- away his big contribution."

" Well and Morgan we're listening to the music firm split sides that this is radio scene."

" Are spinning in the onstage to throw the dice. Because they were alternate sets they were alternate costumes. And there are other alternate options in the -- itself prices CC he would he would roll the -- her or talk nannies."

" And use these chance procedures to launch a dance."

" Who actually to -- into DC I will we be shown what would be presented who might be presented. It's important to remember too that once -- named to dance and put -- out -- it was an important is that didn't happen in the process of dancing. This section the sex but should we do it to you right -- should that should this mailed -- to do this female and he wouldn't choose chance would choose."

" Police say that the music and the dance. Were created separately even the music of his longtime partner composer John Cage. You say that went even when there was sound. Cage's. Music and Cunningham dance. Did not meet."

" Until the -- Or may be a dress rehearsal but that's absolutely true commerce Cunningham had that clock in him or in his hand. But the music's counts if there were any regular regular. We're not known until the two came together -- this is independent. Individual elements a deck core wasn't seen until that dress rehearsal or in the premier. Pat -- on the costumes and data to score."

" Will Joan Alcatel aren't -- cadet Bruce Cunningham signal achievement is that he established modernism abstraction. Decentralization. In dance. But you know the consequences is that some people didn't like it it was too abstract. She writes that I was at a prank or jokes some walked out some just plain bewildered. Think about people who couldn't grasp it."

" Well as I -- recently was able to recycle from an integrated with him in 1985. And I asked him because I've certainly seen a number of people walk out if he shows. I said Tim do you plan you set out to shock is that your -- And he -- known only in the most gentle voice gentlemen -- gentle delivery in the matter of factly speaking to a known don't know. I like the answer John Cage gave many years ago which is that I'm trying to bring a little poetry into their lives now."

" So the question is how do you preserve dances that and heart we're determined by chance reminded that it took years for the Martha Graham dance company. To recover from a lawsuit over who owns the rights to her works a judge. Ruled that her work -- not owned by herb but by her dance center and the -- company to get back on its feet eventually it did it is on its feet and -- now. Other companies. I'm sure scanning the horizon the Paul Taylor dance company he's. Almost eighty do you know for instance affect companies decided its legacy client."

" He hasn't announced and if it happens. I think most companies are little spooked about talking about what's going to happen in public. When there mentor. Is no longer around and here she dies when their incapacitated. And Cunningham idea is still -- usual for what we often call a single choreographer company. That's category that's for most modern dance companies rewarding thoughts on the Cunningham dance company planned."

" To disband. And concentrate on teaching other companies have to perform in the works."

" I I was quite struck by the imagination to it seems like it's going forward with. Fund raising to help they get these legacy. Kits almost ready so that once the company ceases performing the works which they had in their bodies right now. There will be a staff of dancers and former dancers."

" Who will go to any company that asks. For it and that is approved for it."

" To stage -- work on those dancers beat de ballet dancers or be -- other modern dancers I suppose. It seems sounds to me and I think it's worth trying."

" Why not though keep it within them that they existing company within these dancers has been so trained."

" Well practically. Will a public. Wants to see. Accompanying when they know the wizard has gone."

" We figured. What did you like about Cunningham stance is and what you wanna make sure is preserved."

" Well there was a great purity are great innocence and often said to people who were having problems -- watching it just think of watching a nature show are watching nature. I don't know I'm just I just the first time I saw them in 1970 and was sent by a friend who was afraid I might not like it at first Chris she said she didn't didn't she grew to like it. And I instantly said what's not to like they just at. The lack of this sense of one way to look at something that it it's it's almost like it's all done in glass and you can see through vacancy would every want to and it."

" That's her -- that again of the world's -- Robert thanks so much for speaking with us. Thank you. If you're still looking for a vacation read you might try commencement the near times Janet maslin calls it one of this year's most inviting summer novels. Though she also points out it might ruffle some feathers at Smith College the all girls school where the book is sat. And that may be because of the candor with which author -- Courtney Sullivan's. Describes the experimental lesbian sex the enduring lesbian relationships the drama queens who arrived with what we Jane -- do T shirts. The radicals whose teachers say -- don't diet feminists like April."

" I'm just not really quiet material April said I'm not into all the sorority bull bull indicate parties with white hats that's not why I came here. I could've gone to any state school in Illinois if I'd want and that. -- or not it so why did you come here anyway she asked. I came here because it was the on the mater of Gloria Steinem and Molly Ivins. I thought it was the most effective place to fight the patriarchy in the Scott forsaken country April sent. Then she took a bite of her -- in bacon and said also I like the dining hall fit. -- you wondered for a moment whether she was the only normal person at Smith College. At home she had always been thought of a slightly odd because unlike her girlfriends she preferred Victorian novels and Dorothy Parker comes to women's magazines. And technicolor musicals -- modern movie. But now she felt like Joan normal note teenage wedding no rage at establishment. Which its -- apparently meant she was freak."

" As seen from commencement -- their first years Celia April -- and Sally first meet the former deep friendship. Then meet up for years after graduation for a winning. Juventus in the NPR CU's in New York or new welcome thank you for having me so what is the Smith alumni associations he can -- his. I was little nervous going into it it's it has actually an incredibly supportive at all levels -- one reason I ask is that Smith of them is of course. The pinnacle of women's school in. And you tell of young girls find their way to life. Dealing with eating disorders and break ups with high school guys. Things that have nothing do with academics -- you know at this group of girls in the book and certainly that when I went -- witness well. They are constantly talking. As much as they're talking about boys they're talking about. Politics they're talking about literature. And that's happening you know when they are taking showers in the doctor hammer when they're sitting in the dining hall eating their banana cream pies in fact when they talk about literature. They talk a lot about women's literature that's another line it's been pulled -- quite a bit. One of your characters says when a woman writes a book that is anything to do with feelings relationship it's either called chick lit or women's fiction right. But look at Updike urging imagine if they'd been women just imagine some would have slapped a pink cover on a rabbit at rest and poof there goes the Pulitzer. There's something troubling to me ninety at that any but the sort of bio one especially young -- into kind of fall into the category of chicklet. Yeah and on the one hand. A lot of people of Reading -- so maybe it's not that -- on the other hand you know just seems like there's this need to sort of classify. So I think commencement described as. Feminist chick lit bar in smart women's -- it and I'm not really quite sure what it means that immediately because it's it is definitely not conditioned to take seriously. The 2 in the morning over snacks conversations. Between Smith girls leave their younger at that point when in fact your book. And who can ruin the ending but your book and that delving into. Sex sling. In it that I said these -- women -- while there in school. Are very passionate about their politics while some of them especially the character of April and after college she goes and works for the sorted. Renowned but also sort of controversial. It slide at buried deeply flawed element. -- ever talk a little bit about people's -- because she is there. The -- radical. And she does join up with this older. Well known feminist. It turns very abusive relationship. What are you saying there it was funny one of my friends who is very active feminist in New York said to me. This is -- this is the first feminist villain I've ever seen it. I think it's wonderful that made me happy because you know it's really not -- deeper meaning I think in a Ronnie is certainly someone to. It's so caught up in the ideas -- that what she's fighting force sort of surpasses the actual people in her life especially. Well it's sort of a post feminist idea that. Even feminists can be bad into the night and the right to be bad people may ultimately although she's a good cons in fighting in Paris sex trafficking. She's not a good person. And it just reflects that there's more of -- spectrum to choose from. Didn't in my has been thirty years ago ray. And into surmise as to that Gloria Steinem who is held up by April in the book. And was -- real granite announcement college yet she comments on your book on the -- flat compared to Mary McCarthy's the group. A lot of people have compared the puck to the green and he I can see why of course it's about a group of women's college grads. And are moving through life I think that. Commencement is is not really sort of removed or satirical on the way to the group says that Leavitt group on my very favorite -- that. In answer to smaller. Kind of a warm French novel and it kind of distanced look at that life. Well and Gloria Steinem also notes that the girls talk about everything. From themselves. To their mothers. It's interesting that mothers player rule in their conversations he's too much Sex and the City and think don't need these young women have mothers. He went through that it. And these girls talked so much about him -- kinds. In sort of the first generation to offend that's and the mothers of all -- women."

" In different ways really loom large so. On the part of Celia you know she has had a pretty functional probably the healthiest relationship with her mom and April's mother. Is a lot like Ronny actually in some ways that she's very devoted to causes that not so interested in raising April. Sally has just lost her mother to cancer when she starts -- in this becomes. Sort of the defining. Being in her life. And three you know comes to school engaged to be married to her high school boyfriend and her mother is a -- as is her grandmother so they're thrilled. And of course that many years she has taken up with a woman and another -- all and this really puts a strain on her relationship with her mother and I think. Part of -- journey is kind of you know your mother's opinion contentious chart the course of your whole life so. These are girls were coming of age at a time land the doors have been opened and they've been opened by a their mother's generation and so these choices they have laid out before them which seemed. Extremely overwhelming. You know this is really the first time in the history of the country that that's been possible."

" goes to the title and -- instances in your book jacket commencement makes clear that the feminist revolution is to speaking. Read your generation is that from sonic com. Fluently at an add on that it's it's just beginning because certainly it's -- along time in the works and it's still going strong I think that. A lot of young women today -- hold separate conversation posed -- knots. Attaching that label to themselves which I think is unfortunate. Think -- sort of shortsighted sometimes when it comes to realizing just how -- so much of the sexism in this country and around the world. Who was and how much left to be done. Take Courtney Solomon her new novel about enforcement to graduates and the lines after college is called commencement. Courtney thanks so much for Tomlinson. Thank you."