Title: Here and Now for Friday, August 28, 2009

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" UB UR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI I'm running young it's here and now President Obama take a break from his vacation today. To say he thought Ben Bernanke should keep his job praising the Republican fed chairs bold and out of the box thinking. Economists agree that the special lending programs that Bernanke created to pour money into the financial system. Are radical departure for the federal bank but critics say he gave too much to banks. And in the woods yet to reports today from the White House and the Congressional Budget Office pretty much say the federal deficit will explode in years to come. Bernanke is gonna face a senate hearing before being confirms meanwhile let's get a view of where we are in the economy. It's a decidedly liberal view from Paul Krugman the Nobel prize winning economist and columnist for New York Times. He was a thorn in the side of the Bush Administration is proving to be quite a splinter firm Obama as well Newsweek magazine calls that Krugman. Obama's Nobel headaches of Paul welcome back here now. -- there -- now you've criticized Ben Bernanke for missing affected there was a housing credit bubble and for being slow to respond at the beginning. The financial crisis but you've also written that he's her do the right to this -- equipment why. Because once."

" It became clear that we had a really really big crisis. Ben Bernanke responded. Aggressively -- to -- he he understood the stakes he may have been a little off on his for mortal law funds forecast before it happened but when it happened. He was as good firefighters -- really could have hoped for and so you know who would you have preferred to have in that seat this past year."

" will tell us why he you know low cuts the prime lending rate pours money into the Wall Street is is that's right yeah that's we I mean it's it's it's cutting interest rates."

" Asked. Realizing that we re really worth risking the -- Great Depression. Unconventional policies having the Federal Reserve after buying commercial paper. Which is a private debt. Having him by long term government debt all of this is stuff that. Someone else might have hesitated said well that's little unusual that he wait until. It's clear that we really are headed for not -- depression and Bernanke didn't do that that -- yet be thankful for that."

" What do you think we are Bernanke -- spoke last week with central bankers from around the world and said the prospects. For return to growth in the near term appeared -- he also warned that unemployment would remain high different of the year but was he right could be optimistic."

" Well enough to call it optimistic where we're having a problem with language right now that. We we basically have a binary language BC of the economy's recession which is everything is going down. Or the -- where everything's going up where either Hillary in heaven. Where we are right now looks like we're in purgatory. That is the economy is probably growing if you measured by GDP does not generating jobs. -- unemployment is probably going to be heading higher for quite awhile. It's not that some awful fears. Five months ago six months ago it was actually reasonable to worry that we might be headed -- 1930s. Conditions. That doesn't look like it's gonna happen now but it's a long long way from what we really --"

" Well it we save purgatory you've also said that the stimulus package wasn't bold enough. Good what isn't like the Bernanke do es cut as he said the prime lending rate almost to zero nordic of their poured money into the financial markets. And in his criticism that there's too much money floating out there and that he -- Navigate away from the shoals of inflation so what what -- that's."

" Kind of why I I I want someone like Bernanke and and that currently burning in their and he understands I think. -- these pressures are always there and that the great risk now is that he will or that the Fed and and and the Obama administration will. Start to pull back too soon that's what happened to the US economy in 1937 -- Franklin -- start listening to the voices of orthodoxy. It's what happened to the Japanese and in 1997. And their government service with the force of orthodoxy. And he starts in -- wells noted we start worrying about inflation went actually deflation is still the pressures on the economy. It starts and well you know we're growing even though we're very very far below full employment. And to back slide so -- know what what he really needs to do its. Basically we need to keep all of these support for the economy in place until we have a real recovery which is not yet happened and will."

" This brings us says some of the stats are having with people who are on the other side of the fence -- in and -- too much spending. I'm thinking of Harvard historian Neil Ferguson. You both we both -- a panel discussion. At the metropolitan museum of modern -- you arguing for more spending he saying that spending is gonna lead to inflation and lead other countries to question whether the US. Continues to be good bet with such debt now I wanna put aside. How heated the that debate gut on drugs and everything in the new fox series you know when scholars the path. At the met."

" I I have had to blog posts on this and over the course of four months and this is not a token made -- in my life."

" Isn't big and that that seems to be the crux of the matter spend or keep an eye on there on the debt and what not that question because a headline in the times this week reads. America on May need to find another financier Floyd Norris writing that. In 2006 China and Hong Kong but half the public US treasury so far in 2009 if and only 9% this idea. That the more the US goes into debt of less like a good deal we look to other countries that are supporting haven't."

" There are several things you need to bear in mind here first the reason. That. China -- by some useless -- is that we are no longer running the big trade deficits we are running in the past we actually don't need foreign financing to anything like the same extent. And who is buying -- this is Americans because. People are looking for safe place to put their money and the there's actually a useful role actually critical role played by deficits right now. Because everybody's looking for safe please put their money don't wanna spend it that are piling it US government debt. If the US doesn't supply that -- The result is that you're just isn't enough demand for real stuff in the economy and the economy plunges. The reason we haven't had another Great Depression is in large part because in fact federal spending has continued hasn't been maintained. At the expense of large deficits which is not a good thing but but those deficits -- in a way the flip side of a supporting the economy to a very very difficult time so I don't worry at all about. Result of the creditors I do worry that if it if you look at ten years we will have a level of debt that is probably not crisis level but it's certainly not a good thing."

" Well and so what about that I mean taken off. The table at the met with economists and historians arguing and you debated others including Harvard economist Greg Manning Q. What about -- and all the people that we're seeing parading through town hall meetings what about average Americans who are feeling. Frightened about just all the spending in and then not in favor of the stimulus."

" Well. This is a problem because that this little heart to. Explain what's going on your I think the president hasn't on the greatest job of the stimulus it is. Crucial and just putting a floor under the economy are important because it was ever big enough to to work. Create a full recovery but it has put a floor if we had not. Had the stimulus. We would now be -- the economy still falling as -- that was in the first. First quarter of this year we'd still be seen the economy shrinking 5% annual rate cuts were pretty much. All reasonable calculations suggest and that would be sleeping in the total panic right now. Now the death. We can run. Large deficits for several years US as they. As a wealthy country with a giant economy he's tax base. Well we can't do is we can't beat the country that looks like it is incapable. Of ever taking the hard decisions needed to balance the budget once the economy has recovered. So it's really it's not a question about one of numbers look like this year the question is. Are we in fact are responsible nation able to pull ourselves together in the long run."

" How well an entirely you know him when he recent column is that when you press the people who are complaining. About the stimulus. And saying that there angry about it what they're really angry about are the bail outs which is stiff that's right stimulus."

" That's right you say will -- so against this and they sailed all this money going to -- to bank executives and that's that was a different programs such a program that began under bush. And it was almost certainly necessary to bail out. -- major financial institutions again -- don't. You know 111 financial system collapse can ruin your whole day but the way it's been done has been extremely friendly. To the bankers it has been basically the rescue packages with no strings attached. It's bad economically you can probably say okay now we're. Where a big country can afford to waste a hundred billion or two but it's terrible politically and I think that it about really took a wrong turn he. He's markets and very badly needed populist credibility analyst."

" What you are hugely disappointed it would seem from your columns with Barack Obama you say the astonishing thing about the current political scene is that nothing has changed. And you gonna come by saying how's it gonna work out well a crucial aborigines being missed where at a turning point and we're not making it turned."

" Yeah now look that good things to say about Barack Obama as he's very smart he's very he. Com. Those are things that served him very well and in the final. Two months of the of the election campaign when he was at least responding rationally for the financial crisis and McCain was not. But he has not been. Using his position to say to Americans and we really neat. To change from the course we've been on these past thirty years has his anti Washington rhetoric tends to be a pox on both houses. Where is it really -- beneath the turn us away from that's. Right wing the market is always right government is always that ideology and he has not done that because I think that's not what he believes switches. Is that from our point of -- unfortunate."

" Well for instance you say nationalize the banks and regulate them and your writing it as others are. It was securitization that got us in the current -- know this idea of buying and selling mortgages and and banks are back in the same thing."

" Well yet another hit the bank regulation white papers came out of the Obama administration. Was not that. But it doesn't seem to be any any force behind it and the the bank rescues. Have come with no strings attached the the that call that Thomas had for at least be prepared. To temporarily. Nationalize or put into receivership. Some of the worst things was partly a way to make sure that. That taxpayers we're getting good deal if we're gonna be providing the back stopping that makes these things for five. Taxpayers should have a share in the upside as well that that did not happen. Basically need that the administration has been -- very worried about disturbing the confidence. Financial institutions. Which some of great job it at restoring but unfortunately that confidence hasn't let the lending and in the cross that lost the confidence of the American people which is rather more important."

" so what should he do any new quote Europe colleague Frank Rich. Who says that there are people especially on the left who feel punk -- by Barack oniyama. Feel as if he's not who they thought he was an exciting -- which is you have with the Wall Street and the ideology may -- of the markets at this."

" Point I think the window for. Taking a tougher line with the banks may have pastoral Pope wouldn't come back to it but. We need him out there now talking about health care with real. Passion -- fervor and -- making the moral case. Not just I'm -- bend the curves and I'm gonna reduce costs because that has turned out to open a door to peoples' and oh yeah and it. Have death panels and and shuffled the seniors off to an early grave. This needs to. It will be an outrage if we don't a little bit of fire and brimstone about the opponents would be helpful I I don't know if he can do any of I don't know Pete. If that's him but but this is where what what we're missing we're not seeing. A compelling case for. What what can be done that we've basically got the president. Portray himself as a better manager. Which undoubtedly he has compared with previous. Occupant of the office but but we're not seeing."

" And really make that case for. Things need to different countries you -- that President Obama has been really unable to show passion briefly dissident. Even about the blatant lies as you call them from the right. -- first welcomed and will come back. I -- want to to address the fears of angry seniors at town hall meetings that can do that we'll have more oil with economist Paul Krugman and later today. Football practice in the summer son on a good mix second limit here now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to our conversation today with Paul Krugman the Nobel prize winning economist and columnist for the New York Times. Talking about the economy and Paul but stay where we -- on health care and specifically the proposed public option for the uninsured. Got to put aside for second when you and others say are false claims about rationing care or pulling the plug -- granma. What about concerns about cost of public public option make your case."

" Cost."

" The costs are modest in the scheme of things all the proposals coming from various democratic committees are deficit neutral that is they'll pay for."

" The expansion called study that people don't believe that. And you and you two point outlined. Public options what you believe a public option will keep costs down how public action does two things."

" It provides effective competition for private insurers in most states they're -- is very little competition there is one or two. Insurance companies that really dominate the market here. Pretty close to be monopolies and the public option would give them some competition. And a lot of historical experience says that a straight seven. -- Government plan even if it's plain -- will have lower costs because you point out."

" Public plan usually have lower government and then of more bargaining."

" That's right we have a pretty straightforward experiment they're they're these plans Medicare Advantage where Medicare payments are funnel through private insurance companies. For much to the history of this and it turned out that Medicare was more efficient than any of these private plans. Mean it wouldn't be true and a larger sense but you'll want to have that competition to see what happens but what about the fear that it would be true and it would put private insurance business well if they can't actually provide health insurance at lower cost."

" Then why not -- different programs he no one of the most interesting things I've I've reviewers have recently. You. A town hall meeting in South Carolina is representative Bob Inglis. And as we been hearing in many town halls. People are standing up of women in particular was saying keep your government hands off my Medicare this just the most amazing -- people think that healthcare. It's basically paid for pride in America."

" And they don't realize many of the people demonstrating the town holes are fact elderly people who are on Medicare they don't realize that we actually have a largely."

" Government run insurance system already know we don't Indians you know insulting the people who absolutely -- Medicare is that you give other examples of."

" Tell the -- the time Arthur Laffer of a."

" The famous or infamous curve. Was on TV saying -- just watch what happens if a government gets its hands on Medicare and Medicaid it'll be like the post office -- Medicare and Medicaid being government programs and the post office -- being. Highly popular among the American people. So only those -- doing well yep that's because it has some mandates. And the point is there's been tremendous and misinformation spread. And I don't think people are stupid I think people are busy their programs they have lives and if you have a constant. Flood. This information coming from the right pretty much not. Fact check by many news media organizations then people get a distorted impression. President this is important because this actually relates the issue of cost we asked the question can we fourteen have universal health insurance. The expensive people. The elderly. The very -- are all pretty covered by the taxpayer they're they're covered by Medicare covered by Medicaid. Private insurance companies only pay for a third of health care America right now. And the people who are uninsured tend to be younger adults they're actually cheap it really costs remarkably little extra money to. Pay for the health care the people who are now out in the cold."

" But to the huge fear we were talking about elderly in the Medicare recipients and as you were saying you -- other examples of town hall meetings. Where people are screaming get to keep the government out of my health care and then they're asked to raise hands who's on Medicare in the whole room raises their hand there's this. Disconnect somehow not understanding. That government is already in their health care. But there's a fear that Medicare in particular is going to be cut to pay for this new plan."

" It's certainly not in the plant what's in the plan is simply that medic here. Should to research into which treatments are effective and that this should be used to provide recommendations about what it pays for. The incredible irony here is that they're Republicans were pushing this. Are the people who have been screaming for decades either that we must not have medic here before it was implemented. Or that we must cut it -- to people remember the government shutdown of 1995. The US government shut down for awhile. And shut down in a confrontation between the Republican congress and President Bill Clinton. And it happened because Republicans were trying to force Clinton to agree to savage cuts in Medicare funding. Now those same people are saying owe the Democrats are gonna take away your Medicare -- into the death panels it's incredible practices it's happening right now."

" And that's that's the language. That has very much frighten people they think that an 85 year old an eight year old is gonna be judged you know the treatment is going to be judged unnecessary just because a year."

" Age it does not mean that at all. What researchers have looked at what's very much influencing all of this is that. Medicare has vastly uneven spending across United States. You can look at a place like Minneapolis and find that it spends much much less on. Medicare recipients there and Miami does or or ex New York does. What's happening is that in some places. Basically the medical system is gone wild doctors ordering lots of unnecessary tests doctors performing procedures that are as likely to harm or more likely to harm than good so although we're talking about here is trying to. Provide some guidance so that we don't waste money and actually probably degrade the quality of seniors lives with unnecessary procedures."

" And what about people inside the fence who say yes we need improved. Health care but pay for it with tax credits slipped market do it don't. Completely revamp what which we have which some people feel this is pretty good."

" That's fine as long as you've never had to hang -- basically. The -- with trying to do this through the individual market is that we know that it works therapy because insurance companies. Will reject you for insurance if you have any sort. Pre existing condition -- they might interpret. So this notion that the market is the solution is a faith that flies totally in the face of evidence this is a pure fantasy driven by ideology."

" That's Nobel prize winning economist in New York Times columnist Paul Krugman -- thanks so much thanks so. Okay we wanna give you a chance to air -- just -- here now dot org you can click on contact us to send an email. He can scroll down and click on comments Cleveland right there or. Make a phone call to get off your chest he'd love to hear from you. And tomorrow I'm here now there are rules and regulations for banks -- as many as milk of human life but it may be some new lines mean it's time to get a new credit card that's sort of mock. Here now."

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" Decision to release the Libyan convicted in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing is now raising questions about Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi to visit to the US next month. Qaddafi plans to set up his luxury tent on the lawn of Libyan owned a state in Englewood New Jersey. New Jersey lost 32 people in the bombing of pan am flight one of the over Lockerbie Scotland and residents and public officials there are outraged and there are also questions about whether President Obama will face an awkward meeting with Qaddafi. When -- comes to the UN in September. The Scottish Justice Minister said he released Abdel basset Al megrahi because he's dying of prostate cancer. But went on the -- he received a hero's welcome in Libya it's off a firestorm from people who believe Scotland and a greater Britain's real motivation. Might have been Libya's oil. BBC diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus joins us from London Jonathan what's been the reaction there."

" Well I think just as in the United States there has been a lot of criticism of the decision. I think Lou there was a particular problem for the Scottish government here because. There is no federal system like in the United States there is no United Kingdom -- supreme colts that might make these decisions so what the Scottish government found itself in -- Scottish Justice Minister. But he found himself making a decision on a very. Narrow basis to look at -- Scottish -- had done in the pulsed with similar cases where people convicted of very serious crimes have been very close to to death themselves. There was a great difference of opinion in Scotland to but he was back to the house being -- for example by the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland by the main Protestant. Churches in Scotland and the broader forum policy implications of war this we're really not something that it was the Scottish government's position. To consider."

" We'll witnessed this you'll notice isn't any criminal just any criminal and there is the thinking that this is part of a trade deal between Britain and Libya. Gadhafi son was involved in talks so what do we know more about that."

" There is no doubt there have been a lot of contact so with Libya. Just by Britain but by the United States in the wake of -- coming in from the cold. Renouncing terrorism giving up its weapons of mass destruction programs and -- And there's equally no doubt that -- Paulson -- dot is a desire both to engage with Libya in counterterrorism activities but also -- schools to be able to exploit the Libyan oil. And gas was how much is the decision that has been made that it is better to have -- be very -- light inside the tent rather than outside. I think there's -- a substantial evidence showed that -- specific decision was in any way influenced by specific that trading concerns yes there have -- meetings with an -- Mandelson senior British government minister among colonel -- suns yes of course the Libyans who said that every time -- discussed trade deals with. Brits are -- with the west and mr. Al McGraw he's case has been brought up. But I think you'll be very hard the moment to find any really conclusive evidence of a specific link between any specific trade deals. And the decision by the Scottish Justice Minister to a release mr. on the ground -- on compassionate grounds."

" Jonathan Marcus what happens now though you mentioned. Gaddafi being the leader who came in from the cold he's. Supposedly the rehabilitated leader and hearing is on the way to the UN next month what happens then what can world leaders like. President Obama and may be a British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Do from here -- that they are seen shaking his hand what happens."

" Well I think clearly they're gonna have been some very serious I'm thinking given as to how they interactive patrol with the Libyan leader. Earlier today Gordon Brown and Rudy has less significant comment on the whole of that. Made it clear that he was angered and repulsed but the reception mr. on the growing he had -- in Libya one should note this was -- a reception that went antibody against the expressed wishes all Gordon Brown he told the Libyan leader. Very clearly that he was expecting -- all the more low key approach when the style McGraw a return to -- and soil so I think it's gonna be interesting now to see how a key western leaders with the UN General Assembly coming up choose to deal with the Libyan leader and keep them."

" In from the cold -- Jonathan Marcus the BBC's diplomatic correspondent SP -- us from London Jonathan many thanks volatile doesn't. OK just ahead today a new program to treat adults with autism -- adults most of them are still -- their pediatricians. That's in thirty seconds here and now."

" And."

" In the 1980s there was a surge in the number of children diagnosed with autism. Today on average one in 150 children born are eventually diagnosed with a neurological disorder. Why so many of -- still a matter of great debate but one thing we do know those early patients are grown up now. And by and -- the medical community still treats them like children. Through the generosity of between nine million dollar gift and the Agassi of our next guest. Boston's Massachusetts General Hospital is launching a new program that will focus on adult artist and it's called. The Lurie family autism center. Doctor Margaret bound man is an associate professor of neurology at Harvard and the director of letters at mass general hospital to program. She founded back in 1981 for learning and developmental disabilities. Doctor if it'll tell us how many adults autism patients are we talking about I'm kind of special treatment do they need as they get older."

" Well in the first place I think that number is really not down. All I can say is that we didn't business long enough that many of our children have grown up and now aren't there 203040. Very hard data by the adults because many of them change over time they look. Let's say that -- less artistic but many about. Kind of drift into the world of mental retardation and other developmental disability -- Comedy adults really are out there was -- to them I don't really know what that figure it. And terms of what kinds of services these folks. Require that apparently require regular medical care the problem is that -- is -- air force -- person to accept. These services. Frequently there CNN clinic. I just -- neurology clinic grippy -- medicine clinic at Huntsville liked about stop hospital. And that's likely to be and they're generally seen by the house -- fellows residents to cut. The downside of that is that many of those people rotate out -- continuity of care is not be there long term. The other thing I think it's a bit difficult is that many of them don't have means of necessarily pointing to their head -- put together to -- telling you that they haven't -- And we discovered just because we've had this clinic that's been a multidisciplinary. Clinic that we've been able to include a -- struck out just for example of that cycle. Oncologists that it had all these other ancillary services. Really kind of a one stop shop operation where families can get I'm much more comprehensive overview. There relatives of regular clinical -- Then there's the issue of how do you get -- vocational area some of our kids their -- not to college how do you manage that Sony is really getting much more complex. Likely given the fact that many of them had very good player that is whatever little -- and coming up after the bank. The college bound kids are gonna -- countless different not only does about Obama that might be good for the colleges universities."

" He's still looking to the thought to that and not -- incentive for adults -- primarily for adults with autism. I don't know might treat them differently is is there a sense that they will be treated less like children and that may be a good thing if their."

" yeah I think the general public expectations for anybody on the opposite spectrum probably in this -- it should be happier. I'm wonderful adult or -- or extremely bright and who are communicating with us now to these -- systems and various. Technologies that have come on line we've got coverage that they are a lot of those heads that they are not able to express. And I think it I'd probably get pretty insulting frankly a lot of these adult -- to be treated like children because that's the way they could proceed."

" The effect that they aren't growing older as you said you mentioned -- job training and things to make them a functioning in society and this might remember author Carl -- Greenfield recent book. About -- and take care of its sibling Noah. And and being very frank about reasoning it he writes will I always be there for -- as my parents have been I wish I could say yes but honestly I don't know. Is part of what. Center that might be therefore to help. When siblings just can't do what their parents steer it."

" Absolutely. They -- our goal is -- start very early could help these people become an independent as I possibly can each. To help them develop got a guild I'll that he ever at least are now. -- established farm communities are the kinds of communities where they're growing child will be here to someday and be supported it -- bulk. -- Why can't manages. That's thirty years old who -- a vacuum. Has so little vacuum. When he was younger -- found a wonderful job and say well respected I don't count. And he's been Andy yup employee of the month twice and has really been quite successful. -- doing that and he'd take his deposit back at fourteen -- call. That he is a pretty independent --"

" you as you -- in the forefront of autism research. You were part of debunking the myth that the cause of autism. Was the refrigerator moms I think as the phrase -- a cold non. Not true. And practical do you think we've had this increasing cases."

" I think they're a couple of factors why they expect that I would capacity refrigerator migratory bird until there. And so our ability to give that diagnosis to a child. Yeah -- we thought they had I did was difficult because of that implied that apparently the bad air. And they were virtually no service that many of these people were put into education and it would. Really difficult to get the -- but somebody at that point. Aperture the eighties when it became clear that it was a developmental disabilities. That began -- I think we've gone now broaden the spectrum. -- person who. Artistic person that at a quarter rocked back and forth had no I contact and had -- language. In the last time I can't catch a child like that I can't remember. Now what do you could say well you know has a whole presentation change somehow. Maybe go to it's really a contract got less than -- that more or it -- that we're talking them up early as what we. The police. And giving them early intervention services that we really don't repeat that cut. Syndrome anymore. Believe -- that broadened the definition what I have read that we did have a thing called Asperger's syndrome we didn't have the term. Pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified that didn't think. Ballot is there -- have something else and the environmental I think most of Clinton's client believed that they're very genetically that it didn't order. But the remaining question is it simply genetic vulnerability for something in the apartment I don't of the Apatow laugh."

" Do you know that it's not vaccines weeks."

" Yes and I'm fairly confident it's not acting differently disorder that getting prenatal Lee did what they anatomy of how fast. And there's actually no evidence from a pure biological perspective. That if either vaccines Mercury."

" It's fascinating and that's doctor Margaret Bowman she's a child neurologist at Massachusetts General Hospital here in Boston also the MGH distinguished scholar in autism. And the hospitals Lurie family autism center. Officially opens today. After about an thank you invest in a --"

" It. OK before we go to day are you heading out for football practice or me your child is well. It's in the 80s. Hundreds across the country is this a good idea. That's and one minute. Here now."

" Welcome back to the sports corner of here and now we have centric news to start. World champion runner castor -- menu was greeted by thousands of fans today in your -- expert South Africa returning from Berlin. Where last week she won the women's world 800 meters title. But the teenagers victory has been overshadowed by questions about whether she is a she or I heat. The BBC is reporting today that tests reveal her testosterone level is three times higher than those expected in a female sample. The international association of athletics federations had demanded that she take a gender identity authentication test but final results won't be known for awhile. So more sports news next week a criminal. Trial is scheduled to begin in Kentucky in connection with the heat related death. A high school football player on the pleasure ridge park high school team. Former coach Jason Stinson is charged with reckless homicide after fifteen year old -- and collapsed during football practice in August of 2008. And died three days later in Louisville hospital. Stinson who's been reassigned from his coaching duties pending the result of this criminal trial pled not guilty. 2008 was one of the deadliest years on record for heat related football deaths besides max -- Five other players died from heat stroke and so far this pre season. At least three high school or college players have died whether it's the heat is still being determined that. We wanted to check in on summer football practice don't you move from NPR's only -- prepared this report."

" For many fans football is a rite of fall that goes hand in hand with the new school year and the changing colors of the foliage. But for players and coaches the real work begins with training camps in double session practices. In sometime sweltering summer weather. During the 2008 football season for high school and two college players died of heat stroke. That's the highest number of heat stroke deaths and seven players died in 1972. Frederick Mueller he's the director of the national center for catastrophic sports injury research. Which is based at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. The American football coaches association tracks football related deaths Mueller co authors that -- annual survey."

" Since 1995. There's been and they did increase in the number of future of this have been 39 total. Through -- says an eight. 29 of those retired school level and since Friday's targets were -- real concern."

" There have been 125. Heatstroke death since the data was first recorded in 1931. Perhaps the most widely reported of them happened on July 31 2001. When vikings offensive lineman Korey Stringer collapsed during the second day of training camp in Mankato Minnesota. The heat index which combines temperature and humidity reached 110 on the field that day. The 335. Pound tackle was coming off his first all pro season he died the next day. The 27 year old is the only player in NFL history to die of heat stroke. -- Gould was stringers agent and now serves as spokesman for the stringer family. School says players need to be educated about the risks so they'll be more comfortable admitting when they're not feeling well."

" No one's going to challenge what a coach. Or trainer or anybody is not -- I mean they're there to take the orders and go in deliver the blows and do what they're gonna do about the sport."

" In 2003. Stringers widow settled with one of the doctors who treated her husband. Earlier this year Kelsey stringer and the NFL also agreed to a settlement. Which includes plans for a league sponsored program to educate amateur and professional coaches and players about the dangers and heat illness. Kelsey stringer is also suing -- the maker of that helmet and shoulder pads Korey Stringer warrior training camp. The lawsuit alleges -- Dell had an obligation to put warnings about heat stroke on the equipment. -- turned down only games requests for an interview. Via email a spokesman wrote quote as we intend to aggressively defend our products at trial. It would be inappropriate to comment on the facts and issues involved prior to trial on quote. Stringer family spokesman Jimmy Gould says he believes warnings could've made a difference."

" It forces the trainers and the people that are there on site. The pay special attention that there is a reason that there's a warning -- where there's no warning them that they -- put off because that's just behavior. By having a warning you're telling somebody this may have been the whale was back -- have but there's just too many people going down right now."

" As -- one stringers prepare for a jury trial in US district court in November. A criminal trial involving another football death is set to begin on August 31 in Kentucky. Fifteen year old max -- been collapsed during practice in Louisville last August and died three days later. According to the Jefferson County coroner's office the sophomores body temperature was 107 degrees. His coach David Jason Stinson is charged with reckless homicide. And may also face a charge of first degree wanton endangerment. The maximum sentence for each is five years in prison. He opens parents have also filed a civil suit against Stinson another school employees. Frederick Mueller says in nearly three decades of tracking football deaths. This is the first time he's heard of a coach facing criminal charges after heat stroke incidence. Mueller's 2009 report is unequivocal about football's heat related deaths. Quote there is no excuse for any number of heat stroke deaths since they are all preventable with the proper precautions. On -- Mueller says there are several steps teams need to take to protect players."

" Don't know where they're coming from but it happened at work and -- summer than they've been the mountains in the cooler climate. You have to climate ties to -- to get used to the heat. Weigh in before practice way out as a practicing how much where you lost. Rest periods for the athletes -- alma school down and let him drink cold water."

" Doctor -- a share is the chairman of the student health and sports medicine committee for the Massachusetts medical society. A share says improper hydration is a major safety issue. And educational programs for players and coaches need to break down the perception that withholding water will make players tougher."

" Some coaches feel if you take a drink during a practice and engage your less capable. And indeed that's just not true the video -- I think the better you're gonna play."

" At least three players have died in pre season practices in 2009. On July -- Western Carolina University player -- Quaid and smalls died during voluntary workouts in North Carolina. On July 20 ninth Fort Campbell junior Timothy Williams became the third Kentucky high school football player to die in the past four years. After he became disoriented and practice. And last week sixteen year old Ramon Tyndall was practicing for New Madrid county central high school in Missouri when he collapsed and died. The final autopsy results are pending for all three athletes. -- international."