Title: ACLU looks to hold CIA accountable for interrogations

" Reporting my guest is an attorney with the organization that so the government to force the release of the internal report on CIA interrogation practices. Carol roses the executive director of the American civil liberties union of Massachusetts what Carol I think it's nice to be nice to have you here. Now the ACLU believes that the attorney general Eric Holder should go ahead right now and begin. The prosecutorial process and not look for one of these interim investigations."

" I think it's important that as we -- investigation starting and that's important for stuff that we often not be afraid to let that investigation lead -- stepfather just talking about a preliminary investigation and right now we have a lot of preliminary information out there from this report that was released as a result of an ACLU Freedom of Information Act request. -- congressional reports and memos from the office of legal counsel that have been made public we know the abuses of taken place. The question is are we can hold people accountable and not just a few military men and women servicemen and women. Who may have been acting under orders are really talking about how is anyone in this country really above the law are below the law what does that mean for the American. So value system."

" So you think we should not just prosecute the the hands out abusers but follow the trail wherever it may go even if it goes to 1600 Pennsylvania."

" Absolutely I mean we're a country of laws not men and no one should be above the law or may be hiding below the law. Or away from the law if we're gonna hold people accountable it's not fair to hold the low level people is what happened after Abu Ghraib abuses came out. We -- prosecutor if you low level. Military servicemen and women why should say. And be glad the only people who are held accountable when in fact they may well have been acting under orders from people at the very highest levels. Everybody should be held accountable -- factors responsible for making these decisions."

" But in other president has been criticized for what is it that is the quote was we should be looking ahead. Not backwards but on the other hand -- be criticized true well it isn't this like a prosecutorial. Independence is that what he's."

" Well outside the stadium and I think Eric -- they the attorney general is correct in saying he's an independent actor heat pass to follow the facts and the law take him. To the extent that this is about looking forward. If we fail to hold people accountable for the crimes have been committed what's to prevent them or other people from committed those crimes again in the future. It's not enough just as they were looking forward for unwilling. To hold people accountable for crimes that have taken place. Cows -- are difference between torture and torment. Well sure I mean there's legal standards this that the difference on what is actually considered. Illegal torture under the convention against torture under US federal laws. Things like that you and I can disagree as a matter of what we think it should be defined ethical -- actually quite clear. And it seems to be based on what we know so far this thing clearly violent. But if you're playing loud music for example 24 hours a day that that's quite different then than physically hurting someone. Well yeah can be although sleep deprivation can be taught me -- torment as well. Certainly refusing to let people sleep slapping him around threatening them with -- threatening to kill their children. Those are things that any of us for yourself and in or any of us were to put our -- and that position is if our children ever threaten our families are threatened. We might well give false information. In a false confession. Simply so that we could how the torture and you know we have it in regimes like in Iran right now we're. There's allegations of torture and abuse -- isn't that shameful but we don't want to be that way in America no danger about destroying morale -- the CIA if this thing. Continue on to the contrary I think that in the good CIA agents with good FBI agents who are out there. They and the good interrogators they don't want to walking -- You have to -- the whole purpose of terrorism to -- to get our government to turn against our our values our system. If we become like the terrorists from the terrorist plan. We wanna be. Democrats small the Americans and uphold American values and beliefs and the way to do that is to make sure we remain a nation of laws. And not have only punish the low level people think -- Carol rows of the civil liberties union of Massachusetts thanks Carol."