Title: Skeptics Guide #214 - Aug 25 2009

" You're listening to the skeptics guide to give you give us your escape. -- reality."

" Hello welcome to the skeptics guide to the university Tuesday August 25 2009. And this is your host Steve and of our. Joining me this week Arafat Novella. Everybody Rebecca Watson has -- I'm seeing -- guys and Evan Bernstein kept August 25 sixteen on nine. 400. Years ago this very day if that are brand Galileo gals say it's so nice they named him twice presented. Is version of his telescope. To be sent. Of the city state events but Chris he wasn't the first -- to develop the telescope."

" I know they know he wasn't -- unknown factor other designs it was he he modified it based on a Dutch design from the telescope that he I guess it worked with a year prior. He probably also wasn't the first person appointed a that this guy either. But he certainly was the first to popularize. Ortiz make scientific discoveries in net and survive -- debt retirement the seeds of modern modern science and restaurant."

" To celebrate that by the way is -- companies making available the Galileo scope of these -- heard about it now yeah. Yet reference to the international year of astronomy at an extreme right. Yeah -- within a ten dollar sheets are really cheap the idea fifteen dollars it's it's supposed I don't country that's roughly the same size and quality. As the one can only use. And -- played refute it he got his he bought one crawl out. It has -- glass lenses as you know really works its low power. And you know there's there's no matter -- anything in his editorial mounts or does it does is using adaptive optics. -- her other not based on not based again this is -- technology. I know that an attack in this."

" We need to do is get really drunk go to Phil's house and to start -- now it is. Telescope does that come with a certificate that say you'll be burned if you look into the heavens with this telescope and sadly now that's that. Well we do have a few news items TNT tonight. The first one to actually a little bit also I unifil plate -- news item having to do with death from the skies. This is really a news article looking at what would happen if there was a cataclysmic events such as an asteroid striking your. The kindest thing that would. Shrouded the earth in darkness. For a six month period. Now it's pretty obvious that that would be a bad thing. And that would have a dramatic effect on life on earth. But some researchers specifically Charles Koppel at the open university center for Earth's planetary space in front of research in Milton -- UK. Wanted to find out what happened to photo tropic species if they were deprived of -- for six months so. These are you microscopic creatures had in there. Photo troops which use light to make energy. And it makes a trucks makes -- troops are mixers they can make its energy from light but he can also eat that things. Think it's diminishing that way. What he found was a little surprising. It turns out that. Yes a lot of the photo troops died once they were deprived of light but some of them actually survived and -- dormant state for the -- six months cool the next troops did just fine actually thrived quite nicely. In the environment -- and being already adapted to getting some nutrition without light and against the all the dying -- provided a lot of raw material for the they also found out that after the six months for -- restore -- restore the light that the photo trumps. The ones that survived bounced back quite nicely. And in fact they were helped in their recovery Biden nutrient rich environments. Created by the Mexico the nutrient turning over that was -- write about in the sutra it's continuing to eat staff so but this shows is that even after a a cataclysmic event that kind of thing that we do you know basically block out the sun for six months. That a photo synthetic microscopic organism would not necessarily become extinct that they could actually survive. And then re popular T oceans I guess."

" I see no -- though we will all be dead and gone and some. I don't know we can probably surprised and the impact totally anatomy and yeah. Let's it's nice to know that now Steve -- assume that you're talking about a lot of these creatures are playing and -- him face to the food chain like fight like it was. It's nice to know that that the base of the food chain was you know we've largely or mostly intact. Or even a little attack after after this event -- you know want to lose that then and it everything else class escalates."

" Yeah I mean if that showed that. Even at six -- for it was wouldn't bounce back that they would be all dead and I'll be it. Or even after a short period of time India would be have been and more dire implications right and a medium kind of strike. It was committed a massive volcanic eruption could also result in the -- of course and nuclear -- what was one of the scenarios that it. Trapped the -- Yeah its its its interest in finding there was another news article that also. I discussed. A cataclysmic. Apocalyptic. Event. Her saying you guys -- heard about Tennessee. Scholarly study mathematically evaluating. What would happen during a zombie apocalypse."

" I wrote it of others. A broad it lived it which automatically initiate our reacted with the fact I would worship human ways that you have now. I I -- just -- this is actually. One of those things that happens that makes me because there are really cool people out there that I don't know about it's called out. When zombies attack exclamation point mathematical modeling of an outbreak of zombie infection and this is actually published. In a book of infectious disease. On who's written by four Canadian -- petitioners have not sure if there were students or -- a mixture of students and teachers there's at least one assistant professor and it but the the basic idea is that this is. A instructive. Treatment to develop a mathematical model for an unusual outbreak they just picked you know zombie or zombie plague -- as the example. Real quick to go to the basics of the study did they came up. -- to the idea that there be three different ways. That the -- at the label people and zombies one assists susceptible which major human that's. Could -- potentially infected with the with the virus you're zombie or you're removed which. I think major dead yet did you register yours on strike again there I have I pulled out one quote at the end and I think kind of sums up. This very well is that this demonstrates the flexibility of mathematical modeling and shows how modeling can respond to a wide variety of challenges in quote on quote biology. In summary. A zombie outbreak is likely to lead to the collapse of civilization as it is dealt with quickly. While aggressive quarantine may contain the epidemic or cure may lead to co existence of humans that zombies the most effective way to contain -- highs of the dead. Is -- hit hard hit off that. Just like having sex life as seen in the movies it is imperative that is obviously dealt with quickly or else we are all agree it a great deal of trouble. That's just like world -- Zain at the same basic premise that the that but there's a legitimate the study wasn't isn't just a joke in just talking about about this earlier. And I was saying no the these are definitely. People letter. Sands of -- zombies or at least some of the people of our fans have of the zombie culture and all that and also I'm. They just thought this would be a fun thing to take and do a legitimate mathematical study on and I don't think it was a real waste of time I think that they can get some legitimate. Concepts out of this and it can't."

" Hypothetical infection right -- the exact same visas is irrelevant. I only did he could use the same mathematics to you. To map out elite consists of political parties for example -- they -- diseases with a with a dormant infection and -- life. Lots of different kinds of things where there's something spreading right. What they went -- instinct in -- said was that if an infection breaks out in the city of 500000 people was on visual outnumber the susceptible to about three days. We're. Yes the president to -- that they use have been zombies take over the world pretty quickly. And then an interview with the scattered incidents that the only. The scenario that ends the the the spread of the zombie infection. He's was eggs -- against similar to world where is he we've been seen a massive army to roll through the countryside -- meeting every zombie earthquake which."

" He did you have to be really prepared before. To yet really anticipated. Which is kind of scary is how prepared are we really -- A lot of crazy stuff I'm completely prepared for a perfect yeah I know Larry I -- have Matt saying that's safe room as I just record I think ardent. Garlic I got silver bullets that go wolf Spain -- alma got every day ever since he got Jardine Jada Pinkett is offset. I'm upset I'm ready. But I -- I'm not only are well I am ready to roll it you can see these guys these modifications when their when they were creating this. To see him sitting their giggling saying to themselves you know what kind of free press we're gonna get."

" When we now you know it was -- I. With -- as a regular old mathematical epidemiological studies and it got all this press because they -- guys on -- that model. Brilliant brilliant inspired. Yeah all research now Washington in the context of zombies -- everyone will you know that will become a scientifically literate society before you know it but it does not the first ones to."

" Do this stuff I mean there have been similar papers. Looking at the feasibility for example of vampires. And spreading -- him and like me using that as a model assuming that. You know if you create a vampire and a vampire has also feed -- and eventually there won't be enough human cattle to feed all the vampires."

" And also. There's been am -- he studies on and Haitian zombies like actual. Cases of people who -- our -- seems obvious well. It's it's sure than you you might imagine actress Diane Diane. Isaac Asimov mysterious universe. Yeah."

" There that there are ordering concern that yes. And so now it's facing really fascinating. I try to bury them alive and got out but and and that."

" Yeah I would love it days suspected that they used. I don't know how to pronounce and catcher dot."

" Tip to trotted toxic sort of cuts have you tried it -- I thought I. TTE and."

" But yeah Canada its its its -- into the into the real life aspects. That."

" modern day myths and couldn't come from her."

" And he's -- since their relations and it's not that bad of an idea to do something like this for for. Several reasons one of them is so. You know first of all it does get press which is good side you know it's not bad to have some of your research done in such a fashion -- get some publicity. Enjoy it might it might interest. Some people that normally wouldn't read something like this -- I have to admit like I looked deeper into this study just. Because I'm I'm a fan of the of this topic and I was reading stuff that I normally wouldn't even make an attempt to -- because you know math and particularly at this time. A math minded person but. I was able to follow it. To a certain degree guy's got a little bit past for you know quick very much pass from -- but the bottom line is. I did read it in hours interest -- so that's due to popular science for -- us and again. Yes just to make a few quick statements here at present throughout what are my favorite cup -- formula. Zombies. Should not be able to talk they will eat anything any warm -- has brains thing is ridiculous. Slow moving. Huge amount of numbers. Very dumb very slow here and traditionalists when it comes as a."

" Yeah species a slow walker he's a shuffle her and it -- camp as well although I don't mind the runners. I mean chaff there's just so much easier to get away from now you happen but the fact is that there's so many government there to there implacable -- just gonna get you detect a metaphor for gathright is pretty much what they are. Wayne I thought they were a metaphor for -- it's in terrorism. Did that -- Marist dawn of the dead yet is there's lots it is lots of metaphors and now we're afraid my favorite her right at the there's a lot of you realize that that's -- August. But the perils of -- let's."

" Let's move -- some more serious topics the World Health Organization. -- right -- Recently. -- have made several negative statements regarding the use them holding out. Very very positive so but they -- Britain and of getting sued for the heck. This was provoked actually. By an open letter. From the voice of young science which is a group of young medics from the UK. Who are skeptics in your favorite of science based medicine. And the other who they -- WHO. Has. Made because they're really a very political organization. They've been very wishy washy when it comes to -- unscientific. And medical modalities. Usually. Derek how -- because of did the notion that they want to respect. Regional differences of war. Like the did speak the cultural medicine of indigenous people whatever so and in that guys. They've -- seen -- taken very wishy washy stances towards unscientific modalities. So. When asked specifically about the use of on the opposite the four HIV tuberculosis malaria influenza and also infant diarrhea so those are. Being serious. Conditions that especially in under underdeveloped and poor parts of the world especially in Africa. Did you -- those diseases are taking really significant hole. And hold me up with the is being offered. Tip to treat these very serious illnesses so they leave the WHO says take a stance on this and he had to their credit. They put out a press release. Clarifying their position. Saying that. On the property is bunk that doesn't work the US to do this sense about science. Is -- is the is in UK group I think that part of that group is. The voice of young science."

" Yet they're the ones who are doing a great job keeping everybody up to date on Simon Singh's -- yeah and circulating petitions expect that they -- and a fantastic."

" You had to do their -- great job keep libel laws out of out of ninth via. So here is one is a couple quotes one from doctor. Doctor Mary -- Leone director of stop TB department of the competitor. Our evidence based WHO TB treatment programs as well as the international standards of tuberculosis -- do not recommend use of Romeo. Other quotes WA -- evidence based guidelines on treatment of tuberculosis have no place for homeopathic medicines. Let me end by congratulating me and clinicians -- resurgence -- the outside for their efforts to -- evidence based approach to treating people living with HIV. They did a very good -- they say listen these are serious illnesses these are vulnerable populations -- population to being victimized by pseudo scientific quackery basically. And the WH -- take a stance on the -- forced them basically declare try to positioning. And and very nicely came out solidly against the use of home apathy -- serious illnesses awesome. That time in America. Right. And they know is always bring this always have highlights the fact that. You know things like -- a teeny game they're very quick he is an ideal home a home Japanese -- 200 year old system which uses such extreme dilution of of remedies that there's no active ingredients laughed and is based upon -- pseudo scientific notion of the so called law of some hours. Which is really a former sympathetic magic it's not a scientific. -- it is it is a completely pre scientific pursuit of scientific. 200 year old system of medicine."

" It is ticker remedy that's not really remedy and deluded into nothingness and -- it yes but every time. We talk about -- apathy we make that point. Is one thing that keeps. Hitting Munich the other thing is they they treat like with like like in other words. If you're trying to give somebody is sleeping -- the active ingredient would actually be caffeine and then it did they make a cup."

" false analogies to try to justify that team the most common one is the analogy to vaccines. But vaccines actually gave a measurable amount of substance that is to that is designed to provoke an immune response. So these disasters is no there's no. Analogy it's a lot similar zone and lava infinite --"

" it's it's worth noting that. Someone wrote in to -- last week and they were under the impression that home ya that he was somehow related to various. Forms of treating diseases in this similar kind of way as they like with with vaccines. But this two things were developed completely independently and actually don't have anything to do with each other at all it's not. -- up that he grew into the idea vaccines that is not the way happens coming up he's always been complete matter pseudoscience."

" Right and hostile to scientific medicine. Indeed in no ways -- of the tradition of such signs basements were added you guys ever treated with a homeopathic remedy. I was -- to my knowledge."

" Long long ago I. I had a college professor recommended and and immunology just and I went and I remembered the guy had like this it looked like a soldering iron you know like a soldering. That was like you're gonna it was like that you know that the when he hand held hold a pen -- VATICAN medal and -- and he had this contraption just check this out. He took these little vials of water went with those that are. Andy at this whole huge tray of them and he took about any pop demand to like this machine -- record a receptacle on knowledge it was a touch like the metal top of the the little -- water. And I guess they run an electrical charge Sudan and they've run this electrical charge through the end of this -- thing that he had. Any touch and I couldn't a knuckle -- one of my hands and he was testing make the capacitance or something like the resistance. And then anything and I guess at that had some reading whatever there reading was he was looking for. -- I was deemed allergic to that substance and then he gave me homeopathic remedies. To to do that now. Think he asked me what do you do that is they tell me about my environment what you eat a lot of so as I can highlight the oranges that's my favorite Trudy a lot of those. I have a dog. I had a couple of other things I mentioned like eight a lot has like tomato in -- saw some different stuff whatever. Ever basically everything I like our I said that I used a lot I was allergic to."

" Yeah. The -- black trick is totally that's total quackery can you can say anything you want to spread depression that he used when you applied to the skin conductance stuff. That's pure nonsense anybody comes at 21 of those things men's -- of real life. Let's go onto another news item. The fading away of medium."

" In Japan. Is the closer that appeared in the near kinds a couple of days ago and it was all about. This -- changed -- ancient Japanese tradition of of mediums who are her. Usually. Lined women and their only located in a small portion of northern Japan. And it's it's really interesting because third down skewed the last -- her third dying now because it's this. Did this ancient shaman this sick. Kind of belief systems that is being pushed out by much more modern takes on and religion. Didn't go lives that these women lead though are really fascinating. Most of them have all of them at this point our blinders nearly. Impaired. Visually impaired so the memorized. Verses. Scriptures -- Without ever actually having seen that they have to commit the mall in memory I agents the saints and the go through this intense process where. They have to dump cold water on themselves and dead of -- terror and trainees word denied any kind of sleep. And severely restricted in what kind of foods that eighty. And basically at that once they passed. Throughout the stages they would be married off to a god basically. And after that people would think they would see people who came to the mountains and get her that does speak his dad loved ones. So. It's funny because it's act. They behave exactly like. You know words used you hear yeah mediums behave. I read some. Exerts from a book that was written on them back in 1986. Called. The top of a study -- ominously practices in Japan. And we -- woman actually went and spent some time with with these women. An entity taco doing she describes it is that someone would. I'll just out this quote from actually. Throughout the day and into the evening customers would go from one blind medium to another seeking spiritual advice -- consolation. Each would ask questions about the deceased person. Was this is he's a family relation what was the cause the day in the nature of the death. Where they're surviving children have been assassin teens into which type the dead person about the taco launch into -- rapid sing song chant. Lasting five or ten minute it was not difficult -- that. That not a single one of the at taco is in any state resembling Tran. They exhibited none of the usual symptoms of search terrorist breathing and couldn't possibly shaking hands the chance they recited -- very easily seem to fall into different fixed forms. It basically they would just give these --"

" Their customers standard."

" Harsco sky dole -- means and collect their you know thirty dollars or whatever. And move on to the next one and says it's -- in to meet itchy. Something that's considered very ancient and a dying art actually be. Very very similar to what goes on today all over the world. And what are the reasons why it seems like it's dying might be because. This is one of the few."

" Opportunities for -- young blind girl to have a job in medieval."

" Asia. Was was to go into this supernatural. Healing. Arts."

" So yeah I mean is it's not really the sort of life that a girl would really want to choose I think dumping cold water on herself in the middle of winter time. So yeah I think that that. At that now that we have actual opportunities. For the disabled and and women in general."

" This is. Quickly dying in a way -- third during the debate down to a handful of women lefty still goes through all of these very ancient. Right."

" And I was reading about this -- thinking about that this question that comes up a lot is. How much of superstitions. And and believe in things like mediums he's just part of human nature will always be with fast and how much of it is cultural. -- of the New York Times article makes it sound like for example Dave Wright. They have survived government efforts to stamp them out as well as continuing disdain of many Japanese who looked down on them charlatans who trade in superstition. Traffic is the property for any kind of you know medium as it is is to look at -- is trying to -- superstition. So that I made me think this is is is Japan culturally less superstitious than say. Enough and other parts of the world. I don't I don't."

" And so because it you know I had and he could have her. Make a blanket statement like that just based upon one data point like this because as you know there are tons of -- to. But in this case. I've I've actually yeah I understand obviously that."

" They are generally sharp lessons and you know -- they're not actually telling people each year. Contact in their -- loved ones."

" But in this case I do you think its interest in because you're talking about a population of people who go into a particular train because. They have no other options from the you talking about like AP. With the Taka. That there are various other kinds non profit style on shaman mystic. And mediums in Japan. But that they -- particularly. Are apparently recruited quite young or at least they used to me. I mean in like ten years old and 1112. So. Ends you know they're they're scooping up."

" Girls who are blind -- are seen as you know."

" Different and other and they literally had no other choice and you can see in a lot of other cultures says. Many in many cultures. Any Childs. Any person with. Some sort of disfigured and that there there are borne west. And could be seen and it's been. -- that's a blessing from god and so their -- to be a part of that."

" You know mystical kind of supernatural."

" Field so yeah I mean while I understand that he added. They shouldn't be taking people's money to basically Vietnamese you know arts groups."

" I do have some sympathy for them in the fact that this is literally probably the only. Opportunities they would ever have it do something for themselves and actually make election outs."

" Yeah right I see that point 13 went with this may be considered is. Certainly some call to -- more superstitious than others Ramon I don't think we would -- that all cultures are equally superstitious. -- but how what how much do we have to play with here right how much effect we have what is. The necessary rate of superstition just because of human nature. And yet how little superstition can be had an innate human culture basically and our efforts are trying to make our own culture -- superstition."

" diet deputies serious pain it's have to tell hesitant because there's so many data points and you know oftentimes -- one superstition dine out only to be replaced by a -- other ones you know by. -- is like I am a lot of -- mystic. Cultures die out because they're seen as her radical tissues more organized religion though. Now they better offer whereas. You know."

" It's kind of tough to say depends on the religion. Deep. What do subcultures like say the subculture and could you define. Say scientist says is so so -- turn and look at it that way and see how prevalent. Superstition is first feel them you know something has brought his say scientists."

" There have been a lot of studies looking at the MP education and and being a scientist and beliefs and certain things and it -- there's certainly. Is in effect but. It's not as simple as you might think. The scientist for example may have. Less belief in its traditional organized religions. -- some superstitions but but -- me may have more believes in certain things like UFO's or. Think more of science fiction any kind of belief systems you know. What about the skeptical subculture that. -- I I think Boller that's sort of self selected for not being superstitious. And ask. But about the superstitious dams has apparently -- Into. Yeah amid. It is this question we still are investigating and in two degrees struggling with is what it is. The potential. User we always gonna have to deal with superstition in one former and others it. Between stamp out one thing is the new. The human need -- tendency for superstitious belief religious belief to crop up in some other form yet you know like a whack a mole kind of thing."

" Or I mean history which suggests that that the people of course then. Most of human history is rife with. I mean only recently and we started to sort of break a lance. I think we'll see it until we upload our minds in to computers into. Interest."

" One more on news I was -- really interest in Canadian scientists are trying to turn it checking. Into dinosaurs. I fully support that. Great what can words pollute the got to thinking that hot -- like a ticket now or what what's gonna happen what to find out and can imagine. The -- you know what you know Kentucky fried dinosaur cameos but on other word NASA they actually can ever find that out. The fifth and I think that dinosaur would find out if we tastes like chicken -- and as. A professor's name is doctor Hans Larsson and he is with -- sounds like a villains here with this this is totally getting in. And this is odd fronts. --"

" These are alien he. That is a paleontologist. He is so with Meg Whitman gill university in Montreal. In fact he's -- he holds the chair and vertebrate paleontology there. And that he's done not quite a bit of work you know obviously as paleontologist lot of field work and so forth that seems to be where his most it is. Specialty lies and most of research that he's done but recently he's been. He's been interested in the concept of trying to I guess what is considered sort of reverse engineer. Come up with a dinosaur but based on a chicken embryo. And apparently the way that he proposes to do that you could theoretically do this. Is by when you get the chicken embryo obviously in the -- state you flip certain genetic levers. During that development. And you can reproduce certain parts of a dinosaur anatomy. By doing that season. You know -- there're there are certain. Experiments that have gone on in which you have something safer flies. Right and you can get you can take -- starts I -- the embryo of reply. And you can get to it early enough in which say it won't grow its antennas norm where its antennas -- you can flip a switch and make extra legs grow out. Flight legs. Grow where an Intel wouldn't it. If you know you know if you know what I guess proteins to to fool around with there. But but we're talking about fruit fly parts right on fruit fly you know putting their legs were antennas are. I don't I don't I I don't quite understand how you get -- part it --"

" Scars to show how much certainty they've done experiments where they actually grown teeth didn't. In chickens. Be so -- there is or precedents for this they didn't genes are still there that does not expressed and a lot. A lot of evolution is not just you know change these jeans and -- what happens now it's also. When certain genes are expressed that the timing also -- I can also make huge changes I. I if I also find it difficult to imagine that they could create. A whole dinosaur but pieces of dinosaurs I could I can see easily."

" I wouldn't put anybody's talking about is creating a chicken a solar ray you're not gonna have a T Rex removal luster raptor at the end of it because we can't. -- reverse the usually chicken a Sawyer yeah I think that's content and are not me that's there aboard that has worked for. That's the best he can do is take a SARS racks coordinate -- our chickens. I had chicken dinner and yet the public a lot of chicken -- and Cyrus -- compact. It's a bit of a disembodied this."

" What is working on its archived really it's actually really needs what's it been -- if you think about creating. A dinosaurs. Species that was alive. You know eighty million years ago -- that that's probably won't get to that point and certainly not any time soon but what he's talking about. Is it really in in excellent exercise in evolutionary. Developmental biology -- diva music on right. This is in the area. The relevant area of study here and what this looks at is how the development from an embryo. Into the adult form has changed -- revolutionary history how that process involves. How you get from a dinosaur to check -- by tweaking. At all about the process. And what Larson is doing is you know of trying to figure out -- how. Eight dinosaur tail. Became a chicken tail and what what happens it would when it's important had to happen was. That the genes. That -- expressed that that cause detailed to grow into -- for a long dinosaur tail. Are being reports suppressed -- I'm so that you get the short trip into. Now we we don't understand yet all of that the chemical triggers that control. How of the development unfolds. But what he's saying is once we understand that and that's what he's researching right now obviously going back into the basic research we can kind of understand. How to control that process. We can cause. These as a chicken and embryo develops we can tweak the the chemical signals. And cause it to two. Unfolds it down a different developmental pathway a dinosaur development path but rather the chicken development apparently. So with what I found really -- is that he's not doing genetic engineering right he's not altering the genes are all. And he's got into -- again he's not introducing any foreign tissue and he's not into using any foreign genes. He has worked with what -- these guys working with the genes that are already there and just changing how they developed by altering the environment. Altering your lead to concentrations of different chemicals that are acting as a signals that are. That are control in the development of these things so he's saying if we can. Get the chicken to grow teeth and to grow long tail and to -- scales at a feathers. And you know you put enough of these things together and you have something that looks more like it Diana's -- do a check. Does that take millions of quote unquote you know flipping lever house in order to achieve what you know various could be a few also stars like you. The whole point is that one. One of regulatory teens can't control whole suite of genes. If you catch it together earlier and there's a ticket if so you like you say you can grow a little instead of an antenna. You didn't have to change all of the antenna genes into -- only had to do. Was controlled the one gene that says grow a lake here instead of grow in -- here. Right and that just goes down the lake developmental pathway into the going down the antenna and development the past when it. So he's trying to make a chicken -- go down a dinosaur tale path where it's an -- up Catholic but I just. And it doesn't matter that -- 65 million plus years of of distance basically between these two of them these two creatures what did you I don't think you're going to get a colossal -- at the end of this process rate. There's just too many genetic changes have occurred we don't have we know what all the the specific genes would -- but you can get lots of dinosaur features they are still there. -- blue jeans as pathways. That are not. Not realized in the development the process of chicken but you can make those pathways are still there the teams are still there."

" Yet the the point is the information to completely re create in specific data sort. It's overwhelmingly likely that that that that information has gone is no getting it back a grind it game over -- that impossible in in principle. There is some information that is left over that just and there -- an expressed -- expressed in the right order and you cam -- said recreate certain things like the scales or the or. Words details or some other subtle little things that you can then. Grow a chicken that that's got scales imagine that -- talk about. Proof of evolution what -- of course yeah oh accords proof of evolution Genesis yes and yeah I'm sure they point out that you come back. And say well you know all animals have this inherent information inside them in it they could come up with crap. Yeah -- and well I'm sure I mean by a car asserted their chicken teeth. Why it right chickens have teams retief if you're right if not for revolution. -- they can explain that -- they'll explain anything. That would make -- that you -- and made the cover of like every science magazine and plant. How on its ticket to act now I wanna -- folate jackal. -- is going to be."

" I'll admit that. I wanna run a source burger now hole yeah all right okay. That's right with."

" So really we need to we need to create -- Read -- re engineer of these things which do you keep them. I think I wanna I wanna go to burger king and have those reds -- so big it topples my car I took off. Look I -- you know -- you know plausibility we're not gonna see any dinosaurs. I don't think this is that we will see the check in with dinosaur features. I just want the five breasted chicken I think that would be you know we could we could solve some hunger problems and that's where. Well let's go on the current."

" You're sitting here against that was TV you question you look at -- that -- a pleasure to finally be here a long time listener. It but it. And you are a member of the New York City skeptics I have a co founder and I guess vice president of the New York City skeptics which I helped create about two years after I was a co founder of the national capital area -- at this. Founding regional -- groups that thing for awhile and moving around the country just forming scan Jessica static Internet benefit of our work is done here -- timetable on and it makes you the Ben Franklin and Scott etc. I'm okay I'll take I was good at it -- get this is a link to --"

" Oh my god -- I didn't go that route to. Right -- is okay and yeah man yeah."

" Either you're gonna be involved with the the next -- for the next this conference which is a very exciting. Cooperative event with news yourself fan New England the skeptics at the New York City skeptics in the idea that we've been kicking around for awhile over regional. A conference so we're gonna start with a one day event on September 12 with quite have actually. Robust cast of characters are pleased to say it. And hope we hope we start something good that that goes on gets bigger the Canadian -- I have indeed going to be obscene yes exactly I -- for better or for worse I will be the host. Perhaps the comic relief that's usually I would say that. The tradition of the skeptical movement goes you know centuries and centuries old rational inquiry and critical thinking and you know it is always filled with. Educators and scientists. And researchers. And academics and then. Some Kyra -- Arctic -- in the -- there's always that there's always that guy that goes back very -- you know 400 years in the written literature. It was you are magician -- And -- have a very respected place in the skeptical and ice are supposed within the community that's fair to say because -- because we have a long standing presence and it ended and that the people appreciate. The natural. As a sanity begin to natural connection between -- that while I think the connection is."

" I'm always so obvious and it's something I often have to speak to public speaking engagements about the subject to the question. That arises is why is someone who. Deceived people for a living concerned about people being the seat on the face of it that's. A bit of a conundrum. But the question really speak the answer goes to. Actually a moral issue when it comes right down to -- because when I say the word magician. I say I'm going to fool you over the the world famous conqueror at the turn of the twentieth -- culture means that the Contra is the most that is most oddest of all professionals she first promises to W that he does. And so -- Imus stating that oral contract with the with the sort going to outline view. In a more in a moral -- and so magicians get not all of us but supplements. Get. Uptight not happy when we see the tools of our legitimate. Honest line. Misused by those who would use it to deceive people about how the world works. And that tradition goes back further along as I've mentioned their 400 years ago book was written England called the discovery of witchcraft 1584 -- Which had a little section on magic -- a book about that it was really a book of critical thinking it took a classical blues -- Pakistan. What he was doing was he was the -- was barrister -- was debunking the witch burnings of sexually James meaningless slightly accretive to when James took -- actually ordered. All copies -- Usually the sign a record book but he was say that you don't is effective in the context of his time Scott was even saying quite that witches. Don't exist that might exist but. What about the evidence that's being you I don't think the evidence that would -- sufficiently part of his. Part of his claim was was his case. Was he grizzled chapter on magic tricks if you see how these magic tricks work you'll see that these are certainly not evidence of witchcraft and so this begins. Of this longstanding intersection of critical thinking that he was it abundantly rational mind if you read discovery. It's he -- to get past the old English it's a really contemporary mind it's I would love to have out of how to brew. You know it on that with with with Scott it's really refreshing line to read of course you 250 years later this Harry Houdini at the birth of spiritualism and the birth of a Paris ecology at some alleged signs literally the birth -- it. Aren't ready editor of scientific America often likes to talk about. The history of -- it upside adamant in the early creation of the -- technical research. And who TDs role in a -- early research debunking. Phony spiritual aspect of the balking -- ounces and so on and of course he was debunking physical phenomenon as evidence for the paranormal. A tradition that he continued in the 1970s notably with fury Keller and the like. The book physical phenomenon as evidence for the marital. -- a long history of physicians being involved exactly and you know registered an accent that's right if you know the history it makes sense it's not always obvious at first watch why why that is how that intersection occurs. And act as part of that has to do with deception -- knows all the scientific and academic training in the world. Does not usually include trading interception why why would people like myself have a deep but narrow expertise. That says I don't how to fool people. Recognize what people are being cool. And you know probably what you were in that school you can take a class on perception because there's no such thing as a sneaky of beaver. The Microsoft get together called a leading others like say hey let's -- But -- but he can -- in psychology you know yes yes and about all Americans -- the sense of self deception in particular yes cognitive --"

" Yes exactly I think that's the magic is really just an applied. Understanding of them that how people perceive themselves how to proceedings are certainly isn't neuroscientist. At the the crossover with magic is here."

" Right actress at perception. Act you you often said that -- aren't terrible servers. And understanding what that really means is is part of the skill set that deficiencies every day yet absolutely. But but sometimes. The science scientists academics whatever will think that somehow that education is actually some sort of off lactic against being deceived. But I don't get paid to do magic shows just for the stupid. You know -- I get paid to fool smart people every day."

" Do you agree with Redding -- said that it's actually easier just to -- smart people because you know others going to do about that I as counter intuitive is that -- I think any magician with wooden -- that statement that the and that's because what petition to doing -- To be to be fooled. Is not the same as being for. And what -- petition is doing what any professional deceive or whether to con man or card sheets of for a fraudulent psychic or petition. Is doing is using your intelligence against because we are pattern seeking animals that we make. We jump to conclusions based on experience and most of the time those are good survival skills but sometimes the wrong hands like. -- Those things could be used against you -- you know all right but you do different. Absolutely and it and it keeps you from people users precisely precisely right for the -- and that's -- that is what. Probably initially meet Randy get involved he said some -- aren't sympathetic to skepticism I'm curious did you give some examples of what would they might say about us."

" Oh about us such skepticism and Canada were want to -- white guys talking to each other stamp our feet. That's true but irrelevant Hillary. -- I want to clarify what. Well you know there there is a there is a school of thinking in -- Who likes to -- Magic with its. A cult has to historical underpinnings them part of that I mean tecumseh the confusion of the word magic which has multiple meetings in contemporary English. Whether it's on injury which is a nice producers and unfortunately it's very commonly -- Or whether the halted but. So the fact that something akin to magic might be used by shamans and underpinnings of religion and that that might have actually served a purpose -- it's time. Is something that some additions want to invoke and work you know. You skeptics sometimes operate often operate under the separate into that well we just present the evidence. Well that's that's not true and that's that's just unfortunately that's because what you're you're not really battling the facts -- battling a world view. Your battling -- people determine what is true for themselves. We. Who use the scientific method. As a way to find truth in the realm of detestable claims nine I think I just described our collective world it. But what does somebody else means by evidence. These people the world means something very different that what you --"

" In a cult of personality is. People get their evidence that believe evidence that Mr. President I'm not a doctor but I plane order TV. Or to a PBS special to sell my books. It before we switch off the the topic of magicians is there anything in him magician communities -- the -- will be the -- with ferret out okay. Do you ever like talk to other partitions and say you know you should. Present yourself with that yet yet you have a little called -- a -- of particular I don't wanna name rumba. Criss Angel but yeah he he definitely goes for the the cult following think -- get in my opinion he writes outline of the watts at which was website you want because it's like you know his. As the fans like the the faithful whatever. It I'd just like he he swallows of that mystique in -- media comfortable on the few --"

" I I would disagree with I think that we touched on this that a panel earlier today. At the question is what claims is he making I don't think I've ever seen Chris make any paranormal claims -- work effect I see him. The cry that this claim that our government and as far as -- in -- and that's framework you -- the cult of personality can use that phrase it differently than. That Madonna -- temporary pop. Pop culture star. In the -- you know any any performer. Is. Selling a person now I think that's what. With Chris is doing I I have no problem that I have I have problems with some selling well world. Chris not time authority but -- we'll kind of medical care -- do you do you as a as a magician do you feel compelled to tell other additions were right now line hey you know maybe you shouldn't do that -- you go out there is on going debate with. Regardless of you know face to face confrontation and more importantly it is important to stand that there is. There is aren't going and constant debate in the magic community about these issues. Because there were. There are people on the skeptical side who support the skeptical movement. Openly. Like myself. There are people who are inclined that way but not particularly vocal about it there workers there have a job to do with petitions that they're doing there were people who do the magic community who are. Not only don't belong to the skeptical view artistically but also world view why is -- who actually are believers in the power all that aren't there are plenty of occasions. Who believe the paranormal and therefore strongly disagree. Was by particular point of view so there -- disputes about that that a world you based but there also philosophical disputes especially in the in the in the realm of meant to listen which is the branch of magic that specializes in Eric. Our old mine reading phenomenon -- I don't think I have to remind the audience are not really. Politically after putting together but I think more people haven't. Innate -- physics that they do Paris ecology and that's where it comes to -- it as good as those people should not be coming to my show to learn a."

" Outside. That's a bad idea how to -- that there is a pet on a bad idea is that's a pretty bad idea that. But nevertheless I also acknowledged that people do unfortunately yeah and that's an area where -- more than they do and I think it's my responsibility to speak the truth is finally trying to. Tell people that look I'm gonna create the illusion of my reading. I can't do it nobody else can do it maybe next time you think you see it. You should take about the fact you can tell the difference of I wasn't telling."

" What about the -- Randy on Carson effect is I guess -- loosely refer to it as when he did the site surgery. Performance and an NBC got the phone calls from hundreds of people saying how we get all the psychic surgeon father and danger there. There's always an underlying danger that you can't be responsible for how people interpret the use of misusing information you give them. The only thing you can do is give them the information. I find it fascinating that medalist can do with -- him. Yeah it's it's more fascinating that if there was a son I have magic because the person is actually. Reading body language you know inserting information into the person pulling information -- like doing things I can't."

" meant to lose or reading body. He says that your body would part -- to book is there there's no body language whatsoever involved in metabolism. You know. You add theirs Sama and there's certainly a lot of psychology involved inadequate -- and tell you. That. Sometimes language. Who went well what's."

" For the verdict of over the adequate talk about what's what's true what's accurate. Yet. So it's accurate if I tell you I use hello a lot of psychology work that is absolutely accurate yet. In fact psychology is more important to work some ways. In many ways Dan Dan. Although the mechanical slider and it practice in the world and it's that is true. But that's different than saying. That reading your body language -- what artistic. -- no okay. Well I don't know Bryant but what is the they had here's what here's what they argument occurs you do exactly that on on on a cross hairs of where the argument -- And and there are many many it's become very popular movement. To use those kinds of what musical presentations at the it's a device to make that he's advocating an acoustic. And I I use my don't work I have pieces I put on stage where it appears to be about body like which appears to be about reading people bought. Then I expose at least stripes today you know I can acuity of these things and and neither can anybody else you thought this that was really would be ought to be a congregation."

" Yeah yeah. I like I very -- that's a good teacher. It's logical fight game -- bottle bill and Hillary have everything it on us -- absolutely. Yeah that's as the reading the body language as in the third diversion distraction it's sort of a different yes yes. It's about the team you know at some of the things that that that makes that makes it interesting. And that's -- to a point but isn't it ironic that. I said well one -- tried to tell you my idea was I said you know on the practiced skeptic in critical -- here as and I just launch right into it. To the -- yeah image we got a petition to you don't know that they go to Canada --"

" Actually that's because you saw a convincing demonstration by talented magician who's putting ideas forward that don't seem. Completely farfetched if he said. That that that his ability to float the lady was a paranormal power Ugoh can. Throw up the stage right. But you don't or about physics and -- that you do about the kernel it can ask me think of under linguistic program (%expletive). Completely well I haven't I haven't seen. I haven't seen anything in the way of clinical evidence that that this is anything. In favor you know what I what I see about -- are not -- say that apartment definitive expert on the subject but really what grow everything that passes for evidence. He's a self perpetuating industry right of self referential self perpetuating. Self help industry that created a full. Mechanism. That's that you know. Offers courses in teaching levels training levels of it what state graduate that they treat other people and everybody's making a buck. And it's all about you know supposedly you're looking up to the left if you haven't want kind of -- the right here on the kind of thought. Boy it smells like (%expletive) to me. You know. Ray -- who's here at the -- conference it was on. Select committee many years ago out early days of -- know they found nothing. I don't see that subject being debated much in the actual. Scientific. Medical community I don't I don't see it there right thank you think that -- everything. Going on you know I mean I mean is there any field today that isn't using it FMR lifers slump then if you know. Bracket of it and but I haven't seen the FM RIs and LP where is that."

" Yeah so can you give us the -- a quick example. Of what what people may think could be a real. It's all the."

" The -- Quasi science. Of manipulating other people through the use things from language in gestures and the century -- it --"

" I've but lets him in Witten but let's pause right there -- say that the notion. I like dissipate the conservatives of people -- petitions especially analysts who were big believers and you know. Yet and there's a lot of his middle addition to analyst who made a lot of money repackaging. And selling it to petitions. And -- counter to that my -- lectures to magician my -- say. You know that notion. That -- on ice today. May affect. What people say. Is not an extraordinary claim I think that's pretty much the way like which works you faceoff people hear it click -- about a -- you know what. But NL PC is that these books this -- tapes and videos and everything else ago. Well -- colors of winner on this spectrum mote you'll."

" Yeah. Yeah I -- ice but the Clinton you know against it smells as Japanese guy has insists is -- As fast as deep as I -- I haven't figured out. Where the actual studies and evidences and and it's his pseudo secret the -- great that's how science works it doesn't quite well we're talking about like human behavior -- things like LaDainian example. And -- from Dara brown it brands and magician whose. His brother is the penalty rate -- well. The subject -- this partly partly brought YouTube videos that -- he says claimed to be easy it'll Peta do certainly raised -- in fact he's doing trucks."

" Rival what I say about Darren who's a colleague and actually go up to one of them one of the best TV. Performers in the Batman. World. Over the world I don't think I'm violating. You are confident that by now but it's true. I think that with Daryn. You know. If he set eyes that there's a particular thing that is the mechanism behind what he's doing. That it didn't cross that went off the -- alerts right like there were times when it really rule looks like he's using hypnosis. That she says. But there may be times when it. Looks like something else. It might be if I was excited about okay how that's so. I think you can kind of make that a sort of does what makes a great performer to yeah but again but that's been very influential. On the first with very influential -- this time. And time of using things like. And LP hypnosis body language of psychological -- while all those kinds of mechanisms right to make his work interesting and and compelling. As opposed to thirty years ago what -- psychic claim was that you know idea with a power by Qaeda network thirty years but today people are not support the baker act yet but they will accept. They are more inclined to send the notion. As you were today. Although okay the body language that doesn't seem like such a an attempt carpet I didn't exactly but if you go back -- history of pseudo sciences rightly you don't read the -- on the head. At the time. Considering the framework of our knowledge. Settles claims that in this seems reasonable right you know handwriting analysis I have the first part by ever booked up against Atlantic analysis I was. I was quite young. Is an adolescent that was a relative who suggested and it. And I went. Okay now it seems okay are. Put in capital letters way up above the line go over the -- The army and the was a bad mood it seems you know -- possible but -- comics X is you know I science pretty much sucks the Internet and yes I mean that's why we invent the double blind test. Without that. Let it -- got common sense you're screwed you."

" I took an anecdote about the difference between you know magical sanity and being -- David Blaine. Whose music and I think and I think it's on the supply side presented in. That could have got to close a petition. And these are you tremendously influential yeah in terms. The."

" Influential television Egyptian. Of -- decline in that David had the idea of -- the camera on the audience you as a substitute for credibility because the issue of magic yet to take off your point but the issue of magic always on television. Is what makes it credible yeah right at the distance because the effects of that really not very. Robust when it comes right down at a potential -- all were -- ball worship me that nobody cares. But the care because you're up close and it's real to -- television that this that's right so they've got the idea of treatment of bringing out the street off the State's media off the state and a mystery. With a camera crew point account at the screaming girls on the street at an -- must be really and I am not the result is the result is. The Criss Angel Derek brown -- England yet several Iraqi Army and Japan Holland all these guys you that's how we look that's how we do magic on TV today yeah so where that is and David deserves credit."

" My anecdote that it is rated totally up the point. Is that they -- duster that gray area of trying to me because he's got some powers a little -- and he and as part of his attempt to do that he actually. Involved with some -- certainty yeah and -- just writes like this who incite a conference. And he totally -- completely -- these are served. And it was funny community. Didn't tell me about what was going Christ these things can totally stunt double what clinical well EG stuff and other things and but the one thing that was funny was that the actions of leaders in neurologist and it department. Once and saying that you only the card trick where he will he says tell -- when to stop -- his fingers across the deck of cards that pulls out. The the top half of the debt or 23 cards in this stack. And this can -- does that tell me that this performance that he did it. You can visit while he's in in bed you know spoke ED's. Okay it went. And -- it was too hard brick yeah I'll suggest that let's go to AP. So they they -- images of the I was using. Extreme physical talent laden trip recently and -- with a neurologist that to me with his fingers are so sensitive he can feel that they are 23 cards in. To it's a trickle. Our. Attitude electric if they want cards shorter than you Gore's Florida -- it's okay that's probably not the basketball in this debt that's one way to do of them yeah sure it's not his super sensitive -- and his fingers are rightly or."

" Yeah and that's that's a damn shame but that's not at the same thing happens. It happened spiritualism -- the mid nineteenth century with that with that profit scientist -- it only crooks from alliant. And it happened that and in 1970s with -- and so forth. Up and again I come back that issue this has been the message of -- all -- has been. For as long as Paris -- has been around going science. It's it's a science without one. Applicable aromatic experiment. -- someone uses 150 years later so we use the sports science. Overly -- but okay you know 150 years of -- science you know Harry -- was there. James Randi is here saying. You can have all that experts the world you need a magician just in case somebody might be fool you. As you would not gonna go. Well thank you -- put that show thanks -- much -- really like the -- look forward to the next time thank day thank you."

" Each week I come up with these -- you guys were -- to feel then went to. I challenge my analyst skeptics to sniff out the thing. We're ready for this week yes yes diesels are still smarting from your whopping last week I -- at."

" Senator remember it."

" Here we go item number one and new study shows that women tend to be more tentative and uncertain of their social interactions than -- I and number two recent study finds that -- lost people really do walk in circles. And -- and number three recent evidence shows that obese people have 8% less brain tissue than those of normal weight having -- first."

" Women tend to be more tentative. And uncertain and their social interactions than men in town on the surface I think you think that that might be the case but they you know these studies that always come -- Often shows the opposite. So I'll say that one's. I don't know what that is a move on and then the recent study finds when lost people do walk in circles now. I know there -- some does have some -- like if you are walking you are lost. I think be based on if you're right hander -- left hand you have a stronger push off with one leg the other intensity you know if you walk that far enough you'll start to like arc. If you don't exactly -- have a direction that -- Something that year paying attention to keep you on a straight line he will start to curve in certain -- though. I think that once correct. And then. More evidence more recent evidence showing obese people up 8% less brain tissue. Then those of normal -- what the heck is the correlation there between. Obese people and less brain tissue. -- to take a stab at either the one intending to be more tentative. I'll say that that one as fiction that women tend to be more tentative and uncertain and social actions then men. Okay -- okay."

" New study shows that women tend to be more tentative and uncertain in their social interactions and man. Right off the -- I would disagree with that just from my yeah my own experience I don't normally see that. A recent study finds that went lost people really do walk in circles. That does make a lot of sense I especially I immediately think if they're walking one and earned a city's situation and in its third loss. They're looking for something psychic I can potentially see them walking in circles around an area of final -- looking for that makes a lot of sense to me. At a recent evidence shows that obese people had 8% less brain tissue than those of normal weight. 8% seems like a lot in -- and imagine that that loss of brain tissue is the result of shrinkage. Of the bring. Maybe there's a correlation between overweight people and and you know lack of exercise. In import diet. So that's actually saying that that people are down -- that had a -- yes and one X very extreme point of putting I mean."

" I don't know about that university. -- this I know that the first one is fiction just from my personal experience -- go with that and respect. -- McCain well I don't think that. That spring to you -- you're. If I can -- that's unbelievable honor of her. Lifetime someone who's at peace. -- he can cause a lot of health issues."

" So it could you know media as you age reduce your brain tissue. And lead to early alzheimer's and think that. That certainly does make sense and to."

" Yes people do walk in circles. I'm sure that him because I'm not this year. I've done it if you here's some of Washington circles -- if I wanted circle. Now I the bad that's because one of my legs -- shorter than other. And I'm kidding I'm. That's actually probably is yeah -- one -- my -- a little bitch so I'm I'm -- agree with the group and say that."

" Women do not tend to be more tentative and uncertain and social interactions and then intact. I think women tend to be more. Outgoing while men tend to use the more than lunar space sure. I am --"

" IPods go to each one DO walking in circles. In -- I've kind of known for years I thought that that if you don't have a landmark that's the key you don't have a landmark and just you walking like. In -- white out snow storm. You we will walk in circles and I think it's -- to asymmetry in the gate in late ninety settled down. I thought well it is and let's hope -- de La. -- The other two -- are tougher going back and forth back and forth. 8% as brain tissue. It my initial reaction was that you took a break a very news item and twisted -- Steve. -- this. But. There there could be some reasons I casino obesity could affect brain's sides so that -- kind of make sense. The first one -- even the first one I don't have a good read on what could it depends. But I think I think Coco with the crowd on this one and and and stated the -- answered interactions -- It's apparent."

" So you all seem most certain about number two recent study finds that -- lost people really do walk in circles. And regarding that one you wore all wrong. Although it is sides now have her back at Africa as well but yeah do. It is true -- circles although. Not because when lakes or the other and not because you pressure off more with one leg. Now because we'll only get stronger than the -- it has nothing you do with an intrinsic physical difference in the person himself. In terms of you know favoring one side or the other. What these researchers did was they had people walk. Try to walk a straight line while blindfolded or they actually had them walking in -- desert environment -- basically it's a monotonous environment. -- there are no distant land marks you can focus. If this side of the moon -- that was enough to help them. Keep in -- roughly straight line but without the sun the moon as a guide again or any distant landmark they tended to walk in circles. Some very very short circles like within twenty meters like really short. But that's with the blindfolded through blindfolded they would use in trying to walk straight lines and it -- locked in pretty short circles however. The same individuals who would walk in pretty much. Would make of at random left or right and -- circle right to there was no point in individual person wouldn't always walked through laughter always walked the right. Sometimes it would circled left sometimes it would circled that right so that. Sometimes they do the hokey pokey yeah I think this is that it had to rule out any intrinsic savoring of one side -- the other. And I think it just has to do with the fact that it's. You your."

" Trying to navigating your head and try to hold a straight line -- you know you're you're making you'd probably a drunk and walk and a -- It's you know at random it's gonna you know did depending on what Q you're listening to -- if there's anything by -- your sense of direction. At that particular moment -- eighteen it'll be you'll be more in one direction -- any other. When used to -- was made sense because when you think about it not walking in circles means you're walking. The exact average either -- a perfectly straight line. Or you're deviations to one side or the other are exactly averaging -- well you can't -- meandering around it kind of not really."

" Yeah I mean it doesn't necessarily mean bad like he could. It to make a circle that's small enough to be noticed by researchers. In the time it takes to do this study I think that is a bit surprised and you know I can't."

" the noisy line. When they're but the venue if it's you're still Wendy's saying that it's averaging out. Into ignored if you never to cross back across your trail let's say you're making a perfect circle. Witnessing when you make -- with with -- anybody make walking a circle is that you cross back. Across your your -- hosted those tremors are pretty wide open because you get that sure eventually."

" Right but it. I don't I don't know really I mean I feel like I would I would of -- I was surprised by the result because I would've thought that it would have taken longer a much greater distance before you would eventually crossed back over."

" Let's go onto number three recent evidence shows that obese people had 8% was free -- those of normal weight that you guys also that was science. And that one is sites. Yeah we all want weird things ourselves -- And this was based on. A survey of older adults looking at their their brain volumes. Andy define a correlation between. -- mind these -- the body mass index. Those in the obese range and reduce. Brain volume so what caused it. In the frontal and temporal -- so wasn't all the over the -- it was actually more in the front of a couple of who it's -- that this was really just see a united anatomical studies not really looking out the cause. So they didn't comment on that specifically but. Being obese is a risk factor is a -- independent respect for cardiovascular disease diabetes hypertension and those things Balkan plausibly effect. The health of the brain. So what what I think needs to be answered now is is obesity an independent risk factor for degenerative changes in the brain. War is it just -- correlating with a lot of other negative health outcomes that are caused by the obesity rate. When all this means is -- new study shows that women tend to be more tentative and uncertain in their social interactions that -- is. Is completely -- a falsehood there is stereotype. That men tend to be more direct won't women tend to -- more tentative have you met Rebecca -- the Rebecca would then of course being the exception however. When the -- so social logical researchers stated. Is they examined men and women and they had then and communicate through email. To a person that they were told was a another male or they were told was a female. And about a topic. That was either guy centric view of female centric war gender neutral so for example they could've told -- guy. To offer some opinion about buying make up to a girl. So -- situation which he was likely to assume that the person was talking to -- much more comfort and knowledge about the topic and heated. That think I would tend to be more tentative in there -- statements and the operational. Definition used was. Did you use any weasel words to use any qualifications like me be your I don't know war. Were you did you qualify with a question at the end ninety is that right what you think. We're just make a flat statement that what you think. So guys tended to be more tentative when talking about topics that were more female centric to women. And then. Somewhat to about female centric topics to men. Same -- with with women to implement and be more tentative talking about cars or whatever tune to guys. Someone at two other women and then. We've talked about but girl's talking about girl topics -- guys and America topics they were not tentative at all. Or if they were talking about gender neutral topics they were not that it either. So that the bottom line of all this is that the the degree of tentativeness that seem to to to do with the comfort with the topic. And who you're talking with you think that you're talking to appears to be -- likely to be to know more about we've talked about -- you do. Rather than the sex of the person -- and it didn't seem there was no difference between men and women in terms of their tentativeness. We'll congratulate and their."

" Review your short leg bothered him back we're gonna call you meet leg -- an eagle eating. It'll she -- she could still probably I love it. So I've been a get a solid state and who's -- Yeah yeah let's take a listen at last week's news that north."

" what what's that. That law it's. A sonic boom. We only that but yes it was I got that off the NASA website it's far away often necessary the masses say. Then in the NASA NASA. From NASA's website yeah that was at kind of like that you know that particular one with the first meeting in the backgrounds of the you know you have this you definitely on the ground. You know amongst the the animals -- stuff and wave wing and then wherever sphere. You know there's this -- going -- whatever about bus the sound very. You know that's so cool and never got a lot of people organize at -- cards -- our tabloid a lot of people want a message board said that thought it was a brand jet. Given you know there was but one person who -- breaking the sound better first and correctly. Com although they thought it was a super stock car. Britain's number but I'm gonna give it to them because they were first want to mention break in the sound barriers that technically their correct. And that was -- Willey with -- Do you know what was breaking this -- period of entries that aren't. Yeah was a it was a jet a I don't recall the exact complaint not a slam jet -- in particular just -- jet. And we'll have a winning conference this week -- This week we've got another. Out of voice but a noisy -- dissect and now listen closely. Because it's. Going to be. Hard today I think the term in this one --"

" It's. A week. There. But it's. It. It's."

" That that is definitely somebody who forgot to turn their phone off in their purse. To get. Are someone who sat on their Blackberry and called someone I didn't realize that you know I wouldn't even know where to start with that one it's not like everybody. And I -- folks don't forget sending your recordings of who's that noisy so weakened get more than integrated into the show it's a lot of fun. What's a quote for this -- Steve quote. This quote was sent in by a listener named mark Hayden Hayden. And it's from none other than Galileo appropriate. In questions of science the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."

" Don't they don't get all three."

" That is a very appropriate quote ago. Well thanks for joining me get this week everyone -- with these. Thank you and until next week that's -- you -- skeptics guide to the universe."

" Discuss discuss the universe is produced by the -- little skeptical society. In association with the James Randi educational foundation is -- or more information on this and other episodes. Please visit our website at www. That's -- its -- dot org for questions suggestions and other feedback. Please use to contact us form part of the website war send an email to info at the skeptics guide Dutch court -- If you took this episode that please help us spread the word I voted for aside dig. Leaving just review on iTunes you can find links to these sites and others to our home page. Appearance is produced by Kyoto and he's used with permission."

" Okay."