Title: Skeptics Guide #215 - Sep 1 2009

" You're listening to the skeptics guide to give you give us your escape. -- reality."

" Hello and welcome to the skeptics guide to the universe today is Tuesday September 1 2000 -- And this is your host Stephen Novella. Joining me this week about -- Everybody Rebecca Watson because of her husband -- Bernstein. Acknowledged days well our Russian friends and acknowledged day wasn't aware that."

" I wish we celebrated knowledge today."

" The first of September -- out how to holidays question but it recognizes. Beginning of this game."

" I set -- marks I didn't yeah."

" They want exciting yeah live for excitement. All right so here's exciting in 1914. On our first I in 1914. In the passenger pigeon. Became extinct as the last surviving -- of the colorful native American species of that's so exciting that satellite at the Cincinnati. So exciting world the burdening its so. Hang on but here's one for you here is -- here 1997. September 1 the discovery of a new sub atomic particle was announced called the exotic Mannesmann. -- Operative may it may sound but exotic ones and scientists speculated the exotic mess -- may son might comprised pork pork. Unlike other particles that had three."

" Fraudulent zillions of metallic particles PolyOne discovered an everyday to that often but there's too many that it would ever have you discovered ones he -- down. But he got a better than the evidence three items although once how he's percent of total loans you know. Other knowledge they had knowledge day and diets knowledge. -- can only doing one task at a time. Well a cut back to one for next week the first news -- we're gonna talk about is actually multitasking. And the fact that people can't do it as if -- say play it once. -- it and yet the -- A so -- but it."

" In our increasingly technological society blurred you know talking on her cellphone while other texting while they're reading their email while they're walking down the street. Missing to and I -- whatever and it turns out people really can't do that very well. In fact. People who ten to ten multitask more and think they're good at it. Were actually far more impaired by a multitasking the people who thought they weren't good at it intended not to do it. This is it was a result of the Stanford University study. How which is very interesting. So they're dead leaves the question of -- why did it's it makes sense of people are better at multitasking. -- understand -- the neurology behind it we really only have one sort of fuel conscious that we can follow. I'm you can diffuse your attention you know or you can. You switch back and forth among things that you really can't do a group would David did on that one episode where."

" Yeah -- with the symphony him. Absorbing a book at the same time doing a mathematical equation and you can see now what -- that girl when he was kissing his his girlfriend who's thinking about what -- does -- matter. Yeah and she was happy that she was in their somewhere right at -- regardless so anyway you're saying we're not like a fictional robot that's. I'm an android and Girardi theft -- met a girl like toaster -- CB Kia ranked fifth. This is exactly why people talk on cell phones when they're driving at a higher rate of accidents because you can't patent dispute the conversation and to the road. So that as the same it just last week that growth told me with a straight face that she is confident in her ability to text while dried beans and then it's even terrifies me that followed her confidence means that two decades ever added that somebody who is let's -- I couldn't I didn't think I could be more terrified that I was when she first told me that now texting while driving don't do it. Received does that also mean that. Just talking to your friend next to you in the car it's also appears to have --"

" Yeah -- does the the question is why doesn't it -- you as much and -- there are two speculations one is that while they do. I distract your attention they're also another set of buys so they may not lead to -- something in there to him look out you know so. I think they might compensate a little bit of that but also. It may take more focus to talk to somebody on the phone division elected visual feedback of somebody talking to them person --"

" Yeah easier to sit next to someone in silence than it does is sit on the phone in silent so if there's a long pause you wouldn't."

" Wary about it. And it's not perfectly clear signal there's audio delay you're trying to concentrate on what you know through the static sometimes as to what the words are that -- spank it does take more effort. And yeah a lot of times you're holding your actually holding -- cell --"

" Well sad that there always true although that's the reason for -- at the hands free laws in some states. However the data really shows it doesn't help that much that is not the fact the one hand is holding the phone -- you're paying attention to the conversation. And that even with the hands free it's really just a bad. Burkett is bad that even a little bit better. And while -- may be a little bit better but it is bad enough that you it is significantly impairing the significant component is. The the concentrating on the car on the conversation not one hand is occupied -- in the -- What they -- there was a got to they got to turn the person that's on the other end of the line. And make him into holograms sitting next to you meant to be of the state. A little children for they have to be able to see him through the holograms well yes that's before you could just cut it out you could just have. Collision detection in the cards you know some AI. That the car itself will be paying attention week."

" Just stop talking on the -- and fellow lawyer dried beans well not crazy I'm not gonna happen just like -- Akamai and I'm sorry that riding my bike around doubt if I nearly eight if I don't nearly decreed by somebody in an -- talk there's open every day. Then it's -- good day. A rare day at. The bottom line here is do not multitask do not walk and chew gum at the board member at -- stance it. It was watching TV eating and having sex the same time put -- wow suffers when you when you try to do that a I'm at a disadvantage that the Atlanta may go as you like Tesco and I could -- to your your in my former you're gonna suffering in Arizona. You're TV watching of the way off I -- totally of -- I don't lost. So we do have an update on the methane. On heightened. That is -- it about it now has really. The smelly."

" So if you remember the saturn's largest moon tight and very interesting. -- that it has. -- an atmosphere and has leaks on its surface the question is with these lakes composed of liquid and things. Where methane army -- Yeah army thing about it and you and and this is more than a -- more than just passing interest because of methane. Is a lot more interesting because. At that at those temperatures methane actually might exist in eight. Liquid as of vapor and as an -- can go to all three faces just light water on earth whereas. -- Thain would be more stable when it was turned into liquid form so methane -- would you you could. Conceive that methane might be a little bit more predispose to some kind of exotic life forms evolving aren't saying if it's even possible with dates they put they didn't know if these leaks aren't -- titan were at Dana methane however. They've discovered now. Fog. Add the I believe it's to South Pole of tight now fog. Or is probably methane clouds fog means that those lakes are methane because I think wouldn't turn into -- so it's one more bit of information that we can infer from that this is probably. Methane existing and all three phases aren't paying which is really interesting and it's it's fascinating to think of -- mood like tight in the world. Where there is some other material in this case -- That fills the same niche that water does on the earth -- methane in collecting into lakes and evaporating into Prague interest."

" I doubt I don't think methane is can really hold a candle to water and all. But the weird -- characteristics. Yeah I prefer Waterman south we have I was recently reading an article saying that there's something like a hundred different. Anomalous characteristics about water that are just kind of bizarre that very few other compounds molecules. Hat. And of course it one of these having words a special so so. A crucial to life in everything but there's so many different aspects to. I don't think you can compare to water --"

" Good thing is that stamp called on titan. You wonder if it's give it to be just warm enough. Four. In chemical reactions to occur and sufficiently. To spur something like life to be sustainable over to dispute really slow with the life. That existed yet slow motion bacteria. Experience -- existence yeah -- had you have basically via a 100000 times slower. Metabolic lead and like and how cold as it's called enough for -- to be illiquid negative 179 degrees Celsius. Our 94 count as you said damp cold -- for help. Tight as one of the one of the moons in our solar system that's on the shortlist of like the most -- places he wanted to visit I think your rope but is the other one. And Enceladus. Is probably the third one user. Well Europa and Enceladus maniac Enceladus may actually have liquid water in them that would make them much more interest and titans still is is on the -- that. I'm have you guys seen the recent picture of the Loch Ness Monster in."

" Me and lucky to have. -- now have a but he's seen it. It's pretty impressive I saw one analyst Adam pretty underwhelmed maybe you guys sort of one -- what I saw looked more like pieces. Then deficit on. Right exactly. Hard -- thousand squid are giant green buildings and embassies I'd prefer. It all our -- like the wake of the -- I think they're exact dates are kind of weird way that's debt debt that's what that's as well my thoughts as well. And one thing I could understand was that somebody would say Jason cook told the sun. He said I couldn't believe it it's just like that description of Nancy -- what descriptions have you been reading you have I think. Yeah that's whatever you wanted to be. Could I don't quite a -- tactical stray bullet that the image is they -- image of nests in generous when the -- is sort. These incidents violet light up chunky body a little flippers and -- skinny."

" Right analog out but -- a stumbling a -- is sort of the click the squid but did the image itself is as we don't elongated white blob with. Two pairs. Of tentacles. -- actually five writes a mechanic to coming out to besides the one going straight back but those can easily Beckett the elongated -- could easily be a blow. It in the pairs of of white lines coming out the sides and in the one go to the fact it could be that way right."

" And if you click around and look at other places -- to lose the other messy yeah."

" Exactly and they think that looks like the you know way. Oh yeah guided the whole -- This what is in an -- example. While we always said there had to be a population amnesties for -- to exist. -- regret that this guy yeah it's obvious it is sustainable population of benefits."

" But we are -- we are seeing here is a new phenomenon of Google monsters rightward toward Google paranormal phenomena people looking on Google Earth. And satellite images let's it was Atlanta hello Atlanta at this yeah that's rats they I think just. I got better and better when Google pared -- earlier concurrent Google they're really cool -- that's very got a Google -- we're gonna have coined that term. Outlook quick news I've never again do few emails. Recent study very nice I like the when -- that is an outlook yet. The evolution of my race. Induce and these -- Indians. Out west -- these are deer mice deer mice are normally very dark. Affirmed because they are camouflaged for the dark soil that -- that they tend to live in Iran. But to several thousand years ago in the press that DC Indians came to exist in this one area of Nebraska. And the course of sand colored and it is the deer mice -- there. Evolved they sandy color to the blonde who's looking far in order to be better camouflage in that environment. So this created the opportunity -- to find out well what's the mutation that resulted in the change in the fur collar and when did it happen. What they discovered was that you GO logically this Indians have been around ready to 15000 years. It'll leave off 4000 years ago this population of -- had a mutation. Mean I specific gene gene that they named a dowdy eight GO UT. And use it to the single deletion mutation in the Garrity team which which resulted in the change in the color from from our. Like dark brown to -- late sandy color and then. After that mutation it's -- the current crop up off what does musical at rapidly spread to the population -- predominates. So they also did some studies and found that the -- mice with a neat. Light colored fur -- about. Eight point 5% survival advantage over the Hartford mice. Which it doesn't sound like a lot. Adds up but it adds up bright day given a couple thousand years you know and and that -- even in my eyes are pretty short generation time. And since then that thirteen predominance of what to say is. Is an excellent example. Of yeah. The occurrence of of the spontaneous occurrence of a favorable indication that there was selected for and print dominated in the population. In the very recent. Something that creations they can't happen or that doesn't happen. And there it is -- is really nice documented case I think this is gonna become a really a real classic example. Mutation and selection and natural selection. And one of the nice things about this is that there's no real human element you know I -- over the peppered -- Which they -- a classic example but -- always says well yeah but these selective pressure was provided by the game by industrialization. In news that artists how I know it's completely irrelevant it's completely irrelevant but that's what they sent. So here now as an example of of you know with the environmental change is not man made it was nine industrialization it was purely. Just in changing. Interception geological process. -- also recently have. Blizzards that are showing in obvious change. In accordance with their environments on an island that's almost out west on the Steve adapted to fire -- to the presence of tyrants -- does the United States -- firings of America I think an invasive species in his one species of lizard. Evolved. The ability to -- actually be tainted juvenile characteristic of shaking off stance. Yeah it's actually -- killed Munich and that is asked and and and kill them so company that -- the difference there is that that was. The predominance. Of the -- seventeen variety that already existed in the population. Which is -- it's those shows that you population genetics it gene the gene frequencies will shift back and formatting can change dramatically. Based upon selective pressures that proves natural selection but it doesn't show the random. Occurrence of a mutation that provides in new. Mutation that is favorable to that environments and so it's this still has one element that bad example dismissing. The same thing yeah yeah I think you're thinking of the yet another example was the the lizards which is on our on the islands in the Pacific. That word I think move from one island to another. Fifty yards. Yes fifty years ago and then they adapted to the insects are included in in on the new island rightly that specific it's our hands. But again were not yet sure if that was simply selecting a form for varieties that -- sorority president. War worried him he's involved in new mutations. And the beauty here is that weakened showed genetically. This is a new mutation cropped up at random. And there you go up this is I think probably closest yet of the other evidence -- is actually more thorough and more elegant which don't show the same thing. Is the E. Coli evidence remember that. The researcher Richard -- documented hundreds of thousands of generations of Nicole landing actually developed three separate beat Haitians that ended up together to the ability to use a tree as a new food source so again on those in the lab as our official selection but still very very very elegant demonstration so all the pieces are there you know creatures that have no evidence for natural selection nor. Mutations can only be harmful it's all BS the F there's multiple lines of evidence we have now. All the different pieces necessary for for natural selection to a car. So add that to your list of iconic examples of evolution the government very we gonna do a couple emails before -- go on to our interview. The first email comes from animal Waller. From Aiken South Carolina -- I recently came across an article that talked about the possible usefulness of the human appendix. I always thought it was taught that the appendix had no real purpose and was just left over. Could you please talk about this and the implications that the study capacity evolution creation debate. The study was in the journal of evolutionary biology thanks for all you do as a recovering southern Baptist and and you skeptic friendly podcast very useful might skeptical -- Well thanks out of."

" Adam you're correct obviously the but the appendix -- for years people thought that it was a missed -- you needed to work in McDowell the past few years. On the on the scientific journals accredited arguing that. The appendix probably does have defined role it's funny the first time you know you you know the appendix -- you hear about it we never really see it. You know what it looks like it where exact it is in our -- the first -- saw what appendix exactly exactly what it look like I -- son trusted zombie in my heart and house. -- scare the crap out of people and -- innards -- online yes Santa Barbara an extra fact I bought this anatomically precise. Human intestine which really nice it was beautifully beautifully made and tested gas scare people like those kind of details. I don't I can I can appreciate -- I mean. Now -- they couldn't they don't care and can. Karen all that it was accurate but I like because that's what the sort of basic and out and that went to the description of it where opponents like yet it's in a company precise and this is. And it even has the idea panic so I was my first experience actually seeing exactly what this thing is it's it is it's a little worm like projection that sticks out of the big contestant. Right right when it turns into the small intestine. It you might have heard -- referred to -- for -- reform appendix for reform just be -- warm light arms that's what is it looks like it's really tiny. And and like I said the prevailing thought -- cheese for generations outset this is it's useless it's --"

" Now about my first X button that the first time I saw what independents looked like -- had my head in an actual corpse. Why was your whole head -- go -- yeah you're doing their rounds he's -- you have to see you really close you know. Stuff you know that's what it definitely that's smell terrible article -- to -- for a year and he didn't. Year. -- now for a year and a -- that's the type of fall and winter comes to map out a crowd idea Bob I."

" IC you have to take at that it issues though look at what you say and because your. Equating invested -- with useless which from. What I've been reading particular about the study and and what I've previously read about the idea if that's --"

" Organs and yeah."

" Is not that -- useless but that they've lost their original use and there's this idea that you know."

" Biology is very adaptable. Life is adaptable and will."

" Make use -- even the seemingly useless and so. The idea that the appendix is. Tacit deal or again. Can then be true as well as it being true that it might. Have a function and understand circumstances that can be used in a way that it wasn't originally. Adapted."

" For awhile I I know that that is that that's a separate concept and evolution but the -- that had a separate. Specific term. Co opting or what what's his lawyer has not visiting -- Rebecca is absolutely right misty -- does not require useless this. That's that's the key issue here. But it does mean you've lost the primary function for which -- structure exists and it's -- Foreman its form is also will be degraded to some degree because it's not being news. As it was pre final generic and I passed but there could be some residual or secondary functions that it's undergoing a -- even some new function. -- and still beat is still considered essential out yet but would you talk today about -- when one went one structure or protein or whatever his co opted. For another primary function and and adapt to that primary function. Okay writes a slightly different no longer listed she'll -- both Michael and ostriches wings -- are clearly that of the week meanest of them is distinctly right I -- it doesn't mean that it that they are useless that they don't use them for display or something else. They just don't use them for flying okay."

" penguin would be an even. More apt example in it's very useful to have it have wings in the water for at TVs it's."

" They're -- possession I would say that they've had penguins wings are more Soviet being co opted for swimming whereas the the -- wings are really more for state juvenile really have a primary function. Many more but that could be a -- like a subtle write fiction may -- of a threat display her. Hands and it's pretty impressive when those wings open up the -- and you're -- by -- other structures like the eyes of -- salamanders. Which are a 100% -- to lose the right. Blobs of flesh that served no function anymore anyway back to the appendix. But regardless of its subtle distinctions of the term as digital. But it was all it was always kind of the common wisdom that -- was truly -- was kind -- everybody thought right that it was in the appendix really didn't do squat I don't know if that's literally true though I think at that may be that are you understand and I don't know that. I have to look that up of scientists actually at some point of this is perhaps I know Darwin thought it was useless let's let's say that tolerance like it was no use -- you can't he apps."

" Yes yes yes it. But well at least for me and my cloak and understanding of constituent. Going to be appendix was the poster boy of the threat organs there's even a famous quote from by the book the birth of her body it's. Which it was said it's major importance what appeared to be financial support and surgical profession. Which is referring to the 300000. Predicted he's performed in the United States at least a year 2000. So why that was kind of prevailing opinion of a lot of people but out into the meat of this a recent. It's as Steve said a recent article in the journal of -- listeners morality stated quote apparent function of the million sequel appendix. As a safe house for symbiotic got microbes. Preserving the floor during times of gastrointestinal infection. It's society's without modern medicine to what these artists are proposing then is that some of the good bacteria -- in your gut that's what we -- that's. It hangs out in the appendix kind of like families in an underground bunker. If you're normal gut bacteria and get nuked by diarrhea or stomach bug is protected bacteria would then emerge -- could -- be popularly. To help help us with the digestion and bolster or immunities and these -- they that the -- As a primary function. That's pretty much dead dead dead meat of what they what they're talking about here and they also ball produce some new findings had to bolster the theory. They say that the appendix is or is it and disease. I've been around for eighty million years. How does a lot longer than they thought arm and also that it evolved in two separate occasions want to mammals and also in -- marsupials that kind of it's it's more evidence to make you think that and maybe you know that there is some function here. Although don't."

" And those conclusions are about being criticized. So PC buyers actually -- about this in two separate it's one in which he outlast the the way that this study was. Kind of sold to the public as Darwin is wrong -- which you it was completely ridiculous and basically is to sum it up."

" Darwin were included a one paragraph in origin of species has said that --"

" And we with one sentence that says that he thinks the appendix is -- like you know what -- is dead and he was wrong about a lot of stuff to get a and that's not the messages in part of this study obviously. And then he read. Nice long post in which he. Very critical of a number of points including the idea is that the fact that this -- been around for eighty million years means that. It it was necessarily evolved for that that's specific function. He points out that it's possible that. It was C a side effect of the way that. The intestines. Sort of connected I think I might be saying the strongest thing that is yet it's just it just happened to be there and it's it the appendix turned out to be. What he says is mostly harmless thing that got passed along was mostly -- and they could be a detriment some species and so was phased out so he points out that. This research. Does make an argument."

" For some of those things -- it's not by any means conclusive."

" Right depends on whether or not you -- you think that. Species that don't have it but don't have it because their ancestors didn't have -- or because they lost because it was selected against. Right right or does every species to have it did to -- to they share a common ancestor. Who had it with this -- is in between having lost it or to date independently -- it it may be one of those fees it's easy to evolve. And so will crop up multiple times so there are multiple -- genetic interpretations but this paper really did a good job it was laying out the history the file its genetic history. Of the appendix all in one location but a but of course that ended the key point -- decreased this abuse of this evidence is death. They're saying that this is sort of evidence against evolution but the but the problem is this evidence is based upon a -- static analysis trainer evolutionary relationship."

" Without evolution none of this actually matters yet he thinks you can't say you know yet finalized and proves that there is a -- Right you can't that's inherent contradiction you can't invoke this evidence to prove that evolution didn't happen an extra cents."

" Yet at the two which I thought that they were attacked and first off I thought that it's really have no substantive impact on on that and the evolution creation debate it's just a minor. A minor point ultimately but the obvious one would be that you know -- look evolution was wrong you know -- evolution is wrong I mean you know a big one little. Correction an evolution. They'll they'll kind of point to the fact all of you know obviously get all of evolution is brought haven't they try to sweep it'll writes them added a second I could see them attacking it Garmin himself. Her for being wrong. That's that's another possibility that I think."

" Let it it's up to the possibility though and it's not the creation yes I think the problem here is. With the sciences and the guys who published the data and then those two. Publicize that data went with the story of Garland is wrong if if they had just presented their data without trying to drum up media a media is (%expletive) storm right."

" I mean except the only reason why you would ever threw that in there you know like it's -- drop it this has nothing to do with their research yet there's I was."

" Darn -- Darwin conception of evolution is a 150 years old. He got a lot of things right he -- tremendous advances and understanding of new York new species but he got a ton of stuff wrong because. We have -- right lots of information that he did not have I do we we've progressed a 150 years. Synapse Darwin but he did did really cheap shot and is who it is achieved grab -- headlines. To say -- our researcher in which we discover some new wrinkle -- elemental evolution -- some specific aspect of it proved that Harvard was wrong you know."

" and they haven't they haven't discovered any thing that upsets."

" You know the idea our our idea of evolution all they've they've done is added more information tune -- we know that evolution the worst they've."

" Things all of this was the new scientist article from about I think a year ago now well about the fact that there's horizontal -- genetic transfer. It's like one species through you know viral inclusion or other brother mechanisms can pass genetic material horizontally to other species. -- wins little hand drawn diagram of you once the speed to. One species splits into their forever separate is not literally true because there are some exceptions to that. Especially in like the the bacterial level and even and even with others who are more complex species -- could -- to -- horizontal transfer. But that's just deepens our understanding of the complexity of evolution and all of its you know various aspects of design anyway violate. The basic principles of evolution. But the new scientist called -- blaring headlines Darwin was wrong you know about the dream -- sensation it's it's ridiculous. And all it is is just is it's a completely unnecessary fodder for the creation."

" Yet it's just that that poor salesmen."

" Tat -- I -- that's the only reason why we're even discuss seen this study's impact on the creation evolution debate."

" It's like every time we discovering new particle because they Einstein was wrong hey I got the part where I come up at a I'm woman -- a quick email and limiting what Torre to viewed as -- Scott -- linger from Le Grande Oregon adherence. Found this on the web and had to let it also kind of makes me mad at Levy if you could do Shirley disclaimer on the show keep up the network. And then he links to deep pocket paint doctor this is an iPhone app interestingly engadget reviewed this as a crap app that's. This news. Read it is crap so. There's holy crap into blue wade and the red wave apps. One TD -- dollar -- one fills the screen with a blue light and the with a one red light. And that's it now the blue light is supposed to relieve seasonal depression fatigue and anxiety. Well the wrestler he treats. This for the temporary relief of muscle and joint pain. You know plan I've get a freeze Dolly's hair that's the case and this is a coloring conceit is that precise -- thing it's crap. The blue one is based upon research -- seasonal affective disorder and there is a -- like a lot of things -- sliver of truth to it and that there is research showing that in certain frequencies of light probably -- activate. You know visual pathways and that may be implicated in the absence of that on the this means that a little iPods screen is gonna have any effect. And there's certainly no clinical data showing that that there is any benefit that this kind of escalated treatment that's absolutely like -- puppy wallpaper."

" Her on your iPhone that will cheer you up a lot that are."

" But the red wave one is even worse because what they've linked to to support their claims. His studies showing that infrared laser therapy. Is you basically because it's heating you know the soft tissue can relieve joint and muscle pain right. That day and other equating you see some guy holding up -- iPhone to his elbow with a red light shining on his elbow -- sorry -- but the stunning infrared lasers coming out of your --"

" A a I think it's safe to assume that the iPhone are producing coherent like. Unbelievable. But I'm sure some people will be using and think that it works you know and placebo effect now that the we need a crap detector wrapped. Hey where's GA j.'s not here dusting off because he's dusting -- in the battle over the the local quiet and are looking looking for the last around the hiking through the doubts. He's he's search for the clock that's warrants. And her cut at at -- stupid club I thought you I thought he was on Skype with us we just had -- and the no no he's taking that volume class. Of that mime podcasting. You're gonna -- Chad hey keep it up you're a little tiny box that get it. At at and yet it's windy yes with. Yet now he's driving your car now he's telling us that we should go on with --"

" Always sitting here at ten seconds. -- And death by coincidence we role -- a wedding party this morning we were an impromptu wedding party I was honored to be asked to be the -- the ring bearer -- that was announced that it secret Erika Watson says he has partnered on a podcast that I think that was the first podcast. Maybe I don't know plausibly we're gonna have to have to Wikipedia that you don't you know who's gonna cross check the -- has absolutely I didn't feel it becomes more. Do. I. I I I'm a sucker for a good wedding Randy didn't believe it but I said I got little misty and I did a great treat various district did that happen it's very it's. It's that lets a lovely it's a lovely virtual. Those cool. It's -- to say in the in the last year I've gotten my two daughters into the -- which was always Michael and so acute economic secure old girl light up in the -- c'mon I love that have been -- you can. And I thought they just let your show. How do you appeal to a secure world. And also to a 44 year old and it all works were not works with cause were not trying yet I mean it's."

" It's. You know there was we were just talking in the panel apparent to him about this about you know how how do you reach out -- the kits and made -- very salient point if you try your insulting them. And you violating the trust that put it. There's that. Ralph Waldo Emerson says self reliance that to note that when it's true in your secret part is true for -- that is genius and I take that means that if you do this thing that your interest today and it carries. When it's good in when your honest about it a universal truth and under the strange things about -- Jamie having meets your training I I've wanted to be up front of the camera I by trained as an actor for a long time before. Becoming a maker of things for a it decade and half but Jamie never wanted -- sought that out never actually thought we act still hates that part of the job. However he is accused the peculiar elderly eagle list when you put him up in front of the camera and honest about. What he's thinking and that that. That resonates I I you know of all the blue one less tonight. Think -- learn from. Seven years during the busters is that it's just about it's about hosts the engagement of material that's what makes this show you're watching -- you guys are obviously having it. Who told us before its its blue collar hard work. But it -- them believe replied apparently that's it comes as well and you know in more and more and more what are we are. We are it generating the content executive producing it the content and being. Owning the show and really feeling like it's our show you know when we when we they say yet another last especially. Their last special here you have last year we're gonna do the search it was like I like to build a boat and vice like cool yes -- great what. So as you as the show is progressed. In you guys personalities. More central to ever. You've got more power essentially creative control of the show. Which government we didn't have creative control it actually just have to do is. What we wanted to do with it means. Creative control wouldn't make our ideas produce bull if they weren't good idea this. I mean yes it would after a certain point which is why some shows crash and -- But. Jay -- I happen to have. The teen that it is that the corporate sponsors just Meehan Jamie art director producer -- Gallo -- from Australia. And our executive producer in the UK actually. Can't -- who oversees the editing of the show in Australia and the production in America he spent every morning on the phone with us every afternoon on the phone with -- Dan is fantastic executive producer with a great feel for story and how also happens to be relatively eagle pass when it comes to the right idea. So we may disagree about that in the protocol of the throwing out ideas and stuff like that we never disagree but the actual ideas you know to it's there's a right way to do the show and we find that we don't have to -- Climb over any personality to get to that right idea yeah your your produces trust you essentially with material and we trust them. We trust them with the material you know and if they if they disappoint which happens less and less. I mean the editors at this point and gates so deeply with the material that they rightist I mean I get letters from the editors. Emails to sing I just the spit take of my copy of something you'd get on Russia and fix. Yeah. Yeah it in this is still. So confused wanna beat. Yeah it really is it's tremendous fun I mean like I said this sense of ownership and producing so much more material and engaging with -- so much more. You -- any higher and better collectors of skills and have been on the Hitler while you earn program forever. And this is no exception. We're now learning how to produce a -- the one -- how they do that I won't ever get the chance to do on this show is actually cut what cut wanted to write one go to Australia. Watch the dailies. Take all the Russians brightest scripting. Work with unedited cut what that's like the that would be the finish my education and and I will get to do it on this show different perhaps but not as. Last year he gave a very funnies talk about the Maltese falcon and I never got to see a picture oh. I don't have -- on my phone. I've discovered -- downside to going around to doing talks about the stuff the year two incidents. I've increased my own Google signal to noise ratio. In his I have to links that I've. I have to it's of the Maltese falcon now what I do check in Google searches and everything and I'm curious about half the have to search is now include. My talk and the stuff that I've written about the -- how. I've got to get past my -- debris. I guess I do too good to get to the least I want one that you read that competitive you're talking I was drooling for one was okay well. So here's where we stand on the Maltese falcon I actually held a real one in New York. Desperate. How many real ones there are and what constitutes a real one is debatable. A lot of people who collect things that are this expensive don't wanna be in the public guidance. I'll keep that trust for them. The -- and of the real and and taking 350. Pictures as they did that in twenty minutes. Veteran yet -- and I literally I've put out that I I didn't have a ruler with -- I found at the last of those gonna get to go see it happen at the dollar bill right then put the burden literally. I mean I'm gonna have a book the stick of the angles and I'm gonna go back every sculpted from scratch. Have you. The one I have -- in bronzes 28 pounds. And it's. You just haven't come across that much metal in one -- before because when you go and grab it there's this like three stage holy crap moment but -- it's -- with that it will hold the crowd ask for things like I literally can't get it off the table and I mean half the people can't get -- the table so have you compact we -- when -- original is there anything to -- team. You would you have not noticed in U Ross and need to pay consumers seem -- civic well -- or -- Now -- news no surprises than the general overall to apology is totally clear okay. My problem isn't with the general overall apology in that regard my my replica is perfect. Every every bump is accounted for but. The attitude of those problems this -- that it that way that way how they how it fits. And specifically on the face is that saying that it's very hard to get from one option photograph from the front. One from the side without knowing condolence -- the -- news. Those are those are tough things solved it. Set to pictures that I took hopefully it will. Grant me that kind of access to really now. That I've got it it looks right from every angle that I got and I will literally go back and check it. Through the same Cumberland. Effect that that's that's that's the key to do we should leave your scanner with you when it's on them it wouldn't be the ultimate. But be kind of the ultimate -- they still is to still be a fair amount of work after right laser scanned it and had cut out of something the laser scanner. Is not perfect. Actually can I do you have permission to go back to New York latest. -- yeah I think it. But the -- is not perfect it require it would require laser scanning it 3-D printing it casting the 3-D printing. You lose something and and I at least something -- after -- credit to arch. Wait large write for the dimension for the number of castles that I don't gonna do -- the number of kept molding and cast examples. Then I'd probably pork clay into that and then I would take that clay. I'd start to work the clay master and make it much better their little triple undercuts that I wouldn't be able to see in the in the laser scanned that I will only be able to get by looking at the at the photos there are difference in packets that tropical scanned. Those kind of things so how heavy is the original the original is -- and it's supposedly weighs 45 pounds now there are people that say that. I don't think they're handling the let ones in most of the shots in the film. When you pick up something that weighs 28 house and think about how for -- you know running -- there's -- way -- I didn't -- I know that. That they made at least one -- one and several plaster once and I I I'm convinced that those -- used for -- many of the shots that you see in the film. Where in which carry around yeah and those are gone. Others -- when that sold the pro. Profiles and history I think. Back in 944. Or somewhere on the 100000 dollars. It's just to salute. This is exactly music to the thousand dollars and there's the two. I've lost track of one of the let ones. The other let one another let ones owned by doctor -- lot done Los Angeles I've yet to contact him -- there's a guy who has this guy I've corresponded with by email who supposedly has three clusters. Down and Santa Cruz but we've been playing phone tag Nino tags to try and get a time accountants see them on there's no pictures of some very excited to see. To see them in person. So let's say that the that Mythbusters and next year your your wide open -- which one it is. That's a good question. Well -- I'd be looking for the next project that would allow me to do the same. A lot of the same kind of things they get to do on the show. I would also -- to on the project yet. I don't London -- for don't know them merchandising rights or any of those things and that will be something Albrecht to file the next project. I also lake. You are an interest in in other aspects of entertainment I'm interested in acting I'm interested in interacting I'm Beatrice and executive produce so. All of that would be coming into into the projects that you post that busters but. At this point. Our ratings are absolutely as strong as it's ever been. On an average premiere night we get between I think one and half and went -- billion people watching. Com which often places us at the very top of our demographic and advertising -- cable that time slot. And to you know seven years in that's kind of unheard of our season's built. We don't have a big premiered that then Peters out we actually often start kind of small one point 41 point five in the build up -- point six -- point 71 point eight. American Idol and Dancing With The Stars kicked our asses here. But once they've finished our ratings went right back up where they should. You know the expert to the different ways of -- with -- first they would try that visitor to every couple weeks you know they have two new ones than three weeks off and continuance. Then they found a few years ago that they had a really great run but aired eight episodes around the ratings and every single week now that's generally would seem to -- we try to do is. We'll make a block and they'll air just like this bus recent plot to I think ten episodes grow. And there's another block like that coming up in the fall. -- Yet now this is them. Is that Saturday today one more day aboard and the -- Monday we're back to shooting this new season. And -- I let it grow like to get a check in my wife loves it so. That's the vote batters very but I like to be neat. For the ads for the shows so I'll take it out you'd look amazingly clean one of our -- I think it is. I got a black media about the in my goes there for you out these are here are just back up system back at I -- okay you mention directing. On so it. What would you do what would you wanna direct I would just take -- step to darken stateside five I mean -- I don't know. I don't know. I mean an ambitious I wanna try a little bit of everything it. I've been. I've I've have a five. HD video footage and get that it's actually magnificent I'm not. Currently. Writing something that I wanna shoot a little just a little site peace. And I've finally made the decision and I'm not and operate the camera as that I have this camera but. I don't know if she would because I don't know what issue with it but I work with these brilliant cameraman with a conscript them for a couple weakens and we'll get something in the case."

" Chance to bring your production to the east coast as opposed to remaining in California. You mean permanently well the other you know for whatever project of -- and it could be it could be that you know it could be that we into the executive producing something that happens on the east -- dispose of the west coast but I mean right now but Jamie niners -- stations have to skill level where kids are. Which -- in new York and Connecticut. I do a fairly New York and communicate -- Rhode Island and it's Rockland county all over the place Connecticut has some very fair -- tax exemptions these days of inaugural where I just thought I'd throw that out and unaudited but there are. It's true there are lots of productions come into Connecticut because they do have some the most favorable. Tax incentives now in the whole country. That's Katrina. There's just they're just two weeks ago. Don't -- can. I don't know -- I'm gonna punch you -- there there is that. It was -- through an -- that my children are Californians. Growing up in New York on the east coast. From generations of east coasters. Mayflower and -- him -- Realize like it's points and can handle the snow days in a snow day. Like -- calls it six the boarding is too much fun outside those school. Yeah they're not gonna build that I'm sad that they wanna tell them about it. This mystical stone days -- yeah I think it's every few week -- school in the triple over the weekend Atlanta players something that's not the same you don't have pollution days very. I think it's -- based on such as they did a beautiful beautiful consistent whether all the time but here's problems have to scale. It's cold -- but the problem is that it's called the problem is it's actually never more. And that's what started to get me after twenty years you know there's like. Two or three hot summer nights attempt to -- year -- like everyone goes out of T shirt don't wearing underwear and it's great. You sit outside the cafe he felt like -- it's awesome but disappears almost immediate."

" So at a new or a huge friend and supporter of the skeptical movement. And and I'm always curious to hear from people accuse you know who may be not the typical sort of dirty skeptic inside inside the movement how do you think you're doing -- what are we not doing that we should --"

" It's hard to say what what could be done again when you get to that idea think. Outreach. Proselytizing. It's inherently problematic. I take seriously the role we play within the skeptic community on the show. Even though. That's not the purpose of the show it's a side effect it's a great side effect but it's a side effect of it narrative that. We've developed over the years. And I think that actually I think. I think the skeptical communities to incorporate a reading of the headlines on credit. And and -- especially I mean all of those sites Boingboing. These are all the top social networking sites on the planet. Digg and take his moto in gadget all of them have ferry similar. Critical thinking liberal. Humanist bats except for the the odd bit of spam that makes on the -- its front page it's generally pretty. To skeptics are well represented on the world wide web attitude tune of millions of hits a day of of people. Really looking critically. I'd just treated the other day about the DC increase in the recent Bill Moyers interview with the health health insurance former health insurance executive now. You gotta deal goes search for this Bill -- interviews of former PP at Cigna. And the guy describes basically how they manufactured to public opinion by threatening politicians backed during the Clinton Years in -- before. Like Dem and they specifically targeted Democrats like UN support this. We will actually go to your community and try up here fundraising tool. You'll find your opponents not surprised yeah it is astonishing billboards as one of the great proto skeptics. So I. I feel like -- at the same time you've got your Fox News and you've got -- you know CNN and do ridiculous. New Yorker ombudsman trying to say that you know well calling something torture. That everyone in the world decrees torture somehow picking sides because some small cadre of that's terrible people of tried to make it about a debate. Aside from that point I really do feel like the web has a super critical thinking -- to."

" I agree and I think we are heading above -- weight when it comes to certain venues like the Internet and identity as an iTunes at the listing of signs podcast to taking a look at because that's -- were listed. And out of like the top 25. Science podcast a full ten of them were skeptical I mean. -- over represented right. But when you get to mainstream media torrent traditional old -- whenever. Nothing. He gets -- but it's really hard -- skeptical except for the few that have broken the Mythbusters certainly is TrailBlazer and and then. You know pennant -- on showtime. Don't -- South Park. South Park absolutely but he did he say it's it's the side effect its not threatening but it's a great site offense South -- it's actually. As far as it's free discuss more important than either couple's apartment she did that may be true united that it did because. Of the because they are good comedy show their wildly successful and -- that's a trend begun by the Simpsons they're really do it again follow those sips gently -- also -- you know everything with a grain of salt and nobody is above our radar for four. Ridicule right that's group that's that's really important. So yeah we indict a clean I think we're making inroads I think you've inspired a lot of people say hey you know. I wanna do -- like Mythbusters but maybe a little more scientific or more skeptical or or. With whatever -- less explosions but that he not none of which received selling points. But. Again I think that there's a sense of frustration is that the community that that were not that was -- we still feel like eight tiny minority."

" But -- I disagree here I I recognize that. See I think that if if critical thinking and minority it's it's always gonna be in minority it's kind of like geniuses are in the minority -- do. I'm not equating this with geniuses that I mean. If Jamie was here and I wasn't Jamie would wax on a lot about how six years of having to hold two. Hold two conventions of the narrative structure in order to make our show have a market that the producers like and viewers like. If Jamie had his druthers show would be a lot more robust building in talking about overbuilding and almost none of the and Alex in fact he would have shows where we would finish coming up we had figured out oh well see you next week and her I. Maybe the actual work but I don't think it's gonna work and it's not the show that I wanna produce and honestly I also recognize that a lot of the time. We do their most important work on -- busters in the middle of the show and acts three and four and we have it's a six act show for 44 minutes. -- five and six are usually the stunt excited six or just confirmed something -- getting a nice out that keeps people watching for the full hour. That's a narrative structure you know we we we play with that. Let -- bill Grady. The producer big bank to use the keynote speaker here -- He he said today in our panel. All doctor shows are critical thinking chose to. He -- it is I don't think it's as much of a minority as as the skeptic movement would. Would allow I think it's I think it has more traction and they think Speedo and we need a movie flexible like Iron Man that I thought I had a great deal of integrity iron rent those guys those guys Robert Downey junior mentioned Mythbusters a couple of interviews as inspiration for the showed total -- Treated to mean when we're at Chicago and he watches showed his son. They're very much paying attention to that and up -- with that actually and this is an important part of the critical thinking movement is the tiara is that DIY movement. It didn't make magazine readers instruct Apple's site Geist that's that's that's happening right now which. Just dovetail perfectly with the busters I think it's coincidence and it's perfect. It's idiotic relationship we have. This is the point at which people are starting to have their technology like they started to hack their cars in the fifties you and now you can. Make magazine can open up your electronic sister to do do things with them. Things that you wouldn't of thought you know people like Wallace and get more solid state they'll be less like mucking with your microwave but actually. Now it's turning out to be more. And I think that's really I think that's fantastic. And that's also making people realize that there world a smaller ballparks for the think an index."

" Iron Man movie. I mentioned flights were you guys are economic ask for help about something. -- brother -- and haven't -- and look it's -- reading comic book sometimes you know they mix in -- over yet you crossover between me out you know real characters in the and in the fictional did you see there was a website to chronicle all of Michael -- appearances and Marvel Comics. -- yet he appeared in a whole bunch of about them at buses he has appeared to comic we have actually made some appearances comics I mean a."

" Also an excuse CD -- A couple of times he's been -- deaths. I saw you guys on the -- to Darwin awards we -- otherwise and watch horribly bad year in line tipping our moment which is Othyus every hole with a apology that was really -- David Arquette was very nice we had a really fun day in Reno at -- surplus store about what to scrap their tip for her to have a we also had the we also -- cameo on CSI. Which is great that was set. But people email me CSI it aired an episode where they hit. Shot at higher -- I had designed for. There will big Brinks truck -- And so. I called my lawyer just to get the right number and he got me the number for the writers from CSI and called up. Whispers it's and sent home on his his. And rich -- anything -- that I sense that they -- right of -- whether key writers that writer of that episode god and he said he got the stuff right. That's a little too far from it I'm really -- that you used are turning his Trippi told second time we've. -- I don't entirely the wholesale -- your show let me show you he was a forensic specialists and NYPD for a couple decades. And that sparked friendship we we did the the entertainment industry thing is that you since -- back and forth. You put together what you teacher to have some videos you sent them than they -- the two jackets hats and stuff like that so but this -- exchange and and they asked us to come and apparently -- That's cost. Even a serious side it is. Excellent example of very critical -- and show absolutely and -- number -- to pin number one -- number one mentions again to let ought to could be argued -- CSI at the crime procedural demonstrate the dangers of who looked critical thinking right. You got the CSI effect but juries can yes. Oh it was DNA reality DNA -- no DNA innocent. Yeah there oversaw the technologists in Raleigh NC making it the needles and a daily take weeks and there's actually a lot of crime procedural stuff I'd love to take out of the show it tends to be not very visual to do there's one which we were we actually talk to an old crimes and upset and I was bring -- one which I liked. A recent trip to Seattle. Did some tests to demonstrate the distance equated exactly to -- certain. In terms of being able to recognize. So it's. He was able to show if someone was forty feet away you could do you know three pixel gals in blur and it would look like this up close and you could actually demonstrate forty feet away. It's pretty hard to recognize them. I thought the researchers interest in -- this. Abstract of this paper on and I emailed and it's -- to take into account though that in the distance their boosting. I would think that the light moving over the topography of the case is going to reveal more about -- structured your -- that the mere visual the interest -- and."

" He said. Yeah we thought about it no we haven't done any research -- how that's that's like we've been a big African elephant in the -- products are a lot of actually moment in. Without also how people move right -- and recognize people know. A 100% absolute medicate absolutely or Robert I would -- facial expressions as soon as they're moving exactly. I raised the all of those things that were pulling in information only on a genetic well just because as a survival mechanisms you know the same thing that makes your dog. Bark because your nerves about seeing the other dog he's picking up cues yours were picking up those cues from -- all the time they'll also have practice and -- right. Out of before. We you remember his last few you do -- the -- it's -- projects before it was that they -- which yes yeah. Perry yes so for export market. We can do that electronically and then there's a much easier way than many items that are hard way very expensive gas the funny thing about that -- though about that -- as we showed that 21 of the people at discovery and we should have two clips when that we've faked and that one and they thought. They thought the fake one was real and they looked at that would set. It's so clear that it's that it's not. Yeah I'll ask you mean maybe maybe so when she owned by affluent songs would this -- so we'll arms -- food and."

" It's -- Hi fi fanatics of lymphoma and it's working our way -- I would wear that around all I didn't bother us. Org you can look at some -- it'd just go to war. Damn thing off in. Madrid high -- when others you're."

" It's. Meant helium instead yeah its -- ACC and Brittany she's and I didn't. Exactly. Already have been easy sort of sign in this online -- yeah not a bad thing that blatantly like that. You want -- leading up now we agreed that Arvydas brought this show happen and this --"

" the rate movements that's one of our favorites it's terrific -- is one of my heroes. Absolutely absolutely. Well Adam we love you -- the show. Kerry to intervene next year thank you so what they'll be back yeah awesome awesome so much is -- and -- thank you again. It's time for shot."

" Each week I look at least ninety values were -- to field. One fictitious and I challenge -- skeptics to tell me which one is the -- And -- ready for this week. Okay I guess I guess that's so ready yes yes totally but what reason it was smoldering it is in and week out. Reagan."

" So item number one scientists discovered evidence of iridescent. And a forty million year old fossil that there. -- and number two scientists developing new computer model of the effects of this solar cycle on climate change indicating a much greater effect than previously believed. And item number three a survey of nearby galaxies has located several stars that appear to be older than needs of the universe. Rebecca the first."

" If if you know RA last week I knew exactly which one and I. Don't call me first now this week -- this -- I have not read and single science painter."

" Except bush the one of the appendix. They read that became useless after -- iridescent in the forty million year old fossil center. That's tricky. I am totally at a -- here. Okay the -- concentrate and kind of multitask non podcast in -- thinking and that's not."

" Arquette that I liked the idea of iridescent feathered fossil though. That's plausible because I just. Like the dirty because it's like -- immunity."

" A computer model. Showing the effects of climate change urged the solar cycle. I'd I'd totally. Buy that as well that the solar cycles has something to do with climate change. How at -- Is it much greater than previously believed. I'm thinking."

" by galaxy showing several stars appear to be older than age of the universe sounds implausible at first. However there -- a lot of ways that things can appear older than the two theaters. Aren't. Actually. That happens all the time."

" So."

" I'm gonna say. That the solar cycle does not."

" I have a greater effect on climate change in previously believed I guess okay and yeah."

" Fiction the iridescent some of forty million year old fossil feather. I think that's plausible something iridescent got. Caught up in the -- solicitation process in held its -- essence. The second one. Regarding. The new computer model of the effects of the sort cycle on climate change. A much greater effect than previously believed yeah I don't think that that's correct. And a lot of people who. Are somewhat skeptical of man made global warming and climate change and so forth hang -- Often on what's going -- recycle. Tend to agree that that -- funky. And you know the stars that appeared to be older in the -- of the university -- adults I don't think you would put that up there unless it was science beat 'cause that's his and so. Contradictory in itself that says it's gotta be the curve ball so I'll agree with Rebecca. That the solar cycle on climate change that -- fiction."

" Yes. The tough ones iridescent and a forty million -- apostles -- doses of course is in -- appearance which of that and but how -- it how thin film an appearance fossilized. I guess you could have a mineral elected fossilized. Mineral would have to be also -- transparent. I guess that's possible. On some -- what that one I mean I think that's real. Let's see so recycling cremated as Steve can I ask you -- I think the key word here it's climate change. Are you do you mean by that -- whatever went baseman they say climate change. I'm statistical climate change alright. I think that's that's an important distinction. So but it save data sites as well because of that the third one. Now years ago I remember reading for the first time quite quite awhile ago that they were stars that seem to be older in the age of the universe and of course that's. It's impossible. On the then of course as they as estimates were refined it made sense. Op but the -- back then though we thought the universe was what was -- disfigured people through round ten to twenty billion years old. So people would average out fifty billion. That's that that's pretty much would they were saying 1020 years -- but now it's they really got it nailed down with thirteen point your somethin'. So -- so the fact that now they're saying that now I think it's. Makes me really think that some -- you know does that make as much sense as it did years ago in the Arab pars where's -- so being. So compensate that one it's fiction."

" Okay so you all agree that scientists discovered evidence of iridescent and a 42 year old fossil feather is science and about one is in fact science. Mean pretty Dicey did this research. We value your -- we interviewed him very recently. Back techno. I was Adam savage. How come doctor Richard problems. Chair of the department to college I guess there about AL that we interviewed about it about. The evolution of birds from dinosaur yeah talked about his research into. -- to fossil feathers and the fact that his team. Is that discovering the mechanisms of color in that there's in this news upon the I guess the latest to come out of that line of research. And what they are finding is that the the preserved color producing it never no structure in fossilized. Others. Including. Structure that would produce iridescent. We're changing color depending on the angle of observation because as Bob said of the thin film interference like you would -- an oil slick -- tried went for example. Cool yep very call this -- doesn't do electron -- microscopic examination. And they found is that this of destruction that they were looking at were in fact Malayan sounds previously. Researchers that they might have just been -- bacterial contamination or something but they they demonstrated clear that there Melinda some fraternities. Protein that would give the color to the feathers and there are -- to figure out what colors they were based upon the properties of them in his arms. So we're gonna get more researcher at more publications added that -- this research witnesses the latest ones."

" To the pro teams themselves fossilized the structure to structure does do -- structure of the proteins -- of which are very fine. Seems to me that would have become refined. I can hybrid solution fossil -- and I mean they're saying NATO structure. And yeah electron microscope that's gas and -- wow wonder that's a very special. Scenario in which these these birds were fossilized yes eventually it'll say -- they're discovering ultra structural detail in the fossil feathers. -- Who's also on the paper. The discovery of ultra structural detail and feathered fossils opens up Markel possibilities for investigation of other features and soft bodied fossils like firm. Indeed an internal organs. So this may be opening up and a completely new lot of evidence from fossils applause that's all. -- Let's go want to number two -- has developed a new computer model of the effects of the -- like on climate change indicating a much greater effect than previously believed evident regret beef up his one mistake but you thought this from the science. And this one is. Science."

" It's I'm -- ever never. Should have no doubt but week. You know that there is solar forcing is a caller on the on the climate. On the we've talked about this previously because of the -- were currently and a pretty deep solar minimum. And then maybe having some effects on you know I'm recently on our climate. But what scientists -- they didn't really know exactly what the relationship was how what was the effect of the this eleven year. You know sunspots solar cycle and how it influences the climate they were able to. Figure out some things by giving a computer model and it and it turns out that the effect as far greater than they had previously thought. So let me let me read the the main paragraph from the the science daily article that describes this as a little tricky says. The team first confirmed a theory that the slight increase in solar energy during the peak production of sunspots is absorbed by stratosphere -- The energy warms the area in the stratosphere over the tropics. Where some -- is most intense while also stimulating the production of additional ozone that absorbed even more solar energy. Since he stratosphere warms unevenly with the most renounced warming occurring at lower latitudes stratospheric winds are altered and to a chain of interconnected processes and of strengthening tropical precipitation. So the key here is that as I understand is that there's a suburb of self reinforcing feedback loop created by this that amplifies the effects that sent the solar heating as. On the on the climate. Very interesting in the -- we used we had discussed previously that. The degree to which there is being made forcing of the climate in the warmer direction is being offset actually in recent years because of the effect to burn a deep solar minimum. We're still waiting for the sun spots to bounce back that we had that one big son spotted cropped up a month ago. Armament and a half ago but since then he's still been pretty much in the solar minimum it's excellent kick -- Evidence is longer than it usually takes them. What a -- that. That news I don't know -- that's that there were predicting by you delete and we had it is. A couple of spots the that it really are right in cake in talk about not being able the controller and write one so they're saying it. Sunspot 1025. A nuisance -- emerged yesterday. And intrepid a 51 day string of blanks aren't there wasn't much of an interruption. Since about what -- without a small and may already -- anyway. So it sounds like we're still pretty close. And sunspot activity. All this means that a survey of nearby galaxies has located several stars appear to be older than he's of the universe and that is indeed fiction. And Bobbie you hit the nail on the head with that went so -- based on the fact that previously. Going back 1020 years. There was that a parent dilemma that some of the oldest stars were aged and older than the current. You know average age of the universe but there was sort of overlapping. Error bars you know for those two things but since then we've refined both our age of the universe and the aging of the stars. And it turns out as you would think. That the universe is indeed older than me or the start. In fact. The oldest story could find an industry -- somebody correct me if this is wrong with the wanted to find is a star. In our own galaxy they -- was thirteen point two billion years old. Where the current needs of the uterus given it thirteen point seven doing yours. So. Universe is over -- starts but this was based on real news item that this is if it's interesting but it's a little. Esoteric bit of astronomical. You know minutia. Imported bite you know. Astronomical moment -- in -- This has to do with the initial mass function you guys familiar with the initial mass function. The initial -- function I am yes -- I method isn't that caught the giant that initial. Yeah I'm good at I'm good at picking up for letters this hostility mass of stars. The initial mass function refers to the distribution of the masses of stars as they are created. The assumption was that the IMF was pretty uniform. Throughout the universe that looked at -- galaxy AD IMF for an account to be the same -- recount eight. We assume that that's the starting point. And therefore we could look at the ratio high -- the low mass stars. In a galaxy and -- and come to some conclusions about how old that galaxies. What they found is that. For different galaxies the IMF is actually different it's. In -- the team looked at some dwarf galaxies they show -- dwarf galaxies they were many more low mass stars than expected. Good job I say thank you very -- Oh thing sir -- lastly -- right here it is folks."

" It's."

" Yeah. I saw a lot of speculation. There was no guards as though there wasn't anybody got a -- hardly any consensus and no -- got it right but it just -- It was a very tough one and what it is is the sound of a crop circle being made. So it's the process of -- you know you take -- wooden plank you hold it you know you hold it with your ropes is stepping on it in your walking around and smashing down your -- creating your crop circle. And I got this sound effect. From the website www. Circle makers dot org. One stop shop for. Crop circles how to make your own. Evidence is that how they're made testimonies. Video evidence audio evidence every gas to know about crop circles these guys make. Beautiful crop circles and it totally blows away of the Syria allergist who claimed that nobody could make such confiscated at. But these guys do it on a regular basis on a regular basis -- document everything may be it's very good website. So -- what about the magnetic field of this -- that ethics thought ended up blah blah. We have this week's -- to play all right let's hear it right votes here comes."

" A month I tried to keep this thing from happening in the lineup didn't willow thought when he made that happen to us. We -- out alive than what's being done. -- criminality of people including people who walked out it is a beautiful walked down."

" Mostly white people. This is nothing."

" Interest there you go and I'll just tune in next week afterward at its apparent -- It's -- it's -- uninteresting ones so well actually it'll lead to some more for some more discussion next week's show is -- live show from dragon -- this and that after that's going to be your live show from the -- conference. In. So I was only a couple weeks before review in in my -- week that her resilience of -- didn't. So Rebecca you're covering for -- this week for the --"

" I -- this this was sent in by Peter. It's from Rosalind Franklin. Who is well known as a brilliant English scientist who helped kitchen -- you know our idea of what the structure of DNA is on with. Crick and Watson of course it's he died when she's only 370. Right before she. Would have been eligible to receive the Nobel prize -- And she said this. You look at science or at least talk of it as some sort of demoralizing invention of man. Something apart from real life and which must be cautiously guarded and kept separate from every day existence. The science and everyday life cannot and should not be separated. Science for me gives a partial explanation from night. Insofar as it goes it's based on fact experience. An experiment. I'm afraid Koreans that the."

" Good quote well thanks are treated me get this week guys and our pleasure and until next week this is -- skeptics guide to the universe."

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" Okay."