Title: Whose Words These Are (4): Joan Houlihan

" And Christopher -- with the ethnic poet of the us. Joe hold hands we're taking the mini pulses of poetry in our midst in our time and open source from the -- executed at Brown University. An American conversation with -- global attitude we call it this one polls in this series whose words these are. On the way to the Massachusetts portrait festival in October 09 we're asking is that for the first time we're portrait comes from. Where it's going. Teacher and writer and critic Joe who hand -- to Concord poetry center outside Boston. In the hometown of the American Renaissance of the 1850s. Ever since town and the roads and Louisa may Alter its town of Concord. They're old idea of a poultry circled his reborn but -- today of course on a global scale by the world wide web. We met -- who has in the Cambridge college of -- the bullets. To grow -- bookshop and Harvard Square."

" John -- had integration self. The must've been a pool more poet that got you into the game."

" Well probably everybody's. Everybody's trigger palm was a love song of jail for for for arc of a scene that through. And lots of -- bios as being the poem and that was a big one for me. -- what you really. Sealed it. For me was the studying Gerard Manley Hopkins. Having -- strict Catholic background going through parochial school going through all that kind of it in many ways poetic learning. Because all of it turned into a kind of ritual and sign and sun and parable and story and it's all very useful later after the religion part. I was very intrigued by drug Manley Hopkins how someone. So. Talented C you know was such of a voice. Could also be a priest and how that. How that related and how that so that that puzzle began to interest me. But it was drawn first by the by the power of his voice in the power of the music and so I'm very interested in the the ears and the sound right and in my own poetry I'm very interested masonic. Textures of -- home so his is the perfect example of someone who used to sound."

" Couple things that -- yes so pick yourself in the great chain of being. In poetry. How many degrees of separation from. The biggies like Hopkins."

" I don't know how many others well those are -- my heroes. Whoever Hopkins. -- certainly Sylvia Plath who I think has been overshadowed for so long by her. Biography. Has yet really to emerge from from that for the consummate poet she was. In fact I think probably Emily Dickinson and Sylvia Plath and and then for female poets huge huge influences for me. And and also. Both giving me as a female a way to look at. Being part of that that poetry pantheon because up until then you know through high school and reading. Very prescribed -- kinds of literature and and parochial school. It was male oriented and so and also. Oriented toward an academic kind of life. In other words something that I senator is not related to me. Who would you give us an all time favorite poem not your own. Well I have a -- Hopkins homes and is considered a favorite poem parties would love to read them. It's called no worst there is none. No worst there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief. Mark hangs well schooled at four pangs wilder ring. Comfort her where where is your comforting. Mary mother of us where is your relief. My cries heave heard so long huddle in Maine. A chief world world's sorrow on an age old and full Wentz and sing. Standalone and then leave off. Fury had shrieked no lingering let me be found force I must be brief. -- of the mind to mind has mountains cliffs of fall frightful -- no men found them to. Hold him cheap. Mayhew who never hung there. Nor does long are small -- deal with that steep or deep. Here treat rich under comfort. Serves in a whirlwind. All life death does end in each day -- with sleep. So. I -- the force of that and me -- the emotional power behind it. Now it is I think it would be seen us. Really over the top and I love it for that. And of that over the top quality of it and I love the drama of it. I think poetry. In some cases lacks drama."

" Joe would you give us a taste of your favorite Dickinson."

" sure I'd be glad to. This is called after great pain a formal feeling comes. After great pain a formal feeling comes. To nerves sit ceremony is like two homes. The stiff part questions. Was that he that war and yesterday. Or centuries before. The feet mechanical go around a wooden way of ground or -- are a lot. Regardless of grown a quartz contentment. Like a stone. This is the hour of live remembered if -- As freezing persons recollect the snow. First chill then stupor. Then the letting go."

" Management from it it really is and that the then of the psychological. Exactly two and I guess you could say about about this is really remarkable to me."

" Well Europe Google to be applied Sylvia Plath a great -- Hidden behind the biography."

" This is one of my favorites. Because it's so. In some ways. About the ordinary which we don't we don't usually think of Sylvia -- connected this way this is about her child. Morning song. Love say you going like a fat gold watch. The midwife slapped your foot souls and your bald cry took its place among the elements. Our voices echo magnifying your rival new statue. In a -- museum. You're naked in this shadows are safety. We stand around blankly as walls. I'm no more your mother than that cloud that distill some merit to reflect its own slow if basement at the winds hand. All night your mock breath Flickr's among the flat pink roses. I -- to listen. A -- moves in my ear. One cry and I stumble from bed cow -- and floral in my Victorian nightgown. Your mouth opens clean as a -- The windows square widens and swallows its -- stars. And now you try your hand full of notes. That clear vols rise like balloons. We do use the short course in your own work. Short course -- manufacturer and latest book is called the us. And -- is is with the U not to be confused with you us I hope although some well. And it's a collective. Voice in fact that's the name of the group of speakers the us they speak as one. Something like a chorus there nomadic. Hunter -- is. They are. Moving and wandering and looking to survive from one place to another there unnamed but. Probably primitive their language is. Understandable. But. Unusually. I would say fractured perhaps or that seeming to be formed. So linguistically. And they're not quite sophisticated. Psychologically. They are not either but in their lack of sophistication. I think they speak. They speak to us in a contemporary way. Because of tried to use trip back all of the -- things. That seemed to. In gulf everyone now and go to what's what I think of as a basic human needs and desires and and I hear them okay. So there's a plot in this story and I should say something about that the there's a -- a handful of characters if you well. The father the son. The wife the brain which is a child. There's another group of people."

" Called dams and there are more sophisticated and there are more interested in. Enslaving the us and having them do things for themselves -- to avoid them so this is kind of clash of civilizations. It's a big -- but these are very and some ways also small and understandable concerns. What do I -- way to go way to isolate. So I'll read one from the very beginning to get -- have a sense of -- what they are in what what is there about. This is called morning and his son is born."

" Morning and his son is born from dark r.'s father took to attract to wear the red deer ran. Except one stood great headed tall. Of the size and look to put in mind the reach of what I swore and came to be and how us where the smaller. What formed -- Al -- godly as from an inner body. Bone branch to notched and wide. Spread and spread it out and opt. And him on a standing. Watchful and seen ran the forest. Head struck and stuck between the trees. Our stick sharp for the killed lifted high -- and and and from him -- a groan went. Leg bent -- Then all of him wear -- and spread in large. And streaming -- testicles streaming read."

" This book is very different from the books preceding it so you asked about my. Kind of my life trajectory you're as a poet. The short course in holding hands I guess with hooliganism. Or that but previous that this was amending warm and that was much more personal kind of -- Biographical. You know all -- want to use their biography that's what we have that's immaterial -- you know it's a foot but at some point. And I've reached that point you tired of it and that's not of the interests and it doesn't have the emblematic quality that it once had. And so I've reached out to. Encompass. Other other characters other figures at that are speaking for me let us begin to sound like -- very public. -- yes so this incident is definitely in vein of epic although I wouldn't wanna make such claims -- it and maybe epic with a small. -- give us your own sort of off the top report on the state of the art and."

" I would tennis a lot of a lot more searching going on our at least it's more evident than it used to be and certainly when I was. In graduate school in reading. You know the anthology of of a -- I didn't have a sense that I have now of all these. Various pieces does a lot of pieces is that someone balkanized and their their people trying to form schools loses to make it more sensible. To have the school and to have that school would have for example the elliptical poets that once it's a label then people feel a little more comfortable that. We understand this piece of it Winston -- but for a threat just of a reader going into a bookstore and pulling down. Up a book of poetry they could try five times to come up with you know five very different completely different ways of approaching the hour. The best American poetry every year shows that I think shows that kind of wide variety -- skepticism."

" Let me ask you -- Jones to a new address your poetry is it for yourself you readers. Your editors do your kids. The spoken audience -- and so on who you're talking to what you want to."

" Not to again make. A grand claim but am I feel like I want to speak to time I want to speak I wanna say something that. Speaks to the time that wherein and the time loyalist then and that. The voice that I want people to hear will be one that they can here forever. That's that's a very grand claim I know but -- when we meet argues conundrum we'll at least have a reporter. Well -- a means to think about that I think we need to think about that. Business side of it and we're publishing in his right now and where the how that poetry is. Being disseminated I mean it's not so much where will we be aesthetically I think. Where will we be at all. In terms of how people access these bombs -- Publishing industry is struggling the and independent publishers I mean they're always struggling I have AM. A manuscript conference -- run them about once a month and editors and publishers come there and they evaluate people's manuscripts for. Potential publication. But there are always talking about their struggle in about. How they can barely exist because poetry books. Many of being produced fewer being sold. The publishing industry as a whole is suffering that digit digits as a nation of and literature is happening at the same time. A so I think in five years. Our conversation. Might have to do -- How do you on -- year Heidi get your poetry out in the world now. And who is your readership now."

" What you've learned from schools and from. The hurricanes and high school about the medium."

" Why don't I don't teach in high school teacher and two MFA programs one it Lesley university in Cambridge and now one at Columbia university in New York. And I'm learning from the students that. The that the drive to be a poet is there it's it's very it's very primal drive if it really seems to have nothing to do with. What's going on in the world at large however the way that the students now approach poetry is very different from when I was in school. There's an approach that. Has to do more with how will my words would be seen when will they be seen. There's no doubt about what I'm doing really. And I actually it was such a struggle for media even. Call myself a poet and a little daunted by. Of the fact that there are so many young people -- who just laid claim to that identity and now what's next now -- do that. That's an interesting thing. But I think what you're you're asking about is what the view is from young people about the art. And whether or not they're interested and it. And I think they are but I think they're interested in it in a different form I think they're interested in and song I mean my sons listened to records and that records that are CDs button and Millard sometimes -- fabulous I mean they're just poetry there's so there's and there's New Yorkers. Well right now I'm like -- playing. For for up to date. -- Today artists that. I I think that that's for the poetry is for younger people and and I think many young people see the books as kind of -- artifact that you know poem in a book as something of an artifact."

" Junior part of Concord Massachusetts collective. Reports today George reminds me of Susan -- line about. Age of Emerson she said you know most. Of the best American -- was written and buy houses and three streets within five years in Concord Massachusetts. A -- about the current group but also what you make coached the New England tradition. And the links today to throw Emerson Dickinson Wallace Stevens. The greats."

" As you know I I started to conquer poetry center and that was. Really. That really grew out of a sense of my own need for community of -- Simply I mean didn't I wasn't intended anything more than that yeah yeah a gang and that -- Eight you know and that way there's a link to the other gangs in Concord -- that were formed and for the same reason where my kin you know where. Where can I go to talk about what I'm interested in and where the people who appreciate. I think there are a lot of us poets. Outside the -- Boston Cambridge. Area who. Are living lives quiet desperation or not but they have families they have work they have but they're still reading poetry and they're still but they're very isolated. And I think that my idea of this was to -- a place for. Such people and and others com. And is it turns out. It so if it turns out there are a lot of poets who have the same -- so. So the center grew from. You know maybe twenty people. In the beginning to now it sound nearly 200 members but but also more than that there -- people who've come out to our events. We have thirty to fifty people every time -- of the Sunday reading and I think I don't always recognized a steep you know it's a different set of people. So in in terms of the community and that connection with Concord. I've found that conquered is of very. Interesting. Place in terms of it wanting. To be both seen as a literary center but also owning that identity. So in other words the Emerson umbrella where asserted that poetry center is a place for artists it's a place for. Painters sculptors potter is nowhere in that in that. -- umbrella was there a place for poets which I found strange. Or or a literary center of any kind."

" And then we asked Joe -- as regards to other parts to fill in some of the conversational dobbs with a version of the Proust questionnaire. Hoosier I -- artist -- and in another medium."

" Well I tend to think of phone drama being next of -- to. My medium and -- volleys and I've always had it at a kinship with the the of service playwright spent her and and would now be. Beckett was a huge influence on me and I think on my thinking. Not just as plays its literature. What talent do you most loved that you don't have. I think island light to be able to. Either sing our. Play an instrument. Jeanine. Would you call the key note of your personality as a -- Probably. A need to see things. As clearly and honestly as possible I do like I do like honesty I do like then the reality of things. What quality do you load in -- home. A sweeping sense of humanity so that I get the the emotional part. I love the language part that brings you to kind of vision. Up. A little -- well I love the great home like the Hopkins -- that works on so many levels that you never tire of it. But that. It's not that the levels are keeping allowed it's just that they're not all visible it wants. And you can revisit an end we experienced -- what your motto."

" It prepares. Not want to put it."

" Drew and thank you so much this is confirmed. --"

" Paul McCarthy edited this conversation with Joomla hand are Brown University interns and a Olson. Then -- the current helped us get ready. Thanks to the -- tortured bookshop and the Massachusetts poetry festival for helping gathered the players and thank you for listening all the more if you leave a comment. Or your fault. Or your favorite poem from somebody else -- our website. Radio open source dot court. I'm Christopher like."