Title: Here and Now for Friday, October 9, 2009

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" I'm -- Young it's here and now President Obama said this morning that his being honored with the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize. Speaks to the ideals of the United States. Reaction to the award was swift too early said former winner Lech Walesa. He east it speaks to the young president's promise send another winner Desmond Tutu. And a radical Muslim leader in Pakistan said it triples Obama's responsibilities. To work for peace. Barack Obama is only the third US president to win the honor while in office joining Woodrow Wilson Teddy Roosevelt. I mean let's take a look at the context here in history -- military is professor of history and public affairs at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School he joins us. From the Princeton University studio and Julian. Just your first thoughts on this in anti war anti at least Iraq War. Candidate. Who is now the commander in chief of two conflicts win the Nobel Peace Prize."

" My first thought was this is a president who now continues to face the challenge of high expectations. And at the same time some pretty intractable problems and it's a story we heard after the election. And now with its elevated sense of what might happen he's gonna face that again."

" Well in is and we can look back to history. As I was doing this morning you know good going around and there you are at the Woodrow Wilson School. I'm sure you son of Woodrow Wilson who also started out as a very anti war he he 11 election I think in 1916 on the motto he kept us out of war -- then he was forced to war."

" He did his award comes at the very end of his presidency but it's again a similar story he promised not to send people Americans into war. And he does after the 1960 election he promises a more progressive war here on the home front. And yet he imprisons opponents of the war. And finally he's unable to pass -- to have the Senate ratified the League of Nations. Here in the United States out so that award that he gets is really -- much about what he tried to do. Much more than what he was able to do."

" Just a -- cents obviously it's such an honor. But is it also com what is drawbacks to -- upon. It dies two draw backs are one the most apparent."

" Is the political fall out that you will get it already started this morning. And you could just hear the advertisements and and the messages I that are going to be conveyed on talk shows you know that he didn't deserve it and it goes back to a critique we've heard. Since Hillary Clinton's primary run that this is a candidate of charisma. But not one of substance at the second will be again raised expectations internationally about what he could achieve with Iran with Afghanistan. And the question is can he do it says there are costs and challenges that come from a great award."

" the national Republican committee chair Michael Steele put out a statement saying the real question Americans are asking is what has President Obama actually accomplished. Liberal commentator Gideon -- wrote in the Financial Times it's okay to give schoolchildren prizes for effort. But I think international statesmen should probably be held to a higher standard but then of those who say. That Obama. And then it's okay that the the committee in the past. Has rewarded people for the direction they're heading and it's almost as if they're applauding the direction."

" It -- it that was what the committee dead so again they're they're applauding what he's promised to do. And and what his campaign signified to the world. After the Bush Administration it was seen. As a dramatic break or the promise of a dramatic break for the direction foreign policy took so I think that's -- the committee's applauding. Obviously also the election of an African American president in the United States. I think was a landmark not just for race relations here in the country but around the world and might be that was part of what the committee thought about as well."

" Well infect a former laureate -- and the by Zell said the same thing this morning he said pretty much Barack Obama. Offered himself up as an opportunity for the American people. To sort of make up for the racial problems in the past and paraphrasing him that he -- for that alone. He might have been rewarded for briefly -- in -- for the very questions that President Obama tested dealing right now you we have the potential of Nobel Peace Prize winner. Sending more troops into a conflict in Afghanistan."

" I think it highlights the attention he's been facing about his hope to really read direct foreign policy and national security policy but some of the challenges of doing so and that's coming together in Afghanistan. And the question should there be an escalation of force brings this question write to the forefront and obviously to have a Nobel prize winner becoming a wartime president. Soon after the award would be pretty dramatic I think it just in intensifies the tension that exists."

" Well and we -- history that it was a dramatic with Woodrow Wilson Julian zealots and professor of history and public affairs at Princeton university's Woodrow Wilson School but really his upcoming book is arsenal of democracy. The politics of national security from -- to the war on terrorism. -- Thanks. Well during a speech in Selma Alabama in 2007. -- Obama paid tribute to the leaders of the civil rights era when he says. I thank the most -- generation. We've got to remember that his greatest Moses was -- crossover to see the promised land today were called to be the Josh was of our time to be degeneration. That finds our way across the river. -- that reference to Moses who led the Jews out of Egypt but didn't make it to the promised land Joshua was the leader then. Barack Obama was following an American tradition it's stretches back to the mayflower resources our next guest. Who says that Martin Luther King Abraham Lincoln George Washington all invoked Moses when they asked pretty much Florida -- right thing. Bruce filer traces these fascinating connections in America's prophet Moses and the American story and he joins us from the Carnegie Hall studios Bruce welcome back here now. Roberts so great director."

" Well as usual you know you go on a walk and you come back and an entirely new way at looking at the familiar. For instance you say even Superman has a Moses story."

" Well one of the amazing things about this journey is comprised sat out I kind of -- a little bit of the story in place but I was just a Mickey's -- okay will the pilgrims follow and a founding fathers -- and Bambi sleeves on the underground route that Abraham Lincoln I kept kind of -- I can't find it again I can't find it again and after the civil war in a lot of ways the Bible declines in influence in America you would think biblical heroes would decline. But -- what happens is the most this kind of do you couples himself from the Bible and sort of begins to enter American pop culture. And 1938 to book is Jews from Cleveland Ohio you Jews were. Outside the mainstream and and comic books for way to get in the mainstream date based bear superhero on the super hero of the -- Just as Moses is put into a basket and floated down and I'll also. Superman as a baby is put into a rocket ship and floated out into space in both cases to escape annihilation. Both are raised by alien families and unfamiliar world before being called to -- to save humanity. And perhaps the most striking thing is Superman's original name was call hell. Which in Hebrew means swift god that Al Elohim is the same in his right Al wrestling with gone so the back story is taken from Moses."

" Also they had for those who may only know. The thinnest of the story lines that Moses led the Jews out of Egypt any part of the Red -- remind us who is -- his at his stories told the first five books in the old testament."

" Which of course are called the five books of Moses from my first story just as it covers 2000 years of history and got the creation and -- the patriarchs Joseph finance would just have living down in Egypt. As prime minister the next four books take only 200 years and just tell the story of Moses. The story opens with the -- enslaved in Egypt the pharaoh fears their growing strong says kill all the firstborn males a mother takes her son -- some domino I'll. The daughter of the -- picks him up names him I was this raises him and met the palace of the pharaoh and then escorted to and jumps to when Moses sees what it is Ken's been being slaughtered huge dam murder Sam fleas into the desert. Few years later here's a voice in the burning bush this is the voice of god it's sort of like the uncle Sam your country needs -- says younger people need to go back and preempt most of doesn't want to but he does. Goes back confronts his surrogate grandfather who I was is the -- is that Sony says let my people -- and Moses basically becomes the champion of freedom right and this is this big decision in his wife and it is this aspect of Moses. That begins to act so many years later in American life so he -- because right. Across the red seat. Into the desert. To get the ten commandments and then go off into the promised land but basically the most a story happens 3200 years ago it's mostly been downplayed Soviet Jews really downplay Moses in favor of god. Christians -- am in favor of Jesus Muslims in favor of Mohammed and then the Catholic church of course -- century says you can't read the story so what happens is with the prost and reformation the printing press now people have bibles. So people are beginning to read the Bible really for the first time right around the time. That America's been found to these pilgrims in sixteen twining. The book -- they carry on the mayflower are emblazoned with title page which has a picture Moses everybody says what I can relate. To that story -- oppressed person whether it's. King James for the the pilgrims or king George for the founding fathers or the masters for the slaves or Jim Crow in the civil rights movement I. Also can reach to a higher authority the Bible god to say I deserve to be free and I think it's this is why. -- becomes much more influential story in America than Jesus have one."

" And we should say. It's not just the freedom aspect in the running from. It's running to responsibility in Moses his original journey wins the Jews and all that easy -- the way. A lot of points there was a lot of complaining if you wanna -- best thing -- as good as -- an insane with the pilgrims on the -- they fire command. So a part of the Moses narrative is that along the way to freedom the people don't trust the leader so he has remind them pretty partially in Moses -- case that. They traded slavery for personal --"

" On stability in that case in the form of the ten commandments. The same thing happened in the revolution so when the revolutionary era. First there was the revolution the war of independence but what happens in America as soon -- the revolution happens a similar period of lawlessness and chaos. And it results in the same thing the constitutional convention. On July -- 1776. Franklin Jefferson and Adams asked by the continental congress to come up with a -- of the United States. They recommend Moses so just as Moses led the people out of slavery and brought them the law. George Washington led people into freedom during the revolution and presided over the constitution and analogy was a -- two thirds. Of the eulogies from Washington died compare him to most."

" By the way Moses didn't make it under seal of the United States in San -- eagle with an olive branch -- one talent -- percent of -- in the -- but it was almost the business. A move on to the underground railroad. You traveling underground railroad pass that you meet for instance Carl Westmoreland. A descendant of slaves who tell you that he knew -- the most is narrative when he was six usual."

" He and church one day is being told the story of his wife and comes home and tells that hate this is my story. African Americans in addition to just liking the freedom aspect of history going back to the years before the civil war. Also took on the responsibility. -- it and said that we have to have our own code of ethics that if we're going asked to be free we have to take on some churches took this on and of course what's interesting about this the white overseers were. Kind of forcing christianity on them. So you know Harriet Tubman used to say and Frederick Douglass said the two went when they were singing these Blacksburg -- kind of know cocaine and no Ken and me but it does retain and or. Go down Moses weed -- need to plan. Tell pharaoh let my people go. The white overseers thought that they were worshipping in -- the white god. Whereas what they were doing was sending coded messages to one another that oh conductors coming although some of leaving them underground railroad on Tuesday the spiritual and -- Moses was really called the national anthem of slaves kind of sending this dual message."

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" Poems and -- version of go down Moses we can tell you the most impact on America with Bruce -- his new book America's prophet Moses in the American story. As -- said Moses was a couple from the Bible. Before that he could be at times harsh leader and some say -- note of American exceptional -- them. But after hearing now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide on the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to a conversation -- Bruce filer about his fascinating new book America's prophet Moses and the American story. Abraham Lincoln was compared to Moses after he was assassinated another great leader who didn't make it to the promised land. The statue of liberty is almost a physical Moses splitting the lottery in New York Harbor Woodrow Wilson we just mentioned. Hailed as a Moses for his efforts to bring the world together in little League of Nations FDR compared to Moses leading Europe and fascism. Spyware will. The American relationship with the most his narrative start to change. You say most Americans don't even know that the words of love Atticus are on the liberty -- clean. From their biblical story when."

" That starts to happen. Bible begins to decline in influence after the civil war and secular language beacons to take over but having said that I do believe though that most has becomes a kind of representation of America -- to -- 1956 the ten commandments which is the fifth highest grossing movie of all time. With the -- does is really turn Moses into a kind of icon of the American century did -- stood up on the screen. In the beginning of the movie and said this is a movie about tyranny and about to live under a dictator you can't worship a god and you should live. 300 God's law. Basically declaring it to be a movie about the Cold War and the last shot in the movie Charlton Heston. He hands over the book of life to Joshua and then he quotes the liberty -- he says proclaim liberty throughout the world into all of inhabitants thereof. That don't come on up part of the story it comes from much are holier. But Demille knew it was an American icon and then. Testing climbs up to the top of the mountain raises his -- in an exact tableau of the statue of liberty as if to say. This is America. Enlightening the world so at that point you know that the story is no longer. Really religious story in a lot of ways it is a story about how people can come from the -- restricted place. Can be oppressed can have challenged and can still overcoming and perhaps I think what happens to the story. In effect becomes. The secular story so that. George Bush can tell me -- an Oval Office that he was inspired to run for the White House because he was a starter. -- sermon at the second inaugural in Texas and if he could be a leader it's not a biblical prophecy at that point it is a story of the American entering."

" Will or is there not a way of looking -- it in your view. This is at this point the most storied changed from -- and inspirational story to one that's been co opted. Eaten up for different -- is because you like that there are this -- certain time in American history. Where he -- to be careful the most story isn't seen as one of exceptional listen. We are the chosen people you know not the American Indians or is -- that gay people in America at a certain point. Is that a danger of the most story."

" I certainly think that this story has been used for. American except with them for a America's drop in the world is to spread freedom effort I do think that that is a danger. Of the story and its national I've been in danger of the story. But I think more often. It's more common use is for people to claim -- stake in America -- you mentioned it to liberty bell and of itself it's a fascinating thing. Which is it originally was called the liberty and had this quote with liberty on a it was hanging in independence hall I climbed a bell tower as you know. Where -- hung on July 4 but it wasn't called the liberty bell really until the abolitionist said wait a minute. We should go back to the values of liberty on the liberty bell to let the slaves go free later women Houston called it yum to -- Bellamy took it meets accounts have been worse -- the United States a hundred years ago. Change the clapper to decide about. Of the cast of the balance at you know when -- missed it again not that it had been wrong and -- hundred years but -- we're monitoring and again out of the women can have the right to vote. Then gazed at it they -- and used it when bear of Soviet jewelry so generation after generation of repressed Americans has gone back to this story to claim their state so yes. There is a downside of the story but I think the much bigger effect and power of the story. Is that it embodies. Really the higher values of America 36. Times. 36 times. The five books of -- say. Remember this stranger because you yourselves were strangers once in the land the chip it is a reminder that there is higher America affair -- deeper moral sense that we should. Up from where it is that passage in the liberty bell come from the VATICAN as. In what's called the holiness code which says nurture the pork up uplift that hurt and didn't take the suffering into your arms."

" Well and before that you'd go oh without in my money each approximately one of the most powerful implications of Moses in modern times and that's Martin Luther King's. The speech he delivered in Memphis the night before he died in 1968. Let's listen to the end of that speech."

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" And I've seen. The promised land."

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" He looks very powerful. He has that it is a lesson about. You should take chances you should stand up to authority he should plunged through the -- the quarters he should persevere through the -- highness. But you shouldn't be upset if in the end your dream fall short because most of the -- fall short in the ultimate lesson of the leader. Is that the true destination is not this year at all. As the passover service says its next year invested true lesson. A Martin Luther King which is that the leader the true role of the leader is not to get himself to the promised land and it's for us to get there even without the leader."

" Who's finally his new book is America's profit Moses and he Americans doing. -- is always products such pleasure thank you very much. OK time for quick look ahead Monday and here now is Starbucks the ultimate American success story or a sign of what ails America Online. Still ahead today's historian from Massachusetts mom who buried her son after he was killed in action -- And now wants to have a lot changed so that she can be buried in -- cemetery alongside him some day. And captains here now."

" Gay rights are front and center yesterday the house passed a bill to make it a federal crime to assault people because of their sexual orientation. President Obama nominated an openly gay ambassador to New Zealand and Samoa. But tomorrow when he gives a speech to the nation's largest gay rights group the Human Rights Campaign. He's expected to face protests from activists that he's not delivering on promises to repeal the don't ask don't tell policy on gays in the military. Or overturn the defense of marriage act which defines marriage as between a man and woman. Michael shear is White House correspondent for the Washington Post Michael senate majority leader Harry Reid has been pressing the president for a statement on don't ask don't tell the White House saying. It's got too much on its plate do you think that's going to change."

" Whether that would going to be pressured I mean I think you have seen since the beginning of the administration -- real frustration. That in the in the gay and lesbian community that the president -- All sorts of promises during the campaign that we promised from the moon saying that he's going to. Take -- action on their agenda and of course he's done some things in the White House is quick to point out that he has but he certainly not. Made any serious progress on the big issues that you mentioned."

" how against the divide in the gay community on Obama's record because you have the head of the HRC a Human Rights Campaign. Saying he's honored to share the evening with -- Obama but you've got openly gay journalist Andrew Sullivan. Who criticizes that group as the big gay lobby it can't get laws passed. And also says the president should spare us the schmoozing in the sweet talking and take actions -- within the gay community. There's divide."

" Yes absolutely I mean this summer for example the president called number of key leaders to a White House ceremony in the east room. When he signed an executive order to accept some of benefits. And there was the same kind of divide there there were people who said look you know where else are we gonna turn in there were others who --"

" Well as you said that he extended to benefits for partners of federal workers but what are the defense of marriage act -- the Obama Justice Department has said they will defended their claiming. It's not their jobs doing about it congress has to pass legislation."

" Right you know that gets into that one of those wonderful Washington stories where you know that the administration has they're very much in favor of getting rid of -- these administration's -- legal department that says until. That happens they're sort of bound to defend it that was really one of the things that has angered the gay community was when the in the Obama's legal counsel. That -- we were gonna defend it thinks that's one of those pieces of legislation of its gonna take a political capital it's gonna take. Time and effort on -- on the president's. Agenda and right now it's just not higher up on it and."

" Well the house did pass that bill that was attached to a spending bill to extend hate crimes to cover gays. That failed in the past but next week the cynic could approve it Obama is expected to sign it. Republicans say they are dead set against it they call -- crimes legislation. And they also got some protection in the bill for conservative pastors who might preach against homosexuality they. They don't want to do later be held responsible if there is a violent act. Why are Republicans so against it."

" There is certain group media Republicans who have you know concerned about the underlying. Issue of -- homosexuality. A -- you have the sort of more libertarian concerns about you know if you commit an act. But punished the behavior inducted into the question of of motivation why he committed the act. You know that the legislation I think is gonna have a much better chance that it has -- because the president has said he will eagerly sign it. Which is certainly different for the past eight years when the bush White House made clear that it would not."

" We'll -- you speak of the different Republican strands what are the one represented by Virginia Foxx a Republican in North Carolina. Represented a fox does and believes that that well known hate crime had anything to do with Matthew shepard's sexuality used part of which -- on the floor of the house."

" The hate crimes bill it's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after. Very unfortunate incident that happened. Where a young man was killed. But we know. That that young man was killed. And they and the commitment of a robbery it wants it because he was gay Michael is that feeling widespread."

" My guess is that it's not you know there's a particular strand of politics in America I mean the homosexuality the quest for rights and recognition. Has been a particularly. Touchy and sensitive issue in American politics over the last few decades and so you know you take -- piece of legislation that's already. Fraught with intense feelings on both sides and you you've put into the mix. Another very volatile issue. Of sexual orientation and it's destined to -- a real parts."

" Michael -- White House correspondent for the Washington Post thanks so much it. Okay will be back in thirty seconds here and now."

" In Pakistan there's growing concern that the militant threat may be extending deep into the country far beyond the tribal region along the Afghan border. Extremist groups linked to al-Qaeda are believed to be making inroads in Punjab. Pakistan's most prosperous province the ABCs or early Garrett reports from southern Punjab."

" Stretched out before me on the lush green fields of southern Punjab. I -- corn and sugar cane and culture and that's growing waistline. But the landscape here is changing there are fears this is becoming fertile ground for militant groups. Including those with links to al-Qaeda. One cause of concern and use six Acre compound near the remote town of the -- for. We were the first journalist to be -- in."

" We've just entered the compound. It looks pretty fair doesn't expensive -- in front of me. At the box I concede Catholic sheds the police chief bush tax Kerry is with me. What do you believe is happening here."

" We can TI said. -- it is -- you can -- Tom and -- fault this is this and aren't being used what I need your idea talking inferences."

" Officially it is a farm. Unofficially a security source has told us it was intended to be a training ground. For the banned militant group objection homage."

" Here in the house floor under cross southern Punjab that the label food for the militants to exploit. The region is teaming with -- young men who help themselves because no prospects. So there's plenty of despair. There's plenty of religious extremism. And there are fears that this region would become a major militant nursery."

" This. Yes for now she's lost her how to best friend mr. rely on the -- he has been dark and -- this product can also has one year -- And this -- He lost. And."

" Old -- of the homeless and the bereaved. Victims of a blast in July which consumed half of village and claimed seventeen lives. The explosives were being stored by a respected school teacher. Locals told us they never thought terror would reached they're trying -- by -- quarter."

" Tag that -- queen. Kemp was we just appreciate you -- bombs in the months of the country if they absolutely rightly mention what I don't let them know we know -- there's there is a threat to us to show but that it W embodied the Martin."

" I'm on my way to the symmetry with the bereaved father. I'm -- Rus X times was right beside the cost he lost three of his four children. We're going to their graves as he does every day."

" Didn't damage that would let us in Newfoundland of -- who -- I collapsed Minnesota's -- people but other than lived for a few moments. And install -- Indian man we got my book throughout development."

" It was -- without the band but we got access to the man who admits he's to blame. For legal reasons we counseling and he's linked to militants fighting in Afghanistan. And he claims he sorry for the loss of innocent life."

" And that bloggers Michelle and I'll be out by who will take your hook up -- that bridge to Gloria these. And -- beg for forgiveness from if people infected altogether. I created in the days -- rest in peace included. And I knew what would happen but I would never have -- experts have Steve and I suggest that we can do it."

" But would you have been happy if you're exposed those kill British and American forces in Afghanistan. I'm out of being really happy if -- chance in the future I would go and fight the British and the Americans. But instead of attacking foreign troops he sent his own neighbors to their graves militancy is gaining ground in Punjab. Britain and America will be hoping that Pakistan -- early to this threat."

" The BBC's early Daryn well from southern Punjab in Pakistan -- gonna shift to Mansfield Massachusetts and the story of Denise Anderson. She buried her 21 year old son army specialist -- last year in the national veterans cemetery in born Massachusetts. After he was killed in Iraq and now she's waging a campaign so that someday she can be buried alongside him. According to federal law only the spouse or minor child of fallen service member can be buried in the military cemetery. But specialists -- wasn't married he has three more plots. And Denise Andersen once one of them he testified on capitol yesterday after petitioning their congressman Massachusetts representative Barney Frank. Who's introduced a bill to change the law -- joins us on the line and first of we are so sorry for lots."

" Thank you aren't you publishers thinking why you wanna be there. Can't even --"

" Any sacrifices life for his country. And I'm sacrificing every day every time I get up in the morning without him knowing where he is. And -- always been my I. He's not out there in the world as to react."

" Well and you -- were particularly close to a single parents who he was eight. Yeah you receive no child support and you worked sixty hours a week you had such a close bond with your son."

" I did it led to a lot together and allies and -- he had dyslexia. -- quiet would be the first point to help anybody in the big EB it'll out going to ask for help. So college was saying his gains after he dropped out of college. You don't like to do so he just decided to do in the hand me. And he he'd take pride. Light. I didn't wanna Berrian got Arlington national cemetery because that Mr. -- and need to -- this AM midnight I coliseum like tootsie retarded that we."

" You go see an inborn. Cool. Some would say what about you learn lovely husband and your daughter we do you want them to come in the united."

" you know knock on -- not -- happen in my daughter she is getting have her own children. Her -- has stated Mike that they have a chance to have asked him money I listened intently and I decided it was concerns. And discipline helped me bowl full weight I mean it's -- about spending years now. And that they can stag okay. They agree and I think not since like 4 o'clock in the morning write letters to congressmen senators."

" Well what do you think people who saying we have to draw the line it's reserved for. Those troops who made that ultimate sacrifice."

" I -- nine asking if at this definitely have sixteen people I'm asking for the parents. They deserve to be buried that this child. And it it confidence needs -- to bury your own sign away your grown child. Did happen that we I have to live with every day of my life."

" That's Denise Anderson mother of army specialist -- who was killed in Iraq in 2008. Again petitioning congress to to be buried alongside her son being born Massachusetts. National veterans cemetery there. Denise thank you so much for speaking here."

" Robin thank. So -- may I appreciated."

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" Support for here and now comes in part from the school foundation supporting social entrepreneurs around the world. Uncommon heroes dedicated to the common good. Learn more at school dot org."

" Welcome back and a severe Smith loans difficult topics. In her show fires in the mirror she explored the tensions between blacks and Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn. In twilight Los Angeles 1992. She channeled the different voices in Los Angeles after the Rodney King trial. There part of her work in progress on the road a search for American character. In which she finds an interviews people then brings their words and mannerisms to the stage. Her latest just opened to great reviews in New York it's called let me down easy and in it she takes on no less than the frailty of the human body in the strength of the spirit. Channeling genocide experts Samantha Power Harvard chaplain Peter Gomes genocide survivors in London. And -- a patient being treated for cancer whose records are lost until she tells the young resident she's also the dean of the medical school."

" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah all I am Stallone I'm okay now I've got it yet."

" And it did you Smith as -- cats in the let me down easy which had a try and last year at the American rep Peter here in Cambridge Massachusetts. The project was born when -- of -- physician Ralph Horowitz asked and it to interview doctors and patients about illness. I asked her what was her first response to that. I really dodged the project. Until he kind of said to me what you. Afraid of and I I said I was free to make it for myself from doctors -- idea what I would do these interviews and then I would perform at medical grand rounds which is pretty. High powered lecture. But I really think what was making me more nervous was just. That I knew given the kind of work that I do. This would call for me to really inhabit or have illness and mortality and handed me and that wasn't attractive to me first I think I was afraid it."

" EEC you're afraid to inhabit the illness but over the course of the peace you are someone who's lived through genocide you or someone who's seen murder I mean contest that -- in the well you know the."

" Fact is that it's really what my worker our work as actors. It is is to inhabit all aspects of the human condition. Some of the stories that inhabit -- stories of things that are very very worrisome. But it doesn't drag me down it's the opposite I actually finding figuring you know kind of a way because along with all of that sobering news. The play has good news about. The resilience of the human spirit you also came in touch with former Texas governor Ann Richards. Who combines everything you've just been talking about spirit illness. She as we know suffered cancer and that's when you. Met with her I met with her when she was it MD Anderson hospital in Houston being treated for -- GO cancer. -- he here now can we and the you know scenario -- one of the things she talks about this idea of the spirit for and she says you know."

" And the first person in the world. With esophageal cancer. Have this combination. A proton therapy and chemotherapy at the same time. My daughter Allen. Has managed this hall the army so I don't have used up my act she knew and that will that's what. -- Asher laugh. It's and you have to say that can't beat this physical thing that yeah."

" She's just had a way with words away with a life a way of understanding the -- I'm thinking of all the people that we meet who's been shown UN and spoke to all of them so you're in the -- Wanda. Going to rewind and you asked me earlier having charity -- I imagine it's about thirty in the -- somewhere between 25 and thirty. I went to over one. Ten years after the genocide. Really the recommendation of my friend Samantha Power who -- well known here in in the Cambridge and Boston area. And you know because the play was about the human body in its its resilience and she's that we you know -- anybody can got to wonder. So I went and I interviewed. People who were victims of the genocide he -- People who were perpetrators. One thing that has haunted me for a long time is one of the actually was my my translator. Who told me. That there's documented evidence Skype sets analysts that. -- to politicians calling alone. Hutus to go out and have the chance to see wouldn't that -- woman was like. Those are some beef and run -- two women -- what what printed in who to count the path and this of costs encourage the red. Mastering it everywhere it was having instant every minute she's ten to have access to what most people had already -- to be -- special. Sucked out of of of possession it was agreements tend to have access to that too that if it's as faces. Like they already seeing this increase in London that there are only saying it to. Watches a Swiss. Cousin judgment and women -- That phrase just haunted me for a -- That race watches -- Smith's. John and and women to its. And let me. Because of so. The overriding idea of Greece. Where did that come from in honesty my good friend. Mike Nichols came to see my show in in New Haven, Connecticut filmmaker has -- and director and these are displaced -- kindness. And that version of the plane had a lot of athletes I mean had you lance Armstrong's supermodel Veronica Webb -- that it had. People who are well known for. What a study what they can do with the body and so was a lot about -- physical prowess as well. And and he said to me that the place about kindness that I thought about the last character in the play who's the woman who. A man in Johannesburg South African who has an orphanage for children who are dying of aids in whose parents are dead. And I think she exemplifies human kindness in the way that she talks about taking care of these children who are sick. And so. I then thought about grace as an extension of kindness. Because what she kills you ultimately it's a real kick in the gut needs is and a is don't even in the dark. To beef from let them know that their guy and let them know what's happening to him. Unbeaten -- it or Peter Gomes says also I think it's so beautiful how he puts it that. In the hospitals you know that as soon as it looks like it's coming to the end of life the medical people leave because they don't stick around for the moment of expiration. But that one of the most important things you can do for somebody is to be with them when they -- So. I think that there is grace and elegance and appreciation of the richness of life would. When we can when we can do that in this woman does and through life prompt. It's phenomenal and inducement for journalists and increased to con you I consider myself -- really in the student of real life. And two. Study particularly. Linguistic and behavior in the physical behavior of people to see what that teaches me about. About them and about us and to take a person's words my grandfather sent me when I was a girl if you say a word often enough it becomes -- and I grew up in a racially divided. City and I think part of what I've been trying to do in in these years with my on the road to search for American character project. Is to embody. All Americans without the sense that. I could only be what I -- which is a five foot ten African American woman. And now that work has expanded into the world there are ways to into the experience in the person in my case it's in their words."

" Energy -- Smith in our studios last year when her show let me down easy had an out of town trial here in Boston it opened. This week at the second stage theater. In New York here and now most of protection of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI. I'm Robin Young have a wonderful weekend and please join us again here and now."