Title: Podcast: "Communications Forum: Race, Politics, and American Media"

" This is innocent -- podcast -- October. I'm Andrew and communications and you can hear -- media says it's."

" It's podcast comes first imaging communications it's faster race politics and American news. New look Juan Williams and actually on Fox News minute conversation four -- new data storage. I was assistant professor of urban politics it's. And is planning and in nineteen. -- through western literature and director news anymore."

" My name is Amy -- said I'm the coordinator of technology and culture forum at MIT and the episcopal chaplain at MIT. And it's my great pleasure to welcome you to this afternoon's event. Technology and culture forum as one of the three sponsors of this event the other two are the communications forum at MIT. And the center for future civic media and MIT. It's a great pleasure to be working alongside those two groups on this about -- it turns out is the third in a three part series. Which began over a year ago. Last -- we did two forms together. Both of them were about media and the elections. The first centered on traditional media and it's wrong elections and the second was on new media. And both of those were wonderful lively discussions where we heard lots of views on a really important issue. So this forum and has been sort of a long time in the Genesis. But I'm glad that it took awhile to come together because things have gotten even more interesting. And the landscape has gotten even more complex and there's. Infinitely more even now to talk about regarding race and politics in the media. We're very fortunate this evening to have to tremendous people with us to help us. Take a look at this topic and begins I get a sense of what's going on and why. So without much more introduction. I want to. Asking you to get around it applies side and to our moderator for this evening's conversation. David -- Byrne is the director of the communications form at MIT and a professor of literature and MIT. And he's going to introduce our two speakers and help moderate the conversations evening so. Without let's give around classic David."

" Thank you very much -- What. One of the joys of collaborating with various outfits at MIT is are the kinds of connections you make and I I always think of Amy as the spiritual adviser to the to the communications forum."

" And in church where. Solution. Great pleasure to so. -- communication problem. In which reversals of engaging conversation but for our physician who is crucial role always. My. You can. And answer session New York yeah sure we'll."

" Sharpen your tongs and we will give all of you plenty of time to interact with the speakers. Let me briefly introduce our speakers today. To my -- to might. Far right is Mike -- colleague. MIT. And most -- and the author most recently of a book entitled double trouble black mayors black communities. And the search for a deep democracy. And of the freeze deep democracy. When when when when Philip and I were in conversations about this forum and there were some folks we were trying to get to join us that we were unable to. I called him at one point he called me at one point two singles someone that we hope to get wasn't available. And in the middle conversation at what we're working on the conversation said listen I can't talk for too long now because I'm preparing congressional testimony and -- appearing tomorrow morning so leave me alone. I hope your testimony was successful -- but it but it's a mark of the influence that his his work has had. That he is. Who regularly involved in such a significant. A work -- non scholarly work as Willis -- significant scholarship. I suppose in some degree all of you know Juan Williams is. So I won't take too long introducing him but I do wanna mention a couple of things. As most of you know he's the senior correspondent for national public radio and a political analysts for the Fox News Channel. He's a regular panelist on the weekly news affairs program FOX News Sunday and a a regular on the O'Reilly Factor. Perhaps his most problematic job some of us feel. One Williams began his professional career. At the Washington Post and and worked at the Washington Post in a variety of capacities for over 23 years. He served as an editorial writer and Op Ed columnist. And the white -- White House correspondent and national correspondent. What is less widely known about him mobile people who pay attention to the best seller list might realize this is that he's also a prolific writer. And among his books is a biography of Thurgood Marshall that was recently re released in with an updated epilogue in 2008. He's the author of the essays in a book of photographs. -- and essays titled black farmers in America. And the photographs are by John fight cholera. And that was published in 2006. And capitalist oldest titles because he's more prolific than most tenured professors. But I do wanna mention one other important book that many -- you heard of he's the author of the book eyes on the prize America's civil rights years. 1940 to 54 to 65. A companion volume to the television series that many of movement many of you may have heard of and he's published to go a range of other. Books on -- on aspects of the black experience and he's he's especially well qualified. Not just because of his experience as a journalist but because of his work as a writer. To address the kinds of broad questions were going to be talking about today's forum. With those introductions behind us let me begin by asking. Juan Williams to talk a bit about. Given his long career as a journalist about the ways in which he thinks the world of journalism as. If it has opened more fully to minorities and especially to African Americans when when one reflects on -- I mean that the fact is that he's an immensely prominent and influential journalist. Thirty years ago it would be very unlikely that that that an African American would occupy the kind of distinguished. Position that. Mr. Williams occupies an American society today and -- with what we might begin one by asking you to talk a bit about your own experiences coming up as a journalist and how you think the world of journalism question."

" Our professors or her career. Person -- thank you for joining me and I appreciate the invitation to be with Soviet and I look forward to the interactive part of this session with the audience going back and forth -- You know for me getting out of Washington and being in touch with -- all of you here. Is a real pleasure. It's really is a pleasure to be around people who have good question serious questions important dialogue so thank you all for coming. I guess I would start off by making a sort of a biographical answer. And say that in my mom. Used to -- come home on this off the subway in new York and we lived in Brooklyn. And she worked as a garment worker in lower Manhattan and so she would bring me newspapers as a child. On newspapers that were left on the subways by businessman even some newspapers that were left by businessmen going over New Jersey sites in the New Jersey papers as wells in New York City papers. And we're talking here about 1960s. And so we're talking about a time -- New York City had. Seven I believe seven newspapers unlike today you think of your New Yorkers think of New York Times and your post you're doing news. Then you had just a plethora. Titles herald world telegram. Journal American all of us are at work and for me one of the great pleasure is. Being a kid at that time for me was. Baseball and I used to read. Different sports writers in different publications and compare them and think well this guy got in the locker -- he knows what he's talking about this guy looks like he was -- a fight with his -- he doesn't -- he didn't even understand the key point in the game and so for me this was like. Why wouldn't it be great to be a journalist you know you get a ticket to the game you get inside the action to an opportunity to. Help people to properly. Export Kate. What seems to be just entertainment and actually as a matter of skill and strategy and and and."

" And passing game now. Part of this then this experience was noticing of course if there were no people of color. Telling these stories. There were banned. Just coming into the picture. This was after the years of Jackie Robinson obviously it. Just coming into the picture where more players of color no managers of car obviously -- owners of color and certainly no newspaper. Publishers of color. It's what struck me in this mix was the absence. The only time that I would see read or hear about a journalists of color was when I saw copy of the Amsterdam news which was published in -- And then sometimes on Sundays. There would be right gay community affairs program. That would occur. On some other channels and it would be with the black holes than they would seem to be paying attention to issues of concern to the black community. But. For the most part it was sort of a fantasy of mine to think well you know how could I break through now I was the editor of my junior high school paper editor my high school paper. I worked when I went off to a prep school I worked as a journalist covering things like. NAACP. Meetings or issues in the black community because they didn't have any reporters who went into the black part of Poughkeepsie New York. And so I didn't play. Football or anything like that occasion I would go off and they wouldn't pay me for doing stories but they would give me a byline and for me. That was worth more than the money I was just thrilled to go out and be able to write a story that would end up in the local paper. And then when I went off to college -- whatever for college in Pennsylvania. And so the first year I did not work on the paper because I was concerned about meeting the academic requirements. Of that institution. And but that summarize applied. To work at the big city paper which was then. An afternoon daily call the Philadelphia evening bulletin that was the biggest paper in the city at that time and again it's just telling us we sit here in 2009 we don't have afternoon papers in the United States that they. But imagine in this city. Philadelphia. Them from just might still be -- about the fourth biggest city in the country the biggest papers the afternoon paper. And and I apply for a job there. And didn't just sent recommendations and clips from my work it elsewhere."

" And did not put my age -- picture and got the intern ship and I remember when I showed up I of course I was the only internal color. And I was younger than most interns who were -- graduate students or seniors and college. And I remember that managing editor where he came in to meet with -- us. Called me out of the room and said which one are you. And how old are you and I said who was then that I was nineteen years electric I was eighteen actually. And he said. Something with a one of these things these lines to get seared into your memory he said to me this is not a babysitting operation. And you lied to us. About your -- said analyzed and put it in there. And you've been asked me to leave. But it turns out there were people that have referred who knew people who worked as journalists that this. Publication and they call back -- original paper that kid you know as summer housing here you hired him you when you give me a chance. And so they gave me a job for two weeks and that the deal was we'll give me trapped for two weeks and then the issue was never raised again and I finish that summer. Then they hired me to work two days a week during the old school years a sophomore. And then they hired me the next summer. And then they hired me again three days during the week for my. Junior year and I got a Dow Jones newspaper fund intern ship and went to work with the Providence journal in Rhode Island and again. Just to come back to your theme. There were some black journalists very few in number. At the Philadelphia. Bulletin. I can think of one woman who was on the city desk who was like to me the black Brenda Starr at the time. And then there was a very good boxing. Writer. In the sports department but that was it. And at the Providence journal there were -- So. For me it often felt as if you know remember. At this time had a big fro them look like that's -- I had a big fro. I'm skinny as -- read I often come in with purple cons on. You know I look like a a day in the life you know the big pro and the scanning this and I remember you know like people and fill it out because of one point during. -- in my stance there I was being number two guy at city hall and remember Frank Rizzo and -- you know when people looked. Police department they just had no concept how to deal with the black journalist. You know especially when that was young and had this big Afro was asking all these questions just had never dealt with -- anybody of color in the position to tell the story. And to hold them to account in that fashion. And it made for an interest intention again that made it very clear to me. That they were I -- as threatened is the word that comes to mind I think threatened is too strong a word but that for them it was a shifting. Of relationship. To a person of color. And -- in and that they were going to. They could not. They had to expect that there were questions that we're going to be forthcoming that they had not dealt with before since the person with a -- Was a person of color and scores that got back to management. What had to make sometimes difficult decisions. So. And then after that and I got an internship at the Washington Post. And the person who selected me for that intern ship it turns out was a black. City editor. And that black city editor was close to the man who at the time. Was the prince of the Washington Post men and Don Graham who went on to -- the publisher of the paper his mother capture program obviously was the publisher at that time. But they had both gone to Harvard they both worked in Vietnam. And that's how herb had made his way to her again this -- and made his way to the Washington Post. And then her was someone who was looking for promising journalists of color to bring into this institution. And and I was the lucky benefactor beneficiary. Is. Decision to bring me on and and Gasquet was a difficult time in the history of the post because. Right after the riots. And the assassination of doctor king in 68."

" The post and I think other major American institutions had a wave of black journalists. Com. And they they brought them in realizing that there had been such rank discrimination and that they just looked. Out of touch and they were unable to properly cover minority communities in crisis. Or what happened was. Or if it's so telling oftentimes those journalists were not given by airlines or not. Put in charge of writing they were sent out to do this to gather information going to these minority communities where white journalists might feel threatened or uncomfortable. And then they would feeding information back to the white journalist who would write the stories. And the black journalists felt they weren't moving up or being promoted in these newsrooms and then they have filed a lawsuit -- at the Washington Post against management. And that her with her my mentor had been outside of that. Group until he was being you know there was tension among the black journalist. Over this kind of issue. And then I come now along after graduating from Hereford and 76. And I'm sort of a second wave. A black journalists coming in and herb is looking for people who have had. Substantial experience in training as journalists. So that they will be in position to move. And to compete more successfully against their white peers in the newsroom. And to really blow. Past some of these barriers. So that's the situation I come into and of course I come into. Washington DC. A city that is predominantly black. And a city going through all sorts power struggles of its own over its relationship to the federal government. So. This is I think I feel like has spoken to on here someone to stop but it but that's. Sort. That's the basin. My where the roots of my experience of my growth as an American journalist."

" One thing that strikes me from the from the counter giving it's almost it is that is -- could. That'll cliche from marks about when history repeats itself between a second time it's force what it. That because if you what you're describing the way sounds like something more contemporary where that where where. In which. A situation in which. Various news organizations become terribly uneasy about hearing about the inadequate way in which -- covering racial materials. And they want and one of the things I was thinking about was I hope some of you noticed this because -- very obvious to me right after Obama's election. Many more African American face started to appear as television anchors. At all at and no one said anything about it none of the networks acknowledge what they were doing but it seems to me as if it was a sort of reenactment of what you described in which. In which the sort of established authorities became so uneasy about the ways in which they were sort of failing to cover things that that. That they they they did this sort of reach out and I'm wondering if -- Well and let me pose the question in a broader way that has to do with the way we formulated -- argument for this forum. You may require all the good that the basic description of this forum is this goes like this the election of an African American president in. 2008. Has been hailed as a transforming event but has Obama's ascension transforms any thing. Many people's answer to that question changed in the summer win. Skip gates was arrested at his home in Cambridge. Are the harsh realities of race and class in the United States clearer now -- murky year following the media is tsunami of -- gate. And has this polarizing event given greater visibility. To racial minorities in the media's coverage of politics. Let's begin with whose office."

" Plus it's sort of -- Yes agenda but let me just go to the question. Has this. Brought more voices of color into the picture of the election of President Obama I think the most obvious. Consequence of Obama's election is if you look at the number of commentators of color. I think that has increased I think if you look at. Some of the political discussions especially on cable networks. Notably on CNN I would point to I think you see more faces of color and younger people."

" I certainly represented. And it's interest thing you know at the white has these days you have correspondents there from essence and the like never people who would never have. Had a seat at the table but it's also that they never asked -- that they will now with Obama there I think with the celebrity quotient. You get lots of publications that are. That market to audiences of color wanting."

" To be there at the White House because they realized their readership their audience is fascinated and -- emotionally too. And the doings of the Obama administration. But when you said. You see more anchors. I was wondering were you were looking at because I don't see that -- anchors and the commentators yes I don't see any more anchors of color and even you know I occupy a very. Strange. Terrain in that the Sunday morning talk shows and Washington are pretty much a conversation among. The elite white males. And I'm the only person of color. Who is there every week. My friend Donna Brazil pops up I say once every. Two or three weeks on the ABC program with George Stephanopoulos. Once you know. While. You might see. Michelle Norris -- also within PR or Gene Robinson of the Washington Post columnist pop up on Meet the Press. But in general. It's a conversation. Among older white males. On Sunday mornings which is kind of the time that Washington gets dressed up to address our most influential. Audiences and talk to our most powerful players. And if you. Then go backwards from that and start thinking about things like the nightly news programs. The news they -- in terms of breakthrough is women white women breaking through. Diane Sawyer being the latest but of course Katie Couric few years ago. To join into that elite fraternity but there's no. People there's no people of color. Who present the nightly news is anchors in this country. And when I get involved in conversations about hosting shows and this comes up in my life. I would say almost as if not annual -- you know twice annually. Essentially it always comes down to well is the audience going to relate. To a black male as the lead dog if you will in this conversation. And I tell you the most chilling conversation this time I've ever had. What's with -- an executive at a black cable network. Who said you know. Black men especially. Who would identify with you. Like to watch sports and pornography but we're not convinced they're gonna watch the news. And I said you know that's crazy I can't walk. A block in this country I'm talking about -- block in any neighborhood much -- going to an airport. Or go to the gym."

" Without people saying hey you're Juan Williams and here's what I think and why are you telling what you're saying what I think. And they are just as likely to be. Black man as anybody else. Who seeing -- face that they recognize. From TV or boys that they know is on the radio talking about politics. But again in terms. The game that the executives -- and even executives at. Organizations that are."

" Focused on the minority audience there's just not a belief. That the minority audience is going to respond. To a higher level of political. Discourse in this country I think if you look at. The history of BET for example it's just pretty stark in terms of the absence of news product. And the failure to invest in whose product they -- to me is. His sinful. TV one has had no news product. Even to the point being embarrassed about feeling to cover something like that funeral of Coretta Scott king and other events like that. They're now starting acting just last week or two weeks ago to try to have a Sunday morning program. I used to host a show called America's black form. Which would -- in the early mornings on Saturday and Sunday often in community. Or community service -- figure what that -- has called. And he used to be required by FCC of of broadcasters but that's been done away with but anyway. This program had come out of that era and then I had taken over as host. James Brown who does CBS football was another host it for awhile. And so we waited and do stories -- issues and concerned major newsmakers in the black and Hispanic community. But that show was part now I guess two years ago. And what they did was they wanted to make it more hip hop more celebrity oriented. And they believe that would help that show to move up. The show is just about fallen off the map I think as a result. I don't follow it very closely but it just doesn't have the presence that he used to have. In the marketplace. But the key here again is. To my mind. The failure. Institutions. Major American Media institutions to meet. You know it's the difference between catering to an audience and pandering to an audience. And I think in many cases rather than -- or even raise the standards of news consumption. And relevance of news for the minority community they have chosen to pander. To what I think are the lowest instincts in terms of that community so you have no trouble if you go home tonight. In turning on. Like sex content type productions. But you will have a hell of a time if you're trying to find news content. That is aimed at the minority community. Black Hispanic Asian in the United States."

" Let's let's pursue this idea about a disk the the issue of minority. So -- minority new sources for a moment help will return to sort of questions having to do with. Major media in an -- in a moment but. One of the things that has been argued. Fairly. Urgently by some observers of the we universe of journalism in the United States has been. That. With the decline of newspapers because of the problems about advertising rates in the way in which the if the way in which the Internet has undermined their readership and so many ways and the idea that newspapers are dying. Phenomenon or at least of declining a deeply declining 11 argument has been made that one of the effects of this has been especially bad for minority communities because. The small newspapers. The newspapers and and look at a that are that are aimed at minority communities are suffering even more and more at some of them are going out of business can't find. Can't find finances are -- am wondering whether. What what you're impression is of that problem. Not just with regard to minority newspapers but other forms in which no minority voices can be systematically her. And I hope you'll keep coming in on this --"

" Or are you start a no no this is you're the expert no I'm not -- I was trying to. You know effectively -- the table because I didn't have much to say. -- when it comes to. Smaller journals and obviously I -- I've worked for my experiences with the Washington Post. You know -- you know I do pockets through your time's a Wall Street Journal USA that I work for mainstream white publications. And then of course Fox News and NPR again mainstream. Overwhelmingly in terms of your audience and their leadership white organizations. So I don't have a tremendous wealth of experience in this area. But I can as an observer and as a consumer of this news. When I look at what has come. Minority. Newspapers and minority broadcast. In the country. Here's what I see I see that minority newspapers. Are pretty much. On the edge if not going out of business in terms of the old style here I'm thinking at things like. Amsterdam news that I grew up with or Pittsburgh courier or are Baltimore Afro American -- Washington for Americans. They used to be major voices in their community I mean they used to be the Bible when I do work. Research in terms of historical research. You know I -- have to go to black newspapers. To understand what's going on in terms of movement politics. In terms of life in the black community. Does nothing comparable to my mind you don't until you hit. The brown decision and 54. Even in such Auguste journals as the New York Times you are not getting coverage of the minority community. You know it's it's really tragic to see things like. Obituaries in which people don't even have names but are referred to as. You know aunt Sarah who was I made in mr. David -- home you know. That's that's there that's and that's the reason it would be that. He's a professor at MIT and therefore his servant is being given some. Acknowledgment in our paper today and that would be the only basis her humanity her life. Her family life would be. If not. An after thought secondary. So that moment when you had. Minority newspapers playing such a key role. Was also reflected than. Began to decline should say after 54. And has been going downhill. And downhill even more rapidly. With the emergence of a black middle class in the country in the course of the 1980s. And into the 1990s so much so that. It's for me now you know something that a case I pick up. That Afro American in Washington the Washington and former these are small black oriented newspapers. They do not have the resources. In fact Ben jealous is now head of the NAACP. At one point. Was head of something called and negro news national -- publicist yes association. Is -- an MP it was a used to be NN PUC's of them yet okay but it's changeup and black means -- And his site and he was trying to find some way to revive this group of newspapers by bringing them together. You know sort of economies of scale so that they could benefit through collaboration publishing agreements in the light. But it was very difficult. To try to bring new life into these publications and some of them are still struggling along. But overall. Especially in New York you know Philadelphia. DC. Again an afterthought. Even as the even in the black middle class. Communities. The other part of this though is. That whereas you have. Such a small. Representation in terms of the newspaper work. You had a bigger representation in terms of things like jet magazine ebony. Essence it's a very successful has been very successful publications -- those magazines. That have grown especially grown with the growth of the black middle class in the country. And then you have black radio and black radio has absolutely been thriving I mean you have tremendous success. With people like Tom Joyner Steve Harvey. As morning voices to the black community. And I would say what what's really. Curious to me is if you. Look for black talk show host you can now find them on Sirius and XM. And -- specific bands. Dedicated to that content. It and it may be that one of them you know the old saying from doctor king about how 11 o'clock on Sunday mornings to the most segregated hour in American life. -- people went to church is now I think you might say that when people are tuning in to their talk show host. You may come across again. A world that is almost completely segregated who chooses to listen to the right wing talk show host versus who chooses to listen to black."

" Talks -- I don't think the white community. Has come up with an answer for Limbaugh. You know. Maybe Ed Schultz was now on -- MSNBC might. You know be in the universe they try to air America and the light -- now senator Al Franken tried for awhile. Never quite got it right in the black community black talk show host oftentimes local black talk show hosts are quite. Dominant and influential. I'm thinking here obviously Michael based in who was so key in terms of generating support for the -- six and calling attention to that issue. Getting people to go down to Louisiana the march. Again that's the power of local black radio. As a platform and I don't think that has been in fact I think that has been growing not being deluded. In modern America today."

" So it always expect a whereas reckon you gotta take some of the way. I was gonna pose a question for -- I feel."

" No I agree with that I I would only add that when I was. Growing up I grew up in Philadelphia. The inquirer had a lot of news coverage in Philadelphia Inquirer did come. In there were black journals when I want to college we -- read the black scholar. Which was dialogue amongst black activists secular colleges basically from analyzing all kinds of issues there's nothing like that now. From there was a newspaper out of DC. That we used to recall the African world. Com edited by Milton Coleman. Who I think he ended up at the Washington Post that one time. And it used to cover the debates that we're going on on amongst black students actually in community activists and over pan Africanism Ferriss. Revolutionary nationalism versus cultural nationalism versus. You know all different kinds of views being aired out in the newspapers and we've read this things assiduously. And you don't see anything like so you."

" Anymore -- one implication of our conversation is that the decline of newspapers may be. From certain angles is even more serious for the minority community than it is than it is for them for the majority that there. With with with the exception of these. Of of these -- of this of these radio talk show folks who are who are who are reaching a niche community not the broader community it seems as if there's less coverage of minority affairs less attention to. To. Pressing social problems are having to do with African Americans and minorities generally. Then there had been before and that's my."

" The case I would not put it on the Internet though. I think to decline started before the Internet. You know being torn that the source of the round ends and there was documentary film by Stanley Nelson called soldiers with all sorts about the history of the black press. That I would recommend and one of the things I remember growing up will come from my grandparents they read the black papers. Religiously. And in the film they show blacks sleeping car porters. On trains going to cotton fields in Mississippi where the Chicago. Defender and was illegal. And the porters with throwing off bundles of the newspapers in the cotton fields. And then there were people who knew where the drops work who would pick up the papers and there were a quarter million papers a week being distributed. Throughout the south and that way bomb. And it gave me you know some insight into my grandparents. About why it was the newspaper was just so important to really gives me some insight into the power of journalism at a certain time. Yes it's very interest and there's no equivalent to that in terms of prince. I get has to do with the Digg Reel source is not so much the Internet but the decline of Princeton junior well I I think. For them the newspaper -- where you've got really vital information about how the community is gonna advance or what's happening. To the community and in other places and something one says. That was interesting to me is. That the black middle class. May be doesn't need -- Or it real -- I didn't wanna get any information. From other sources to unsatisfied as needs war. Traps it is. Perhaps there's a need for newspapers that address. Communities that are not middle class that have particular needs. But don't feel than any black papers speaking directly to them. Com about their needs. And that may be another source of thumb. Declining interest."

" Plug for you know what's. Take the Washington Post for example."

" Again you're talking about a local city that's predominately black recourse vote the paper serves. The region and especially those white suburbs that's where the bulk of circulation has to be found. But that intercity is clearly. Mostly black. And that newspaper. Covers. News in the black community. Obviously local and that was. But in terms even national controversies for example. You wouldn't have to find a black newspaper. Over the last few days to have read about -- Albert. Sixteen year old who was beaten to death in Chicago. You don't have to go to a black publication to get this now. In the 1950s. And and free. Before the fifties you would have had to go to a black publication here about a black child dying even if it was a virus particularly violent death. But now in big city newspapers you'll get that coverage as you know a crisis situation obviously if you have a black president you're gonna get coverage of the president. You don't have to go to a specialty. Publication in terms of minority racial. Interest that's in. The big city paper and again. If they're serving a population such as the population in Washington DC. And they are trying to -- circulation. In any way they can't they be foolish not to include this content. But as I think you see it in the New York Times you see it USA today it's there. And again this is a departure and for this generation here and the artist and I. You might think well gosh I mean there was a time when they wouldn't -- America's yes and not too far in advance."

" But I -- that worked in the politics were about ten years and you know the year if hearing a lot of coverage now about Charlie Rangel and his house in the Dominican Republic and things like that. And that's being covered in you know that that everywhere. Within the within a column. There's been a lot of criticism for Charlie Rangel not about things like that. -- but about what his prominence. In congress. Has not meant. Bomb for local residents and that's the kind of thing that at one time in history you find a lot of back and forth in things like the black scholar or things like local papers. In in the Amsterdam news used to have more reporters who covered these sorts of opinions no one knows let. Bombed ahead of Johnson houses whose public housing project Denise column headed to residents association thinks about Charlie Rangel. That's not in the New York Times that's not the daily news it's nowhere. And but in the community. That's a real issue. And so I think there is that there's been a change. It's true you will read about. A shooting up -- or a kid being killed in high school in. You know a mainstream newspaper you read about Charlie Rangel and as financial problems in the Dominican Republic. Now bomb but the voice of the community in the debates that I heard all the time well working in politics and if I don't see in this."

" Actress. It's do you think it's possible that if it doesn't exist now that this these kinds of forces might reemerge. -- partly reemerged as one suggests in talk radio. But do you think they might reemerge on the Internet that there are way that that that there's that there might be. Ways that that that that these community voices could aggregate and in many ways they haven't yet done but the thing but that might be possible it seems theoretically the case that your work but. -- I guess part of the problem has -- has to do with access to the net and how how often people. Have the habit of going onto it and using it that way but it would seem. The people would argue that what to do that some of what traditional newspapers had done. Is migrating. -- aliens in inadequate -- in art fashion to the these communal voices aren't there yet."

" Oh I'll start this I think there are a lot of possibilities. That have not been realized. And the Internet being an example and there's some legal barriers but I I think. There's some mindset barriers and out and give you an example."

" I used to be in charge of management for New York City public housing. And about five years ago I got a call. From someone who works for IBM. Who told me that video city housing authority. Was. From installing fiber optic cable to that every single bomb unit of housing. In in the housing authority and in New York which is to a 2000 units about 600000 people. Reached and the optic cable would. Not only carry the security you know video bomb stream that so they could buzz and people into the buildings but that we carry cable -- As well as the Internet and everything else. And the -- IBM was bidding for the contract to install the fiber optics but they ask me. Why aren't the residents know it. Organizing since they already have a -- associations citywide. Why aren't they forcing the information carriers Time Warner and others to compete. Over the contract for who's gonna provide. That information for 200000. Households. And we had some students here at the time Randal Pinkett who. Then went on the apprentice and one and so the job this project but for a while. He was working on this and he did a study any estimated that some agreement that contract might be worth about thirty to fifty million a year. For the residents association so what we then began talking to the residents while we could have our you can have your own show. You can have your on this program for public housing people will want to come when you program politicians and others you know you can do a lot of things with this. Bomb and with thirty million dollars a -- talking about real quality. You know we're not talking about what we see you know the sixth grade class in their annual glee club or whatever but talking about real quality you can do this. Point being there are opportunities. To use media creatively. To do things I believe that some. Community's really all right there's not like a movement. Bombing and there isn't we aren't even educating our students here. Who could be doing these things to actually. Take advantage of these kinds of opportunities bomb that exist. So yes I think it's largely theoretical at this point second thing -- let's say is this. There's a class divide. In Black America now that's. Different and they have always been class divides but it's different. And I'm not sure. How this is gonna be mediated and I just think we can't talk about black Americans like is one group. And I are just gonna give them a personal example. Com since you talked about you hit your biography had just an I've I've published this book in 2006. And it's an academic book. Bomb and I have a cousin younger cousin I'm from Philadelphia the younger cousin who's say -- criminal and she runs a successful criminal enterprise. -- sees a lot younger than me and bomb she it's she center causing Richardson to. She does a much nicer car -- She set herself to Temple University. Pay for a self. And she said film nobody was offering scholarships when I. Was China go to college you log on scholarship there -- no such things so don't judge me. You know I -- this is how I did it and this in 2006 the same time I published my book she published a and out of -- criminal enterprise bomb she started a publishing company. And she publishes other criminals. And vague sort of changed the names and write about their own lives and their experiences. And then she did a lot of marketing of the book you know and her book is on the Barnes and -- like missed the -- weighed down their mind is it. There but my so -- assign moral that I'm known as criminal behavior pays better -- for no no no here it is my. My family even aware poor. I was it was -- drilled into me college. Graduate school you know make something of yourself publish a book and so my family. One -- to have the celebration of like okay you -- he did a book a second that's what we want you know but my whose granddaughter is the criminal. Her book just came out so -- said -- joint -- party. For both of here. I have to say. The contradictions -- really evident. Right in the room you know. It's it's a really different life experience my cousin is every bit as smart as I am. But her whole circle a whole generation within my own family they are completely in a different world. Then that the Fed up. You know my. And I can't say that you're gonna reach both of these wells on the same meet."

" in the same way. That seems that seems a very important thing to say that I even wonder sometimes if the coverage both been on television in the national the national news programs and in the major national papers. Is insofar as it contains. In stories about African Americans it it often seems to me is that as if it's about middle class. African Americans not about. Working class people not about not about the large number of unemployed not a not not an and that since it seems to me beat these. One of the problems is of course that the readers are are they apparent that newspapers reach out to their readers in the readers making middle class and that may be a part of the a part of the issue. So is one conclusion we could draw -- that the that that despite the fact that we are we're not wish things have certainly changed him in the fact that your professor in Europe prominent. Commentator and and recognizable and airports. Is certainly a change from what it would have been like. Thirty years ago fifty years ago we didn't know no one would argue that. But one of the ironies is that -- all the fact that we do have so many more. Might that so many prominent minorities has how substantially do you think it's actually changed. Social conditions. In the real world."

" I'll start and end violence on the other story I used to teach economy university after working in city government and Obama used to tell some of my students like Ben jealous at the time. -- Don't think you can do off campus the same things you can do on campus because -- universities and -- Com and on campus site often walked in dormitories and at smelled marijuana. -- if you -- that the police never came on campus M broke down doors and arrested people. For marijuana on campus never ever that didn't happen. You walk one block off campus you know if you're what. If they if there -- police if they smelled marijuana -- busted there were Rockefeller drug laws mandatory sentencing hard time. And so I would tell black students. You know you are in -- zone here. But you have to understand. This is a protected space. And you're still black and if you walk one block off this campus you're getting busted if you are doing some of the things you do on this campus that's the reality. And so yes. You that do have black set MIT and at Columbia and some in positions that is true. But however. You walk one block off and there is a different thing going on there. Bomb and I would say it's a little different in the from the past as well. I mean. He you can call it racial targeting -- or that sort of thing but when I was growing up you didn't have. Prison as a way of life. Bomb my family they call it camp they don't even call it prison. You know where is Johnny what he's -- it's it's a very serious thing. -- and so I I think both things have happened in the last twenty to thirty years and Bruce west and an army did a study. Bomb he said if you drop out of high school -- an African American male you have a 60% chance of doing hard time before you turn 35. Bomb and that's about half that don't finish high school bombing drop out and 60% of that number. That's so different from when I was growing up so both things have changed and I say there's kind of class divide. That's. Different teeth and then when I grew up you."

" Do we there if you think that these these realities are being adequately covered in the mainstream press do you think that the New York Times or NBC news. Has been adequate in it in in in their in their response to these kinds of issues."

" Well at this therapy is I wanna say not come to this and a second but I think they're they're the key point here is that. All these major publications. In terms American newspapers. In terms of broadcast media are struggling to hold audience. And so what you're seeing overwhelmingly is. That these audiences are becoming more fragmented. And therefore if you're a news executive. You are more focused on maintaining. A niche. Inside. A broadcasting or news publishing. What does this mean well it means that for example. You know just take a look -- evening on your cable spectrum manual you'll see is MSNBC. Going far left you'll see far Fox News going far right. CNN struggling for some identity and losing numbers and you -- like bleeding. Seaspan does pretty well but of course there are rated -- this public service from talking about in the commercial well. You think about what's there in terms of American women. I know you know my wife my wife watches endless hours of CSI law and order you know they know exactly. Where you can you'll find a woman's -- balls you know and then there's for young males I guess there's spike and for kids. You know. Nickelodeon. And the like Disney Channel huge ratings of these things but again breaking down the audience in a way that prevents. To my mind as a journalist. That common telling the common sharing. Of an American experience of the telling of a tale now I say that. With full realization that for most of American life we have not had the common sharing. But the audience. Has been an elite in other words these are stories about powerful people that are being told to powerful people people who have money. Who have the ability to -- Latin by the products that are being advertised. In the course of these new."

" Productions. What happens then in terms of minority news today. Is that minority news. If you look at publications like ebony jet. Essence like. Oftentimes they become vanity publications. It's not the case that they are taking on difficult issues about. Social crisis. Or speaking to. You know the most compelling. But sometimes tawdry stories of life in minority America and especially among the -- to the contrary. They are exercises. And saying look you know here is so on so who's just been promoted to vice president of X company. And as an example or here is a fabulously rich. Music star or singer and their lavish new house. And the way that there livin' large. That is in their publication that's what they're featuring. And if you even talking about sort of national politics something like. Ebony didn't cover it for most of its light jet magazine had -- Booker. And I think it's called Washington wire -- is something that they had just little bulletins about the activities and often times. The social activities. Are prominent. Black politicians. In Washington on the national level. So when you're talking about. Well do we get sufficient coverage. Critical issues. In white newspapers."

" I would say we don't get critical and important coverage. -- these issues in any publications for the most part. And even today in what remains of the black press. They don't cover some of these crises with any sense of urgency. And what you get it and we've talked about the radio. Oftentimes being sort of a daily drama in the black community that morning especially the morning radio shows. You get sort of a collection of people saying yet what this is kind of established popular opinion this is the way we think this is going. But there is no commitment to putting feet on the ground in terms in investing money. Increase in and -- placing journalist in position. To tell you critical stories time and again with any sense. Dispatched. -- any sense. Trying to dig deep into a story and find systemic and identity of political power players who have their finger on levers that are causing distress. In these lower income communities is just doesn't exist. Another point to be made here is as we were talking about the Internet. Is that you will see now obviously you have tremendous disparities in terms Internet access especially in minority and poor communities. But what you're seeing is the black middle class and especially black intellectuals. They are creating space on the Internet. And so publication like the Washington Post now has the root. And their other similar publications I think AOL head forget the name of these sites. But it but places where what you're seeing is educated. Pretty much younger black people gathering. To have a kind of conversations that you spoke about coming out but of the black scholar at a time so that's occurring. But if you're talking to me about. Lower income. People of any color. Using the Internet as place where they could organize where they could mobilize where they could. Create common identity and common purpose I don't see it I could be out of the loop that I tend to be aware of not. Involved and I just don't see it at this point."

" I would. And mentioned that young friend in my and his name is James -- some years ago he founded a magazine called the source. And James -- went to brown went to Harvard Law School he's African American from Nashville. Bomb but the source if I don't know -- you've ever heard of them magazine in the audience it was really directed at. And I get this all mixed up the hip hop generation. You know except X I think it -- on the which one com but. G. Sense he had legal training he actually scrutinize the contracts of a lot of these rappers. He wrote in the magazine how they didn't on the cars that they drive around in dated -- in the houses that you know they were. This this company was paying for this and that company for that many critique their lyrics you know and said -- what does it mean if you're saying. This is a bitch and that women a bitch is then. -- what does that say about you what does that say about your children what is just you know he -- say things like that and in the magazine. And he -- following he got death threats. He had to go underground he had to back away from the magazine. Bomb that -- you know. And he's not publishing it. Right now bomb. That is I think a school one sign bomb that there's a real problem. Beyond that if the community itself doesn't want to hear that denies -- community do but -- there's an. Element in the community that is intolerant right of discourse. And that's a real problem. And there's not a lot of conversation about that there's no coverage of that."

" And just pick up on a fair. Just -- In my life as a journalist. Obviously. When I identify what I think of as points of crisis in the minority community. And write about it. It creates tremendous discomfort. In the minority community you would think that from my perspective as the journalist there would be an appreciation the idea -- wait a second. Someone with. Someone who commands an audience who has a -- who has a voice is paying attention. But to the contrary. Their responses often times. Why are you holding us up to scrutiny. And to criticism. In the white world. -- why are you airing dirty laundry might be the shorthand. Opera -- The most recent book that I wrote. Picked up on bill passed these things. And the book's title tells you log book was called enough. Phony leaders dead -- movements cultural failure. In Black America and what we can do about. Now when you write a book that talks about some of those points that you were touching. Half of our children not graduating from high school 60% of the people in jail being people of color. When you start writing about. 50% of the Hispanic population. Being born to a single mother's 70%. In the black community breakdown of the black and they're people who -- you know I don't wanna hear about this this is not what -- and it and these are the same people who will say you know I want to read another. Story about Michelle Obama's. Fashions. But they don't wanna hear. About reality. When it comes to the struggles."

" That are occurring in the black community and the exception would be you think well if there is an example where there's a white policeman in the mountain. Then I'll hear about that story. But if it's the story about. The problems that are. Been dabbling and I think crippling so much of the black and -- let's say failure to appreciate value of education. You people there is not much of -- market. This story in fact you will be hounded as cute as you describe your friends. And you will be in my case. You know it's easy to pick on me if there -- you you know you work for fox you work for NPR you work for the Washington Post you know. People will raise all kinds of things. Even if you were running the sort I think it's only fox the people who would even if you were running the source. Which is intended to serve a generation. People say well that's contrary to what we were picking up the source for you are putting us down. And I noticed this is not about the white newspaper per say this is about. The sensibilities. In the black community and in that middle class black community remember that again these publications these broadcast outlets."

" In terms of serving that middle class black community. Is trying to give ear or voice to issues that. Oftentimes. Not just escape that middle class community but -- of problem are problematic for. The poor and the porn are not the ones reading those papers or watching those brought."

" Can -- add one thing I think there's a strata in the black community. Ironically many of whom benefited from civil rights legislation. Such as black elected officials. Who represent. Majority black districts. And they want turn out to be as low as possible they want to -- the only people they want voting on that three people devoted to them less time. And they don't -- issues they don't want people excited. Bomb and then you have some others who come. Make a living I brought India NAACP legal defense -- when I went to public housing to talk about the to address public housing. Residents and they decided to talk about. Reducing. Sentences. For. Black. Crack dealers because they were getting longer sentences then white powdered dealers. And this is what they chose to talk about. The -- to the public housing audience and a public thousand audience. Almost grabbed them physically. Because they wanted it viewing given them rogue state a strong up the crack dealers like from trees. That is not what they wanted to hear. From you know the legal defense fund that was supposed to be quote unquote representing them."

" Those are such an important point and it as a journalist. I thought you'd -- if you're dealing with the leadership. The leadership will say you know it's about crack cocaine versus powder cocaine sentencing and say well wait a second have you talked to people who say they don't want any kind of cocaine. That if you put. Crack cocaine houses in a community. It not only drives down residential. Housing values it just creates street crime it leads to all sorts of dereliction. People don't wanna pick that's that the issue about who that whether this drug -- that drug -- getting heavier sentence. Is not the issue for the people and a commitment you know you it's hard to settle."

" I what I. I agree and I eight. Think that one of the shortcomings. Of the civil rights movement was really dealing with the economy. And underlying a lot of of tension. Right now bomb is. A real absence from. -- focus on and elected leadership of elected leadership black leadership and others to address fundamental problems. Like jobs fundamental you know that some people can't pay their mortgages and raise their families you know those kinds of things. And instead of dealing with that a lot of officials. Move on to other issues like skip gates being chased off of rested off of his porch you know I know that's unfortunate that you know what. -- That is not a vital issue bomb in Black America it is just not a vital issue. Bomb what is really concerning to me is there was an election. -- this week in new York and in several. Sections of the city turnout was actually zero. This was a runoff and in some of the poorest sections of the of the city turnout actually was zero. And John -- was running for city comptroller of the city comptroller of New York controls about sixty billion dollars. And here's this sold decision maker on where that money is invested sixty billion dollars. This should be amid New York I don't black employment in New York is almost 20%. Officially. This should have been a major. Issue. A major issue and it is. Bomb there's been so little discourse so little conversation so little education. About this issue turn -- actually hit zero to Maine that is like the the underlying kind of dynamic at."

" What could also saying I think that it that it marks a failure of journalism broadly that that. This kind of question is -- these kinds of questions we're not systematically publicized two two to make that make this make it. -- make New York citizens more aware of what was going on in in in in the election. I think there was a piece in the times today maybe was yesterday that something like 2% of the population voted. Should correct this shocking thing we we we're gonna make our transition out to the to the open -- section where you folks ask questions and make quick comments so get your questions ready. I thought that why you're getting ready for that -- often the case if I just say we're opening it to questions there's five minutes of dead silent so. Imagine this is the dead silent moment and I'll I'll ask transition question. I usually wear -- around people kind of jump but. I -- I so what one issue that's come up a little bit in in in in the conversation your wanted to. Ask one about. Many people have -- made comments to me about this when over the last few weeks because they knew you were coming. And I'm sure you've faced this question before but let me put this in the in this in the in the least controversial way I can do you find to have you experienced any tension in your rules as an NPR commentator and as a fox commentator. Do you sense that the cultures of those two. -- environments. Make different demands."

" Sure they used usually usually differ obviously weren't as. The visual medium or as an orally medium so radio versus TV have. Tremendously different demands to make on me as a journalist. And then the fact is that fox is a cable outfit and that it competes in this very. Aggressive commercial arena and has identified itself as a conservative. Outlet. These are this is very different in the kind of sensibilities and operate. At NPR. NPR's problems. Are that people would identify it as a liberal outfit. And that it struggles against that identification makes every effort possible not to fall into that niche it. -- obviously it fails sometimes but there's a real effort to try to be. I'm neutral source of news. And fox has no such desperation. What you get in terms of the dynamic of the presentation. Is again on cable news the idea is to be as provocative argumentative. As possible. You want. The visual to be as appealing sexy outrageous violence as possible that's a different universe than NPR. Where you know my kids say dad can you change the -- is boring this work you know it's not like they're droning on and on here. That's a different universe and a different sense. How what you're trying to achieve in reaching the audience and the whole business about storytelling. A different sense of time how much time as available for any segment. On TV versus how much time is available for any segment. Especially on our longer news magazine shows on NPR. Less so as there is a real battle over time when you come to things like morning edition and all things considered by. You know we can have extended interviews if you're tuning in to NPR news here Terry Gross -- fresh air. Think that kind of lance for an interview just doesn't exist anywhere on TV much less the cable -- so there's huge differences. That. You know I would point to things like. People don't even know who the whole star and NPR you definitely know in terms of prime time real estate. You know who Bill O'Reilly as you know who Sean Hannity is you know those primetime players. That's again a huge difference in terms of personalities. Driving the news and driving the presentation and the spin of the news versus what's going on on. On national public radio so huge differences."

" That I think are pretty obvious to anybody who comes in contact with them and for me. What it means oftentimes as a voice in these Arenas. Example I'm on NPR. I might be you know by tomorrow morning I'll be talking with Steve Inskeep and we're going to be talking about. Sort of liberal politics and has written response to Obama over the last few weeks. You know it'll be a one on one conversation with someone that you know it's trying to pull out of me. As because of because I have great sources and having contact with all these players pull out of me an understanding of well how the White House is reacting and how the political players on the left to reacting. If I was doing that on fox. I would be likely in conversation not only with the anchor but maybe another person. And the anchor of course would be more likely be someone who lean to the right. And they might have someone who was a right wing ideologues on and they might go first and then they come to me. And then I'm trying to light."

" Deconstruct what I think is the spin and distortion at the other person has put forward before I even get the trying to make my point and we're involved in a fight in which they're trying to picture. The left in sort of you know demonic. Terms and are saying wait a second I don't think that's the whole story here I think there's some real issues to -- that so again. The role I play beer is much more of -- four whale and the the other the voice that comes in and says wait a second here is. My vision of which differs from yours versus. The role I'm playing on NPR which is. Someone who has depth of understanding. Sources. The level of experience. That would help the audience to have perspective and context were the flow of news that they are consumed. We're."

" Ready for questions people there -- microphones here would be helpful if you gave your name because this is being recorded and you'll be known for all of eternity on car."

" On our archives."

" did you have been here give it its kind of sorry I'm Madeline and then graduate student in compared to meet these studies department yet. Above about your experiences working in and you aren't -- This isn't quite 15 but I am very interested in in your opinion. In these forums they often talk about this are declining newspapers and the decline in media and maybe I live in a bubble up I was and -- time and but it seems like NPR is doing a good job of weathering the storm from at least outside its -- And things are going okay for four radio shows and I was wondering if that was just my opinion as an outsider doesn't know anything more if you have any view about the survival of radio tower."

" Well. First thank you so much for listening to NPR. You know we love our audience. Concerned."

" We were very loyal audience and it's been a growing audience after 9/11 and PR saw a spike. In listeners and we have been able to maintain. Hold on those listeners for the most part there's been -- slight decline over the last two quarters I believe. But. It's been -- so what you see is this there's a tremendous rush to the kind of journalism on radio that's provided by NPR. Now I will say that I think that this is. An oasis in terms of radio and I think what your point. I think in Europe question insanity is if you had NPR is synonymous with all radio journalism. And I don't think that I don't think you're gonna find much like NPR anywhere else on the radio dial. That what you get are these talk shows. Where I think people are seeking to be outrageous. Provocative tourists mostly from the right. And in terms of news content. Maybe the top of the hour news from CBS. Or Bloomberg or fox or some -- basis but it's it's it's basically reading the headlines. And doesn't have the kind of depth and certainly doesn't have the investment and putting correspondents. Around the country or overseas that you will see. With national public radio. Now you spoke about the economic crisis that's afflicting all of American journalism. And suggest well you guys seem to be thriving. Well it you know from the inside perspective we have just laid off about 8% of our staff at national public radio. And the ability to move around to pay for things again has been limited by. The impact of the recession. You know major gifts investments in the kind of dividends that would come off of that of that money. It's not they -- in some cases that money has declined an absolute value given what's happened on Wall Street and that impacts our ability to function. So you know. That is. Impacting the journalism from my perspective as a journalist I noticed that I feel I'm just. Thrilled that you don't feel it that you still feel that the product is something that. I can give your driveway moments where you wanna stay in the car and listening and PR that's that's our goal and we hope to you're getting more of."

" Well I just wanna say that I I think that some of it in a lot of ways radio. Particularly right wing radio. Has become become the real political party. Sort of networks. In in society. In that you know political parties don't really exist is real organizations anymore there are there more campaigns. And then monies -- for a campaign -- particularly Kennedy. But as organizations that sort of organize dialogue about politics on an ongoing basis what basis they don't really do that. And on the right you have radio ideologues that actually do all mobilize people. Com and a lot of people sort of identify with some of these right wing -- radio host. And then on the left I don't think you have a similar. Sort of thing is as one was saying earlier I don't. I'm not saying there should be like -- left wing ideological. Kind of you know equivalent. To right wing ideologues so you because I think the whole thing is a little bit dangerous bomb actually. And one of the things I really hope for or hoped would happen out of Obama's campaign. Was that all of these volunteer groups and all of these participatory groups that were coming together across the country in there with thousands of them. Would somehow continue. And that they would organize. Dialogues in communities from independent. Of not just like take orders from you know. Bomb. Rahm Emanuel or something but they would actually organized dialogues. And around important issues and function as a real party. Might end. Deal -- folks have dropped it. I mean they send emails out and things like that but no it is really picked up on that momentum the excitement and enthusiasm that I saw. From people who participated in that -- young people it's been dropped. And I think that's -- dangerous thing. In an economic crisis with two wars a lot of contentious issues. On being debated an important issues being debated that we really don't have good forums I don't think. Bomb for people to come together and really what these issues throw. And it's different sitting. In a chair listening to someone talk to you as opposed to really being in so in a forum. We you can have depth and complexity. And nuance and so forth and I think all of those things are critical for democracy."

" Thank you for your comments really fascinating I mean contrary I teach in compared to -- studies here at MIT. And my question is about journalism in terms of editors especially and sort of -- discourses of what counts as news. I spent a few years working for a Japanese newspaper and I have worked on Japanese media. And you -- things struck me is that being outside of me it's very easy pressed to criticize the media but once you're inside it it's of which -- really much more complex. A system where it's hard to know where exactly the pressure points ought to be to change things. And one of the things I've noticed so especially watching coverage of Japan over the years. Is how's the stories of Japan they seem to actually get published in this one things I experience -- the newspapers have a lot more stories are written and actually published and since the sort of getting through the editors and up the chain. Actually getting in the paper was quite a trek. And that it seems that a lot of the stories are published fit into already. Accepted discourses of what the news is and how we should spin things and I don't know. If that's your experience but. It's so -- I'm wondering about the way is that. Those who might change demand in Japan case it's you know anything about those wacky Japanese. -- the one. He gets through the most easy you know that they don't always crows and Tokyo and they're terrified of crows -- You've got a woman who makes. It cost him that turns into the vending machine so she can run away from robbers you know and then there's a kind of way of thinking about Japan. As being this other thing in the those stories get through a lot of other things seem to be missed and so his question of sort of be important stories. Not getting through and whereas gates gates and the celebrity factor plays a big role it seems to me in the stores that do get through. So I guess I'm I'm curious if there are ways in which. What's decide is news and is not news is changing and if so sort of how. That process could be improved to deal more directly with important issues. They're facing especially black community in America. Thank you."

" Well it's. Forensic artist sort of a cross. Minds here it that this god that I hear this complaint for example. You hear complaints about. As we think think about Africa for example news from Africa that it just fits into stereotypes. Our Africa. It doesn't really bring you a sense the dynamic of life in Africa. It doesn't even bring you stories. About dark for. In a measure that would be commensurate with the tragedy that's taking place. And so you know why don't we pay more attention. Or in the examples that you offered about Japan wise that we. Seemed to goal for what seems comical. Versus began quality of life in what is a major power industrial economic power in the world. But the fact is that. What you're doing if you're the editor of one of these publications and I'm talking about your times as well as. A smaller paper in the midwest is you are. Creating a publication for your readers and they what they're interested in is news that directly affects them. As much as possible. So if you are writing about Japan. If they see that it's something that's kind of quirky and humorous okay. But how many readers are truly sufficiently interested in Japanese politics to be curious. About the inside baseball. That arguments they've taken place that led to a transition recently in political power that was a generational shift. For Japan. Maybe one story when -- the election is done. At most but in terms of the regular coverage and a proper appreciation of the importance of this story you're never gonna get it in an American paper. And this leads me to a larger point about being inside American papers at this moment when there's so much economic pressure. Bad if you do focus group with American readers."

" What you see is that they are interested basically in. Local news that's they weren't the sports page the guys who get the sports page we cannot get young women to read the newspaper. I don't care what newspaper editors. Young women will say you know they're busy with relationships they're busy with school. They'll say the newspapers seems to repeat itself a lot that it cyclicals it was to see if they were writing about. Obama and the health care yesterday and -- is the same damn -- today. And I'll wait you know the biggest newspapers for them might be the Thursday or Sunday paper with the coupons. But in terms of the news content not if that's not what's driving them. So. We have a hard time getting young women to read the paper off. Young men will be drawn in by the sports page the question is whether or not they ever make the transition to the front. And the struggle. The overall struggle is against him. To meet the desire to read about themselves in the paper they want local news they want local sports they want more of that. They do not want. More in depth coverage international -- sad to say and they don't particularly have an appetite even for national news coverage. It's local news maybe statements but that's what is going to. Our result in the sale of more newspapers. And one last point on this when I asked young people. Where you get your news. They say things like Jon Stewart Stephen cold there right Oprah. Leno Letterman. Howard Stern. You know as some of the comic. People who are the disc jockeys in the morning the shock jocks in the morning and all that. And they you know even if they say oh yeah but I watch cable they'll start talking about Rachel -- now or. Bill O'Reilly. Lou Dobbs. And I think to myself and my guess you know we haven't talked about one. Reporter yet somebody who actually goes out talks to people gets the news collects news and tries to present it. In a way that I think is impartial may have talked about one such person yet so that's. The audience. Now if you're the editor and you know that's the audience. You wanna serve that audience you don't have to be a bad person. Or craven to say I'm simply trying to hold this audience. How to why hold this audience what's not by giving them more about the intricacies of Japanese politics. And that's not gonna hold their arrivals or hold their attention. So the implication of this one is that. The for profit model -- no good that's true. But it's also I thought that you were gonna say the implication this is that the audience. Know what the audience wants to me is is very curious that audience will sit in front of me and setting like this and say. You know why is the news media failing us why -- the news media doing a better job. And I think to myself you know what do you watch. What do you read. Or what do you failed to agree."

" Before on this. Hello my name is torrent I'm -- report to him. And -- just didn't know -- You know opinion about the racing each. They need you reflect into electoral. -- community. And how hard thing to have to let people. -- And -- school like to know your opinion about. The ways in which we can that reflect color but multiracial societies."

" Black intellectuals. In the media again and multiracial. --"

" Well we were just having a conversation. Chris Thompson about."

" Areas especially on the Internet where I think there is. More. Communities of black intellectuals reacting following the news having conversations with each other. So bad occurs I think on the Internet to some extent not to any large extent but it is clear I think it's present if you were seeking that you could find. If you're talking about in the course. Mainstream or. Mostly. On. News organizations or -- products that are oriented for a mainstream mostly white audience. Then I think I could hear the whole question of intellectual. Thought. -- is really in short supply I don't care what colors. If you think I often think of -- news. As related to idea is news is related to advanced and I think at the bottom of this I would put news is related to personalities. We have lots of news is related to personalities people relate to other people they're curious six that are. In terms of advance if you look at the way that news as presented is oftentimes in terms of a key meeting a key. The rally or march. A key decision has been made a -- paper has been issued. You know in Washington or something like that can report. Those are events but in terms of ideas of -- of coverage of ideas it is game because again you're talking about. What is going on and larger screens and it may be. Difficult. To personified put it in terms of any human being. Which is the way that most people apprehend the news. Coming out of mainstream media in the country. So if you're than breaking it down saying what's going on in terms of black intellectuals in the country. Then you go back to personalities. For example. One of the power is a professor gates at Harvard is that he is a celebrity personality. So that when he engages in his work as a professor he has a greater chance. To get into that mainstream media and idea. But they would largely couch it in terms of some work or effort that's being done by a celebrity black professor at Harvard University. You know similarly. Cornell west shifting from Harvard to Princeton -- like get gets more attention than any work. That professor gates a professor west. May have engaged in the hasn't done any well I didn't order -- and I mean he has written and that's why he shifted. And and and you know you think about again. In areas. Let's say critical. Critical -- Race relations in the country it would have to reach the point where it was a matter of policy. Argument that was going to be implemented. Before I think it would get. Become evident in the kind of coverage that you would see in -- mainstream newspaper or hear on radio or television and -- it's pretty rare."

" I I have noticed some mention this on some of mine who like black colleagues and doing more. -- public media. So. Melissa Harris least slow at Princeton was on CNN a lot recently. I'm Carol -- who's a friend of a professor of there. -- has been on. On CNN you know and -- networks recently. Come Larry Bobo at Harvard has been writing for the root. And you know I I encourage that trend some because I think a lot of professors. By the time they get ten year. Well when they're trying to get ten years they're writing for journals that twelve of their colleagues read in you know write letters on their tenure cases. And there's sort of conditioned not not so right. In ways that you know popular audience can actually interpret what they're saying bomb. And then by the time they get -- they sort of think that's how you do things. And I encourage. This trend of you know. Black professors and students even. Getting really engaged. With issues that are being talked about. And debated in Washington or in their state houses or whatever I personally have found that newspapers are interested. In carrying you know having you write something like that come -- something for the Boston Globe recently. That the mayor's office this meter right because they they said somebody has stolen. It was around green jobs. And the building trades actually went to the globe and got the -- not to do the article. But I thought that was fun bomb. Because because it's like a new story and so yeah I -- that this is Boston. Com and there have been historic issues between the building trades in minority communities over jobs and who gets publicly funded construction jobs. And they just didn't want. This sort of you know this kind of out there for the public but we have a lot of people at this campus and and on other campuses are working on these issues. And this city should know what the data is. And they should know the history and I think those of us in universities ought to have an obligation actually was subsidized by the way. Sitting here even though we're private university we don't pay taxes I think we have an obligation. On to use some of our skills that we've gained. For public for the public so I I would encourage that and I think a look I think it can be. I don't wanna say transform this but I I think he can actually. Help a lot. In addressing economic issues are other things that I mentioned what problems that an elected officials are talking enough about. I think he can help on accountability issues you know because sometimes we can say things we're not gonna get fired. By getting in the face of an elected official or something like that so. I think it's important."

" And where we have about -- little less than twenty minutes left let me encourage. Especially. When you're on the panel but also you who asked questions to be concise."

" Gave me many musings labor and I've actually seen in civil engineering here MIT. Not a question on his lack of a compelling black news media. Forum what role has Oprah played in all this has seemed router situation at all or has she brightest to the edge of --"

" Well I guess use you assume that Oprah is they newscaster. --"

" Of course it."

" He's so open roommate or is it."

" She's open the path for what form. It would let its into what she said -- on the Mike you so what what what the questioner said was. That Oprah has such a powerful voice and created a kind of forum that might have gone in. And any information or in whose direction but hasn't sent right."

" Why don't I don't think that she. Open that path I think -- what she does is they show again you think about what she's trying to do she's trying to reach women. Middle aged. Or wrongly write one. With a program that can compete with the other talk shows of the day and she has Haddix extraordinary astounding success. And she is it's tremendously effective in her new magazine -- the over the magazine who just tremendous and her book clubs. But it is for that American. Middle aged white suburban woman audience at heart that's what she does. I don't think of it as a news program now it's can be highly informative programming can be as sensitive program it can be. One that prompts you to to cry or to laugh that's the best of Oprah. And occasionally she might turn attention to something that she views as an important. News story and try to help you appreciate it especially by again. Featuring personalities. That then come on the show and make the issue real for that audience. But again you know from my perspective and I hope I'm not. Coming across -- some -- tanker's -- but I don't think season knew this person I don't think that's what she's trying to do. I think she's trying to. On cater. Two I think she does the best of those talk shows aimed at American women. And -- and she does astounding job of that but that's -- is different than saying that."

" Then I would hold her to account for not doing more news or not doing more serious discussions. Hoping that and I think as what you meant when you -- an open net for our. That's not her goal and that's not what she's competing. Not to offer to advertisers. Who pay her highly for holding an audience."

" I'm -- freshman here. And I heard you talk about how like he had these roles. And in years."

" Fox News and other places. And how -- sort of lead to a package just sort of media style. Especially the competition between the three networks. I was wondering how like the spin and -- is to drive like characterize it here. --"

" we have -- I think and."

" You like buzz -- all the time limits. Or effects on the death of discussion of minority topics. Especially with a rise of like a lot of minority commentator. Well."

" that's interesting what I'm saying is that you do have if for example if you're on. Cable television news and again the time is gonna be tight. And you're gonna have people using sound bites and visuals to advantage in the course of a debate. You have got the if you can speak. In visual terms in other words create. Pictures with your words especially played two pictures there might be being shown as you are speaking. You are -- an advantage right that's that's to your advantage. If you use a buzz words I think in terms of sound bytes are things that are going to really stick. In the person who's listening who's having visual input as well as. You know intellectual input. Your voice your words. That you have to be aware of it if you're in that environment. Similarly or did similarly if you are on the radio and again you're trying to create those were pictures too. But you have a different kind of environment and you're not in the course of debate where you were being contradicted or someone -- firing offense you're interrupting you it's that it's a different. Reality and it's a different experience for the consumer of news in that environment so you're saying well how does that impact. The depth of discussion about minority news in the country."

" again she's not on the mikes or minority report we can -- to the example she chose was from the Jon Stewart show. And it. 11 you you can respond tonight."

" Nobody -- from me again sitting here you know with this MIT I did you hear about Oprah I hereby Jon Stewart you know. But what they're doing in his case is he is making fun of the politicians and he showing how in fact. -- The news anchors news me -- but I think he's making fun of a political class. And what you're seeing there is he's saying you know look these people repeat the same kind of mess they all get locked into the same language time and again is -- funny. But is it revealing is that truly going to the essence of the discussion debate I think even by his own. Standards he says you know what I do is phony news I'm not doing -- knows how can you think this is -- will be very useful and a lot of people. A lot of people buy into. But I thought that you are saying also how does this impact coverage. News as it relates to the minority community I think that's a very important subject because again. Given the high percentage of stereotypes that exist about people of color that immigrants women in American society a lot of these. Build the kind of sound -- a lot of the kind of pithy language. That gets used in that environment I think does not allow us to really come to grips with the issue so the people sort of automatically takes sides. I think people are. Very sensitive about well I say this it may come across the somebody as racists or somebody me shout back that's a racist -- that's a racial statement. And there is as a result. A lack of that kind of important discourse. You -- cargo professor Thompson talking about some really critical issues but you would never hear that kind of thing. You know because. Either they would be talking about the celebrity with a celebrity sad or is -- outrageous or is it offensive as opposed to the actual content. And how it is impacting -- consequences happening. On the lives of people in a community."

" Which side are we on this. Onerous -- longer my question gets in my head that -- Sandra Larson and my freelance writer so. You've talked about Michigan's about it that about a debate among blacks and how how that might be. How that might have declined some but from our perspective out. Mainstream media. I wanna know what used. What coverage you think is actually most. Lacking. And that maybe it the better question is which should be more important say in terms of the African American community. To cover more issues that are uniquely African American -- to just. More routinely include African American examples of opinions and characters. In stories. Better more general. And maybe at I was going to he had a couple of examples of about a national issue anything from. How people are paying for college education to the foreclosure crisis to. Global warming. Issues that are just reported generally how well would be more important to focus in on. A specific aspect of it that means something to minority community or just too. Always. Include people of all types when reporting story."

" Well a lot of this is generational for example there was a time when people of color were not included in sort of mainstream coverage of politics or the economy. You know child care whatever -- you you know because again most of the audience for. New York Times or CBS news or NPR is white people and so they're trying they're relating to that audience. And then they came a day when you would see black faces pop up. Left and right or faces of color of any kind or you would see woman pop up and they all look. Now there is a greater awareness of the diversity of the audience and of people and of the society. And of course that's shifting as we see. Now I think it's a third the American population made up of people of color. That shifting as you see women come into more positions of prominence in American life whether it's Sonia Sotomayor on the Supreme Court we just had it. You know that the president. Basically considered only women for that position and mean that you know so the idea you know look at the highest most qualified legal minds in the country and look at this group of women. That's different. But that's separate from the kind of intentional use are saying. We want to make a presentation here that would suggest that we are aware. Of racial difference and we wanna highlight people of color or women in this presentation. That's kind that kind of intentional coverage I think occurs occasionally. It often seems contentious or heavy handed in some ways. And again it's speaking to the sensibilities. Of that overwhelmingly white audience. But. When you get into these stories. Especially about poor people. It's handle in what I consider to be very intriguing way in that too often. Poor. Is inflated with minority. And then all of a sudden you think well gee everybody on welfare in the country's black. Or you think everybody who was involved with school violence is black person when you think wait a minute. Now you've gone from one extreme to another. And you are in fact distorting. This story or. You're not covering the story here you know they took the people's sometimes you're seeing coverage of something like homelessness. They'll be showing you lots of white people on the street and think wait a second when I'm going on history I see a disproportionate share of people of color among the homeless. How come when it -- but on TV they may be thing you know we don't wanna get any complaints from anybody says you only show. People of color who are home that's the kind of dilemma that the editor or the editorial director can get caught him. As they try to present that story."

" I would just add that. I think there -- a couple of important issues that. It would be helpful if they dug Mori into. Black communities for example until the story a bit differently so for example. And studies have shown in black communities. It makes absolutely no difference what so whether whatsoever whether a black person has health insurance -- doesn't have health insurance. In terms of how often they see a doctor. And that's not true of the -- community in the black mean makes no difference whatsoever this is in studies. And the reason is because most black communities have no primary health care system whatsoever. And so they're no doctors. Except at the hospital. So if you get sick. Whether you have insurance or whether you don't have insurance. You have to go to the hospital and -- in the emergency room and it takes a long time a lot of people just get frustrated with that they don't go unless they're really really sick. Bomb so the whole focus on public option no public option. You know single parent a single pair is defined is that this is the cutting edge sting nets like."

" Gonna make -- difference for everybody on whether or not they get to see doctors. That's not the full story and in minority communities particularly black communities. That's not even the main part of the story. And so -- that's one example and another would be mortgage foreclosure which foreclosures -- seven times higher. In black communities and how did that happen well that's kind of an important story that you don't hear a lot about how did it end up seven times higher in black communities. Bomb and it's an interesting story you know about that brokers. Sell out working for you know big big mortgage brokerage companies selling job. And black communities and it raises a real issue about if you're in the black community where do you go for reliable information. Because I did focus groups with a lot of these women. Who lost their homes. And a lot of them trusted these brokers because they were that. And because they felt they wouldn't get screwed. By these folks. Because you know historical ties identity all this sort of thing. And they weren't getting screwed. Bomb so I think that's an important story. Personally."

" Again we have very we only have four minutes left people so let's be very brief. Both questions and answers."

" Okay so I'm Priscilla. And I wanted to draw attention to a reality first then ask my question. You talked about how it's difficult for you being in the media to get certain issues. Out into the public maybe not and in a form such as NPR where you can kind of let's talk about your Owen. And done that in depth knowledge. But. Maybe in print media and newspaper where he had to go to an editorial board or Fox News where. The time segment short and but. In saying that it's difficult for you to get your specific. Issues out there you also then what can criticize another form of media that portrays issues in a way that. That people who might not necessary to listen to NPR -- go and read entire newspaper. Would it be. Expose it is exposed to certain issues that they might not happen. So you mean like non news sources like Clinton Jon Stewart show we're -- Maria. So I kind of wanted to ask you what you think the responsibility. Of the media is. Seeing that. Not all people are going to pay attention to that issues that are you know happening in Japan or are exposed to the world so how do you think media. Should appeal to all of these different groups. V the pour in the middle class upper class and exposing. The truths that you seem to want to discuss. Because in my opinion I think Oprah does. Bring the -- of people she does and a different way than a philosophical black scholar magazine might. But she brings the news to a group of people that might not have seen it in a way that date would be interested. -- in hearings so what's the responsibility of media what would you like to get."

" What what I like it to do. Let me just say that on Fox -- I don't have any trouble saying what I believe what I think is -- kind of the heart of the news I can say what I wanna say I'm saying -- more combative environment. And on and on NPR. Again time constraints exist it's just again I think it's a more deliberative. And direct form where I'm in conversation with someone and I'm not having to be argumentative I don't think that the visuals are distracting. You know I don't think there's someone sitting there who has collagen in her lips and shiny legs you know me I'm able to just. You know have this kind of more. Direct conversation. Now with Oprah again what I said to their previous."

" Question on this topic was open -- typically. Personify and issues just say here's a person. Who went through a personal struggle and an issue. And here's her story for the first time speaking to you today. And then of course they may be celebrities involved with it and celebrities who made it their cause and you can see pictures of celebrities traveling into this. Ailing and distressed communities you know that kind of thing and you're saying well that makes a good for the -- now we can appreciate and understand it. But from my perspective as a professional journalist my perspective is if I can get time and I can tell this story. In such a way that really speaks to why people would say are victimized -- predatory lending. I'm not trying to talk down to you I'm not trying to say. That. I don't expect that you are going to be able to understand this unless I. Make believe about a specific mother although that could be the way to do this story but that's just one of the ways to do it. And I think that you have an obligation as -- highly educated American. To be an informed consumer of news. If you're waiting on Oprah to get to it there are lots of story she won't get too because he's busy with Whitney Houston. And I love Oprah I just think what Oprah is doing great stuff and she does bring some stories to attention. That otherwise would not have mass exposure. But god bless her she's not responsible for you picking up a copy of the New York Times once in awhile and seeing these stories. As real reporters are trying to tell them to you. In terms of the political interplay that is causing these stories to occur -- before. Oprah's producers."

" Also pick up in New York Times -- to try to figure out a way to package it. That would appeal to you as you are you know watching TV and catching the Oprah show in the afternoon. So I I just I just want all of you to have a sense of your obligation be informed consumers of news and be able to distinguish between. What is personality driven presentations even from someone with a very high in positive level of consciousness like ms. Winfrey. Versus other presentations that may not be so my mind."

" We're we're actually one minute over we're gonna we will stop at 705 there are three questioners I hope we can get to all of you what you have to be very brief. And so do you."

" Well we stopped in at 705 regardless if this is and it's -- five right now at 701. -- It's so official clock is in the back. Food so here's my question is I'd like to. Ask what is the role of identity or image in media consumption I think that's something you guys book touched on. So for example course -- like Jon Stewart who was it. Presenting himself as Salma cynical and sophisticated. Consumer of news to people who perceive himself that way. And or for example like the black middle class. Like you said perhaps not so interest. New York comptroller election because perhaps they perceive themselves as being -- related to these issues so. How in media do you then engage people who. Don't have than a self image of themselves in these sort of issues you know poverty or these are things how you engage them so that they're actually interest in this news. Because as an otherwise there won't listen to. You only have one sentenced to answer it should tickle -- question --"

" Well obviously -- strive very quickly to say it again what you can try to do. Is bring up basic human face to the story I think if you made it plain upfront in the way the professor Thompson did the connection between. The power of that office to control billions of dollars that could lead to contracts and we're those contracts going are they going into your community into your pocket really going into somebody else is back. Then you could make it real. That that's the best that you can do is to give -- attention. And again you might. See some publications or broadcasts that would lock literally launch a crusade about it and say hey there's this office people aren't paying attention but has tremendous power in your community. But that would be a rarity it's more often the case they would do a one time hit saying look at the connection between monies that are going to be allocated and that. Power of this person that will be elected. You know that's the best you can do again. Is interesting in these questions you guys always put the onus on the media. And I'm thinking that's great we're trying but it's strikingly. It's the audience. That -- the cynical ironic attitude and doesn't pay attention to the in depth kind of issues that I think are available. But oftentimes go on attended an unappreciated by the audience."

" On the right. And kid and now audiences. She. How -- seen or. Zip."

" My societal impact. I you know I -- myself to pretty high standards in terms of trying to do serious journalism and trying to help people have an understanding. -- how power works you know I go back to. Books like the power broker about Robert Moses and you know you see the impact. Someone who in his case is an elected official but decisions that he may. So. My fascination is with you know who gets their garbage picked. Who gets their streets -- who gets to send their kids to good schools. Who feel safe on the streets in their neighborhood gets good police protection. Gets good fire protection. What are the basics have got so if you're hearing me on fox if you're hearing me on NPR. What I hope I'm doing is giving you information makes you a more informed voter. A more informed activist in your community. Someone that helps you to have a better understanding. Of the forces at work it that are leading. To decisions and policies regulations that are impacting your life. And otherwise why would you listen you know you have to trust me and expect -- I'm delivering something about that expand your base of knowledge. About a a political dynamic and if I do that their undoing much."

" Final question what would I I don't go -- I just let -- say. MIT has some of the brightest engineers and scientists in the world. And it is one of the most socially ignorant places I've ever been in my life. Tom and so. I I would say to all of us innocent little scary because people are making device this year that have big social impacts and there's very little consciousness about. Any of these things were talking about here tonight saw I think this isn't just a question for. Journalists. And in terms of what are you doing to have a societal impact coming what are each -- you doing on this campus to have an."

" Packed. Mr. Question I have comments okay -- Nolan gooey eyed teacher at. Harvard's Kennedy school of government teach courses. Concerning information communication from the former Republican to his communications lawyer. Base runner Leo law firm and by the port foundation. Obviously the FCC in the government and media companies and what happened but that was way back then when there -- regulations. -- like to do is David concluded his and his remarks in summary. And coming up fill in one's comments I think perhaps we've heard examples of the failure of journalism. Not only you I think there's -- journalism is still but I think the no market for. Good journalism and news has fail but also I think that there's a failure of government and of democracy itself. Because in a democracy. Citizens need to be informed. And one of the roses the media is to inform them and act as they watch stuff. I'd like to. It suggests. Some references were members of the audience -- like a better understanding of race politics. And American go knowing you have to do this in thirty seconds relating to minute so -- alignment so that in 9668. For example -- A 1976. No 1968. There was a number of blacks. -- African Americans higher. As reporters in newsrooms and it wasn't just in Weston was cross country and the reason was. That was feared that the so called Kerner Commission report was published and that I was they have blue ribbon committee have auto -- Put it by Lyndon Johnson to study the causes them civil civil disturbances in American cities -- referred to as the United States Bryant commissioned report. And they concluded on that there's a white racism was the primary cause and there was a whole chapter upon the role of the media and show that -- the media. Either undercover -- didn't cover or mist covered the black communities. And immediately have to -- thin black people all of the cut to a qualified when the day before that was suppose they were not. The FCC even change his truth and began to require employment. Accounts and reporting. And it -- and I think intuitive for the first time. That discrimination in employment. By broadcasters. Was not in the public interest which implies that before then maybe it was. In any event I like to -- provide recommend three resource is that. The that those members of the artists who would like to further. Studied this issue one being the current -- report itself. It had no teeth for the tech great recommendations. The other 21 with one is the and -- Annual report stated the news media 2009 which you can -- pull off the Internet. And find out that if not yes. Radio or television or newspapers but also cable news and even Internet news which is losing audience it. Perhaps people don't want to know there's so distracted by other important concerns and more perhaps -- it's not giving them what they need. The other when it is one just published on Friday an employee and a copy of it here it's called the Knight commission on the information needs of communities in hate democracy. I think it's something that everyone ought to read. I have time dude I'm going to veto of it. That's just start thank you know we have to stop I wanna thank you audience and thank our speakers."