Title: Whose Words These Are (11): Lloyd Schwartz

" I'm Christopher lightened with -- Lloyd Schwartz reported plain speech made cheeky musical sometimes heartbreaking. This is a portrait series whose words these are on open source from the Watson institute at Brown University. Bush what's meant to be an actor. Along the way you won a Pulitzer prize for his newspaper coverage of classical music around Boston but all while he's been a poet. Typically in monologues and dialogues. Among people you can almost see on stage or in your kitchen. All of his words and shaped by that sense as his friend Robert Penske put it that speaking is as natural as breathing. Butch -- book and read for us. Renewing the poets have been hanging out for most of the century the growing your portrait bookshop in Cambridge. -- shorts the must've been a poem or report back there that. Drew you in him."

" Com. I was not very interested in poetry or English or literature until I was a senior in high school. I have great. English teacher in high school named Allen can for. Who reminded me of Groucho Marx. Had a mustache. Probably the first. Mayor and I ever met who had who wore a mustache. And who would do any thing. To get the class excited about poetry -- remember him leaping. On his desk and reading. The -- monologue from a -- And and I fell in love with poetry. In his class."

" Poems. Suddenly."

" Meant something they were actually about how something I felt they were about something. They were beautifully put together I concede that. What a great teacher and the two columns. Every member of dean the very first homes that really got me excited about poems. Or. Pizzas owed on -- around. And Robert Frost fire and -- it's. And I think they're both from. I wouldn't what is it truly great. Par on the Keats is certainly one of the greatest poems ever written in English and may be one of may be one of the two or three greatest poems. About art itself. And then find -- nice was really about the world and people and condensed into this. Sort of breath taking and scary. Little poem that just exploded in in my face. Fire and -- by Robert Frost. Some say the world will end in fire. Some say in ice. From what I've tasted of desire. I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice. I think I know enough of hate. To say that for destruction ice. Is also great. And would suffice."

" And doing their there was one right. Which went to -- put yourself in that sort of great chain of being mean how many degrees of separation. From those folks from homer for that matter I think in the case of maturity. Homework is good --"

" Eight. I'm mainly in narrative poet so I see myself in a tradition of narrative poetry which I guess homers started. -- as far as we know. And did Chaucer and monologues. Character pieces. Which I also write. Frost. Very much so. That. Ironies. In fire and ice is something that I think -- Pervades -- that I hope pervades my own -- on the very. I think of myself as a very anti sentimental. Poet -- had died. -- I have of low. Threshold for sentimentality. And I don't let my students. Get away with anything that I think -- sentimental and I trying not to him in my own work the bread and do this one of those personal -- With a little of the paradise. Mischief and seriousness. And cleverness. -- and one out I'll try I hadn't really thought of this. As a column in that tradition but I think maybe it may be it is maybe -- command of that. It's it's the first -- in my last book. And it's called a true -- I'm working on a poem that's so true. I can't show it to anyone. I could never show it to anyone. Because it says exactly what I think. And what I think scares me. Sometimes it pleases me. Usually it brings misery. And this poem says exactly what I think. What I think of myself. But I think of my friends. But I think about my lover. Exactly. Parts of it might please them. Some of that might scare them. Some of it might bring misery. And I don't wanna hurt them I don't want to hurt them I don't want to hurt anybody. I want everyone to love me. Still. I keep working on it why. Why don't I keep working on it nobody will ever see it. Nobody will ever seen it. I keep working on it even though I can never show it to anybody. I keep working on it even though someone might get hurt."

" Some reminds you a question that's so there's. Do you write for yourself do you -- for your audience to you right for editors do you write for god do you write for."

" More you know you -- for the ages who's who's the audience for that poem -- well you know it is. The answer is really all of the -- And basically. From myself it has to. Please me or work for me or scare me."

" And then. Because I love. Reading palms allowed and I love reading my own proposal and it's one of my favorite things to do. It was a well would reduce the poem about the yes and no -- remember. Happy to. It's called six words it's -- festina. Which is in a very. Particular mathematical form. And I would venture to say this is the world's shortest sixteen -- Six words. Yes. No. Maybe. Sometimes. Always. Never. Never. Yes. Always. Know. Sometimes. Maybe. Maybe never sometimes. Yes. Noll always always may be. No never yes. Sometimes. Sometimes always yes. Maybe never. No no sometimes. Never always. Maybe. Yes. Yes. Now. Maybe. Sometimes. Always. Never."

" But it really does not read it. You know that -- sat -- set to music by young composer. And."

" She didn't know how to read it very interesting. On. But it wasn't. -- really the column I have in mind which reminds you what's the community. You work we. -- game. Who is. Hmmm what -- you run with -- went to angular and it may be very amused to think of themselves in that and in that way. Well my -- Masur and frank guitars and Robert Penske. Take -- charity. And some people who are not poets who. Who are very just very close friends and who are very very good and smart and sharp readers."

" Glitter wanna hear more of your point but on the way. All time favorite poem. Through a desert island. Who would you would you want would you call. In in in the spirit of the Penske favorite -- you know."

" Probably keep -- may be the go to in nineteen -- I think that's my favorite. Great palm but. May be also. Andrew marvels to his coy mistress preakness and it should some wonderful. Wit and passion and intensity. And may be Elizabeth patients in the waiting room."

" Let's put this -- accomplished poet learning. Editing. A friend and idol Elizabeth Bishop for the library of America."

" How good she was in more ways then one would have expected. The poems themselves weren't such a surprise to me she didn't write a whole lot of poems and even the poems. To achieve. Didn't publish. There really aren't. So many although there's some really marvelous ones that I would actually love to read one of them. But also discovering this. What really very few people know about except the bishop scholars is how much really. Marvelous prose she wrote. And that was that was -- to the big discovery. That was the big discovery for me working on Elizabeth Bishop back to the time when I did -- today. Ph.D. thesis. My Ph.D. thesis on her and that. Also discovering that. Wealth. Superlative. Pros. -- Penske said in his in his book the situation poetry was talking about talking about bishop. And about how her poems had old. We're not only great homes but also had the great pros for -- That achieved."

" She can tell a story she could given narratives and and in with great clarity. And kind of just -- Clarity. But in the process of working on on her. Poetry and and her writing and getting to know her. A it's. Came across. In a notebook that I is looking that visiting her in the hospital. Upon that she had just finished. Which I -- who is wonderful and one of her. Great poems and a wonderful love -- And I had. I had to have a copy. And I made a copy for myself. And kept it hoping that she would eventually publishes. Fearing that she might not because it was very personal. And she was. A little reluctant to be too personal in her published work. And calm she died without having published it. And people have been going through her papers for many years. And did not find the notebook. That had that problem and so as far as I know. I had the only copy of that poem because I made a copy for myself I copied it down. We junior and I would love to read it and some wonderful poem I think. It's called breakfast song."

" My love. My saving grace. Your eyes are awfully -- I kiss your funny face. Her coffee flavored -- Last night I slept with you. Today I love you so how can I dared to grow as soon I must now. Too bad with ugly death. In that cold filthy place to sleep there without you. With a -- easy breath. And night long lean long warmth I've grown accustomed to."

" Nobody wants to die Tellme is a lie. But no. I know it's true. It's just -- common case. There's nothing one can do. I love. My saving grace. Pure eyes are off people who. Early. And instant. Clue."

" Treasure Q and rescued Noah yeah I consider -- If -- accomplished nothing else in my life. It's saving. Lives I think if it at home. -- And she is she seems to me a model. Everything. That. Good poetry should be. She said. She said one of her one of her -- her most famous posthumous remarks. This is something that was discovered and a manuscript. -- may have been discovered after she died. That she was talking about in an essay that she never finished writing. Talking about the qualities. In other people's poetry that she that she loved him. And they were her. Accuracy. Spontaneity. And mystery. And I think she nailed it and she was really describing her own work. That these. You know that this breeze and sense of detail and vivid description. And the sense of absolute lead living through a situation. Where. You don't know what's gonna happen next and the public herself doesn't even know what's gonna happen next if she corrects itself. Officials say a church you know I mean cathedral. In the process of the -- and men. The bottom. The bottom line or underneath the bottom line -- sense of complete history. Noted this on really how did it come together why is -- so -- why does it resonate so much why does it move us. So much ability to use some of your own. Thank you I would love to Newark classic. Will this is one of my own. Favorite of money but my own homes. I wrote a series of problems. About my mother my mother's. -- several years ago she was a hundred when she died and had been. Seriously. Losing her memory. For the last ten years of her life. But my mother do we do anything for me and I don't think she knew. That she was giving me. Com said -- mean subjects for poems and a number of these homes."

" Our. Honor. Really are based very closely on things that she said. I'm gonna read a home that's entirely in her voice. And it's called the two horses. Memory."

" You said you had lunch in Pittsfield. Was it on north street."

" That reminds me of when we lived on the farm. It must be eighty years ago. We went to a one room schoolhouse. To do you drive past at once. Each row with a different grade. I sat in the receipt of the first --"

" The teacher's name was miss brown. She was so pretty. I wonder if she still line. The day before we left the farm -- cat disappeared. We couldn't find her anywhere."

" I was sad for weeks. Three months later she showed up at her new house in Pittsfield."

" Robbins and opinion. I can't think of the numbers."

" My sister was in New York. She didn't like the people she was living with so -- visit us. She fell in love with the young man who lived next door. Morris. Your uncle Morris. They got married and moved to Cleveland."

" They're both gone now aren't. You know. I can't picture her."

" A few years later we moved to New York."

" This chest jumped into my mind. I must've been three years old. We we still in Russia. Mir. A small town but famous -- she Shiva."

" My oldest brother. Show. Took our horses down to the river. They with the two best courses in the town."

" My father hadn't seen time and beautiful old buggy. He was like a taxi driver he took people to Minsk. Or Vilma. That day he was at the station the passenger station. Waiting for customers. My brother was still just a kid. He must've been washing the courses in the river. I can remember. It was a hot day. That he was giving them a drink."

" And while I was watching. The reins. Got caught around the pole in the river."

" The horses kept twisting the reigns around that pole. It was slippery the greens kept sliding down under the water and they were pulling the horses down with them. I ran into town and got my father who came running back with a knife in his teeth. He jumped into the river with all his clothes on. He took the knife and -- away the reins until he finally cut through. He saved the horses."

" I haven't thought about this in a thousand years."

" It's like a dream. If you get -- forgotten."

" Then -- comes back."

" Didn't really ever tell you. Look at me. I'm starting to cry. What state -- crying about it. So -- such an old old memory. Why should it make me cry."

" Whom ruin this beautiful. Little news who's read through what -- my mother. Eight."

" Last story is that -- you. -- yeah I mean there was a story I never heard when I was a kid I'm on that lots of stories. I never heard that until. Really just a couple of years before she died and when she wasn't remembering anything in and she'd have these flashes. A whole world of memory coming back to her specialty. Very old memories. This sort of formal. Structure and that -- is but it's not a very conventional when it's one that I kind of gravitated to and a lot of my -- that true poem is in the is in the same. Quote unquote form. And it's short sentences and each sentence is its own stands. So it's not it's free verse. And I think of it it's -- it's not pros to me it did it feels. Organized like upon but the lions. Are sentences are short sentences rather. And the stances are short sentences. So each sentence has its own stands. -- it if each each new flawed we're you know stands it means a room -- for room and attack. So it's it's it. Each line. Each stands it's like going into sort of new place into new to a different room. -- to another room take a new room."

" A new room but. This is a poem called nostalgia. The late at night. The black water. Lights to -- the entire perimeter. Their shaky reflections. The dark trees line. The plot clapping of water around appear. Creaking boats. The creaking here."

" The voices in conversation. And discussion."

" Two men adults. Serious inflections. The words themselves. Just out of reach. A rusty screen door spring. Then the door swinging shut. Footsteps on -- porch. The scrape of -- wooden chair. Footsteps. Shuffling through sand. Animated youthful voices how many distinct."

" Disappearing."

" A sudden go for. Some giggles a woman's know a young girls sarcastic reply. Someone -- assertion. A high pitched mail tackle. Somewhere else a child laughing. Bugs rappers. Tires worrying along the pavement. Not stopping. Receding."

" Shadows from passing headlights. A cat's eyes caught in headlights."

" No moon. Connect the dot constellations. Filling the black sky. The legal of the big dipper not quite directly overhead. The radio tower across the lake signaling. Muffled quacking near the shore. A fraud belching. Crickets Katie is Katie -- etc. Their relentless sexual messages. A sudden gust of wind. Branches brushing against each other pine. Beach. The fiberglass hull tapping against the dock."

" A sudden chill."

" The smell of smoke wood stove fires. A -- going out. A dog barking. Then -- barking from another part of the lake."

" The burst of quiet laughter. Someone in the distance calling someone to -- out. Steps on a creaking porch. Screen doors spring. -- the door banging shot."

" Another light going out. He must have just undressed for bed."

" My bare feet on the sprint three peer. Turning away from the war."

" So an emotional time capsule. Detail Meredith. Suggestion. Let me ask a simple question. America's simple minded question how did those images come to you and when we've compiling. You. You saving them for months to come quickly. -- one."

" I you really had this just this chair he kind of overwhelming and almost magical experience. Standing at the edge of -- lake. And I started writing that right away. Other homes. There's no pattern. I wish to word I wish I could predict what's gonna. What's gonna happen next that he."

" Why didn't it in the matches professional connection -- We're just thinking very widely about the vitality the quality the variety the communities poetry and here. In New England in this hood so to speak but in this age. The age of Obama of the web of the Internet -- anything the digital age. If you had to give the report to Mars or to Shakespeare to. The the stated that there aren't. In -- time -- If they -- quit passport you doing. Great -- you live in torrents with cancer."

" Great. It's great to so many good poets there's so many interest in poets. There's so many poets who are different from one another I mean I think that's maybe that's one of the things that's a little bewildering to us. To an audience that isn't in the middle of that world that you hear. You know five poets read and -- and what do they what do they have in common aside from the English language. And yet there is this vitality theories this. -- is a wonderful kind of colloquial in this and in various degrees. -- seem to be talking to us not just pontificating. On her you know were chanting. Although there's some of that too. And their a lot of very good poets. Around and the room and working hard. And being very different from one another and being. You know. Being true to their own. Inner voices I mean all these cliches that it."

" The worries -- your book publication and books yeah. The component in hand. What does what of the compensating. -- simulations. But let's put it further but what's the upsetting. Energy in the Porter --"

" Well I you know people still wanna be published. And that. Her parents are very sad news. A few days ago that one of our most distinguished quarterly tri quarterly. One of the best literary magazines in the country is going to stop publishing in book form and two goes directly on line. And the editors resigning. The most I mean we're sitting here in the grolier bookshop surrounded by these marvelous books that you can hold in your hand. And turn the pages. And I would profoundly missed. But people are still reading columns and there are a lot of good columns are published online to. You know can remove it seems to me more and more people. Did it maybe discuss this is the last. Twenty years or maybe even longer going back to you know to the beat poets where. -- reading poems aloud to an to an interest in. And appreciative audiences. Is is is has become a real. Force in the in the poetry world and it's incredibly gratifying if it's something you like to do. I would try to."

" Indonesian. Version of the Proust. Christian neighborhood I'm. What talent would you most loved to have that you don't."

" I would have been an actor I was an actor for awhile and I and I. I'm sorry I'm not acting which probably one of the reasons that I write monologues. Character pieces but that was money. Create ambition and I still and I knew I took it for awhile and I still -- Hoosier I deal artist. In another medium."

" Gotta say Shakespeare. Gotta say Rembrandt."

" But also from here."

" what do people think you are when you walk down the street."

" That some old gothic with a lot of gray hair."

" How many people in the -- it would recognized as part. Almost done that but people say oh that guy looks like he's a professor."

" What's the key note your personality as part. I would like it to be I was like people to think. And honesty. And a sense of humor. What's that quality you most -- and perform. Immediacy. I wanna be moved I want to be in the world that the poet is spreading about. Put your motto."

" look for anything. Yeah that looks -- more towards thank you so much."

" You're reading for your work for your. For your being a great institution in this town -- Thanks Chris due to. Paul -- this conversation with Lloyd -- Helped find -- way through all the words. Thanks to devoted portable -- from making -- sort of studio between their shelves also to the Massachusetts courtroom festival. For helping us roundup deploys. Thanks to this does leave a comment or appalled that our website radio open sourced on board and thanks to all for joining the conversation. I'm Christopher like yeah."