Title: Skeptics Guide #221 - Oct 14 2009

" You're listening to the skeptics guide to give you give us your escape. -- reality."

" Hello and welcome to the skeptics guide to the universe today is Wednesday October 14 2000. This is your host Stephen Novella joining -- this week -- Bob Novella everybody jaded about guys and -- Bernstein. October 14. 1947 Chuck Yeager a World War II fighter pilot in the first humans fly faster than just keeps -- that guy is totally kickass is awesome. -- I saw him in the sequence drilling. Tell myself going by very very fast. Who's driving by and -- with Bob Hope no way of Canada. The Bob Hope yet -- of hope of course it was that President Bush's inaugural speeches."

" Now I know your line I was living in this is the time with. In the among the millions of people wherever people I thought I thought I saw you on TV as they drove by a a lot of people yelled out we love you -- you referring to Bob Hope. Soon I think most of the people in the crowd didn't recognize that. Chuck Yeager was sitting next to him to and so so that the -- group of people and I was with shouted we love -- Cost of -- conjure up the -- I have read courts. That Steve did you try to get him for an interview. Just like here's a skeptic then that's wasn't even a twinkle it and her I had to point out -- I haven't even I hadn't even met area at that point plug that it. Loan and well no Rebecca tonight because she is on a slow boat to China. Motorola not the worst you go literal how awesome is Africa seen out of Indiana Jones or something -- rickety boat steaming along. You think that she's having your drinking contest with guns and a bit. -- Which our present something. Maybe it's vote she could play that role to -- and apparently triggered becoming that Rebecca leads a very interesting life the two interest. Yeah. -- oh she's -- around the globe for left here to do the podcast we haven't reached into you coming up later witness doctor Jack Warner. World famous paleontologist. -- You betcha but first some news items. NASA apparently is very unhappy with the moon and decided to shoot it Newton -- the moon."

" Right with with the probe to actually do twice it's pretty bittersweet event I take. But if you're gonna wear this past Friday October ninth NASA's. L cross off flight mission and it -- and will look across Whitney is prints -- across yeah a lot of you know we -- not Bob -- I've only I've only ever read it I guess so much here on -- article -- cross. On the flight mission collided at this this past. Friday that it doesn't west's with a much -- double Clayson on the moon which is pretty cool. I two separate objects were hurled into a permanently shaded seven krater. In the hopes of verifying their frozen water exists on a moon which would of course be a huge boon for future. -- millions if they ever get there. On the idea that NASA heavily promoted. Some would say promoted too much -- and the public was expecting. Was at the oh crush -- it would fly through the plume. Created by the first impact detecting water and and -- it would of course impact the moon itself -- the second impact. The big disappointment that day was had no -- was kicked up. I was funny yeah I remember seeing a computer generated demo the day before. And it showed this beautiful Kaiser of debris that's called he's checked at shooting. Space words. And doesn't -- cool -- I can't wait to see if nocturnal ejected now nice nice one. By the people who got a brilliant haven't the next morning -- troops are themselves some some people had their had their own telescopes. Some people drove out there to relate to it. I guess I'm not sure where they went to one of the -- that they cancer Nasser where they they showed the public videos are they were especially disappointed. The project scientist -- the -- prep day I mentioned one possibility to deport the performing plume. He said that perhaps to boost reading here this one he says perhaps a booster and spacecraft hit the inner wall to crater at an angle. And because you did you -- an angle the -- kind of went sideways instead of up and out and he said that luck plays a part in this. He added that we have the data we need to address two questions we have and that's the bottom much I guess that's the important thing that. They even know there was in its eyes this debris cloud that was that was kicked out. They still say the date they need to they have everything that they need images pouring over. Tons and tons of the stated to really see you know exactly what kind of information they can glean from it. -- pretty himself suggested that we probably won't know definitively of these republic won't. Until December science -- so could be a month or so before we really get any any new big news -- of -- but that's how science works its quirky you know you could argue against that. And maybe -- shouldn't have hyped it's so much. That led to -- which is appointment because it didn't you know perform. Didn't go exactly as planned but still. Of the tickets and could sides in there and hopefully they'll find some evidence of of the water that would be so valuable. -- in the future. I've never stories before that they've. Determine -- ones there has been frozen water on on the mound the other -- other tests have shown that there was that this would have been some really definitive evidence at -- it. If if that probe could have -- and of flown through the vaporized. Pace that would have been really interstate."

" Well that's from my understanding though I -- I never thought that there was ice. Chunks of ice or ice. In the in the moon -- a list I thought it was more of like it was a part of the rocket was it was like inside Iraq. Where they have to like meltdown the Iraq to get to the water out. Logic the idea said that essentially that. The -- is pretty drive in the rock and break it with I think are still considered to be you know pretty drive for a little water they didn't find any. Fleas or anything like that that would indicate. Prior presence of -- I think Tim domain idea now is that it's. That if anyone is that that's the -- would be from very very old -- commentary impacts. That would have left ice and these permanently shaded areas that couldn't. It -- day evaporate away and heat. And added dimension eight deferred for millions of years literally and just waiting to be you know to be detected."

" And it could -- the interest in all this is who will mean wanna know how much water in which is theirs is that if we build a base somewhere. On the moon we wanted to -- which Warner what are ruby need to bring to sustain the -- and -- quarter can be mined from. The permanent shadow you know craters that are creating some permanent shadow. And the obvious in the uses I guess are pretty operas for water obviously. Drinking water operative for the congress at that could live there but also fuel as well. Yeah split it cute but the charges and not a -- and has. Team oxygen to breathe and -- for fuel though TV's hydrogen for fuel woody and apparently. Matches that it would work -- that. Brady converted back with the oxygen that's -- loss -- right. Soledad this so it's as I continued on to bring them. -- to bring witted guys have to bring in. Current resource and energy. Another astronomy news item has been some news with saturn's rings. Couple of things actually one is that the Spitzer telescope has discovered. A new ring around Saturn is the by far. The largest of its rings. It says the -- is tilted 27 degrees from the main ring playing. It starts about six million kilometers away from the planet and extends outward another twelve kilometers. It's vertical height is about twenty times the diameter of Saturday itself says is that NASA does is it -- diffuse ring. That just has been -- until this point and."

" I can't believe that we can still miss things like that you know weenie break right within our own solar system something that huge but it's a subtle and it and -- today -- it's kind of -- they show these these these incredible pictures it is red gargantuan ring protected Jupiter -- you really can't. Pretty pictures of cubic DC where -- to concede. The -- aren't you bring you can't it's very very subtle. You know but still is a -- picture cool artist's conception of their future Frederick red ring."

" There's other news about saturn's rings though as well -- looking at the rings of Saturn they have a very curious feature that we don't know for awhile. That's some of the rings are blue in late grooves on record right they're not discrete concentric rings. They actually. Sort of -- and energetic yet act like there's only -- And more -- more like the cruiser record exactly. And as it's very curious. Feature but recent Cassini. Studies of saturn's rings to show that this feature is actually more widespread throughout the ring system that was previously thought and that. This could mean that around 25 years ago there was something dramatic happens that disrupted the ring system around Saturn. But it was masked by a Ukrainian. Observations at the time so whatever happened twenty tigers who witnessed it needed we can pick it up any of our telescopes. Are really visualize. What the event with this mystery event might have been by distinctive ring system is that it was perturbed about 25 years ago but something. Holy crap I missed that has an interest in -- inference at this point but there's definitely some lots of complex structure in the rings and that's really challenging. Our theoretical models about how they form."

" There's something very noble looking about a ring around a planet -- it's a very iconic image and yes and to enjoy him why can. Apparently -- rings -- won't be there -- sound to remind you can guess so but during during my hyper extended lifespan I -- I guess -- VO -- joy it brings a -- for one another you know -- what is that millionaires so that's turning your head on that robot body ten million years from now. And our men are. Or I remember when Bob told an on the actually have an old -- voice ten years in the future. I've got more like this. -- America. I'm Bob told me there rings will one day and can an attacker who could result in 1950s robot race in the it Kate tell us about that a cat. Well a -- Of course all of you guys have heard about hypnosis yes I'm curious to ask all the view it ever want to give us a quick definition of what you think hypnosis it's. It is."

" The sub. And so it's their sub conscious sort of being brought forth and taking over. You're more active conscious about it on a ticket is. I've ever hit here you have it to say that all have notes is his self hypnosis. But it's take affiliated protective bottom line it says to -- hot and very highly suggestive of state. State of mind Steve how would you decide it it's well it's -- not really clear. I'm exactly there's no neurological lead that it actually is a -- state or not probably isn't. It probably I think the closest we have is what but said he a state in which some it is. -- suggest double."

" When I asked myself this question before I started. Reading about this article -- what I'm about to explain to you guys I kind of answered it more that was the way Evan did I was like and I hit those jets cattle like your subconscious mind in. The fact is that a -- a lot of stuff about it. I was actually hoping that you would have a a much more defined answer as a neurologist that really nobody really. Quite understands what it is other than people enter a more suggest a Ball State. They're relaxed. And they're they're more focused on. The inside in the outside meaning that they're not really -- to becoming less aware of what's around them more aware of themselves."

" But that's a good word I think it is a matter of focusing it certainly isn't it's not a train ants. It's probably not a discrete neurological state it's not like dreaming or waking dreams vs consciousness or even. Even drowsiness I think it's just the way people are focusing. Their thoughts and their attention. And certainly there's a huge variability in susceptibility. To it. I think there is a lot of belief that it's. The individual who's being -- doing all the hard work grain in that it it has to do it then that the hit details that that this is not. Really doing anything except suggesting to somebody that they are in this state."

" It was originally defined by the person who you know discovered it I guess would be the right way. As sleep of the nervous system. Which -- which seems to be very inaccurate today but at the time that's probably what they thought was happening so anyways so let me get on to to why it. Past August. So recently our reporter named Chris Jackson. Who hosts a show inside out in the UK surprisingly. Successfully registered his cat named George with three prominent hypnosis organizations in the UK. The British board of neuro linguistic programming. The united fellowship of it now therapists and the professional hit a therapy practitioners association. He did -- just came up with an organization called the society of certified advanced mine therapists. And -- he claimed that its catalogue to this take organization. They all accepted the certificate that he sent them from the fake organization and his cat. George became a member of these three organizations which basically. Proves that it's very easy to get our credentials as a hip no therapist. The net effect of all this was shows showing that you know. If this isn't really. I don't know how to put that it's not a legitimate science it's not a legitimate cracked."

" Let's just doesn't say anything about hypnosis itself right this is only really an investigation of the regulation of hypnosis says it uses standard of care -- the self regulation right of hypnosis by these societies by these groups aren't what this doesn't dare not vetting their members. You send them there to check for however much money it costs and -- you know you get the certified. Steve doesn't that's an act of you know becoming certified as a homeopathic or any you know it's like yeah I do think that. These these two things tend to go hand in hand. In -- loose criteria for joining. Organization getting certified and nine and having low standards of evidence insights with in the field itself I think you loose standards and but in these two areas go hand in hand. But they are distinct. And it doesn't necessarily. Mean that hypnosis is now legitimate. I think that there's I'm a lot of organizations using hypnosis therapeutic -- And going way beyond what the evidence really supports. In terms in terms with the claims that they're making and then there are those who go beyond. Just. Exaggerating claims to -- pseudo -- like using hypnosis for past life regression. There effort."

" Yeah I would I would say -- as a skeptic I have a more negative connotation. Towards it just because. We can't show why. Why it what it is very we can't we can't actually prove or logically that something is occurring. We we would I would have definitely read that today that it would take place I believe. And you know the fact that urine neurologist -- years you're saying hey are we don't know exactly what it is I mean he's figured there'd be some type of of plausibility here. You know NEC a lot of things on the Internet like these people they can relate that the more showmanship levels suffered these guys that get people gore on the stage acting like chickens into it's let's us Dave -- which has nothing to do with therapeutic if it is. Let you know I I've. I've heard of people going to get hypnotized to lose weight lose weight smoking -- all all of -- habits and so forth. Yeah it does no evidence but it but it applications so so my question to you then Steve. Is what's -- for what would be used for."

" Yeah exactly and I don't I don't think that there are really any scientifically proven. -- therapeutic applications of it like a relaxation of -- the exact that's exactly does this say betting beyond just relaxation. And then you're just talking about another term for. Relax. Right which can charge a lot more money having equipment for her has been a relaxation especially. -- Steve would you draw any parallels between -- self hypnosis and transcendental meditation. Well I think that's there are many systems. Like certain kinds of hypnosis transcendental meditation. And biofeedback. I'm yoga that. Well yoga as a physical component to it as well. That essentially are elaborate ritualized. Two versions of relaxation. And in the end what these studies have demonstrated for these and types of things is that they have the benefits that you would expect from. Relaxation. And not really anything beyond that may be it might help some people to relax. But they give me in the final analysis -- just elaborate forms I'm just getting somebody to get back take a break from their busy day. And focus -- reduce address -- stress and relax. That's and the other man -- you call it transcendental meditation and you know -- That tournament as an implication -- that goes beyond that. I'm sipping from hypnosis. You do anything to to people who wanna quit smoking and a certain percentage of them -- is probably. The same people who and equipment -- what you do. The ritual doesn't really matter. Yeah there's there's no evidence that there aren't that there's something of value added to the ritual of hypnosis. You when -- placebo effect kind of benefit but then what how do you separate a placebo effect from the people who gonna quit anyway -- that is my appointments that that's sort of saying -- this is."

" Indistinguishable it was interesting for me to start doing research on this on this article and on hypnosis because. I sound right away that I definitely had. An opinion -- about -- obviously right -- it's part of our culture have already come to some conclusions about it mostly. You know unconsciously I'd say just you know it it okay last week or wherever and dinner are showing in my pocket watch and instead you're just didn't -- therapy and learning more about it I don't remember about government. So I I gave it another try to hit the reset button and sent a -- how many do all this -- get a -- read about it let -- let my opinion be changed -- I find today in a dated every red. All the stuff for our view of doing this research I found that there was no conclusive evidence either way. I couldn't find I couldn't find anything that I thought had any weight to it."

" I don't see a lot of studies a total lowered blood pressure does it might solve the same thing it's again if it's anything that gets you to relax we'll have the same kind of effects. But there are organizations. Dedicated to hypnosis is a therapeutic mentality. They gain seeking legitimacy by getting lice insurance forming institute in certifying people. And can dissenting shows that with a lot of these kind of things the self regulation. Can be pretty lax. Yet in my in my only a problem with with the -- that is some journalists pulled a heated news is that code. It would have been far better to have -- it. But I have noticed -- look at any relation to the hippocampus."

" It's hippocampus is -- and I that what happens unfortunately all too readily is that states -- government. Well licensee a profession -- handover of regulation to the profession itself. Right isn't saying you regulate ourselves you rule license union that MTV's -- which basically means you have to pay as. And it becomes a method of discouraging competition. But not really a method for quality control which is always how it's sold it is just one piece of evidence that it really is in serving the purpose of quality control. That the proponents. Soledad -- Right picked up yet. What more quickly resolved before going too few questions we've been. Keeping you up to date on Simon Singh's. Legal wranglings width of the British chiropractic association. One that small update good news is Simon had previously appealed the decision actually asked for permission to appeal. The judge's decision. That he would have to defend his case on the basis of the interpretation. That his criticism. Of the British chiropractic association that they'd happily promote -- therapies means that. All of the members of the British chiropractic association. Do not believe their claims that they're consciously committing fraud which is probably intended it is almost an impossible standard -- He asked previously asked for permission to appeal that decision he was turned down. He appealed. That decision and was recently. I'd given permission to appeal. By the word that's really the guy's name the -- just -- It's a whole black candidate it's gotta be title. The that this is it according to -- sense about science who has again been in -- for closes they report that this morning at the Royal Courts of Justice. Simon Singh was granted leave to appeal the preliminary ruling and meaning in his level case with the BCA. In his judgment lord justice laws that said there is no dispute that -- original article in the is in the public interest with no suspicion of malice and there's no question of good faith. Good -- but although lord justice laws is that really that guy's name."

" And both ethnic to have that sounds like there's Sukarno was. And that's that's Stanley Kubrick you -- in his first name is justice c'mon right Estes was a judge was a judge -- Israel meant to -- it -- it. Major Kong and beat Japan number are completely give up Paul the second is. Justice loads. Make maybe maybe speaks with such a heavy accent that nobody can really and everything and it's it's it's -- I think -- did justice. Is that title but the guy's name is John laws. Search on oh my god lord justice laws Jackson got a it Tuesday. Consider that primitive -- pretty interest indicted need as dead and a optical doctor kill patient but it."

" If it. Let's go to a few questions question number one comes from David lingered from London England how -- did -- linger. No. But it didn't David writes. Okay not exactly faster than light travel but I thought this quite interesting nevertheless earth to Mars of 39 days please please please let this be true. Given the -- in my -- key witness concerning such subjects I thought this one of nineteen -- in point of discussion personally as inspected double B in the deet -- and several years of proving. Lay ahead but every day that maintenance getting closer and cheaper PS keep up the good work I'll keep my eye out for the Bostonians in London. Do that he's -- means Rebecca give me directly if that's correct finally Bostonians London the song and somewhere. About tells about the new fancy plasma right."

" Well anyway it's -- about what you're in that state but he wrote an erode David lingered London England than he wrote governor governor. Government. Should have written. Called hot and cold."

" I thought so David thank you for the question that. He's -- it's pretty interest in the bottom line. The likelihood of getting to Mars 39 days using this technology. Seems very -- That's all you gotta say that's another here and they had -- David I got. I don't give American a few more details. I took to put that into perspective though. Going did -- using conventional chemical rockets would take. I've heard lots of different numbers can recourse -- 160 days. I came across. A 130 days with the press take its sepia -- somehow you figured out there's high speed transfer orbits so. Regardless it cute this is a huge huge improvement 39 days compared to say 200 days which commits a technology that that's very very good. I did it it's it's really is a big deal and pretty exciting. One reason is that space travelers who are saying. -- it's not like Star Trek where or other part of the science fiction to those stars -- buyer cool colorful worm -- tunnels. Or green scantily clad women out now. While you could what kind of -- now on you can bring with it data did you ever think about the other ships we would send her small. You know wouldn't be like they'd have to a large living space -- never imagined being on us you know cooped up with it if you people for 200 days. You know it was really help. No wonder I've never come across despite. Isn't pretty obvious that virtual reality would be the waited to do with that that crushing feeling -- that you have a -- that you apply here. I have -- that I."

" Just feel -- Wii is nothing compared to exposure to radiation micro gravity which her. In a pretty much to rotating at Destin and -- worst to anything never reduces the transit time. It's a really really good thing on but the technology itself is pretty state you guys -- ten years ago deep space one was a probe. They sent to the space the test or ticket has spent per a suite of technologies including an I undated what this is a very similar. This this new widget that we're talking in my -- very similar to that deep space 1 I -- energy. At that that they reduce was reference say this specifically is called the -- of Merv that's a mere. Engine which is short for variable specific impulse may veto plasma rocket these engines use radio -- heat gas is like -- got. Which creates a plasma and how are you guys all know what plasma is an hour right to. To material but when that he matter. It's heated writes the most common state of matter it's meant heated so much that the electrons is kind assays hostilities that they. They kind of fly away to get this up particles soup of positive nuclear odds and negative electrons. The -- is made of plasma to most of -- former matter except for dark matter of course that now including dark matter it's what -- write a periodic manner. So something everybody should kind of be aware of I think. I now the plasma itself once it's generated. It's -- contained in a magnetic field kind of like fusion reactor talk a Mac reacted that they've they've been working out for 4567. Decades now. They use of magnetic field to accelerate. To accelerate the -- plasma and out. The acceleration itself resides is caused by the of the rams -- took that one up it's pretty to state so the the plasma -- ejected at the back leadership at a very high velocity. Are creating for a press for the ships and that's kind of lets you know in a nutshell very. High level how it works as so many. So many complicated bits to -- I can't even some of most of it came to understand that's pretty much how works but the key thing here if you remember the an acronym. That's a -- variable specific impulse. Specific impulse is if there is a key concept and rocket propulsion. Basically specific imposed describes how how propellant deficient and engineers. It's like miles per gallon or liters per kilometer. If you are -- metric for our car. The higher the specific impulse the -- propellant that you needed to gain momentum you want to this is a very very important. Bit of information about about rockets at it you can basically equated to how fast. How -- the propellant is exiting to back of the back of a ship it's kind of -- that writes about this this thing is highly efficient engine. Right to highly efficient engine the first comparison a chemical rocket will service will have a specific impulse of less than 500 seconds. Where assists this that's America engine could have a specific impulse of its 6000. Seconds or more so. So clearly the velocity that the velocity of the propellant coming out its its is much much higher than a chemical -- and the faster you can you -- going. The lesson that you need. Exactly that's and that's a key right there but that -- just because it's energy efficient. This doesn't mean that it's energy efficient now it's up like a green Iraq interacting like that because. A lot of times that you need more power to support your higher fuel efficiency of sorts not -- measure fuel efficiency. It's propellant deficiency rate it really propel -- deficiencies ultimate fuel exactly exactly. How long until we have the streak. While today this -- invest -- or just ion engine in general we've had -- for awhile -- this was saying this was a test -- this -- The first plasma -- to break 200 kilowatt. There -- so was a huge huge. Milestone for these people and it was a really great thing they did in now. It seduces this mouse so what now that this has met they're gonna -- this -- to the space station which is awesome awesome music. If a contact with the NASA to change the thrusters. Because. It's -- save so much fuel. The space station uses X seven and have tons of chemical rocket propellant. You -- for -- keeping to make sure that cannot. I -- lower close to the atmosphere because of atmospheric drag is always try to pull the station down. -- to use chemical -- conventional rockets to boost their orbit. If they use this stuff you don't use eight point three times so what do to save millions and millions of dollars despite. Using this -- to help with their orbit. Do one more question this one comes from Eric -- in Austin Texas writes I'm sure of right now you have all heard of this men. Who has appeared in hundreds of people streams -- use a link to this man dot award -- I actually never heard of this man."

" And I rightfully so. Right over there have been no. But while there's little history here -- so often as the title -- ever dream about this man. Every night throughout the world hundreds of people's dream about this face initial -- picture sketch drawing nova. Man have an ugly -- with the unit -- city yours that we. And a male pattern baldness kinda thing going on than a Republican. -- autos so. Little little -- kind of field yeah Olivier looks like the head of was a hobby it would look like acquire this website. It was January 2006 and in New York City. Where the patient of a well known psychiatrist draws the face of the man that had been repeatedly appearing in her trains. In more than one occasion the -- give her advice on her private life elements where she'd never met the man foreigner like and that portrait. -- forgotten on the psychiatrist tests on the psychiatrists desk for a few days. Until one day another patient happens by and recognizes the drawing in the face. And says oh I'm often visited by a man in my dream as well so the psychiatrist. The size of sand portrait to other colleagues at all over the world and they all have. Patients that if recognize -- as well. Now right off."

" I had to say that story sounds like total BS. Yeah I know I mean and it's so contrived. In the woman drew a picture of the parent or treat me EB in the psychiatrist -- the hang out on his desk for another client to see. Could not have not possible but it certainly not appropriate. And it -- all sounds contrived they just don't buy that story."

" And -- pioneer and then of course the snowball effect and over. From 2006 until today announced 2000 people or more -- claimed. They've seen this exact case in their dreams. Los Angeles people from Berlin San Paolo they are Beauceron. I mean first of all the the united dreams it that people have an eight. It -- of people out there it's it isn't that much of a coincidence -- Well there -- some prevailing theories as to what's going on here by people all over the globe. Are reportedly. Seeing that space this man this man in -- so there's the archetype theory. According to -- Carl he owns Psycho analytic -- this man is an. Archetype image belonging to the collective unconscious and circus in times of parched. And religious theory. This -- the image of the creator. On and it's the Foreman which gotten god manifests himself today. In the seventies it was George Burns but you know apparently in 2006 to 2009 it's this odd look -- And they say the most interest and one is the dream surfer theory. Them which has the lowest scientific credibility. -- that scientific credibility but that's another point. According to this. Dream surfer theory of the man is a real person who can enter people's dreams by means of specific psychological skills to explode but. Is that yes and most of about it. That's me in."

" That's about the level would do it. Or at the how about how about this is eight as stupid belief that it spread by the Internet feed. This -- that's all exit as -- said you know we've beaten. It's been lots of people having lots of dreams of finding a common thread is not a big deal and you have retro fitting in -- Beat this takes on what to believe that takes on the life of its own that's all we don't need anymore of a hypothesis then that. We could test that iPod does and maybe we should actually do this week it try to start. Our own dream team if you will and Steve begin to take off the -- Come up with some random stupid picture but TM many people eventually will report dates in --"

" See if there's enough people on the world. That guy existed Knesset if there's a dude out their looks just like that guy probably six point seven billion people that probably somebody at their local loudly at that. We should find. Which should we should find Mets had met that guy like they had in. It took quite got to be awesome -- his convention. And you bring the guy ended -- and those two dozen people that trip that have a little onyx -- his second. -- scans of the person who created this site and it's been traced back to this person Andrea patella. From Italy and expose -- guerilla market here so this -- with some sort of just. Generic viral campaign for yet. Right and -- In a quarter -- this one website he is quote a sociologist. Specializing in market. And he wants wrote an article about the origins of the subversive views of of the hoax. -- you know how to maximize its potential so -- You at -- my hypothesis are very United States now that -- zone. Nothing going on but I mean this is this is one of of so he's doing the experiment to propel. -- to death with a decent. It is really want more stupid things to come across -- it's kind of a fun Internet thing it is but at the same time. -- could only look at it can't we do something else there but."

" Well I guess we should just go --"

" You're talking now with doctor Jack cornerback 200 welcome to discuss these guys. Hello and doctor -- is a world famous -- paleontologist. Specializing in dinosaurs he is the author of many books including his most recent book how to build a dinosaur. Extinction doesn't have to be forever. Did you live live and work primarily in -- at Montana State University. There's a lot to talk to you about but I didn't the good news -- that prompted. I was contacting you for this interview. I was in National Geographic article. Claiming that as many as a third of dinosaur species never existed can you tell us about that."

" Well my latest research group number of different colleagues including mark good -- none of Berkeley and one of my graduate students John's been a lot. And when my staff members LO YM. The focus is long and looking at. Dinosaur on conjuring basically the group of dinosaurs. Many years ago paleontologists think Peter Dawson. Look at a bunch of stuff don't dinosaurs and it's kind of statistical analysis of them and came to the conclusion that. Some. Species were actually juvenile also some other. Elements that had been and so. But. Over the years that was back in the 1970s. And then over the years people sort of forgot that steady and one of the reasons they forgot their clothes both. In order to do it study it like that you have to have lots and lots -- disposal. From one formation. And so. Back in the year 2000. Problem for 1999 and I started a project in the hell creek formation of Montana here too. Collect as much material as possible from the formation. And other words. Go out and and literally collect everything. And we've been doing that for eleven years now. And we've got an enormous collection of triceratops. And -- And couldn't -- will dinosaurs and all sorts of things and are now able to seat. Arms underneath. For instance. We've got sixteen years old -- triceratops. And now Arab juveniles for the first time and -- want to series so that we can see the changes that triceratops undergoes genetic codes to. Pretty severe changes mean drastic -- And in fact. Going from juvenile -- warns that the current backwards. To adults that. Collins -- forward all the way up to the dinosaur horror story. We now have evidence that Taurus Taurus and triceratops -- phenomenal."

" Is Eric hold on the other -- overseeing. The we're I mean I'm near New Haven so that it -- some tourists are specimens at the Peabody. Regret what they are -- hurt her or adult triceratops. The same you think is true of T Rex that week has been recently been discussing. Newly discovered recently discovered species like in native -- and Rennes and all I -- directs. It is your contention that these are also different stages of type of T Rex development."

" Well national trend certainly those we've got pretty good evidence of that that amount trend was named basically it's it it it sort of small tyrannosaurus. And it wasn't -- it was given a different name because it has. Seventeen people at straws and to -- as well. And it was it was always known that dinosaurs either kept the same number of people or things got. More because they grew up. I know dinosaur ever want peace but we now intermediate between. Now and contrasts and Reynolds RS. That show that turek who lost -- grow up. So as -- as they get bigger than fewer teeth that's correct. There are fewer big -- so they sort out what the blade shaped piece -- and it. Start losing people that -- achieved to -- actually a bigger stir outer bone crushing anti. So to route serves and and -- supple our business community looked up and we've been able to some anonymous. -- correct. -- more -- and tactics supple our all of the -- it's."

" And I think that the controversy. In terms of for this view comes from defected this presupposes. A more dramatic more full logical change in -- dinosaur groups as they age. Then we generally find elsewhere in the animal kingdom. Do you think that's --"

" Well it depends on how you look at a time. If you've ever seen account -- Larry I don't know -- where it grows. Grows up almost all grown. And Olympic gold crest spout spout some public had in the last 20% of its gross."

" But still this is. The ball extremely interesting. Controversy and low cut your genuine -- you friendly controversies within -- it really tells you -- think as you've said. The of the process is more important in the answer. And the number reveals the process of science. -- also reading on this and the articles by Robert Baker who I think takes the other point of view it like specifically with -- syphilis Doris. That he contends. That he has the specimen of the juvenile packet samples Taurus that is different than. Either I'm trick directors or a state of blocks of -- where does that. Controversies that."

" Well first up you know it isn't hasn't been public know scientifically I can't do anything with that. I mean you have to that he's going to have kept our paper comes out and he's gonna have to public Baptist if he can also are a pop up I can't. You know to peace he has something in his basement that he's not. Let anyone see in just -- people like outlook. And it doesn't do me any good whatsoever. I haven't I haven't Tennessee's that's not in the literature yet I'm glad it happened just just for your information we didn't happen until genetic series. But techie -- just like we do triceratops and -- a source I mean. We're not just guessing that's a cool thing about this this eleven -- study is that we've got. A lot of these and we can seek immediate debt. I don't know we've we've got the bombs little little note on the back of -- Other juvenile. That -- so close source. That he could just follow as they get big turning into big spikes didn't reduce back down to -- again and no and enhance -- little harder. The interest they -- interest and then moved at all to do a lot cork. -- spikes that we have found they don't sound any to a that are actually the same point. So a lot of variability there anyway. Exactly. And it all. -- actually is -- to genetics there. In other words the big ones and a little ones are very different kind of -- skull."

" And what about doctor Baker's point is that and I in order to interpret that. -- logically as it you know at different stages of growth -- for the parties have closed source that would require. The had spikes to dramatically reduce in size as they got older and he says that -- it is -- precedent for that that'd generally speaking horns. Once they hear they only get bigger obviously take the other point of view but it but it -- which her answer to that --"

" But let it just goes up as an example that Vietnam. Before -- answer a question let me just tell you about triceratops. Triceratops. Serbs are foreign dinosaurs or sister to -- social supports or dinosaurs and don't go to dinosaurs are -- in a group. And the margin as a failure in other words or sister tax that basically. Trait Paris -- does the same thing on the until the girl. It grows these very large triangular loans that are -- They got circles and they get they start out little triangle. And a growth that big triangle. And then. And Seattle continues to ensure those big triangles. Reduced backed down and flatten out against the Euro -- and we count. -- sixties cult suddenly. We have an incredible arm to genetic -- series showing. That these triangular bone and reduce inside. -- Other groups -- the -- subtle words and were saying that they basically do the same thing hurt despite some back of the scrum will also -- Be on the trial could do exactly the same thing they get longer and and they get shorter. And we cut is simply done an apology. We've done has stalled the on the dome. And indeed. During the initial phases those. -- are growing and they show fast growing don't and then it comes to a halt. And then we see. Retort should go on reserve the -- actually getting smaller."

" There has a logical markers at that yet now we have great images and looked. And in a paper that student press right now -- ones that do not an Internet."

" So do you think that the -- National Geographic headline about a third maybe a third of dinosaur species may be combined. I in this way do you think that's fair and accurate. In -- I would look currently. The -- that that's that's is that quote specifically from you. Okay and let's get back to team actually -- ECB -- nano Terry Ennis have you had a chance to form an opinion about -- directs."

" Well I you know rhetoric certainly didn't think claimants from our early cretaceous -- I'm a little skeptical about that -- Even whether it is or isn't doesn't matter and it. -- direct appointment juvenile characteristic. Of eternal. -- that big guys and the -- they cut -- in fact we we did that on astrology here and are allowed to edit and I've seen that I didn't mean there. It looks to me like juvenile wrong."

" So maybe a juvenile of something if till later he -- species and -- may be related species you're still not really buying. And it's."

" Aren't I don't know I'd -- it certainly isn't it's a juvenile tyrannosaurus some sort there's no doubt about that. The question is whether they have the geology correctly as far as I know I mean they didn't collect that the numbers. Apparently already collected than any state guest on the formation McCain based on some fish vertebrate."

" Yeah for our audience he tells what what the process speed let's see you know let's say there -- you you reach consensus. Yeah in the among dinosaur paleontologists say okay -- acts as a juvenile T Rex. What's the process. Then to change. The naming convention to Beasley -- to remove species status from it and get rid of that that tax economical designation."

" directly I don't know what -- Google and you wanna do Mormon or no timeliness seeds we think that you know trying to ask is there. Is a tyrannosaurus Rex therefore it's just plain and on a modest trying to resurrect. Was named first and therefore. Cannot trying to won't just be an on the -- what he wrecked."

" But who ultimately makes that decision. Is her body within an intelligent ultimately to make it officially in a terrorists is now synonymous."

" Leaders of and it's written paper and it becomes officials. And the paper to paper that we have done an unknown mark good -- you know coming out and -- one -- not. So not minding packaged up close -- a lot to direct Iraq doesn't just thought that sometimes some compromises all of you know and -- paparazzi is also announced reduced fine. To do a lot and animal skull was spikes. And as big as -- sample source community. Pretty easy to do theoretically it's possible for all the other accomplishments saying goes -- that are trying to him. And the triceratops and our customers."

" Right we just need more specimens basically."

" And upfront and so just logically power source. All of -- or specimens -- all mature and they all have. That everyone we've cut has just astrology that shows that they are more mature than any person and of course there."

" And with every chance to look at some of the files is a you have to with they have to pretty much stick up their own and didn't do -- themselves."

" Net income -- similar papers are published bright open open to the public open purple. I'm gonna respect other people couldn't somewhat that are stuck. He -- get from researchers and every day."

" Let's turn a little bit to another controversy. About whether or not T Rex was any predator war. He scavenger. Cotton."

" indeed do I don't you remember our if you don't -- call Ireland early published an update on what I am I use that. There's a way to teach little kids. Not to come to preconceived ideas. Or sorry -- it is just the way to ensure that. Usually start with a preconceived idea that you record one or the other. He should have evidence isn't that you need physical evidence before he can make -- iPod. And so when people say that you regular predator but they don't really have any reason that is just bad --"

" And you've obviously been you know one of the modern paleontologist who's I think on the forefront of popularizing. The sites of of paleontology to department of the public obviously. And to sit around and I know you've said in the other interviews that. You think that you're academic work and popularizing. Your work largest one in the same thing which -- we we heartily endorse. That approach among working scientists. -- so tell us about. Some of the hour every two guns because I I agree with you that you dinosaurs are sexy all kids love dinosaurs too great opportunity to teach kids about the process of science. So how do you. Dinosaur paleontology to to teach kids about science."

" Outside in the education does not so little announcement exactly what I do and I didn't. I do my best to keep my science center at very high level published in the dust -- peer reviewed -- blind peer reviewed journal. And then there's also publish for kids and in popular places. And I don't write books for kids. And write books just for the general population and well but it's all based on the science."

" And you do you do you think is that how much of an impact do you think that. I'm working scientists can have popularizing science. Compared to just the overall state of science education in this country."

" I want to that question on -- I you know. I'm -- I can -- I can answer that question better night."

" Well let's just opening the door to -- have an opinion about what's wrong with -- its case or if there's anything wrong when you do about it."

" Well like. Obviously a lot from the -- and syndication we don't teach kids to think we don't. Teach kids to. -- problems outrageous development during the terms. You'd think going to be into the -- but -- I guess you have to I think you're gonna do apparently have to teach teachers out of thank."

" Yeah I didn't -- there seems to be disconnect between. Those who are working scientists and know how to popularized and think like a scientist. And the education community that's certainly universal and I know some. Science teachers to do a good job but I think there aren't enough about the range systems systemically it doesn't --"

" Certainly are there are a lot of people it. A lot of science teachers that are very good science teachers but I think we're killing at the university level. Education. Departments are always looked down upon my. Science departments and therefore we do up. Poor job of teaching our educators. Then I think that needs to change. It's our fault they are present to a -- fault for not teaching teachers better."

" So what steps. QB do you think we need to take to fix that."

" Connecticut horse I've personally had to hit it over to the education department's. -- people and Education Department aren't aren't necessarily gonna come into the science."

" Part once you think is just a car problem of a culture among working scientists. Don't screw it. My sense is that may -- it's getting a little better and -- other famous science popularized like Carl Sagan who also sort of felt that. That educating the public about science was looked down upon. By his colleagues do you ever feel the same kind of syndrome you're looked down upon by any of your colleagues because you are writing books for the popular culture that part of the problem."

" There there was there was a little -- that -- and earlier as but I don't aren't I think it's. Changing considerably. The National Science Foundation and very much into public outreach now. Then they put quite a bit of money intact when you get it. The National Science Foundation grant to do something there's always an educational component attached to a I think. And it is changing the -- that it's changing very slowly he."

" We talk a little bit about your new book. How to build a dinosaur. We've actually talked about this overall concept that in the context of your book -- the continent of building a dinosaur. Not necessarily in the Jurassic Park mode but it just by manipulating genetics. Went to tell us about what you discussed in the book."

" Well you know develop look at the battle lot of different and that starts out -- the -- creek formation and outreach project didn't. Goes into little a lot of the work that Mary Schweitzer has been doing. Discovery of soft tissues and proteins and then there are no. And basically you know sort of comes to the conclusion that if you're gonna make a dinosaur that's not the way to do it because we can't get DNA. At least not so far in the protein Britain aren't gonna help us. So -- about it a different -- talk about the fact that. And dinosaurs. Gave rise to birds we could theoretically -- a structural engineer Burt but. We don't really know how to do that -- basically that book is about creating net chicken source. And basically doing at the very easiest way and that's used to manipulate. Switch -- genetic solutions. During embryo China and other words and arms a bird is developing and it's added. Actually flipped switches that that would cause certain. Things that happens -- for instance. There's a tale begins to develop and a bird and it has several vertebrae. And then -- Jane picks on him basically resource could pale. And infuse it into that particular style. Paula Newton and the same thing happens when the wind out of if you watch the embryo developing. Their early. Byrd actually has high standards and then. But gene takes out to -- them leaving -- with three fingers that eventually fuse together to make the -- So really to maintain at least a couple of what we would consider an historian characteristic. If we can find the gene that. -- And the gene that -- those three interest together just those seats genetic switches -- Patrick. A bird with a long -- and rather than winning and already have sounded genes are. Fourteen so. But apparently except when it -- burglar. -- And arms and hands him and he's an Internet and that -- three of the characteristics that we generally think Obama is being done historian rather than --"

" This is primarily the work -- hands Larson -- meters and two well well go to work on lapel in the end here. I've not looked at work that I have supported that -- is doing -- but don't there're others working on this file."

" Well there are there're there're some people in Singapore are walking around and then there are people at the University of Wisconsin. That are involved in on the you know anybody that -- and Eric Clapton just. Just pick a cool way to show how evolution works."

" Right wonder with the creation -- would say with when they finally meat -- chicken source."

" I also going to be a good question them and that. It's going to be interesting to have them explain how he can get and upload it stricken with a long tail -- and --"

" I don't think we'll have much for problem they seem to be pretty good about dismissing any inconvenient evidence to just say it was some laboratory monster created by and -- zionist. I think it."

" How well thank you you don't have to -- anything military and murdered go to."

" Right exactly. The united changing any teacher to -- you -- the expression net. Of entities that tied the timing and that's that it's only edited. Out what went to our research project you're working on right now."

" Well I'm still working on these oncology news and we don't the united -- besides looking at at these massive collections that we can. Got to look at on project means we we also. -- it directly tied -- interest cryptography settled so we're also beginning to look. See -- pilot genetic signals some. Evidence of evolution with the aforementioned. And electrical."

" Excellent -- this has been a fascinating interview we love talking with working scientists about their work and especially those who take the time to two. Popularize it. So. Thanks for spend some time with us you're very welcome have retreated. It's time. To shine. Off. Each week that's what the three sides decided to back. Real time when faith that I told my analyst deficit tell me which one is the thing that we're ready for this week. Bob is in -- and RA -- one scientists discover the first recorded instance of a spider species that is predominantly. Urban avarice. I -- to researchers have developed a new kind of battery for an all electric car that can be recharged as quickly as filling I think it it. And -- three scientists have discovered a plant species that grows exclusively in the flash of living animals today. Would like for you to -- missed."

" And will -- scientists found a spider that is mostly her before. It's interesting. Definitely accept a plausible. Yeah okay. I haven't read anything about that but that short. Yes Steve yeah so you say he's researchers developed a new kind of battery. That they can -- as quickly as some market took Yankee gas within like ten minutes they can fill up this is better. -- for your going to bite my question to you is does this battery at the same for the cargo is far on that. Battery recharges occurred on a regular taken guest. Probably not that's really cool I hope that that one. Is true that means that it that a breakthrough has that has happened. And him shirts plausible and know tons of people are working on that so yeah that that makes a lot of sense. And the last one. As far as I he anything that lives off -- anything else in this manner but a a plant that grows in the flesh of living animals I hate this I could totally believe that to you and that's disgusting and I hate that. I'm gonna say that it's probably. The battery one that's a fake. Okay thank -- well the spider species predominantly. Eating. Vegetables instead of -- You have all that centrist stand."

" And in very plausible by I think I can't think of why that. Wouldn't happen. On. You know other than the fact that -- spiders. Eat meat. Or other insects and so forth so. But nothing super special going -- I think balance okay now this. -- if there's one thing that listeners this podcasts have learned over the many years and the subject the batteries comes up often. Batteries taking. You know this one's gonna be ten times more powerful in this one are -- kind of turns out there actually. Small steps that you make in the hallway and I think we've talked about so many different topics in regards that -- seems to always be the case. So this goes against that. And their forum thinking about one is the fiction that's why connected at yeah and then plant species that. Grows exclusively. In the flash. A live animals that seems really strange -- And -- by Al prompting I'm thinking you know on the you know -- parasite or fungus and you know other things that certainly. Live off the question. Live with in the flesh of animals and apartments so but a plant species which is not a fungus. Well thank -- up. That says that would be that would be quite a discovery. Plus. Wouldn't alive animal hole like try to get the plant species like off of it I mean it's growing. What's going on inside that somehow. That would be a terrorist I don't know how plant could possibly survive inside it needs photos emphasis needs late. Horse or some sort of energy to to grow. So I'm having -- I'm having a big problem with that one. But then go back to battery one and I'm pretty sure that that once the fiction but then again I don't know how plant species could grow in the flesh of Clarence I don't see how that's -- So now. Staff to make the decision merits or go with my gut instinct and say that the battery Juan for the electric cars the fiction but I won't be at all surprised if plant species once it turns out to be the fiction okay I'm okay the."

" Kirk -- spider yeah I'm actually surprised that. This is this is the first record one -- so many thousands of different identified species of spiders. But I guess in some average. To which of our time -- that I just wonder how. It eats that food is it's still. Inject. Venom which dissolves the the internal parts of the planet and sucks them in the second. Same idea I don't know what. I'll buy that one. The battery that charges quickly has Philly take -- gas law I don't know about that that's one of the whole week -- else. A battery technology even even if the range is a hundred vials. 150 or 280. Kilometers that would be it that will be it. Even don't even tuition in eighty mile range that you could charge in ten minutes. Five to ten -- So that's extremely suspect. To me the plant species. Growing in flash that's pretty wicked. He had not sure I guess -- sounds feasible to me I haven't made a good point about photo synthesis. Or may be. Maybe it's got a it. Part of its life is is outside and then it kind of goes to a transformation. And it's either something in tandem -- to its other part of its life cycle and then it requires to be in flash. Kinda sounds possible but they the -- big gas electric battery wanna take a what do come across sector that's really huge. Consumers say that that is fiction."

" Already let's take these in order. I just sort the first one and one scientists discover the first recorded instance of a spider species as predominantly -- Everest this one is. Science. Can. When they're excellent little widely reported last few days you know how many different identified so spider species that are. Million dollars I think 9000 or somethin' I was gonna guess 8040000. I was closer to. I was gonna multiply my -- by five to get 4040000. As the first woman eats plants. This is the big directly pinkie. It's named after rated -- Occupant of central Americans southern Mexico. And -- spider. Eats the -- and also parts of the -- plan that is Clinton has in some beyond a relationship with ants ants protected from other reporters and then. The acacia. Will. Give the -- in housing and food that's the symbiotic relationship. We'll do it despite her cheats the system by taking connector meant for the -- And also -- parts the leaf tips known as L team bodies that he actually snowed in that -- actually belief that students thinking about injecting. Adamant down. Completely different yeah so -- it's always a nice spiders in -- spiders computers are not nice to the ANC's you know plant. Periods -- it still has efforts of those things you. -- picture out of out of nothing obvious. They are their very small Providence blow. Let's go so -- there we go guys. Aren't. I'm down one any -- Number two research researchers have developed. A new kind of battery for an all electric current can be returned as quickly as filling it Yankee gas and that we got let this theory is. Science. -- this. And -- we both got nailed it's bittersweet but yeah right I know I I don't I says. So about a man what do you think we're what how Canadians that -- as a possibility in charge of battery with. The brain the size and range for an electric car. In the same time it would take to facilitating get -- multiple plugs. You replace it is too ethnic for this which amounts sort of they're not replacing the batteries they are actually recharging the battery. There -- doors here this is a -- read -- flow battery in new type of battery. Uses. A liquid electorally. As the charging medium. So you can you can pump out the exhausted electorally fluid electorally. And fish and replace it with charged flute actually in -- in the time -- utility gas. And you have allow the batteries fully charged. I just of people might complain. You got actually recharging the electoral -- I just -- out but you are recharging the battery. And I guess it's a little bit on some Atlantic over the semantics of what -- Obama and -- DC this is. Where you get. You lose your street cred when you do something -- this I think John and I got a battery pull up. The batteries there and they recharge the battery in five minutes because of swapping out the electoral leaflet. -- tissue pull out and they give you a brand new car was fully charged -- to -- hung out with other progressive Democrat okay. But this does create this this does create a scenario where you can -- filling stations that you -- battery like utility taking gas. My questions are what does it cost to replace electoral and what's the ranges stamping they don't store is much energy is a lithium ion batteries they had about a quarter of the distance that lithium ouch. Out quarter. They did dabbling more into more ready for about an answer for science recurrent decides that they can get the capacity up. To -- the lithium iron range but again we don't have that that it has all the features that we want -- Eric went the better it has one really stellar feature but it's weak in other areas. So I don't know we'll -- did this who may be a dead end. If they can't get the speaking at the ranger -- the capacity of the -- developer who developments. This is developed. By a right Germany. Into the -- it -- German government sponsored research. As researchers from the front hope for institute for chemical technology. Frown -- for us -- of her -- Which means that scientists have discovered a plant species that grow as exclusively to fight to live animals inspection. And that was my -- hedge -- that I said. If the electric car onto an entry through that this woman have to be perfect when he got a 5050 at that point. See if I guess is that it grows ever -- as well Bravo it grows in the flesh of dead animals now. Did this is inspired by any another story completely that I always use of real one back at that I had three good items and pick one of them to make the fiction. What scientists have discovered is that certain plant species can recognize their own siblings. Yeah everywhere and yet it plants that. Grew from seeds from the same mother -- And they also discovered how they do this. Through chemical signatures -- In this thing and did how they know that they recognize than is that if you play at them side by side. They will compete with plants from that derive from other. Plants right and he will not compete -- will not send out. As many routes is they can to soak up the nutrients and water from the soil if they planted next to one of their siblings to -- They'll play nice -- disciplined but they'll compete. With plans that are not their siblings as and to make sense rate -- selection net property in those teams you know all about genes. So I got all of you. Well that's great -- in Africa a spider and snares a fly directly -- tell us about who's graduated from last week. Yeah well played again anger on a reminder."

" And service charges d.s are scams and rip offs that the biggest. Banks and credit card companies are doing and the US government the federal government is allowing it to happen. Thirty states thirty states."

" And that was so what does the bay Geffen who put this of you create your favorite jerk and mine. Have entered. Selling his best seat you know talk about is best debt protection. Get out of debt. Three secrets that it they don't want you know about. And he's talking about other people men banks in the institute you know it doesn't jam artists it is just amazing that this is convicted. Fraud. Hit upon not only the medical secrets. That the medical and she's been Heidi from the public but also the debt reductions secret that the the powers -- government just does not want you to know. This guy -- genius. I mean is there anything that he can't figure out that means there has to do all this had knowledge and what just because he's convicted con artist that mean we shouldn't believe them. As it does it mean they wouldn't have actually found out something like this it's like one of these generously convicted of fraud just happens to want to discovered the secret to free energy. -- Yeah so it's unbelievable about them. Once in -- would be tomorrow you know convicted frauds often make the breakthrough scientific discoveries. Because they understand how the world really works recipes ready what do you wanna get narrates and -- I have to say don't do infomercials and pyramid -- them investment schemes. You trying to say that there's anything other than totally goodwill towards it and be happening here. What a descendant. To. -- Happened to -- I don't know O Edgar what do you have for us this we will hope OP CN from the boards guessed correctly yes he did. He did after some other -- this now went to wear that ring correct but Kevin Trudeau and was named. Congratulations. OP CNN center passed that opt in and I think they'll be solicited. What the F Newsweek yes yeah counts CDC ranked conjured up for this week it's not a speaking girl can tell you that. It's just analysts and seating guests. What this. Well I don't like that. We'll ansari. Has a list we've got an animal -- Possibly works trying to start up that car kind of with the new with the battery with that it electorally like that are here today and okay and does he could do whatever they call this a good one that could give it your best -- Give -- quote I gotta tell it. It didn't really like Twitter when it came out you were not Twitter hated. I don't know I'm not that crazy about Twitter I -- this is one of those things I like more information then. 140 -- I had a 140 sentences little you know. -- increase to 200 of them."

" But there's there's a couple of sites. Couple of Twitter accounts that I really like -- one of them is this from hunter college at my dad says. And this this was sent in by listener named rob how from the UK but I already knew about this site that is wanted. To give credit because if he did read a really awesome quo. So here's a quote from this Twitter feed called shipment that says. The universe does not give us about you. Your respect initiate it she."

" Yeah. It. It. I mean it's a very colloquial way of putting. A sentiment that has been echoed by. Who -- scientists and thinkers that yet the universe -- in different to the plight of humanity. I've really believe that this is some old dude running at the mouth -- and fix this trend is toward the idea -- it and I mean a monitor right now -- is quite a brilliant wise as that I don't recommend people stick about it."

" A one quick announcement this week. -- Jamie Ian Swiss who will be taking part in any heavy mental ago. At 7:30 PM. And -- as science magic and skepticism workshop at 1 PM to 530. Which will include team means -- and DJ Griffey and chipped and this is on October 24 in Washington DC at the Tripoli this auditorium. For more information go to it and see AS dot org slash OCT 24. Is an event cosponsored by the national capillaries skeptics and the Center for Inquiry DC. So."

" Washington in Washington the independent and that's where you talk -- estrangement of the Shannon's -- yeah that's call for a full circle Jamie's -- and I agree if anyone has a chance to go to CNBC's. News ton of fun music creator edition. Carrey's funny news -- beat. Obviously interviewed him very recently -- DNC for our lives next dissident. I watched him do. A half dozen card tricks that you know as half a foot from where he was doing the card tricks and I gotta say he's got the skills then I mean I was dumbfounded. It was announced that the skills. Yang does."

" In the eighties and it is also very interesting got to talk to if you have a chance go up and talked to him after the show yet. You hypnotize -- that spinning real -- at I do want to thank everyone also who is sent in. Who responded to a call for volunteers last week we are -- leading everything. She's having some email issues that -- hasn't responded personally to -- we are seeing all of the offers for programmers and artists. To -- upcoming projects. Keeps sending him and -- arm. -- leading every single one and -- promise you we will get back to everyone once chase attendants Nino situation well thanks for joining me get this week guys XT -- thank you -- thank you Rebecca where it until next week. This is your skeptics guide to the universe."

" Discuss discuss the universe is produced by the New England skeptical society. In association with the James Randi educational foundation and -- chick dot org for more information on this and other episodes. Please visit our website at www. That's got its -- dot org for questions suggestions and other feedback. Please use to contact us form on the web site or send an email to info at the skeptics guide dot -- If you took this episode that please help us spread the word I voted for aside -- leaving this review on iTunes you can find links to these sites and others. To our home -- Serum is produced by Kyoto and is used with permission."

" Okay."