Title: Differences Of Style, Not Substance, In First Senate Debate

" This is the WBUR news podcast for Tuesday October 27. A service of WBUR. Boston's NPR news station I'm about it looks coming up. The state brings together business leaders for a summit on how to turn the Massachusetts economy around. Also we preview the Boston Celtics season which opens tonight in Cleveland. And first today just six weeks from today voters get to winnow the democratic field in the race for the late Ted Kennedy's seat in the US senate. December 8 is the date of the primary election. Voters get a chance to check out all four Democrats in their first formal debate of the campaign last night. WBUR. Spread -- was there and this morning has this roundup of the debate held at the Kennedy library."

" Venture capitalist -- Uga and city year founder Alan Khazei showed they still have a lot to learn about how government works. Moderator Peter -- asked -- what are the first three things he would do to keep -- air force base and the Natick soldier system center from being shut down."

" Well Peter like Senator Kennedy I'm gonna seek a seat on the armed services committee. So I'll be right there in the middle of this to make sure we protect hands commend these jobs at Massachusetts."

" With the base closure process is designed to take influence away from legislators. And focused at the Pentagon in two point that Casey seems to have missed tell you could to."

" The first thing I would do is. Identified the senators who -- back in the closure."

" How you could also appeared to think that members of congress decide which bases to close. Before the debate a poll by Western New England College revealed that most people in Massachusetts still had not heard of the three men running against Attorney General Martha Coakley. Now you can easy and congressman Mike kept you wanna. Last night was their chance to make an impression. On the economy they tried. Need asked the candidates whether they would support in other economic stimulus in if so how they would pay for value cassette he would get that money from tax increases."

" We shouldn't go crazy because it will kill the economy but you have to look at increasing the market rate it's at 35% for the wealthiest individuals. Many countries are 4038. We can handle that -- look at slight increases the capital gains tax."

" Keynesian Capuano also said -- support another stimulus and before it by raising taxes. On foreign policy how you can and can't -- one who opposed to preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities Coakley and Khazei fudged the question. For much of the debate it was hard to distinguish between the candidates' positions. All four oppose sending more troops to Afghanistan. And the all supported giving illegal immigrants a way to become citizens. As for health care all four candidates backed president Obama's proposal for public health insurance plan that would compete with private insurers. The president has called for bipartisan reform. But Coakley said Democrats should pass health insurance reform without waiting for Republicans to join them."

" Bipartisanship is nice the president has certainly said he wants to do that and that's a good goal but IE. We need think that we need good progress on this we need to steer result. And so. If we can pass a public option because that's important I think it's important for people understand that without that you have only reformer on the news you don't have any transparency. Or competition."

" At all times the candidates remained very polite with one another. On this issue kept you want to agreed with -- but he's answers sounded very different from Hearst she tried to be measured he went for feisty."

" When you have the votes you gulp what can we put on the WPA. In -- my Social Security in wait for the Medicare. We should not wait for this to make sure that everybody's happy. Because will never make everybody happy we need to get help care for everybody and keep it as a portable is we can't as soon as we."

" Q and a may have needed this debate more than any of the candidates he said that he wants to make this a two person race between him and Coakley. But according to the poll released yesterday -- one who is in a statistical tie with key easy and -- Uga. For second place behind Coakley for WBUR I'm Fred --"

" Joining us to fact check some of the claims that candidates made in last night's debate is WBUR as Monica Brady-Myerov Monica good morning. Good morning lots of talk about the stimulus package especially up front and the debate first of all not all the candidates agreed on whether or not they would support another federal stimulus package right."

" That's right Alan -- was the only when he came out strongly saying we need another one and we need it soon. Stephen -- a -- he's not sure he needs to see where the economy is going to make that decision. Micro cap you wanna sounds like he might support another one and Martha Coakley said for heard the jury is still out on whether the first one is effective."

" If we think that the first stimulus was effective and indeed she did keep jobs hopefully you exceeded tax revenues would go up so presumably you have some war. Wiggle room there and if we thought it was going to be effective. I think rather than seeing it is adding to the deficit we would see it as an investment."

" Well according to the mass budget and policy center there is very strong evidence that this stimulus package is working that it is effective. So well we know that it's having a positive effect we don't know whether this will stimulate the whole economy. But you also came up in this discussion was how to create new jobs and -- said he would create a new jobs tax credit that he says would create. One point three million jobs. He didn't specify but this is a national number and it's not clear how many of those jobs he could bring to Massachusetts. As far as whether or not that will work there are respected economists who say that. Yes this type of tax credit does create jobs but not everyone agrees."

" Okay on healthcare Alan -- said something that probably perked ears up. There are six health care lobbyists for every member of congress. The health insurance companies are spending 384. Million dollars to get the health care they want. Not the health care the American people are demanding is that a correct figure six lobbyists for every member of congress."

" That number is true but it's a slight exaggeration there are 3000 registered health care lobbyists according to -- a nonprofit journalism group which today an investigation CBS news so that's really about five and a half for every member of congress. But summer very well known such as Billy toes and he's a former Republican represented from Louisiana. Who's now president of farm on the drug industry's lobbying groups so. Some of these about a lot of power."

" Okay let's move on to Afghanistan in arguing why he thinks the US should not send more troops there. Congressman Michael can't you Lantos said that in general Stanley but crystal report on Afghanistan they were very few al-Qaeda members left in country let's hear that."

" Is the mission accomplished the answer is yes and he admits in his report. He himself said there a less than 100 al-Qaeda in Afghanistan as we speak that's his numbers not mind."

" As congressman -- UN I'll have that figure correct Monica only 100 al-Qaeda members left in country. As far as I can read in the crystal report and we also asked Michael sample of the Kennedy school to read it again it does not say there are only 100 al-Qaeda operatives -- in Afghanistan. I also called cap on his campaign to see exactly where that is their report. I didn't get a return phone call. Now where I could find that number. Was that it was mentioned in an interview that CNN did with White House security adviser James Jones. -- said quote the maximum estimate is that less than 100 al-Qaeda are operating in the country. And Jones says he doesn't think Afghanistan is in danger of falling if American troops are pulled out. But when you read -- a crystal report the mission is not accomplished according to him and there are many experts in the region that agree with that."

" The candidates last night also addressed immigration they were asked if they'd support giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses. And be covered by universal health care here's what's even -- you can."

" Had to say we've got over ten million really leverage here they've been here for a long time. I agree senator -- they need to get a path for citizenship. I don't think that means getting them driver's license unless we determine the comprehensive policy to get to the path for citizenship."

" Do the numbers here Monica forest does he have his figures correct. It doesn't appear to the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington DC estimates there were eleven point three million illegal immigrants in 2007. Another group the Federation for American Immigration Reform says. There more than thirteen million illegal immigrants in 2007. And government and academic estimates say that in 2006 there were eleven to twelve million illegal immigrants so I think -- you can underestimated. How many illegal immigrants living in this country."

" Some of the issues addressed by the candidates last night fact check by WBUR Monica Brady-Myerov Monica thanks on Iraq and our political analysts weigh in with their opinions Republican Todd donkey and first off. Democrat campaign. All the candidates are trying to make distinctions and differences. And I was surprised that with Martha Coakley being in the lead. In most polls that none of the non Coakley candidates tried to taker on tried to knock her down a bit. So in that respect I think Coakley wound up winning by default --"

" I have to agree that three male candidates. Just seem to be afraid of taking on Martha Coakley. Now the format didn't allow them to really debate among cells that much but candidates to all -- around the rules. And and take a shot but they chose not to I think they feared backlash if -- like. The three male candidates perhaps were ganging up on the female candidate. But she is the front runner they are far behind according to polls and they remained behind after this debate."

" Let's talk briefly about each of the candidates what they did right what they did wrong and start with Martha Coakley Todd. Well she didn't make any mistakes that was her basic strategy going into this debate. She was lackluster. She was uninteresting and it and every answer. But she did what she had to -- she's trying to run out the clock and she didn't give them father. Shouldn't give them ammunition so she came out on top and issue a good answer when she was asked about Afghanistan. She talked about the loss of life both American lives and lives. In Afghanistan Pakistan in and Iraq. And I thought that was her best moment in the debate she was really playing. And empathetic. Woman and probably gave a lot of people who weren't sure about her on the war gave them some comfort. Congressman -- UN and well let me just say that -- capitalize needs to have his caffeine intake monitored closely. Because he was very edgy almost angry. He was disagreeing with Peter -- the moderator. And he needs to tone it down in debates."

" That's what is there are ways to to disagree without being disagreeable he came across -- argumentative. And harsh. So in terms of like ability he lost ground now he made some good points he did remind people that as. -- congressman he actually knows the issues he would have some clout going and but he relief failed to. Motivate undecided voters because in terms of persona that he lost the debate. -- candidate city are co-founder Alan -- your take on how he did well he came across as very sincere and genuine and then -- he's -- good hearted fellow. But he really. Wasn't galvanizing he he didn't come up with any surprise to make people think -- let me listen to this time more. Also at times seemed almost have to be filibustering that he he talked too long."

" Campaign Alan Khazei via Allen needs to define his USP. He's unique selling proposition. Instead of throwing out six points to every answer he needs to have won over arching point and then talk and answer in -- that. He's new at this he's never done this before and it showed and the fourth in the candidates Steve -- Uga. -- they look a look like a man who's never done anything like this before or thought about a lot of these issues much less spoken about these issues. He seemed scripted and stiff. And if you were a political junkies. As the people are who are going to be voting in this in this special election will be low turnout election. Steve -- didn't give you much comfort. I agree --"

" and fourth in in the ranking of the candidates in terms of performance. He's the democratic Mitt Romney in that he's running on his bio as a successful businessman but that doesn't work so well with democratic primary voters."

" When this campaign started not that long ago a few short weeks following the death of Ted Kennedy. It seemed like the legacy it in the memory of Ted Kennedy who's most like Ted Kennedy was going to perhaps speed the driving issue. Of this campaign Dan has that moment passed. Is this more about these candidates than it is about Ted Kennedy name yet."

" As the farther we get away from the death of Senator Kennedy the more the candidates themselves I have to stand on their own. And Mike -- you wanna who said almost from the beginning they said consistently I'm going to be the most like Ted Kennedy even he'd drop that didn't really. Try to make himself the natural heir to Ted Kennedy as he'd been saying some out -- standing on their own now they gonna make their own argument irrespective of Ted Kennedy. On the issues raised there was a lot of talk about the economy jobs -- an increase US troop levels in Afghanistan. Whether there should be another federal stimulus package Todd. Did any of the candidates distinguish themselves on any of these issues."

" Not really not a sense of a contrast between them in a case like this -- for candidates. The candidate who separates himself from the others in a positive way. Seeming to come across as I am the one who can do X or Y I could be for example in London could be a catalyst for turning around the state economy. Somebody who does that sort of thing. With conviction. And with plausibility. Can win but in this case they they sounded identical in policy."

" because the candidates. Agreed on so many issues in and gave very similar answers it really became a matter of style. Do you like your candidates cool like Martha Coakley or do you prefer your candidates to be hot. Like Mike kept you wanna sell how you see what happened depends to some extent on who styles you prefer. There's been some span that it's a two horse race between Martha Coakley and Michael can't you wanna to what extent did this debate changed that or not."

" Well with a visit to horse race Martha as writing a stallion and kept you on -- on Shetland pony. I mean he's he's far behind and the other two you know are still up to date. Basically the thing they need to have happened to change the dynamic of the race where Martha Coakley. Arguing that she is the front runner and therefore inevitable. You know starts to lose ground with folders that they find that's not -- convincing enough argument to get out and vote for. And these other three candidates have some serious reassessing to denial about strategy after this debate so then what's."

" The challenge for these campaigns going forward well there was nothing that happened in last night's debate that would make you wanna watch another one. And so what's gonna happen as happens in so many campaigns is that TV spending becomes the determining factor. And right now that favors apparently look at it doesn't mean he's gonna win but he's gonna have a lot of TV presents. And I imagine Martha Coakley will start her TV advertising for early soon capped -- one has already been on TV and Alan Khazei has a million dollars he raised in September may have another good month in October. He could be doing TV so pretty so this will be TV commercials campaign and Matt. Driven by debates campaign talk -- thanks lot for coming I'm always glad to help -- to be with."

" Recovery is the buzz word at a gathering of local economic leaders today. Governor Patrick is convening a summit at the Boston Federal Reserve Bank with a focus on long term economic development and job creation. The former head of the Boston fed -- minute hand will lead the first panel. She chairs the governor's Council of Economic Advisers and joins us this morning to preview the summit. Good morning -- men hand and thanks very much for speaking -- Good morning of the panel your leading -- understand it will examine the current economic situation in Massachusetts and across the US. How do you see -- right now."

" It's. A very unique moment in time."

" It'll be awhile before we know one we actually bottomed out at a beach."

" Determined to within with a good deal of hindsight but they're allowed to assigned to the stock market in the credit markets. A little bit and how is seeing a but we still face a lot of challenges a lot of -- And some of the reasons why there are some good -- have to do this fiscal stimulus."

" So there's the question now is the economy recovering underneath."

" And we've had some recent kind of back and forth signs about the state of the economy. Of Massachusetts. And we we would like to do as much as we possibly can to help this state. Emerged. It is an unhealthy obsession as his command which direction the country."

" Some economists think that Massachusetts will lead the country out of recession what's your view one that will we lead will we lag will lead just beyond pace."

" Well let's put it this way in the last two recessions. The states suffered the worst in the rest of the country because in the mix of businesses that we have. It's I think so widely hailed and I and I believe this is accurate that that's not happening this time. Whether we leave the rest of the country I think remains to be seen. We hadn't had had some revenue. Surprises may be and -- that."

" Quite terrorists the right word disappointments. I should say in September. And I think it's been well recognize. By the administration and in the media."

" That we've had some state revenue problems that. -- not to quite in sync and where is the message is it's really beating wings -- however we've got a great mix of businesses here in the states."

" And there's every reason to assume that we will lead direction of the country which -- would like to get the state moving. It in this sort of period of uncertainty."

" There's great concern across the country and of course in the commonwealth that this is going to be a jobless recovery when it comes about that there. Won't be many new jobs created for the for the new economy so to speak what's your view on that will we see job creation. In this commonwealth in in the near future."

" I think his nation's cases. Real employment problem. We have had definitely created a deep hole in this recession there's a lot of excess capacity out there businesses were burned badly by the deep. Decline that we experienced about a year ago and then naturally hesitant to. Until they're really sure that there's actual. Robust demand out there I think it really hesitant at in the hiring process it's really hard to -- it is hard. As we work at the nation in in this state -- a year ago. That -- wants. There is confident sitcom that the state is moving ahead with the nation is moving ahead. This this is will be into higher. At some point there will definitely be job growth. That will be dependent upon. The underlying patient demand and on the confidence. To people and businesses have."

" And there's no way to predict. You think as to when that's going to occur."

" Most forecasts. To see the unemployment rate rising a bit before it starts to fall by the end. Two -- content. I have to remind you know are we haven't seen this deep of a recession. This high and unemployment rate. This level of unused capacity. In a long time in my lifetime really mean we've reached its. Unemployment rates like this briefly in 1982. But this situation. Would not just saying that it is now particularly as regards to the consumer and consumer confidence. I want to just point to this one reason I think this timing of the summit. It's really important is because confidence is really at issue now. Businesses. People around this state need to. Understand that the leadership. Both public leadership and private leadership he's really focused on getting the state activists."

" If it is all about confidence if turning the economy around -- job creation. Is all about building confidence so that businesses can feel good about hiring workers so that businesses. Have a reasonable expectation that they're going to make a profit in the hiring of workers. What do the political leaders attending today's summit and all the summiteers need to do need to say coming out of it to bolster confidence."

" Obviously term confidence isn't a whole thing -- it actually happens to be you know real things going on real demand to real work getting -- We need didn't set certain."

" Very short term. And goals. Different things said at the margins will help to states."

" India and obviously the nation. -- to rise both its own recovery ended at the State's recovery what we wanna do is stirring things sit com kept the margin. That we can all put our shoulder due to the real army and get turned in a relatively short period of time in the next eighteen months. That will help this state emerge a better fashion."

" minute hand former president of the Boston fed current chair of the governor's Council of Economic Advisers caffeine enhanced thanks a lot for speaking -- this this morning about. Tonight the Boston Celtics tip off the regular season the team will be on the road playing the cavaliers in Cleveland tonight. The cavs have a major addition this year Shaquille O'Neal and the Celtics will be down a key player at season's start. Forward Glen big baby Davis could miss a month or two after breaking his -- reportedly. In a fight with a former college teammate. Talk about that embassies and head were joined by Peter may. He's a former Boston Globe and Hartford current sports reporter who now covers basketball for Yahoo! Sports and hoops -- dot com Peter good morning and thanks for joining us."

" Well thank you for having -- good morning."

" Start with the news this morning the injury to big baby Glen Davis how how big -- losses that for the Celtics."

" I think it's. It it's it's not a great loss stated philosophy I mean I think. He definitely was going to be part of the rotation. And he had really blocked them last year especially after Kevin Garnett. Got hurt -- a terrific playoff series in against Orlando economists and there's no question about it he's he was part of the rotations. And you know he's he's starting to develop into a -- a player that. I think with Rasheed Wallace round and if if he can stay on the floor I think double -- Fairly."

" You mentioned Kevin Garnett coming off surgery in May he played in every pre season game how do you look and is his health crucial for the Celtics."

" Yes but the but the in a word he's their best player he's the contents of that -- he'd he'd make them though he'd -- simply defense. So if he's not on the court. And the deterrent like US west is there and then they're not commit to anything. In -- in the playoffs so yes he's he's he's absolutely critical. He would look great so far. I decided he didn't miss any games. Karzai doing hasn't really missed any practices either so he's he's ready to go and when he's ready to go. There's nobody more manic and he --"

" How about Paul Pierce and Ray Allen they ready to go."

" They are indeed yes. Race in the last year of his contract so that's right. It was gonna last what happens in this year and -- is it and terrific shape. Pol likewise. Bit and they also think debate. You know that they were robbed a little bit last year that they really didn't get. But a chance to defend at a country stands basically without Garnett and I think they've felt a little bit. Robbed by that surveyed say they have been on their minds what they're gonna get back to where they feel they should this year."

" As we mentioned at the start the Celtics take on the cavs tonight in Cleveland it's something of a rivalry. And the two teams will probably battle all season long for supremacy in the Eastern Conference. How out of a cell stack up against the camps."

" I like the Celtics there's been talk about at least if they stay healthy. But Cleveland we'll be right there I look at those who. And Orlando. Who also will be good post immediately teams in the east that are. It -- stay healthy and and the players perform to the levels which we expect to perform. They should all be in the -- at the end."

" So can the Celtics go all the way this year."

" I think they can yes I definitely can I think there -- deeper better team than they were two years ago. They're also two years older than they were two years ago so that's always a concern when you keep players have put on the mileage and that Garnett Ray Allen and Paul have put on. So it's gonna be really really critical to watch them Mexico through the seasons not to overplay them. Stock persistent terrific. On that score especially with Garnett keeping his minutes down. And I think stay healthy. I like their chances against anybody. Because they've really done a great job. Over the offseason. And it nobody else gets in any bar fight will be fine."

" Well let's hope they stay out of the bars that. Peter may who -- basketball for Yahoo!'s sports in hoops -- dot com thanks a lot -- beat you with us."

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