Title: Here and Now for Friday, October 30, 2009

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" Here now is a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI. I'm -- Young it's here and now as lawmakers in Washington continue to debate health care. We thought we'd look today at one of the off the radar health care reform proposals that might affect more people than even the public option proposal. I'm referring to wellness programs and a growing number of employers are offering to workers to incentivize them to stay healthy. Washington's now hammering out provisions that would allow employers to ratchet up the pressure on workers who choose to be part of company wellness programs. Leading companies penalize workers a lot more for failing to meet benchmarks for instance for not managing their -- smoking or high cholesterol. And what's -- these penalties would also apply to people who buy individual health insurance. David hill's math is a reporter for the Washington Post he's been tracking the debate over wellness provisions. And David just a reminder sells insurance has always been about spreading risk. Across as many people as possible to help the seriously -- but this a new debate about whether some people are being unfairly subsidized. For health problems they can fix but don't tell us about the new philosophical debate."

" your right it does raise some philosophical questions why should nonsmokers. Subsidized smokers. Why should people who eat their vegetables subsidize people who eat their big Mac we've heard from readers who asked where do you draw the line. How about skiing or drinking beer. And -- deeper level Robin. Should health insurance like auto insurance and which good drivers earn discounts and reckless one to pay a price -- to encourage safer driving there isn't another approach and that is should health insurance -- safety net. In which the healthy subsidize sick. With the understanding that anybody could get sick at any time."

" Well and that's what the thinking has traditionally been that people who are younger and healthier. Pay for the insurance that they might not be used but the understanding is you -- is that illness is transitory and so you. We're gonna have it later in life you pay into the system early on you help covered. The older and -- And those who are not well and then someone hopes cover you don't road. In this new thinking that maybe you get penalized or get discounts depending on your lifestyle choices. Does run up against the Obama promised that people won't be punished. When they go to get insurance if they have preexisting conditions."

" That's exactly right. The context for this debate is that President Obama and members of congress. His says that they're trying to create a system in which no one can be denied coverage or charge higher premiums. Based on their health status. And by that standard. Wellness incentives could introduce. A giant loopholes."

" Let's talk about how they were now what employers to right now. When it comes to wellness programs."

" Under current regulation employers can these two types of wellness incentive. They can give employees incentives based on effort or participation. For example for enrolling in smoking cessation classes. Whether or not they kick the habit and yet companies can also -- employees incentives. Based on results. Quitting smoking losing weight meeting cholesterol targets. Under current regulation there's no limit Robin on the decided incentives based on participation. Alone. But there are limits when people are rewarded for passing tests -- penalized for blocking."

" So you explain to -- and employers can have wellness programs they can -- reward people for participating in again healthy program. Or they can offer incentives for people who have achieved results. But this Steward of the criticisms of the overall thinking. There are people who can't no matter what they do can't change the results there are for instance. You know diabetics. And I -- one diabetes supporters don't like this distinction that there are people there are some people have diabetes because of lifestyle choices. And there are some who have genetic diabetes and there's nothing they can do. To reverse that."

" Under these legislation. Is under current law. Employers would have to make exceptions somebody at a medical reason for being unable. To meet the as the target. Or if they're medical condition would make it in advisable for them to even try. Team player would have to make some alternative. Arrangement. But you point to update the crux of this difficulty. You can be hard to determine what's in somebody's control. And what's beyond their control. And I interviewed the CEO of the company that manages incentive programs. -- he made an interesting distinction. He did I can't give you an incentive based on being and diabetic or not being diabetic. But whether you're managing your blood glucose level I can give you an incentive based on that."

" This is what diabetics have to do they have to constantly. Test their blood. And eat and exercise correctly to keep it at a certain level."

" Indeed objective with beating get that person with diabetes aren't the proper medication and they could pass the test. If they had diabetes and we're effectively managing their blood sugar levels using insulin."

" Say don't get penalized just for. Getting diabetes."

" Theoretically non. If you had diabetes in the -- managing the condition properly as a result your blood sugar level is out of control us."

" This is is this the -- com -- they're based in Indiana. Right and as a supplemental insurance company and other web -- they say the wellness programs are voluntary so. Do you even have to participate."

" Well the the lawmakers who advocates this employers to say these programs these incentives would be voluntary but one of these. The senators who has coauthored the proposal. Did -- his plan would guarantee that the incentive is strong enough. For Americans to want to participate."

" Well and the incentive is that you could if you if you kept your blood pressure down kept your cholesterol down. Pastor medical tests with flying colors you could conceivably coming not money off your premium."

" Short theoretically people who pass these tests with flying colors could reduce their health care costs that is. Unless. The reward is simply the absence of a penalty."

" That's important unless the reward is the absence of a penalty in other words in some cases if you do well nothing changes but. As you just explain some plans will penalize participants say raise premiums if they don't need schools other plans as we just said. Might raise a premium and then participants can chip away at that high premium by meeting some goals. We've also been reading about the city wellness program in San Francisco and theirs was a reward based program people paid for instance for not taking sick days. And other cities realizing their paying out way too much money you say that's why the current thing is to get away from rewards only programs are too expensive. But what happens in a penalty program and people you know can't hit benchmarks and just camp for are their plans wellness program."

" First unless they have a medical excuse. They could be out of block. They can look for a plan that would take them that they are without penalty. Theoretically such a plan would ever riskier population and and higher expenses. Making its premiums less affordable. Or they could become uninsured. And pay a penalty for that remember President Obama and members of congress. Would require people to have insurance or pay --"

" Well it's not even clear that these penalty provisions are you gonna make it into the final legislation. But you say some large employers are in favor of them why."

" They're trying to cope with rapidly rising been. And they argue that encouraging healthy habits can improve the health of their workers and bring down insurance costs. They -- it's not enough to control the cost of medical care we need to reduce the need for."

" So as a behavior modification. Precisely and -- is the American Heart Association against it."

" Course this is the group is devoted to combating heart disease they -- against encouraging healthy lifestyle. What they oppose is -- people's premiums to things like blood tests and weighty and critics' fears that the players can use these incentives to drive people out of their health plans or even out of their jobs. They say people can be penalized for things beyond their control. And that health care could become less affordable for those who needed smokes."

" Dick Woodruff we the American Cancer Society cancer action network told the New York Times. Everybody needs insurance is as a barrier on healthier people either pay more or are priced out completely but as you noted others are saying well why should healthy people. Continue to subsidize unhealthy people. Does it work Benton county Arkansas has tried it what what were the results."

" Then county Arkansas implemented one of these programs for years ago. And during the first two years the county's share of employee medical costs declined sharply. Since then it's sort. And it's hard to know what to conclude."

" It showed asking people to screen for tests to see how they do means that you might find out the --"

" And the hope is that bills get treatment. And that the money spent in the short term will save money on the long term because those people will avoid medical catastrophe."

" Another company that try to wellness program is the auto parts maker. Valley but they did was raise individual employee deductibles from 2022200. And family coverage deductibles from 400 to 4400. -- before you gas. The way they design this is that employees could immediately start bringing those deductibles down. By getting credits from reading health targets so how is that going."

" On average and he said workers had 200 dollar deductibles before the program was introduced. And 600 dollar deductibles. After factoring in -- well discredit. So pretty average worker participating in the program certain out of pocket expenses have triple. And one of the way these programs save employers money is by shifting costs from the company. To the worker. From the company's standpoint it can be heads I win tails you lose the company can save money whether or not the workers get healthier."

" So we've given some examples how widespread. Our wellness programs now."

" Wellness programs has become increasingly popular in corporate America. And the most popular ones are the ones that reward participation. Or effort. The one that actually based rewards or penalties on -- the achievement of medical targets they seem to be the exception. And I've seen some survey results suggesting that next year 2000 and one in seven. Employers plan to reward people for up achieving health status targets."

" I'm thinking too David is a lot of work fur. The insurance companies because they have done. Figured out you know I have to assorted -- detective work."

" They can't they can outsource it to vendors who specialize in it. And there are other reasons -- they would do that anyway and chiefly to protect employees' privacy. But the big concerns about these these programs is that employees don't necessarily want their employer selling all of their medical details. And theoretically they're legal protection. That would prevent those outside vendors from. Sharing information with the employer and -- interviewed say they are privy to information. They don't want information. But groups like the American Heart Association are concerned that the legal protections may not be here tight."

" I'm I'm imagining that you could have a family an entire family. Sternly with diabetes. -- you know what would that do potentially how might that potentially. Raise a family premium."

" Well again if people have a valid medical reason. For failing to pass the test team player and the insurer would have to make some exceptions. But if he had a family of -- admit that targets they could be looking at 6700. Dollars. A year in additional cost on average."

" It -- it doesn't -- he's reported for the Russian post he's been talking to us about wellness programs. -- how they operate now and how they might in the future in the new healthcare. And it's David thanks so much. Iraq."

" Okay switching gears just ahead banks are slapping fees on credit card to his new regulations. Also later today -- psychologist says keeping sex offenders in jail beyond their time isn't perfect but it is stemming repeat offenders. The women here now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back. Well it was speculated that they would do it and now they're doing it as predicted some banks and credit card companies scrambling ahead of new regulations next year. Are either charging annual fees for some customers who pay off their cards every month and -- excellent credit readings. Or charging customers who don't use their cards enough. Or charging them for not using them and all Sandra block writes about personal finance -- she joins us since and you walk us through some of these new fees. Start with Bank of America what are they doing."

" They're going to start charging it in you'll see he could range from 39 dollars to 99 dollars and what it's really got people upset is that. It could affect them up there best customers because in the credit cart world. A good customer is sometimes the least profitable customer for the credit card if you pay up -- every month. And you're never late and -- you are basically not making a lot of money for the credit card can't."

" Right you're paying late fees are hardly gonna get you and mrs. How this is being seen by some consumer advocates that this is a way to hit those good customers. Citigroup what are they doing."

" They are going to start charging. The unspecified amount -- customers to charge less than. Assert that every year Indian markets did. Batted around is about 2.4 hundred dollars a year so peace and let that play 400 dollars a year on your credit card you might be hit with C basically for just not spending enough."

" And then other companies are also charging fees for inactive --"

" I can't get this is something you're gonna see a lot more of BK I don't know about you but I have to credit cards. That I never use I just keep them for emergencies -- another credit car or clothes or as a victim of identity theft."

" Or there was that great sale of the clothing store -- got to Qaeda to attack."

" That is definitely not making anybody credit credit card company. So I think some they -- Wanted to mention Becky quick -- third bank which is based in Ohio are gonna start charging an activity these if you don't use your card over a certain period of time they're gonna charge that the."

" What's the reasoning I mean isn't as simple as it would seem that banks are looking for new revenue because of new restrictions that are coming -- going -- for instance. A clamp down on raising interest rates."

" Exactly starting next February they're going to be a lot more restrictions on what they can do in terms interest rates on the terms of things copy charging you. Higher rate -- not because you were laid out your credit card because you -- on another -- or raising interest rates on existing balances. Look at these things are going to affect people who carried out this. But because they are going to cut in Q. Thanks revenue it. They're looking for ways to raise money across the board and the other argument they are making. Is they would have to do this anyway because the credit crisis fizzled again. An increase in people defaulting on their credit cards so they're losing money even without this legislation they can be taking a lot of revenue they're looking for ways to make that backs."

" what a credit card holders do because who laid up for you explain. That sometimes you can't walk away from credit card."

" Well look at where people get really annoyed because any other -- isn't secure like happy with he would get. Stopped getting the business right if you didn't like you're dry cleaners people go to another dry cleaner. Closing at credit card account into little trickier because he could conceivably hurt your credit score one of the things. They be used in developing your credit score is the amount of credit you have versus the amount of credit you used. If you close the credit card account and available credit is going to shrink and that could hurt your credit score."

" This is sort of a vicious cycle with a her credit score might get be hard to get another car."

" Yet now I I don't want to overstate this I think people who pay off their balances every month. And carry very little credit are probably not going to hurt your credit score that much. And if you're not planning to buy a home our car any kind he would maybe it's worth walking away anyway but I think it is something people need to be aware."

" Old did you say before you walk away literally call the card companies suddenly these these new annual fees pop up for you being charged for not using your card or for an inactive card. You say call and demanded it be -- with that really work."

" I ever tried this myself but I've talked to people who happen. Call and that you have a good customer and I was charged an unfair feed or don't like this -- by the credit card to charge -- he. And if you don't wade did -- going to take my district somewhere else now you may have to step it up but -- just some of these poor folks who -- working in customer service to an action. Right now are having a very miserable days. Getting a lot of angry -- may not be in a position to do that he may have taken -- speak to your supervisor. And I can guarantee that this is going to work differently with a try that the cost you anything and she can't get them to -- that -- and you don't have to worry about what's going to happen to your credit score."

" But you also remind just before you walker and fight to waive the fee. Find out what the credit card is worth queue there which if you've got a big rewards program on it might be worth it to keep it even you know if given 99 dollar annual fee."

" Yes that's what people really have to get check their pencils and about the calculated I think that's going to be. Come a much bigger issue used to be even now there are some pretty generous rewards card to tap your feet. Everyone -- Pakistan that's gonna go. You're going to have to decide if that he is worth the announcement through words that you get and that really is going to require you to -- very hard look at your spending. How much you travel what kind of reward you get all kinds of things because they just don't think that they're going to be giving her awards away for free for much longer."

" have you right now we know the new consumer financial protection board. Is looking at debit cards and there's a move in Washington to make sure that banks let debit card users know that there overdrawn right now. Banks can have led a debit card go through and then charge you an exorbitant rate if you're overdrawn. Let's go now with overdraft fees or."

" Another way that banks are looking to read. Revenue in its hugely controversial because he can get incredibly expensive people are finding that just because they spent maybe a couple of dollars -- is -- in there. Checking account that they're being hit with a piece of 35 dollars or more for every purchase because. Candidate they say that this is the convenient they're offering customers because people don't wanna go to the grocery store give their debit card could have the -- tell them on. I'm sorry you can't buy any flowers today because you've run out of many. So what I think regulators are looking at. Is requiring banks to tell people they're out of money another is to allow people to opt out of overdraft fees and some credit union. It's smaller banks are doing this it is giving customers the choice when they opened the account do you want. You opt out of overdraft protection that's what they're calling it."

" The -- black who writes about personal finance -- today sandy thinks is always. Okay quick look ahead. Tomorrow I'm here now we'll see how two different communities a native American tries an Idaho and rural town in North Carolina. Plenty stimulus money to expand their access to the Internet that's tomorrow. Still ahead today's word bandanna comes from India will explain how I Hindi words sailed -- India. To Salem Massachusetts. Here and."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. IC EA Boston dot org."

" And -- young welcome back here and now. To some troubling news out of Palo Alto, California a town that's struggling to deal with for a suicides over the last five months. Three of them students and -- high school in the city the fourth a middle school student getting ready to enter high school. And each of -- suicides took place at the same train crossing in town. Lisa Krieger has been covering the story for the Mercury News and Lisa -- one -- cigarette at the outset that everyone in town is being very careful. Reporting even talking about this your paper is not naming young people."

" We're not there's a lot of concerns that he may inadvertently. Encourage other suicide. Fiscal trying desperately hard to focus on mental health issues and identification to depression getting kids to open up. It came time to your party educations that don't wanna encourage producers -- there's a lot of sensitivity. On the -- are reporting that. It's a wonderful community wonderful high school very high achieving kids lot of them actually -- the drug patents to protect companies are Stanford University. It's a community that loves its kitchen is alarmed about."

" when we aren't talking about the four. Suicides do were attempts."

" results -- an attempt so what we have is that seventeen year old boy died Monday night. At another young person who died in August. There are some attempts in June there was another suicide in early June and then one in May. All of these attacks and spot on the tracks. -- nationally known each other so not as. So it was done clap particularly. What we're. Beginning to recognize is that this has become a hot spot it's an accident and it's because cancer there's adjustable and impulsive and if you combine that with. A place that's highly accessible and and highly -- and and your classmates died there. It's just triggering event and just normal teenage depression it becomes a very tragic -- and permanent solution to -- just temporary problem."

" Golden Gate Bridge for instance became a destination for people attempting suicide it was blocked off. Is there hasn't been an attempt to block off this train side."

" There efforts under way to figure out how to do that it's it's -- could betray you need to get true. A lot of problems we get discussions were looking at what's been done in Europe where trains are much more plentiful and -- longstanding problem. The reality is that if you look at the search that if you block access to. And -- suicide magnet people don't necessarily in this anywhere -- Deed restrictions relating to the Golden Gate Bridge found that 58 people troops across the bay bridge which is equally high and equally dangerous. Street -- from their cars from the Golden Gate Bridge. And other studies have been done elsewhere people simply don't move anywhere else. So that efforts now -- look at perhaps an overpass to the trains that are lighting volunteer patrols surveillance cameras. In Europe they have these -- putting messages. It's simply almost impossible to stay on the tracks here the more you're there and also impenetrable barriers."

" Well and this would not be the first there -- of so called cluster suicides. But do school officials and parents does -- any idea why it's happening."

" They don't care about doing a lot of interviews with family members to find out what if anything this -- air buddies. Students. -- reality is that if the tracks -- there and it's they're they're known to be gleeful that. A young person can have a fixation thing having a hard a hard time and that might feel drawn to -- and this fiscal carrier could help prevent --"

" Where -- he said you and others have decided not to report names not to provide any more details about these children. But that's tough in this teenage because it's all over FaceBook in all the social networking sites his act is a talent and thinking about how to address that."

" It options did no way that -- kids -- protect patents are connected and that's a very it's -- reality -- actually the some of the most recent society. Can't hurt the train trying to stop there it can't be a mistake about it before we get that told us about it. Yeah reporting the -- that the risk is not to describe it as a as a -- Mercer dramatic act or even glorifying these young person which is. -- to do you love someone you care about someone."

" Lisa Krieger of the Mercury News in Palo Alto, California. Lisa thanks so much."

" Q -- you take a little break we'll be back in thirty seconds. You're listening here."

" Most Americans know about Salem Massachusetts which is always a busy place especially around Halloween. Salem was the setting of the -- which chiles the subject of Arthur Miller's the crucible. Home of the statue of Samantha of the which in the TV show -- witnessed. And we're switching to that little nose -- evening. But did you know that -- was also home to the country's first million. That an eighteen hundreds Salem had the highest per capita income of any American city infect Nathaniel Hawthorne -- up there. And random port for awhile and the report was the source of Saddam's fortune. Yes the Salem police cars have we T logos today but look closely at the city seal. It hasn't ship sailing into the east Indies the city's motto is to the farthest port of the rich east. Salem -- trade with a rich east flourish making the young American city -- the Silicon Valley. Doctor if we need -- street is co-founder of the mayoral education foundation she's written about this chapter of Saddam's history. Particularly the city's treated in the it's fascinating -- India story. Tells the stories of the young men who climbed on board ships for round trip that took more than 200 -- Chest treaties we just became a life float of the city went to the ships bring back."

" Deep got a lot off text it's different varieties of textiles from cotton to silk to different a woman's. Did not back out of spices and sugar and -- They brought that they intends give brought back -- is the first that the US and you now we think of cowboys doing than Dennis but with a from India. Yes the banana actually is the lead comes from my Hindi -- which means to tie it the lead is I'm gonna. And it was originally from the -- and I as style of making fabrics. And it was Dan and -- peace clock which is cut in a particular size to make handkerchiefs because the size of a bend and it today and we know about the -- of these sailors because they didn't. Text at that time they kept journals and they wrote about their. Their visits would like for -- from Salem define himself in India. Every sailor was given and log book and asked to write about the shoreline and would be. Soul and how they would navigate ships into port entry we know so much about this trade because he's not books became journalists. At the scene as maintained and -- about the experiences. In India it's read first encounter off. Americans mid east. That he -- about. The new native people. You know how -- DD and vote for -- each other Canadian example. So -- critical mention in the book he yet Wednesday to make some money. And he found actually lived invented in a beautiful big home at ten bedrooms. But he had lots of service that he could never understand why and how these severance plucked and they had all are very specialized tasks. And he writes in his head diaries and letters that he is. A little bit concerned why do you don't help with his dressing all the his eating and so on he one of them to be more of -- valley propel his. That is not the case that was not for anyone to do it the thing that came through this tree. Had an impact on religion you write about the unitarian churches that emerged in -- at this time what -- the unitarian connection. So ads the ads Salem citizens became much more open minded for the trade. New ideas through books coming from the east on these street ships infants spam. In fact that sometimes DC it is would get customer requests and one of them was to bring back -- sanskrit Bible. And so we have the public -- which is a book from the east coming on the ships. Which in time influenced. Emerson and thorough and of course a number of people in Salem. Which led to the feet and religious influences expanding into the unitarian church -- giving rise to the trans and analysts movement here in the U that's right. Well in the wonderful circle here it's a -- then influenced by India. And then the young Mahatma Gandhi was very influence buying through that's right so this is very interest in -- ideas travel and circled back. Do that would keep and as you said Taro and Gandhi and and Gandhi's influence in -- with the king."

" And so on -- and there was another thing that this huge trade between -- in India. Did to this you know growing America Salem at this point was the sixth largest city in the US it's so hard that. Think of now our little Salem and it's so accounted for 5% of all custom duties collected by the US an eighteen -- what did that when he mean to you."

" So. The Salem citizens actually contradict the formation the United States navy and and number of them was so young that they could retire -- From because having me so much money. And it can answer is -- is a good example he then went on to beat the Massachusetts senator. In in DC after -- meeting committee six on right. A number of others retired Andy and mentioned manufacturing excellent contribution of this trade was the the emergence of the industry evolution here. So as you say the fact that all of these Salem natives as young boys went off -- sailors made their fortune. And then were freed them do other things in only a threat and moves not number of them moved to Boston. Reach as the fun of the trade as seen -- declines Boston grows well that's part of the answer to what happened to Salem because what happened was in part Boston right. The cinema was not a natural pull out -- did not at a very shallow. Entry way so it was not treaty actually destined to be treating leader. As -- trade and and channels improved in New York City in Boston. These cities. Took over the trade from Salem eventually the industry evolution as Salem declines. Well thousands of people still -- in the Salem every year as tourists to see the witch museum have a very. You know big Halloween. Up in Salem. But they should perhaps. In afford to costume. Of the Indiana he think he -- in honor of the city's other legacy. Right and I think that is a very interesting aspect that drew me to Salem. Because one of the fascinating aspects of this trade was. Get a -- from the riches that came to the United States are keen to US to. A number of DC and -- developed good and long lasting relationships and friends in India. -- both Indy city of Calcutta and Mumbai. And names that the body and negotiators begin in so many gifts which I'm now. Pot of divorce rate that you take to the east at that time from the United States. So a lot of the bulk of the money and -- but of the trading goods that have taken from the United States was -- currency. So you're seeing the bulk lots of examples of just said the dollar's been taken. To India that's got to -- she's co-founder of the Miro foundation and author of the Salem Indian story. Thanks so much for talking most about it thank you."

" We get leave time for a quick check of the headlines the church of Scientology's calling a fraud verdict in France and inquisition of modern times saying it will appeal. A court in Paris today convicted the church of pressuring members in -- large sums of money and using commercial harassment on recruit but the French court didn't order the church of Scientology's in France to shut down also cloudy weather is the latest test launch of NASA's newest rock until at least tomorrow the Ares I X came within two minutes and thirty seconds -- launching. Before mother nature got in the way war. Back in a minute with how young Germans are remembering the fallen below wall with a High School Musical here and now."

" Welcome back here and now we promised you -- story about civil commitments for sex offenders keeping them beyond their jail time and we will have a look at that issue for you tomorrow. But we closed today with a look ahead at the twentieth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall the date is November ninth. And one of a certain age remembers where they were watching on TV as Germans took sledgehammers to do law. The number of students at the John F Kennedy school in Berlin are working on memorialized in that date. With a High School Musical the students at the German American schooler in rehearsals for a bilingual production called voices through too long. The BBC's Electra divorced and attended a recent rehearse."

" on second and we're gonna get here sometimes sit down -- closer to list. You didn't get actors risks and any -- my hat."

" Doctor -- Daniel teaches history psychology and drama at the John F Kennedy school. Right now he's wearing his directors what happens is the likes of course will go down."

" You all come out on this stage there will be some platforms that are raised. And you've been -- which we do all being opposed that is your character whatever that character might be some of the characters are based on real people."

" For the script again reduced material from interviews that students did for an oral history project. Then he had some serious fun there's an opening wife of -- west German banker a couple of tight -- east German border guards. And a sharp leggy blonde who sings her way out of an awkward situation. Is beneath."

" Ben Smith. Not catfish in not. Fund does not it is not against -- sign act and keeping."

" Alien V man's character and -- the hapless police informer who spying on her sound mining plan. Nine advise the Fonda."

" Luke my white flag of surrender she says. Not to be outdone by the -- season ditzy American tourist whose ignorance is obvious she admires the graffiti on the west side of the Berlin Wall."

" What amazes me is just how beautiful opinions it's like one enormous civic art project. Something that really -- to meet together. You can look at with pride. And talent. Is -- really seen. Not taking. Be honest. Like --"

" The checkpoints between east and west Berlin formed the backdrop for a Cold War romance between two music teachers. An east German man and an American woman who's being followed by a police informer the minute she crosses the border."

" That's him -- them. You can rip through the through like you Sarah Hughes and one student training you can always spot the New York wants to -- wanted to. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of in spying on you. On the contrary they -- in those are watching that as well as it was those terrible suits like these uniforms so you can recognize them. And enough -- and it being watched all the time. You try not to focus on it is all is that the back of your mind has to be. Says the wrong thing in front of the wrong people and you wind up in prison."

" The story only as saying the time where the ball is and -- he's -- It clock all and and the -- and -- and then used to stuck crossed lovers like a moment to get and we have. A punk which is needed. The best thing ever. But -- your -- already died that turquoise green color or did you just for the part I think that's a lot of reasons I got out of how much have you studied about the history of divided Germany. Colonel last year at least in my grade we did almost. Whole year and my gym class were doing a little more about them on the literature around at least from the parents grew up in east or west Berlin so they tell -- about their child and everything. But my mom -- the what's and so she taught me everything about that them. The following the law when she was there that things -- what's even better for me is that I had. The entire story about the -- on everything and also the two wars we're awards. And then this here I'm doing it again and the teachers say this on the American side are you American."

" Not. I'm -- that's Carrie Rodgers playing a -- in west Berlin subculture. She rants about the rigidity of German society when she's thrown out of art school for being a non conformist."

" They're so uptight like their minds are crammed into little -- and there's no room to breathe she says they -- the minute to that you from the cradle to the grave. They say we live free here but mr. west its all the same. At least in the east they're upfront about all their surveillance. Appeared to talk about freedom but they oppressed you -- every turn and these same."

" We done need. And you say sun. We done need no thought couldn't."

" So does the script to make historical sense to these students who never lived in a divided Germany."

" Definitely I think it's costly different outlets are related events because. Meager Oppenheimer piling on Imus I think it's really -- as a display is injured and adding England's mystery that really special atmosphere. -- school we learn a lot about this especially since we're in Berlin no we are surrounded by this. Almost every game. So I think all of us can make sense Oscars."

" The Communist east Germany the GDR isn't part of the curriculum for these students visiting from -- in Atlanta. Less than an hour's train ride east to bring."

" And an anti -- history -- really. 1818. And has no history of east Germany. No no history lessons from the pump or planned to answer the same that's -- so we don't have to sing and -- The studio."

" You grew up in what used to be the TV -- and you haven't learned anything about the history of the."

" In the medium. I think it's a political hot potato. The warm maybe down but they're still divisions and raw spots and inequalities."

" Studies confirm the topic is still too hot to handle for many teachers in east. But not as the JFK school system McKinney. Considering the Americans postwar occupation of west Berlin with the French and British allies the subject is inevitable."

" We don't avoid it in our school. In part I think because of our mission which we are bilingual. By cultural German American school and Kennedy standing at the walls saying is -- demeanor. There's no way we can avoid -- you thing with these issues."

" Twenty years after the them. Rise of -- the east German authorities called the anti fascist barrier. Voices through the wall offers a cheeky yet sentimental portrait of a scarred city. Without overlooking harsh realities such as to shoot to kill policy for anyone who tried to escape to the west. That -- script departs from the Cold War -- he was -- in the United States."

" But I've learned about shades. It was us against them the godless economy's. Very crappy system they had. That was a kind of mentality we are raised on when he got here -- was you realize it was not nearly so black and wine. How important is it that kids growing up today know about what came before the war. It's important. Way history that you experience is always more indelibly etched in your mind then steps that you were taught. Students who are growing up in a world where there is no wall where there are no two superpowers in this division doesn't work it is no longer there. It's natural for them to nine had these things fixed in their minds but doesn't mean we shouldn't teach them about. It's a gift to the younger generation if they don't grow up and -- divided Germany and they need to know the lessons of the division but I don't think they have to feed you'll. Because they weren't a part of that. And it's not their skills. An exciting time the teacher actually."

" That's teacher -- McDaniel also director of places to demolish John F Kennedy school in Berlin. His musical -- the week of November ninth the twentieth anniversary of the fall of the -- our report was produced by the BBC's Alexa divorce and here -- a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI's. I'm -- please. -- again. Here and now."

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