Title: Here and Now for Monday, October 26, 2009

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" And PRI and raping young it's here and now a UN contractor or a truck driver. Reportedly used a collision cob rifle to help fight off Taliban fighters says they stormed that UN guest house in Kabul Afghanistan's ruling. The militants killed at least a dozen people including an American before they were killed the Taliban also launched rocket attacks on the presidential palace. And a luxury hotel. In neighboring Pakistan another car bomb attack killed at least ninety people today. During secretary of state Hillary Clinton's visit to that country. All this is a New York Times reports today that the Obama administration. Is considering a shift in strategy in the region Tom Shanker comes -- pentagon and national security for the times Tom. So what is the Obama administration considering in its shift in strategy."

" Well as part of their new strategy review they'll end up deciding. Whether and -- Any more troops will be added to the mission is proposal from the commander cobbled journalist and lead in the crystal. To focus on protecting the population. So this is a central Tenet of counterinsurgency strategy to separate the population. From the insurgents who intimidate them. All of the corruption and pressure and argument goes that -- the population feel secure. They order support to central government. The country will grow and stabilized but it's kind of a risky strategy in some ways because by focusing on a limited -- Number of troops or we on the major population centers spirit effects surrendering vast swaths of the countryside to be insurgencies."

" Well and in and that's you do is shift because. We understood the thinking was protect the population but it seemed to be -- more far flung regions."

" That's exactly right agriculture from Vietnam there's this idea of strategic hamlets were individual villages were protected by troops what we started -- Afghanistan though as a peaceful or long remote outpost or religious bullet -- state -- to attack in general -- was decided that they really don't bring. A lot of security to the population but -- several hundred troops protecting. Very small pockets of the population that stand to listen is drawn from the surge in Iraq. -- all the extra forces with two of them major cities to protect the major population centers there's one shift for Afghanistan though general. With Crist wants to include in this idea population centers. The vital infrastructure that supports the quality of life actually is looking at a couple of the more fertile agricultural areas a couple of the industrial -- and the major highway systems that we. Lake Afghanistan's cities as well as the country to neighboring Pakistan and Iran if you get step for requests that -- It means a significant number of new troops and that's one of the things that are trying to debate right now."

" Well -- and that's interesting because you wrote the debate is no longer over whether to send more troops but how many."

" I think that's exactly right Adam and in my. Present Obama -- their support from the Democrats in congress to at a they're brigade or two of traitors the argument they're being that it was the Afghan security forces step up to Americans can step back. So I think it is pretty safe to say there will be some additional troops added -- on the 21000 already ordered their depression Obama. The real question is how fully what they embraced. Populations centric counterinsurgency strategy. The -- and if so how many more brigades will be assigned to which cities which highway systems which agricultural and industrial areas that's where the debate is right."

" And in his thinking that. Other parts of the country that are less populated would just be seated to the Taliban know. You quote a Senator John Kerry saying some of these areas don't need US troops are already hostile. To the Taliban."

" A combination in the in the north to parliament and introduce you really aren't that strong. There are parts because of ethnic tribal reasons insurgency -- But they're also areas where the insurgency. Is in no way a threat to the United States or even a threat to the government in Kabul. Insurgencies are because of anger from tribes or because of blogging or smuggling Turkish criminal element in where their release is politically motivated insurgency. The argument now goes. We can let them whether we can isolate them that they don't have access to major population centers they are not an immediate threat and has brilliant. Important decision now because what it says is that the American middle. Military is never going to kill -- insurgency but they need to sort of -- throttled back its oxygen. Long enough to be asked can't take over that mission."

" Obama would seem to now be disappointing. His supporters on the left to wanna him to pull out and even critics on the right like George will who wanted to pull out of Afghanistan."

" I think there is a certain everybody gets a little bit justices where they end up because protecting the cities is something everybody can appreciate. Let. Letting the strategy district counterterrorism. Empty space is kind of what I wanted so did this actually made to beat toward shaping up as a grand bargain so that everybody in that they can say hey we got a little something."

" Of the New York Times Tom thanks so much."

" Always a pleasure thank you for can."

" Tip O'Neill the late speaker of the house. Called Social Security the third rail of American politics touch it. And watch out for angry elderly voters. Will Medicare is the news third rail but will proposed changes to cut five billion dollars in ten years. And pants coverage for most by cutting waste. Or diminished coverage from. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell warned last week that these are major cuts -- serious consequences but the near times and it's for editorializing is that. Republicans are scare mongering and it's time to called into account. While we -- find out about that but also as scare her. What exactly is Medicare money get a primer from Stuart Altman he's professor of health policy Brandeis university's. -- school. He's been advising presidents since Nixon. President Clinton appointed him to the bipartisan commission on Medicare he also advised the Obama transition. On health care -- professor of all thank you so much room and get right to what exactly is Medicare."

" Well Medicare and its simplest form that's number simple. Is basically it's made -- before parts part a which we're all familiar with we pay your taxes each month when we're working. And I trust fund to setup and that's what provides us if we need hospital care are extended care and nursing home. Or a rehab. Part B of pace for a physicians' services and pace for outpatient care in general. That is paid for by a combination of premiums that every one who. And it's voluntary you don't have to belong but 95%. Of people. Who were on part of a by the way part a every one of belongs who paid an automatic automatically. Part B have to choose but as -- everyone chooses and you -- extra rich and you get definitely extra coverage includes a lot but it's primarily for outpatient care physician care of drugs now. Then we've created port -- and the part C which will talk about a minute is this Medicare Advantage and and you wanna spend time Jimenez set aside and under the Medicare part. It's a complicated program people have to sign up with private insurance in the in the government supports them and it's that infamous donut whole --"

" It's there isn't just jump in the donut hole because we were so proud of ourselves who managed to thrashed through this this morning the donut hole. It -- president and of participants only pay at a co pay. Until between them and the insurance they've spent a little over 2500 dollars then come as the doughnut hole during which participants pay the full amount. Until they've paid as much as 3200 or so in full amount for the prescription drugs then after that. And the insurance company takes over pretty much all the payments they hardly have any company to get the donut right."

" I think you did it right I think the numbers on the high side are higher than that but I think you gotta ride and it's a complicated plan and it would take me a long time to explain who in the world created that and -- it was created but that's essentially."

" OK and then let's go back to see and by the way also just in an overarching way. Medicare is for the elderly Medicaid. As opposed to Medicaid which is primarily for the poor and the engine children."

" And one other thing I would say that. That there are some people -- both on Medicare and Medicaid medical dual eligible so few very poor and -- and you're over 65. And I would say one other thing there are few other people qualified to Medicare. If you're suffering from end stage renal disease -- program you qualify for Medicare even if you're under 65. And there are certain disabled. Who qualify for --"

" Okay Medicare. Advantage. I think this is where the huge controversy is this is where the cuts are planned this Medicare Advantage."

" Medicare Advantage was set up in the mid 1980s that allows people to sign up with private insurance managed care companies. It's it's gone through three generations they changed the name of it but essentially allows people to sit opt out of traditional Medicare. Get their benefits. From nine managed care company and then the government pays the managed care company and the idea was it would give become -- the government some competition by using private -- yes and there have been and there is arguments in favor of them because some of these plans. On the -- coordination of care and provide extra benefits they do more efficient way of providing care. And so many people who are traditionally been -- managed care of what he worked for -- this insured by Kaiser on the west coast or tufts health plan here and in the Boston area you know you just traditionally move when you entered Medicare you can just take that on okay."

" So -- Obama. White House and Democrats in congress. Are talking about making cuts specifically to Medicare Advantage what's the debate over Medicare Advantage twits that's. What's perceived as the problem when it."

" Well beginning in 1990s and then. The congress began -- he had extra funding for certain areas that are on Medicare. Advantage. We have a very that's it that this country is broken up into a many different places and in some places the spending in Medicare is much lower than in others. And the ones -- are -- spending was low like in rural areas -- on the west coast in Seattle and Portland. They wanted more money for Medicare Advantage and so manicured the image payments from the government began to exceed. What Medicare traditionally pays for the same people. And so over fourteen decision under the act averages around fourteen to 15% more more and in some places in much of 30% more."

" And why would -- went to Medicare Advantage. Participants again they pay a little extra. In addition to their premiums that their Medicare being what what do they get extra."

" Well the fair assessment is the critics of this -- it does is go to the insurance companies that's totally not true. Yes the insurance companies in some cases do and it may be many cases make more. As a result of that but a lot of it goes to Medicare extra benefits. It goes for reduced or eliminated premiums you talked about the doughnut hole some of these Medicare Advantage planes fill in that doughnut -- It goes for some extra benefits here in the air but for the most part it fills in. A lower premiums low co payments and extra benefits particularly on the drug's side then."

" And they get other extra benefits like for instance hearing aids at times we we read health club memberships yes they do I mean the -- club memberships there."

" You don't sound like -- think that the designed to keep people healthy sure."

" So. So bring us to the heart of the debate their."

" Admitted there the the Democrats say that in making some cuts to Medicare Advantage they can. Would take some of that money and fund more benefits for people in general Medicare."

" Yeah well -- the basic argument in favor of the cuts are 21 is why. Is that because we pay so much more there are Medicare Advantage plans that really are not doing that much. They just they just they're able to provide all these extra benefits and not do good things like coordination of care in a more efficient system. That's not -- of all of them but that's so that's hi man number one item number two. Is why should Medicare pay for more benefits for just some population and by the way we're talking about eleven million. We're 25% of all Medicare people now want to Medicare Advantage."

" Well and -- into the leadership council of aging."

" You know that's that some of that extra money gets built into the part B premium and so I guess there is some most of it is coming out of -- be the general tax money. Or or of the trust one."

" We'll also again there's the question is it fair. That there are some seniors who get these extra benefits if in fact maybe the playing field. Could be made a little more even if there were some cuts made of course seniors who get those benefits and pay for -- and feel -- they've -- them live longer and healthier lives are outraged that they may be taken to a it would connect. Continue our look at the battle over Medicare with Stuart Altman of Brandeis University when we come back some solutions and suggestions. We'll see not everybody is happy that in a minute here now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of Matt -- and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back we're getting a primer in Medicare from Stuart Altman a professor of health policy at Brandeis university's Keller school he is an extensive -- in Washington he knows. When he speaks he works his work for president on both sides of the advise them about government health insurance programs and -- just explained this. He -- he said the new third -- of health care reform which is. What has sort of focused on Medicare Advantage this is a part of the Medicare program -- millions of seniors. Pay in tunic is -- little extra benefits but now there's talk in health care reform of making some cuts. And that we mentioned near times editorial that talks about Medicare with -- Medicare scare murmuring. They say that. That these cuts would make Medicare bidder for more people by enhancing drug coverage reducing premiums. Eliminating co pays say for preventive services and helping to keep Medicare solvent which she review. Of whether or not cuts have to be made in Medicare Advantage."

" Well I I I think it's fair to say that to the extent that the funds that are being cut from Medicare Advantage do go back into the Medicare program. And there are cases where does go there's going to be some improvements in the -- drug benefits one of the three things the times but most of the money. Most of the money in the cuts are gonna go to support. The coverage for people not on Medicare. Now that doesn't say that this is not fear of course fairness is in the eye of the beholder. And for those people on Medicare Advantage they will see a cut in benefits. For most people on Medicare it will either improve the situation. Or at least leave it alone and yes it will put off for a little while. I'm very little while the problem we're gonna have been funding Medicare it will not -- solve the Medicare."

" But we want to ask you about the solvency of Medicare the first just what what cuts do you foresee happening in Medicare Advantage of we we mentioned that they made. Lose benefits like hearing aids or health club memberships as you said those aren't frills you know. Well I think it's."

" More than I think it's the premiums in the extra drugs I think it depends critically on what part of the country -- and and and what the differences in the plan that you go for some plans. That have been relying on these extra payments beginning twenty to 30% -- really on doing very much for. The cuts are gonna be very significant. For those plans that are an urban areas or in plans that really not had managed care. If these cuts are phased in over time and then not too draconian. I think the impact on benefits will be very."

" Well Bill Nelson the democratic senator from Florida is pushing an amendment that would preserve Medicare Advantage programs and benefits. In states where plans cost the government less than traditional Medicare this because so many people are in the plan and that includes his state you know Florida. Almost a million seniors and the plan but then that would -- seniors in you know North Dakota."

" Well to be fair and one of the reasons why he can propose that is that the cost of traditional Medicare in Florida was off the charts. So if you compare of what they get in Florida for traditional Medicare to what they get in Seattle. It's probably a 40% difference so. They can afford to have Medicare payments on their Medicare Advantage -- or right but in other parts of the country they can't."

" Well and then here's and other things that critics say they they say first of all if we start cutting away -- Medicare Advantage. Some companies that can carry Medicare Advantage -- commercial insurers that work with the government and private insurers. May drop it and also get all Hinske who ran Medicare under president George HW bush so another problem is that many places like nursing homes. Depend on extra revenue not just Medicare but for Medicare Advantage to subsidize. The patients who don't have it."

" I think she's correct and it's not only that it's also certain physician groups that depend upon decapitated payments from Medicare Advantage. Again I think what's critical isn't so much that we're gonna have cuts it's that these cuts are phased in. And that -- not so draconian that they coup was substantial disruption. The idea of leaving. 15%. Differential I think is off the table I think it's just a question of how we. 50% extra money going going to Medicare Advantage I think that have fairness dictates that that be cut that it's how we do it and how tough those cuts are."

" Questions for you Stuart Altman when you say the big question is whether Medicare system -- sustainable in the long run into."

" I think the answer is yes but it will the changes I wanna make it very clear I have a conflict of interest among Medicare. I want I want I wanted to continue."

" During the next question which is a lot of people saying -- professor at Brandeis -- fairly okay. Will have to start looking at who get Medicare that it may not be for all seemed."

" I believe in the concept of social insurance I do believe. That people of higher income she can pay more and by the way let me very clear. I yes I am doing okay thank you know. Let's send having having a job at my age. But and I as a result are paying twice as much for my Medicare part B is people who have low income right we are -- income relating Medicare and I think that's okay. But I don't think we should say and make Medicare. Totally an income related program the fact that we have a social insurance program is key to Medicare and I would hate to see that be destroyed. Well and what do you think finish your thought. About what you would like to -- well at the end what we need is we need a combination of things there is no question that going forward -- five years from now or eight years from now. We're gonna need a combination of more money into Medicare and we're gonna need Medicare to change the way it pays for care. And to develop more efficient system Medicare. With -- much as I and that have support for it does not have a correctly. And there's a lot of waste in Medicare. So that we can we need to change Medicare Medicare is not broken but Medicare has problems. And if we don't do that. If we live with the same income and continue to pay the same way then we are gonna have a serious."

" Crisis or say when you say waste you're not talking about health club memberships for the elderly -- talking about fraud and yes."

" Well I'm talking about two things I mean we combine waste and and fraud fraud should be stopped."

" Second waste is when we do things inappropriately and and we can do it better by doing -- you know like when -- a hospital because she is gonna get about ten procedure she didn't exactly. -- Stuart Altman professor of health policy at Brandeis university's -- school. Stuart thanks so much as -- so it's a pleasure and take a second but you know I tomorrow gonna take a look at a new documentary that remembers the late actor John -- You remember him in the deer hunter Dog Day Afternoon. About freedom in the godfather. We were -- this extraordinary actor. Tomorrow still had to -- conversation about civil commitment what does it mean. Here now."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder where partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and war. Ice CA Boston dot --"

" I'm running young welcome back here now okay -- getting used to saying turnpike series. People living between Pennsylvania and New York alone in New Jersey Turnpike are trying to decide yankees Phillies Phillies yankees as the series. Travels back and forth between Philly and the Bronx starting tonight. When the defending World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies take on the New York Yankees who 103. Games this past season. Then writers covering the games for Sports Illustrated then. For the last two years we've had Cinderella teams make it to the series the Tampa Bay Rays in 2008 there. Colorado Rockies in 2007 this year to marquee match up so first of all. Excited about this question."

" There's little question -- opportunities of the two premier teams in baseball right now -- cut. What's that it that the best National League team facilities. The best American League team and yankees. Clubs those powerful offenses this will be the first time since 1927. -- the World Series will feature each league. Team leader home runs and runs scored. And they're looking to get excited or proud that they were gonna be from the premier pitchers in the league three times each possibly. Talking about the Yankees ace CC sabathia. And this could be very quickly that these guys have a lot in common. Their former teammate on the Cleveland Indians Booker left tended. But their former Cy Young award winners. Michigan matchup against each other potentially three times in Wednesday night's game one in game four and gave secretary gets it --"

" Okay well excited I think game to game two -- former Boston Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez are former love here in Boston but. In fact he's made it to the post season six times but always with the Red Sox now he's with the Phillies. And he'll be matchup with AJ Burnett of the Yankees that that's getting game to. We've got all the hyperbole all these great leaders great pitchers great teams. Does that sort of raise the bar it'd be great games."

" Absolutely and ager Martina that you mentioned as a that'd static key here he's taken to calling himself the old goat during this press -- and but it certainly hasn't been pitching like that so far and hit acquisition by the general manager Ruben -- of the facilities. There's a big reason why they've gotten this -- has a big reason why they have a chance. Unit against a team as powerful and as rich and has loaded like the Yankees."

" And is hated in some quarters I can say that I'm from New York urgently. -- two other characters. The stadiums and and the new Yankee Stadium in the Bronx and Citizens Bank Park in Philly Howard they gonna. -- year old."

" These but these places are considered launching pads and baseball parlance particularly Yankee Stadium. Short right field porch to yankees and had little trouble cooking Ballmer about wall all evening long. And so is of course a great slugger Greg Ryan. Howard should have a little trouble as well. One key for the Yankees in my mind. Is that Mark Teixeira really gets things going the first base and for the Yankees he struggled a bit in the proceedings fittingly to a five. Which is way below Harry performed during the regular season when he emerged of the real. MVP candidate in the American League he's gonna have to speed up a little bit here and I think perhaps playing he's been boxes might just be the thing to do it."

" These little band -- disease -- jewel box is all stadiums so so a lot of home runs it's always fun. The fans they're both east coast. Teams. Fans from vibrant cities that shall we say it. All have a colorful approach to their cheering."

" You're actually right about that you mention the New Jersey Turnpike some outlandish to dispute could happen on the Amtrak. Streamlined in new York and Philadelphia. Over the next week or so. I think that in the normal case out surgery -- the players -- Philadelphia fans can really you know kind of riot. Communicate maybe among the gamble --"

" Of course eight you know this is A-Rod the hugely hitter for the Yankees."

" Of course broad unity he -- and struggled in the pat. But it seems to be almost an event like state there's October. Ollie says that I'm seeing the ball hitting the ball. He's having one of the greatest Upton to persecuted anyone ever had so far so I don't think that the Phillies fans will be able to put them up his game. Too much."

" But they will try. Think that. That's been writer of Sports Illustrated getting us ready for the World Series that starts tonight then thanks so much. And something -- we were gonna hear a lot about peoples mothers and their shoe there he no confidence in such. I'm New Yorker -- can see that here and now."

" What should be done with convicted sex offenders who don't jail time and yet raise concerns that they may re offend. Well since the late ninety's more more states are turning to civil commitment. While it's being questioned for federal prisoners in the case before the Supreme Court. It is illegal for states to keep sex offenders confined. After they've done their time. And here in Massachusetts the district attorney is asking the state we just the law so that juries rather than judges decide whether someone should be civilly committed. This after a judge released did not civilly recommit a convicted defender despite pleas from the prosecutor. That offender went onto attack a woman five days after his release. With an -- get an introduction to civil commitments with someone involved in deciding who gets them. Doctor Anna Salter is a psychologist she consults with the Wisconsin department of corrections she evaluates sex offenders forcible commitment doctor sultan. We know there are also civil commitment laws for people for instance who are mentally in Allen might be danger to themselves under others. But how many states has civil commitment laws for sex offenders and what of the general requirements."

" Twenty states now have civil commitment laws -- sex offenders. And the concept pretty similar from state to state. Perfect attendance should be eligible have to have aids diagnosis that leads him to look we -- functionally. For example of schizophrenia. Would not just right typically it's called schizophrenia different -- for acceptance of where it's part of feeling it was to -- He also where she has to be more likely than not in most states to re offense efficiently some kind of risk levels that included him in the law. And they have to have been most places serious difficulty in controlling his -- to re --"

" And we understand that one of the reasons that states started using peace civil commitment programs. With the hope of treating people while in jail so or that they could be released and possibly. Helped."

" Well that's controversy at all apparently that's what some people believe critics of the law say that law was simply intended to keep them off the streets but what it. Actually built into the market treatment that you treat them and they aren't released until they've lowered the rest of these things."

" Well and critics say the majority are released they stay in civil commitment because. Some treatments don't work."

" Well. Some of the treatment. And don't want but the truth is when you are attending the top ten. And percent of -- sex offenders it's really not a surprise me that not all of them are able to lower their risk of we have friends."

" you're part of a review process."

" More than a review it connected to an actual trial. For example I did civil commitment to valuations that kind of odd couple for the federal government -- sixty -- offered different states particularly if they've felt. Well Iowa and others get their minor differences between. Dates at the bottom line and said it typically takes more than one of the regulation. To refer them for have a commitment and it goes to a trial. And they offender has an opportunity to defend itself. Fully. And make the claim that he did not meet criteria and of course the prosecution -- Claiming that he can't."

" And then and then how is it reviewed down the road."

" It does that's different depending on the state confirmed states should automatically view every year for example in other states -- offender have to apply for -- To review pastor. Amount of time at the -- have a built in review process."

" Well interviews at the front in -- news. Being considered for civil commitment how often do you conclude that they should be civilly committed."

" Well it in my expansive set about half the time but you have to remember that's not -- the sex -- the -- sex offenders or being. Referred -- in the air hybrid -- offenders. When they come to me there's already been screening process that probably. -- found about 90% of Mexican."

" Will we know that you're not here's a defender of it's sex offenders but can you explain that to people who you know are reacting to these stories -- across the country and they don't think that anyone who is considered. A serious offender should be released we know other people like Andrew flash. He was made a symbolic -- net all had a file should be held on an island simply because there untreatable. So can you just briefly explain to people how is it that someone might not go to civil commitment as opposed to how is it that they do."

" Well I think the public affairs and give it all sex offenders as things stand that they all high risk offenders but study after study after study after study. Almost come to the same conclusion and that is face a range of sex offenders had sex offender should have a 4% chance of re offended. And it sex offender could have a 76%. Chance of being offended with and the first came here. Nobody cares about the ones who do not re offend so if you get one we have sent everybody thinks that's typical of a sex offenders. And it's really not true. Secondly the properly containing all of them is we don't have to choose between funding or university confirmed that -- presence. When you're painting in some states close to a 100000 dollars per year per year for civil commitment every -- offenders system million dollars. To say that we could now also incarcerate and 90% effective and are still aren't high risk. And then -- such as they can I don't think people understand the impact that would have."

" Is there anything to be done to make sure that deem most -- those most likely to acidity. Are held in civil commitment."

" I think the process is pretty good because we have new instruments from the last few years which predict with much greater accuracy. Who is likely to be offended and who isn't I think the process for getting them and it pretty good. It's a lot more difficult to determine when they've made changes. That would constitute released them."

" One last question here in Massachusetts there's a move to switch consideration of civil commitment at the beginning from a judge to a jury the Middlesex County attorney. General here thinks that juries in -- much tougher more likely. To send. People to civil commitment then judges to any thoughts on that."

" My test of time for the judges and cherished. And I didn't surprise -- tradition -- are fairly tough to get past they don't take depriving someone. Civil liberties slightly."

" It's really interesting because when you hear these these stories in the children in particular disappear there's such public outrage. They you'd think the that would transfer to a jury but you're saying that even juries to you've seen sort of stop short and reconsider do I want to. Literally a sent someone twice for the same crime which is what -- menace."

" The victim from there and the offender is and if they look presentable and talk wound that has an enormous impact on jury. But you must remember everybody's afraid most of all of of the killer. And 60%. Sadistic killers had no criminal record. The Atlantic kind of stuck up all of that. So horrible stuff that goes on by focusing entirely don't repeat sex offenders -- majority of serial killers don't have a trial run for."

" That's an insult or psychologist to -- for the Wisconsin department of corrections and also evaluates sex offenders were civil commitment for the federal government on that. Very somber note conduct assault -- thank you so much. You remember we'd love to hear your thoughts on this or any story -- here now dot org click on contact us send us an email with them here from you. You're listening here and now."

" Support for here and now comes in part from the Rockefeller Foundation and its campaign for American workers. More at rock found dot org. It to come."

" And some Ronald -- knocked on wood and tasted compounded the and that is why your cousin I found through all applauded."

" That's Ogden Nash reading his column the termite on the -- becomes of the new book of poems for kids and their parents. The book connects poetry and science to illustrate Darwin's theory of evolution. It's called that treat that time built a celebration of nature science and imagination. Do that threat. And do not doubt. You are in time you can't follow. No matter what you say or do. You are in time. Time continue. And everything that -- to me. Looking time. Upon this tree the -- were selected by it and some like that one written by the US children's poet laureate. She's Mary Ann hoberman and she joins us in the studio welcome --"

" And we're also joined by her collaborator Linda Winston a cultural anthropologist and teacher. Linda welcomed you as well thank you and Marion a first of all who knew this there was a children's poet laureate. Not -- I guess it's brand new. And that home that we heard the team that time built that the book is -- of the same name. Is yours which trying to say that poem you do not Fred do not doubt you are in time you can't fall out."

" I don't know exactly what it means even though I wrote I don't remember who said. This person said you can't fly out of time and ever since then I heard many years ago -- unto -- it's one of my mountains. Terrible things can happen but you can't five time and so I wrote this little person managing to -- so beautifully cool."

" And it seems like a perfect thing to say to a child who might be thinking how is -- that I get and stay on -- search which I'm learning is a circle and spinning around you know actually can't foment anti matter. And I I have to ask you it's a beautiful book becomes an audio CD filled with some of the poems. And house of commons and at the bottom of the page you wanna get to that that track parallels between homes in science. But we understand this about. The evolution of life Charles Darwin might be essential character -- ask you about this because you're marking the 200 anniversary of Charles Darwin's birth has only 39% of Americans. Believe in his theory of evolution. Were you thinking about that when you're putting this together for kids."

" I had the feeling and she did to of course that. Evolution was going to be. Falling on hard times in the public school districts in many states. And I felt and send her -- and one of the few people who can make an important difference now. -- you need to do is collect fifteen or twenty of the poems you've already written. And we -- right film pros links. That will show how they're connected to darlings concept. And at that point Marion recited a poem is this into poised and confident who actually let's hear a little bit of -- points."

" Barrett right towards. I often influenced. Cadences I've written and -- can claim who has from the great writers for children and wrote suggests those stories how Leo and cut his. Trunk had a camera consular department the end of each of these stories and it the end of and a camel hump. He broke the Camel's -- an -- language well he would -- citizen but I -- whom we get from having too little to do. Can these two groups to move when they haven't ineptitude will -- home. Concerns come home to his black and blue that rent them wouldn't leave me. Until I wrote my own home which is caught on her way. And actor -- means man. And here's this poem this is really on the books. The next time notices. In the slow down from manager to two Owens incident the -- audits hasn't changed for the related TUT union related TU TU listening related to be unique to fathers and mothers and sisters and Brothers. And the people we see you we think. Chimpanzees gorillas in the wrecking and time in the wall while he's remarkable preaching share most of our future. And the difference between the small. And this book is my dream mentality. This is what I would've loved to have -- when I was a child."

" It just just some sampling error upon that I really like is and then from Adam by Ralph Waldo Emerson it reads. Adam from Adam you on as far as -- from earth and start from stone. And we he'd -- that. Nobody really knew that --"

" in our common comment we points and but that's what is so remarkable about poets that they often anticipate scientific. Discoveries have come home."

" Here's some mothers and you have Marion have written a poem about these but so did Emily Dickinson. The pedigree of honey the pedigree of honey does not concern would be clover any kind him he's aristocracy. But that lets you explain to children. We will pollination Smith yes yes. Vote polar bear."

" A polar bear. By being quite. Gives up his camouflage at night. And yet. Without a fault or care. He wonders here meanders there. And -- treads the -- flow who's completely unconcerned with faux news. Four after dark. Nobody dare us to set out after. Polar banners."

" Here's another one you Korea used a discovery. A discovery. On my -- smooth green Billy -- it's no button patent a little bit. -- Valerie earth has -- flies. Flies with their bones on the outside it became. -- that we think that. Poetry has nothing to do with science and science has nothing to do with poetry and he wanted to senators from each one of them I think seems to be. A mysterious."

" Kind of mountain to climb out of work there's lots and lots of teachers and kids and for sure that concept and evolution are complex. But it isn't fair to think that they're not able to be understood if there. Properly presented and -- it's very often do. This wonderful poem. About a frog that Marianne has in this. Collection and when I showed the book too dark biologist friend she fixed on that -- and she said this poem is science. It's many different branches of science line by line list of."

" Polly wiggle PolyOne I can't hold bull frog leaked on long legs joke around -- speaking country spy spy back."

" Her eyes skin cold blood spot in you're Mikey but the sound long legs -- jelly eggs late in wet fog."

" Fund. That is the US children's poet laureate Mary and her -- together with cultural anthropologist Linda Winston. They've put together the book the treatment time built a celebration nature science and imaginations and sentinel succumbed to the CD. Couple last one's just splitting. Linda you read this on the CD could you read of course it's -- Christian Anderson it's on page sixteen."

" Just living is not enough. Said the butterfly. One must have sunshine. Freedom. And a little flower. With a woman who think until tune we want to close with Christine O'Connell George reading her old elements peaks. What a wonderful message to keep to keep things -- thank you and me. It in as I told you young without playing. It will take items of patient. Before -- first. Moon."