Title: Here and Now for Friday, October 30, 2009

" Support for this podcast comes from allied bank. Committed to straightforward banking at allied bank dot com visitors can compare bank rates all in one place with allies rate comparison -- now is a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI."

" I'm running young it's here and now the CIA is reportedly intensifying its surge in Pakistan. For an alleged 9/11 plot or who once ruled with 9/11 hijacker Mohamed -- The Pakistani military uncovered the former roommates passport in the Taliban's stronghold of South Waziristan. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton could be saying I told you so yesterday she angered pakistanis by saying in unusually forceful language. That she'd done it hard to believe that government officials didn't know where al-Qaeda operatives were hiding. James Gordon amicus national security reporter for the New York Daily News. And James it's your sources that say the CIA is increasing it's efforts to find this man sang lead by high AG a German citizen but what do we know about him."

" This site apology was a member of the Hamburg cell and identified as such in the documents is an eleven commission's final report. There has been a kind of obscure figure in the nine elevenths narrative but definitely an important one. Because Hamburg Germany is where a lot of the operational planning for the -- the plot was conducted -- And where obviously Mohammed ought judge Europe and -- around a -- shouldn't it was probably just below were all living prior to the attacks."

" But as you say mr. about hygiene was mentioned in the 9/11 commission report and they described him as an insecure follower with no personality and limited knowledge of Islam. So what does it mean what are officials as saying it means that his passport has showed up in Pakistan and by the way -- an interesting story about. How it was really discovered it was hits."

" Well a couple things about that -- first of all of the battle of attrition report also showed that in spite of his limited knowledge of Jerusalem media -- professed. His desire for a Jihad and was given a heads up by Ramzi Binalshibh but it was supposed to be one of the hijackers but couldn't get a decent of the US. That he ought -- was gonna go to Afghanistan not now be at a time ago -- left week before at about eleven attacks and as a passport which was put on display -- reporters yesterday had a -- its its -- report 2001 interest to have. It's not totally clear the pakistanis realize that they have been terrible what they found in terms of this document they put it on display and some other documents. And some very very old antique captured weapons from just South Waziristan a military offensive. And other as a journalist who said hey do you know who this guy has -- appointed to the passport seemed to catch some of the Pakistani military -- off guard -- Haji according to my sources. See I have kept track this -- I'm not gonna totally incompetent or at least. But you have to attain the rank and I'll try to since nine elevenths he is a senior propagandist and believed to be involved in the operational. Activities so. I can say that I that the CIA is looking a lot harder for now we just have one thing though. It is common practice for al-Qaeda operatives to hand over their travel documents to their security people when they -- of the tribal areas. So he could -- had -- passport you know eight years ago. And could be long gone but they do believe he is alive and is an active. Operative of al-Qaeda."

" Will secretary of state Hillary Clinton has left Pakistan and in -- today she's saying that he -- she made -- very strong statement but she felt she had to say something about. The government there or someone there she sort of added a caveat someone in Pakistan knowing where al-Qaeda fighters are. What's the sense of those comments she made some of says she's gone off she went off script."

" I doubt she went off script I think the pocket and increasingly you -- American officials over the you know it looked just it wasn't that long ago Robin. But no one in the US government would even say that a solid Lawton. And his chief lieutenants were even in pocket start. There were just say -- humanity. Afghanistan Pakistani tribal areas. Now they say it very definitively so I think what she said yesterday about. Somebody in the government must know it's hard to believe no one knows where we're to -- tribal leaders are critical comments were spot on a particular bird would currently delivered. -- it rattled people pockets on the look states that that's where the hierarchy of al-Qaeda. Lives."

" Well the Pakistani military has deployed 30000 troops in South Waziristan -- about 8000 militants there. They're crowing that they are driving the militants into deeper areas exits are choked but some are worried and at least one resident is quoted in the New York Times is saying. They worry that the opposite is happening that the army is being sucked in and that they are -- going to be a hit hard by terrorists."

" Well that's deadly creatures Pakistani military doesn't server -- up against the Taliban they take cover it very heavy casualties. Typically. And that develops bridge for their habit of American jobs and it look at our commitment. So we really are fighting. Mostly what it's doing is airstrikes or army and an ever gonna take South Waziristan good luck guys that's what I would search. It's definitely stronghold for the Taliban stronghold of the -- warlords who can go kind of stated in. And I think it will continue to be so."

" Did -- in the covers national security for the New York Daily News James thank you. Craft."

" On this Friday we've spent a little time and a great idea. If you've got kids or thinking of something leaving a legacy to someone. Make it a list of the things you think they should know. That became a particularly great idea when Johnny Cash did it and the things he thought his daughter -- should know was."

" Ten and then removing. Time."

" Mother -- children and twelve songs and a new CD from Rosanne Cash it's called bonus. And it features twelve of the 100 songs on the list her dad gave her when she was eighteen. Losing cast joins us in the studio with the story welcome thank you what happened what sparked the list what was going on."

" sparked a list was my ignorance. Where I was on the road with him and we were writing on the bus and he mentioned a song and I said I don't know that one of its own even remember now I don't remember now but when your carrier for signs that I didn't know and then he says okay. And he got out as legal pad he spent the rest of the afternoon making this list for me wit what with his added to it was. -- very thoughtful. I you know that's the image I have in my mind of him sitting there with his pencil raised about the legal pad thinking about which song he was gonna put next. And it was an exciting thing for him to do because he had all of the songs at his fingertips. Important thing that's an important you know it's important is that I'd managed to save it for him. I was just thinking it would be attrition for anyone to have for the parent has now -- yes but it becomes a national treasure because we get to know Johnny Cash. Thought definitely a cultural treasure -- I see it is a personal magazine like it's over a martial arts seek treasure something you know. But you're right it's also a cultural tension -- had some high profile help on this project Bruce Springsteen -- still adjust between Rufus Wainwright by the way. Did any of them already knows music in any names I wanna do this one. They all knew all of this music. It's it's there there are all incredibly well versed in American roots music in southern music. So I didn't have to you know -- could you learn -- they knew it. That we asked them specifically. You know I asked Bruce a -- ads seen on -- apartment. And he said yes and the truth."

" CB."

" Losing attention as we listen to them Houston's museum every continent CD. What would you listen to when you did need this -- you didn't know somebody's on when did you. Well I was a Beatles freak first and foremost as president in my Beatles fan club -- pre adolescent. So and I grew up in California so I was listening to news Neil young and Buffalo Springfield announcement John and you know Janis Joplin and then Joni Mitchell so all of the singer songwriters and the British invasion all of that I knew. Inside and out. But my mother was listening to Ray Charles and Marty -- dose of those things kind of went and and of course my dad's music. But this list that he made for me was so specific. To who he was. It wasn't just illicit music it was himself. And that's the real beauty for me. You've said that long black of the Hilton is sort of the core of the and list. I don't think so. There is no country music without the black you know it's it kind of it assimilate everything that's great about country music -- narrative. You know they really clear narrative to murder ballad. That kind of cinematic quality to the scenes. The more informants those shows minor chord changes you know it's just it's got everything. That's -- lefty for cells version was point nine -- And you know from childhood. And then my -- question green cars -- homes prisons so that this was the one I felt most close to my dad."

" Is she wrong it's. Yeah. Steve."

" pain."

" Me. Alone not know."

" Yeah me."

" Tell you as he made his listeners in cash did Johnny did Johnny Cash goes through and say this is why these are important they didn't find it's. He said some of them why they were important but you know he Adam musicologist understanding of the evolution of country music and so early folk songs were included protest songs. -- Really important points in the evolution of country music so that became clear when I read the list I got my dad has -- musicologist understanding of this. -- actually heard him. Talk about it later on he came to my daughter's kindergarten class and gave that overview in terms of five funeral could understand."

" We'll tell about that because yes Johnny Cash came to a can got to click it and apparently delivered one of the best. Greatest like amber and it wet weather cool. I was sitting or watch -- have my job is on my chest and his mother next to me leaned over and said. And should really be recording bits and of course you know is so impromptu date no one will only TT."

" C two a five year old about you know motherless children nor 500 miles I -- what -- what he's saying. As I recall this is an eighty sevens but as I recall he talked about the importance of gospel in southern blues in the evolution of country music. And also folk and protest songs there's too far corners away from each other but they're both essential to the evolution of country music. So he Tina -- he talked about that -- a child can understand -- we talked about Woody Guthrie. As well as sister Rosetta star who was it deep gospel singer. I moved to have been her plan that long have been a fly and that while my goodness announce so I feel like well the list is. Kind of giving tribute to that little --"

" to -- for my hero who listen to more this is hardest. -- featuring her system now. And has his new CD the list includes twelve songs her father Johnny thought she should know. Songs he considered essential American musical have modes as an actor great. And later was again who killed by political dirty tricks. Here."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to our conversation with Roseanne cash about her new CD the list. Twelve song from the list her dad gave her when she was eighteen the songs Johnny Cash new in his bones and confidence in him to."

" It's. -- here."

" That's she's got. And I think -- listen Roseanne I feel we should give credit to some of the people who wrote the songs and to tell us some of the song writers here."

" Well they're very few who are still living me that's the first I have to say it's kind of heartbreaking that a lot of these songwriters I can't should hand delivered to CD to him. But. Hank Cochran who wrote she's got you is eighty years old I believe he's not well and he came to hear me performed she's got you would just I you know I was in tears it was such an emotional. Evening. Merle Haggard one of the greatest country songwriters who ever lived through -- silver wings is are clearly still alive and a wonderful still performing you know. Bob Dylan is another staff writer. Married John Wilkins is the only woman. Of the songwriters and she co wrote long blackmail she's not still living that I met her annihilate teens and she news. Fairy. Instrumental in me becoming a songwriter."

" The sooner you get to pay online analysts. You mentioned Bob Dylan included is his girl from the north country you're dead did duet with Dylan. -- 6969. On Dylan's Nashville skyline. Was to smooth. --"

" Okay."

" When you -- when the sun news. It's anything and -- growth in north country because I just performed you know on prairie healthier menu dispute and I was starting to choke up again. Everytime I start to sing this song it's. It's this feeling that everything has come full circle in my life. You know I have images of my dad and Bob recording that song in 1969. Which made me the coolest fourteen year old on the planet -- And I'm still pretty cool actually and then. If you know I just wish so much my dad is everything anger over majority -- and you wouldn't believe it. Union and."

" They're. Mean. Sheila yours alone this and."

" You've said that one of your face -- it. After -- to update the list absolutely unleashing -- you know he's not hearing you sing it."

" Don't go -- and I don't think that accurately where does this record with my parents to analyze it's that kind of thing. You don't really care about legacy until you can't ask them about it anymore. Until that's what you have left you know. That's the bittersweet quality to this whole thing but yes I do regret not asking him to update the list so much. But oddly enough my daughter Chelsea Crowell -- its first record is coming out next month. Called me and said where's my list."

" On isn't greed and what we do what you put I have been thinking about an non stop by and The -- heart. But then you have to make is dividing line do you include The Beatles do you include British invasion or is it just kind of you know American roots music that it's a whole other list. Include increased nineteen probably. Any other regrets about your relationship with Newton while that I didn't ask for advice tomorrow afternoon hours stuck burn. And is independent and is rebellious teen -- Johnny Cash. Is that something apple doesn't fall far right yeah I wish I had asked him for advice."

" Well I'm just realizing talking -- you. I'm reminded of how I once. So you're dead almost be killed by one of his. You're aren't on Larry and -- and in my ate my -- and brother in law Robert Duvall has gone ten and taken us to research Pentecostal preachers. When he was doing when he was doing well in the film and and and you're dead and his wife June. We're helping him do that and they cooked up a big -- of food. And then if you dead wanted to take a sad to see all these. Exotic animals and he had and is."

" Who attacked and I remember that. There and now he ended up and hard on one side engine and you know I know it was but it you know nearly killed by an -- everywhere I laughed about it and laughed at it that we like it in that moment. Elect he can dive on under the old pickup truck. East just just it was just kind of her and me. I mean and that's how I feel about the."

" Johnny Cash didn't make the list for me my dad in the U. You also see that you you -- she thanked him for the -- who do. You know I forgot I had until 2005. It's just lucky it stayed in my box of letters and -- And -- thinking now I am just a question where did he could -- his songs. He is very modest about -- there's only two of his on the list. You later the fifth and on the -- they're not on the CD that you know I really do wanna do fine tune. The move on inactive and."

" That's using cash her new CD's a list includes some songs from the list of 100 songs are dead solid the essential for her and now. Boy I I just think he'd be great for invasive to do some things for their kids -- thanks so much thank you and all now."

" Me me -- Turn. -- even paying her to me. So he. I hear Celine thing. Marines for me."

" this time from the list this is bury me under the weeping willow by eight. And Monday and here and now house stimulus money is reaching rural America that's Monday. Here and now."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. Ice CA Boston dot --"

" To Afghanistan now where the UN is increasing security after that attack this weakening guest house that killed five UN workers. The Taliban has threatened to disrupt next Saturday's runoff presidential election. UN officials say violence should be allowed to derail the vote but concerns about security and the political uncertainty after the fraudulent election in August. Taking a toll on Afghanistan especially on its economy the BBC's Charles Havilland reports on how some business people in -- are faring."

" This is the epicenter of Afghanistan's money exchanged through hundreds of men here. Each of them clutching -- of high -- foreign currency I can see Saudi Arabian money. Pakistani money I think. And all also afghanis the Afghan currency and all around meet our currency saying -- felt that I -- that is the static case beating up to a second and third level. All of them lined with the same money exchange shops and their branches of banks as well."

" And one of the shops Haji Mohammed Amin John Christy. And fix it tub and Pashtun man says green tea and could you on this with friends. But there are no customers in here. The commotion outside does in fact deceptive. Exchange businesses like -- GM means a suffering badly. Because of the incessant political uncertainty. Def product."

" But that day old one person will say one thing about the election someone else to say something else. Elections of cut our business by about 50%. -- customers a businessman. They get foreign currency for -- to pay for goods from all over the world. But now the businessman stop they would they not changing money so that's affected always."

" To just across town another breed of businessmen is also suffering election related news. And here we're giving people the smoke of the Barbeque. It's on the stage of -- music a font -- floodwater. And also placed -- Annan shows me how he's developed in the garden of Afghan fright -- continental. His successful fast food joint just 22 years old. He's also -- to VIP room on the floor above. But the second story is still an empty shell is planning a state of the art conference room that the most appointee says. International organizations stop pulling out because of political instability. Everybody. The local organizations international organization and even the Afghan government just concentrated on election. And they forgot what they have left in the back and that what did nothing to back is the economic circumstances in Afghanistan. Most of the organizations. And talents and international investors. Have stopped there investing in Afghanistan. Because everybody is nothing the future of kind of start it might be a better future and it might be something worse."

" That is not been solid news for Afghan businesses. A machine cuts straight sheets of paper that the message was neat printing press. Its owner -- Mohamed says he and others in the trade -- producing election related materials."

" For a business entity has its -- season -- an election. People aren't Laura good to have -- their self also the president or something -- They want to print both sides and -- had a participant. Far depositions. The indifference to our company. And discus you can get that -- a -- many much more money than any other seasons."

" But even for him trade since August has slumped. And to make matters worse the main road past his office recently closed down because of bomb attacks. This is where the couple river runs through the city center that just to -- in this trying season. The man heading -- along the muddy bank which is sometimes the president. Dozens of bicycles pumps that is thriving commerce all over the place -- shops still selling pots and pans clothing and copy its. There's still a malaise in Afghan business people like the fast food entrepreneur -- by Dele Annan yen for a rapid end to the current political uncertainty. -- only with security and stability says about a left and he expands his plans. Security we'll certainly enabled me. Doing further investments and Afghanistan. I'm not only constructing my third floor. I might have found the plans to establish on the franchise of my hotel. In a -- of the provinces and provide essar can stand a chance as self employment for the rest of Afghans in different provinces a lot of Afghans with -- that sentiment. But for the moment they like the business community must wait."

" The BBC's Charles Havilland reporting from -- You're listening to hearing."

" Democrats say they'll have the votes to pass the health care bill unveiled in the house yesterday. It includes a more moderate public option imposes a number of taxes and fees on insurance and medical device makers. Also includes a little discussed provision that's considered a big victory for Biotech companies. The provision would give Biotech a twelve year period of exclusivity when a new drug is created that's. Twelve years before a generic version can hit the market. And our next guest says the crafting of this provision as a case study in how interest groups are shaping the contours of health care reform. Tarrant County is senior political correspondent for time magazine she joins us from the monitors studios. In Washington DC -- welcome. Think it's great to be here Rodman and as I read your rating it's also an illustration of how powerful committee chairs like -- acts that are being beaten by lobbying he was against this provision we're talking about. He helped pass legislation back in 1984. To get generics until the markets sooner to lower the cost of drugs but that law doesn't apply to these new drugs. Bio logic wouldn't -- I know addicts are different from traditional pharmaceuticals because they are. Created through biological processes rather than with chemicals will receptionist covered the best known of these drugs made from living matter -- in chemical. That's right and they're extraordinarily effective that there also extraordinarily expensive they can cost tens of thousands of dollars a year in some cases they can cost as much as 200000. Dollars a year and Anderson and again for breast cancer the biologics now only comprise about 20% of drugs on the market that -- that's gonna leave infect all medicine is expected to Sunday. Beef from living matter rather than chemical. But as you said right now they're expensive and that's the company's argument for keeping exclusivity because -- they wanna. Get more money in so that they can create more miracle drugs took."

" Explain politics and who's backing biologics. Well it's a number of organizations of course the most obvious one is the Biotech industry and increasingly. The traditional pharmaceutical industry which is a acquiring a lot of these little Biotech companies. But you've also seen a number of advocacy groups for people with certain diseases come to their side. But what becomes hard to Trace in all of this is where the money is coming from because it -- often you'll see. A new advocacy group spring up and once you've looked into who their board of directors is and where their funding is coming from you find out that it's all coming from the pharmaceutical industry."

" Will it most of Biotech firms are also in states that have universities and research hospitals we have politicians speculates Senator Ted Kennedy who was very much in favor. Of a twelve year exclusivity period because of over Biotech work gets done here in the Boston area and many California. Politicians in favor as well."

" Yes the Biotech industry unlike the traditional pharmaceutical industry which you haven't basically a few states places like New Jersey North Carolina. This isn't industry that is growing up everywhere essentially that you have a teaching hospital in research hospital. It's the eastern powerful institutions and in congressmen and senator's home state. Their industries that are creating terrific jobs so they are very very powerful and congress -- an on the other side you have."

" People like blogger and breast cancer survivor Jane Hampshire at. She calls this new provision giving these companies exclusivity a death sentence -- my fellow breast cancer survivor she talks -- friends. Struggling to find ways to pay for cancer drug so and the other side their people who want generics out faster because they're cheaper. So powerful. Is the Biotech industry organization BI. With its CEO Jim Greenwood."

" A former Republican committee chair how how powerful our day. They are extraordinarily powerful they are essentially winning every battle in congress. The Obama administration wants to give these drugs no more than seven years of exclusivity. Henry Waxman a very powerful committee chairman in the house energy and commerce committee said -- five years the Federal Trade Commission. Has suggested that they get no period of exclusivity. They say that giving him too much of a window is gonna actually dampen their incentive to innovate. And yet every single vote they're winning this twelve year period of exclusivity Henry Waxman essentially gotten. Rolled by his own committee something that is very rare. In the end when they took the votes it was 401 against him and how much is BI and the Biotechnology Industry Organization spending. Yeah it is really hard to Trace all of this -- you take them Biotech industry. And the pharmaceutical industry and by a significant amount they are spending more than any other player right now on lobbying. Health care reform than any other industry players."

" Look like I -- one -- in your article in the first six months of this year alone drug and Biotech companies. And their trade association spent more than a 110 million dollars that's as you calculate 609000. Dollars a day to lobby lawmakers and I was thinking. If their biggest concern is that they want to have enough revenue to produce new drugs. With that could have been right there. Well and that doesn't even count the extraordinary amount they're giving in campaign contributions. This health care bill has been a growth industry for the influence industry here in Washington. But again they say that they need to have this exclusivity so that they can and be positioned to make more miracle drugs down the road and not have generic drugs undercutting. Their revenue I think everybody acknowledges this is a balance here between. Giving them incentives and making sure that consumers have therapies out there that they can afford. And really it is the question of where you strike that balance and woman's question before -- to go. The health care bill unveiled in the house yesterday it has what's being called public option late. And not as much of a public plan as some Democrats would have liked but at least it has one. Might that public option plan help people who don't have insurance and can't afford. These extraordinarily expensive biologic drugs might there be something there to offset. Did generics that aren't gonna come on market wealth there will be that it it will be a."

" Question of whether your insurance plan is actually willing to cover these drugs. Add to that one of the things that has not gotten as much attention in this house bill is. The vast expansion. And that is anticipated in the Medicaid program that's where people are gonna go -- this public corruption -- That's right because they picked it weaker version of the public option they didn't save as much money as they had anticipated they came up 85 billion dollar short. And the way that they dealt with with this was Qiyue. Take two and a half million people who might otherwise have been out -- buying their insurance on the exchanges and put them in the Medicaid program now there. This is it cheaper way to cover people but if you look at some of the problems for Medicaid program is already happening there aren't enough for providers even for the people who are already there so. The house has tried to help in some ways they're gonna expand community health center program they're gonna do some things about reimbursement of providers who do take Medicaid patients but I do you think there is still a concern here that you may be giving people coverage that they may not be able to go out and and find someone who. Karen Timothy senior political correspondent for time magazine Karen thanks so much thank you -- OK just ahead."

" Your letters. And -- done it just how to take their hands and posed to. And listen."

" Support for here and now comes in part from the school foundation supporting social entrepreneurs around the world. Uncommon heroes dedicated to the common good learn more at school dot org."

" Welcome -- here and now and we have a few minutes for your thoughts on the program. We heard a lot of your thoughts after yesterday's conversation with no school bell. Former writer for David Letterman who's now speaking out about how she felt his office affairs. Led to sexual favoritism and a hostile environment for -- car. Matthew Anderson was one of many who wrote to say he was impressed with mills speaking out. All kudos to her for that he writes however Matthew an African American and himself a writer. Joined others who objected when in calling for more female writers in late night -- this."

" And I'm not talking affirmative action patients lowered their standards. But that doesn't mean they can reach out and encourage."

" Here's a call from Maryland Richardson in Watertown Massachusetts."

" It was like this group could benefit from affirmative action has been -- limit. That he could get him. On how committed back in automatically equals warnings and did an audit committee he is good he is completed. And that came home."

" Well we call mills canal today in California she says she wished she spoken differently she only meant she didn't want legal quotas imposed or. Shows told a hires say someone's daughter she wants late night all -- shows to want to hire women. We also got a lot of response recently to our interview with journalist max Blumenthal. Whose book Republican Gomorrah inside the movement that shattered the party. Makes his case that the Christian right has arrested the GOP away from the center. Jim Thompson a Fort Mill South Carolina had this response."

" Someone who has been involved with Republican politics. Working to follow Reagan's 1976. Days in New Hampshire idea really enjoyed the program besides. -- one of those. Rated sold water. -- Republicans -- no -- support the congress public society."

" But Brenda Wolfe of Fairbanks Alaska resented the insinuation that people say in the tea party protests. -- overly influenced by the Christian right here right. I'm willing to give max Blumenthal the benefit of the doubt that there is actually some validity to be found in his vitriolic tirade. Against some people who've been influential Christian leaders. For people can be influenced by an adopt certain communication techniques from them without accepting any part of their message. I'm not a Protestant and do not pay particular attention to James Dobson Pat Robertson. But you also wanna try an -- say chuck Colson since he was also really hammered by Blumenthal. Come to think of it who wasn't. Well Brendan just so you know we do have a standing invitation into James Dobson as well as one to chuck Colson stay tuned. As always good to hear your thoughts on anything on the program go to here and now dot -- and just click on contact us. Well finally we media on this eve of all hollows eve with a mystery story."

" Run for. Buy an iPod that we can create. All of our many equating the curious bottom of a cop. I might not admitting that things suddenly there came that happy. Has found someone gently wrapping. Wrapping it might chamber door."

" Vincent Price reading from Edgar -- the raven note to myself -- agreed that tomorrow night. All year there's been a slew of events to commemorate the 200 anniversary of -- birth here in Boston. But as death 160 years ago this month in Baltimore Merrill and there are number theories about just how Pope met his untimely and they tomato producer of the memory palace has this tale of pose strange and tragic last day east."

" You got on a wrong turn. He was headed to New York from Philadelphia about want to Baltimore it's. We can't be sure how -- happen. We can't be sure about a lot of things that happen to aground between September 27 race trainer arrived. In October 7 1949 the guy something. The Washington College hospital. We don't know what killed. People have spent a 160 years sifting through the clues trying to figure out. Like -- detective trying to solve those murders in the room more spoiler alert it was -- But even if they've got -- Bosnia and ran whatever sort of CSI history stuff in view these days. Or the result might come back definitively cholera -- brain lesions more alcohol poisoning or even a rabies. All which people suggest it. Now while that might explain definitively why he died. We won't know what killed -- Or don't know that's. Always going to be America's --"

" Later in. His first wife Virginia had died two years earlier -- Oregon -- Virginia was the love of his life she was his first -- thirteen days 27 ordinary. It seems that one day in 1842 she was playing the piano -- Tartikoff. If you see just about any movies in the nineteenth century you know means. And we know that -- consumption or worse. So did her husband's already problematic drinking. We also know that after Virginia died. -- met a poet from Providence. And promised her he'd stop -- with -- bring -- the -- to marry. She's dead but he could. Series here is calling on -- count that's been here."

" She was -- woman -- primary."

" Uses before he got an engine. We know that always in rough shape when Iraqi Baltimore whether it was from cholera or rabies or anything else I was instruction. But he probably wouldn't just. Something -- Something made him wind up delirious in Baghdad and near death stretched out I don't wooden plank anti saloon on Guam Bart's wearing another man's powers. Something made him shiver and hallucinating. And slipped in and out of a coma and shout out and flailing actually had to be strapped into -- hostile."

" And it was probably local -- CE. OSCON elections. And that saloon was a polling place in the city's fourth ward. And the -- party needed a big turnout. And the -- toward wigs had ways of getting him turnout. It seems that Edgar -- Spent his last -- moral his last day before he was taken to hospital it. It seems that the man who wrote the ravens and inability. And telltale heart. Had been kidnapped by it's they would do this. These thugs it's really the only works. And kidnap people just walking out. In the name dragged him from -- polling place forcing them to vote over and over. Sometimes they're switched their clothes that they could go another -- same place and to ensure their compliance to get them drunk or high and -- In -- beat him. And they keep them locked up and small rooms until they had to got a cannon. The call practice scooping because they'd be cooped up until it's time Jack -- back out. So it seems that the man who invented the detective story the man who gives the blueprint that you'll have everything from Sherlock Holmes Agatha Christie to pledge to the wire speaking out terrible things happen. Seems that the first American writer to try and make his living my right in the 24 boxing got during the Reagan was not even back in the forties. The first American to make his living by right. Not my family money or professors or reference. It seems that Edgar -- Spent his last count. Being kidnapped. And driver and smacked around and dragged half conscious of default marked kind of basic or. Be stripped of his close. And put in another man's for being dumped on delirious confused. And dying some Martin yeah."

" Yeah. It's. Okay."

" Okay."

" Okay."

" Hey. Okay."

" Okay."

" Okay. And we. And I."

" Okay. Yeah."

" I had. Yeah."