Title: Skeptics Guide #223 - Oct 28 2009

" You're listening to the skeptics guide to did you give us your escape. -- reality."

" Hello and welcome to the skeptics guide to the universe. Today is Wednesday October 28 2009 at this is your host Steven Novella. Joining me this week are about to develop and everybody Jane Novella to drive. And seven Bernstein. The mentally and it is. Friends. Six odd sound. After you -- IBM added that the -- guys -- elderly ladies. At the end to end it doesn't realize that it's child now -- what often bizarre show actually come out on -- Not all that you're right though he's got to take advantage that when you can tell you usually I I do some to have a monster scream on Halloween. And summaries they had to do general -- Brock or is admiral Akbar admiral. IPod combined. It's Halloween is your month tell us what's up."

" leaving a way. In my basement writing in my basement looking pretty -- and it I must admit it looks pretty awesome might win with a whole pirate theme again. With some upgrades and -- spirit it's there's -- really sweet."

" Would you go and -- as -- don't -- taken a daughter trick or treating of course what you can work custom -- and I don't think so. You know I was planning and take my daughter's around the neighborhood and extorting candy from -- by threatening properties -- and -- that's a good idea and a claw yeah okay that's that's how Halloween erosion noted."

" literally the parents were driving the kids not to I don't to do when he mischief. Because it cause mischief back then. Was really big undergoing back -- I don't know 6070. Years or so kids who really destructive is that cool against running around. Doing all sorts of damage. Mr. Knight was October 30. And the parents it's kind of bandits again -- in -- that's you know let's skip and candy and take you know don't do when he cannot give -- candy and then just the totally blossomed from Nat."

" Well I didn't even know that surprising never read that torture retreat country and that's where he -- an expert trick or treating comes from all the other stuff came money thanks so what would that guy do like opened his front darts -- staircase targeting candidate senator. The fact that bullets that doesn't love Halloween related memo to actually quite -- the busy week. I'm gonna start talking about some swine flu strikes. Yeah well it's the season you know it's -- in the season for the flu and this year swine flu as everybody you know up in arms panic and wondering what do you and so forth with H1N1 strain out there and there's no -- of people trying to take advantage. Of the situation. By trying to pull things like offering. You know fake cures fake remedies for -- prevention. Medicine's mostly on pretty much on the Internet and there's been a company that's been kind of tracking needs. Mark monitors the name of the company and they are company that specializes in. Protection against things such as. Brand jacking tan you know abuses of products and so forth they -- kind of to a whole range of protection services. And amongst the things they do is date are tracking. How many bogus claims there are for swine flu cures that are happening at pharmacies on Internet. They say that of the 3000 online pharmacies that are currently offering slow swine flu cures. Only four have been certified by the national association boards of pharmacy as being legitimate. I'm shocked that -- take medicines -- Mohammed thousands of I'm on average these sites are pulling in 42000. Visitors. Per site per day. Intraday -- daily visitors 42000. In an estimated eleven billion dollars annual revenue via."

" If you -- about it that eleven billion dollars is spent on total nonsense nobody benefits whatsoever. You know at best. Some people might you know psychologically feel better but they're actually isn't a benefit that's eleven billion dollars of money can be spent so many different way as numbers are four billion dollars from just 2007. Ten point seven to an almost eleven billion dollars this year and it's because of the of the swine flu itself you know how much. France and you know politically speaking it's been it's been in discussion and pretty much all circles political. Health wise and everywhere this is -- ripe time for -- for these scam artists. To be out there picking off people and taking full advantage of the situation 49% of these fake pharmacies are based in China by the way."

" The -- something that really makes feel comfortable about. Thinking about the idea is taking a medication for jury whatever some type of thing I'm gonna eat put my body that's made in China. Well after all lead you know lead. Scandals and everything there is actually serious quality control concerns at the moment really they told the -- Chinese have the Chinese version of the FDA about the yet that they killed multiple people that we have currents. They say they're gonna crack down at the bottom line is that -- as a ticket and quite ready yet trust products and trying to. But this is just also the tip of the iceberg when there's so much misinformation about H1N1 hour or so called swine flu and the vaccine and it's it's it's a mountain of misinformation. Just washing over the Internet. A few sites trying to. Properly inform the public. About the risks and and then strategies that that are likely to be hopeful. You know we're trying to promote the vaccine which should at least mitigate the -- pandemic. But I think they've really successfully penetrated the average person right I hear from you just like your neighbors and cut and friends in whatever. That are really concerned about the vaccine. Not the usually conspiracy nuts or anti vaccine loans but just your average every persons and thinks now there's something. To be scared about about the vaccine but it's all BS its oldest completely made up. Nonsense by the anti vaccination that you know unfortunately. They've been very successful in spreading it."

" So Steve. What do you think we could do as a as the skeptical community -- does it just a matter of us talking to our friends neighbors and colleagues in. And try to help them understand better err I mean or until pretty helpless. I think you're in for."

" Nation is our primary tool in the just plugging away on podcasts and blogs and certainly you know social circles. Trying to point to point directions in the direction of the correct information to counter all the misinformation out there. It's like easier to spread fear than information unfortunately. Let's go to the next news -- a quick update we discussed a few weeks ago. -- ex general -- show in New York that to uphold the Clark had pets to hold the Clark is -- was a cancer quack. Wrote the book to cure for all cancer and followed up with the cure for all disease. She's was what are these -- unification theory of quackery people who -- one cause of everything and of course you know her fake treatment could treat her fake cause of everything that she could claim to Carol these. And in in her case her fake cause with the liver fluke regular flu causes all cancer. New information came to light that called the Clark the cancer quite extraordinary died of cancer cancer. Ironies cents a that's about as ironic as they can get not that much of a coincidence whose cancer is the second biggest killer. And -- something here. Heart attack cancer stroked a new one of those three chances are. And -- lead to an old age so. Not surprising her death certificate indicates that she had multiple myeloma which is blood cancer. And the primary cause of death were in the emea and hyper calcium you have put both of which can be caused by multiple myeloma. Now her acolytes. Are claiming that the reason she couldn't cure herself as a by the time. The diagnosis was discovered she was too weak to operate the machinery to care so. That's that's that's -- thing. Yeah -- he had never she'd ever trained anybody to use."

" And now now just got rich off the books about things like -- Sadly. No -- know what's gonna follow up in learned a lesson from this."

" Now you're right -- pointed out in the skeptical community but the bottom line is penalty this is gonna have any reverberating effects. Imus it to her followers are already rationalizing in a way. I don't think the next time you know I -- request comes around it's not the new equipment that all the Clark thought she could care cancer she died of cancer. People who are pursuing these fake cancer treatments. Are ours they're probably because they are following. Their emotions about their reason in the first place. So. I doubt this information is gonna have any impact on the cancer quackery industry. Unfortunately."

" It's such a BS story that you said Steve you know on her website said that she couldn't even operators secret meter. Yeah -- teacher herself from it really. Okay -- secretive as. So have you guys seen this video that's going around the skeptical Blogosphere. About the homey yeah pass. Who explains the physics of army out of me. Oh my god but Harrison fifth sixth in Armenia and it was a painful video I stopped after the first minute at a gathered myself. And then plowed through the other -- six minutes it was from and they got to the -- could even look at her Talking Heads had to close my eyes just listen I was that. So she claims all the maps on the mass in the universe can be condensed the size of a born Dutch is that true about."

" I bet I'd never heard that but it it's it seems okay because I mean it started with it. A single day and write a singularity Big Bang that's so yet but it's Tripoli that's. Trip really an important so what -- it it's her take on that concept that is what to all messed up therefore mass is. On him is unimportant so it's a did you watch the whole thing -- a."

" My god yes. I inflicted upon myself this is one of the most scientifically illiterate rants I've ever heard. Seriously this this -- his area where its nuclear stupidity Steve you've been doing this a long time that's a big statement overall you're decades skepticism. Nellie type it believe me this it is if I try to parity. Something like this camp it has figured it I couldn't I couldn't. Create something as stupid as this if I tried."

" The PP PP. Do you that he'd give 11 quick example of what is that benefit but I I in my blog on -- basement is text wrote a summary. Of what her she said it was read that are okay that's -- these it is in a nutshell this is her point Einstein taught us that an."

" G equals matter and light but because matter can be condensed down to very small space if you remove all the empty space between elementary particles. We can mostly ignored matter therefore energy is light and we all are made of energy not matter or at least so little matter you can ignore. Stephen Hawking who she frequently. And who she consistently. -- named talking a good thing about with string theory which he didn't. Which tells us that all matter. Which we can ignore by the way he's made a vibrating strings therefore we are made of vibrating energy all diseases are there for caused by unhealthy by operational states that all disease. And be treated by returning the body to a previous healthy by operational state. This can be done with home up the team which extracts of bi racial energy out of stuff and places in a small held it can be used at any time. Gobbled up there and tuna thing as -- I had and I made a coherent -- that was me out in what she said at least semi coherent. If you opted a level that that's in a nutshell that's the whole video and."

" Nacho right there that's that's gobbledygook clap trap and anything else change and he couldn't come up to discuss that. Arms that someone tell you ominously do exactly how home office he worked in and that's what she comes up with. We could again I Eagles MC squared the weakened cross out the end because matter doesn't is really important crops up all -- I have is a product sharply with a content that does just because you could conceivably condensed mattered to it. -- counter intuitively small volume she thinks that -- you can. You could almost just kind of cross it out of that equation and airport energy equal slate and you choose to realize that. The -- right. But but that's a lot of we have photo receptors and our eyes speak yes. It's -- it's -- remember what she's talking much street dairy cheese she equates stream theory with human ears like they were violin streaks yes that what's. -- It does definitely she. Gleaned some physics jargon from somewhere yeah I understand a single word to achieve her heard. And then reconstituted. As this -- babble nonsense. And you could tell by her delivery to -- her delivery alone. -- you it was not policy was not smooth at all you could televise this kind of and the barest edge of even being being able to -- it readily understand it --"

" Actually she was totally out of her depth. Did other story to this is that this woman who did this video Charlene Werner is any behavioral locked -- Tom interest. Which is any type of quackery all unto itself. It's like to chiropractic. Of I notice -- and if you think about it there acknowledges. No. Its size is its its own brand of us is a really has actually been flying under the radar and -- the cracking her battle lines kept records circles I think because it's just now. Kind of small and shrinking you know to put this without you 10200 years old. It's like castle like home up the a lot of ways it has its own. So the sub culture of belief. They a lot of weird stuff. The believing things like it's in tonic photo therapy which if you like dual literature search on that you come up with exactly zero publications. -- It's all this -- life can cure everything. And do we could do exercises to correct all these imaginary problems with your vision that they're forward than equal cure whatever failure headaches here -- improve your sports performance or whatever. It really is -- have been though it's just another pseudo profession subculture of nonsense. Pretty much rejected by legitimate optometry -- out tomorrow. And from what I hear is is it small and shrinking minority by. Yeah these things never go away entirely there's just on the French so she's a crack to begin with. The fact he also per -- prescribed homey -- that's easier for no surprise. On it and hurry you know brain dead scientifically illiterate -- hand waving justification for home apathy is just about as good as the home only -- yet that's the other thing. That's -- quit picking on somebody who's who is giving a bizarre. Interpretation of homeopathy. She she was fumbling their clumsy -- it if you strip it down that's basically what home if parents think there's the that they prepare -- tactically is what's curing people you know it's just as much magical thinking is any of the credit that she sent."

" It what's ironic about that. Is -- she's naming Einstein. And hawking and you know and talking about these people are going most of it. Hawking is yeah and I say Iran I don't know notice she's gonna she's of hawking -- Stephen Hawking particular zone blocking. I -- so out. -- so anyway so she's talking about and I hate to put his site in these terms but it struck about our site is right here. Like with some type of respect that in a respectful manner. Not only did she not understand what they say. Just trying to throw out names that beat the groups in the audience might. -- have heard before you -- older Feinstein right is it has anything to do put your -- you'll I would hate to his right. And I. An -- Einstein yeah. Vibrations yeah yeah -- and I think she she attached Stephen Hawking to string theory because it's a name they might recognize even though we have nothing to do a string theory. I heard that guy he's the guy in the science wheelchair guy here who -- BI says it's because other companies that. Stop talking about news editor of the and it's -- at at an ever you ignorant slut. Or is the and I took -- I would love to see you in a room with that wanted to let it."

" I -- should be impervious to any actual science or logic. Yes absolutely. Did the whole point of this is just to embarrass. The quackery that nonsense that is hoping opposite each tried it to penetrate debt to the public a little bit. They realize yet this is really something very stupid that needs to be ridiculed. Not taken seriously."

" that's one of the main goals that they equipped it was. Wacky crap like combing apathy is separated as at six -- at the far end of the spectrum so far that we did. The -- you know the public's reaction should be. Just to laugh whenever they hear about it like oh my god -- that's so ridiculous that they're like knee jerk reaction to it as it should be as it absolutely should be. Well you're gonna tell us about Scientology's latest -- Iranians currently. -- first."

" Okay. The should we should match coach pat. Cash. "

" Hello does good that's actually pretty good as good."

" It's."

" It's bad weeks her -- Scientology's guys a couple of really really good news items and that's a good week everybody else can happen. So what happened was. There there were two leading branches of the church of Scientology's. In France and they were sentenced to pay -- in excess of 600000 euros after being found guilty in this but the court. Court term was Friday in an organized -- That was Paris yes and the judge -- judge did allow them to continue their activities at the church in France you know they were found guilty. And."

" They estimate there's about 45000 members in France in the church so that the quick 12 on this one is that there there -- four officials at the church. They are received suspended prison sentences between eighteen months to years. And they they were also find. The judge said that the four had avoided. Jail because the church was showing an effort in changing their ways. But they do expect an appeals. So the case is based on two former former female members alleging that they were pressured into paying large sums of money and we've suffered minor. To the church after joining in the nineties. They also said that the members of the church were were harassing them forcing him to buy eight. A bunch of different products at the church sells like vitamins and things like that. It I thought it it was you know it's always weird to hear that the church of Scientology's selling like you know. Like health items like you don't vitamins and things there are also pressuring. The women to us sign up for quote unquote purification courses. That cost thousands the euros and one even said that she was advised by a financial adviser from the church to take out large loan to finance all of her activities within with in the church -- and that is complete and total manipulation. The French prosecutor requested that the church be dissolved in France. And wanted to find them four million euros. But the courts no longer have the power to to dissolve organizations that are found guilty of fraud Agassi used to but they can't do it anymore. And of course the church denies all wrongdoing and then they want to you know reopen a case to clear their name and everything. I've visited the other thing that happened to you guys who Paul Haggis says -- this is for the -- as soon enough fire and I. To those and don't know he's an Oscar winning writer director Andy did movies I crash Million Dollar Baby the last two bond flicks."

" I actually think you I've really like his films in directive -- he directed. Most of them I think but he was co writer in I think the the conflicts. So he left the church of Scientology's. Last week after 35 years why now. In the two -- that he had with the church. Where that I use very upset that the church psychology was backing proposition eight in California which is a ban on gay marriage. That's who did it that's a finally got to that end and this next thing that the next thing that happened was his he and his wife Deborah read -- Were ordered to break off contact. With his wife's parents because his wife is -- Paris left the church. So the church drummed up some fake accusations you know they have a lot of their own lingo and -- end you know. Laws that people could break inside the church their finger basically these people left the church the church got pissed off and then told. Haggis and his wife can't associate with them anymore. And you know the funny spin to that was that the parents actually introduced the couple to the church. -- Haggis never followed to the -- order for them to do that. And the two of them together tipped him over the edge in what he did actually do which I recommend everyone read was he wrote a letter to this one of the people in the church. Who was making a lot of promises to him about. About how the church is actually you know enough apart of agreeing with the the ban on gay marriage in the guy made him a bunch of promises like an arm outraged by all this and -- get to the bottom of it it turns out that the guy was. -- post sale lying to Haggis -- got this afternoon he left the church."

" That to have legs because he does Scientology's. -- blowers and a lot of Hollywood types as their base really and that's the gay bashing stock at a flywheel on and on Hollywood culture in a really stick to them -- Every I don't understand why they -- to have a problem with the same sex marriage I don't know I ever. I don't remember reading anything -- news 75 million years ago. -- saying don't do that this over on didn't like gay people. Who Erica -- There's one other tiny bit of psychology news. Mr. -- November 5 it's. In November 5 is Guy Fawkes day. Well today and a little bird told me that says there may be some organized anonymous protests on November if so if anyone wants to learn more about these you can look for a anonymous your local on this website. There's also apparently YouTube video which we will provide the link for -- show notes. Nod nod wink wink right but it just to be clear all of us individually in the skeptics guide we do not endorsing any kind of violence. And we only support completely nonviolent forms of protest. Just -- case it was an extra my knowledge is anonymous members. Never engages in violence so there's one exception if you find Sylvia -- in the dark you can puncher but only if you're an astronaut you've into the half. Have. Is well more bit of news this one is about Suzanne Somers -- I'm kind -- a big who's. The latest book is making their parents called knockout interviews with doctors who are curing cancer and how to prevent getting it in the first place -- hope that -- all of the Clark is a potentially."

" I do know that Nicholas Gonzales is in the book. We've reported on Nicholas Gonzales is a regiment recently which use for pancreatic cancer. Which was worse than no treatment at all this happened then no treatment at all. There's actually so the DV comparison was between the Gonzales treatments and chemotherapy to -- chemotherapy. Survival I think average about seventeen months and on the Gonzales regiment was four months which is. At best it's the it's an equal to not being treated me in fact even be a little bit worse than not being treated well. I'm and its horrific regiment to go to coffee -- and uncles and it ridiculous. So that's one of the African doctors that Suzanne Somers is now promoting. In in her book in making the -- just pushing cancer quackery is using whatever fleeting defeating celebrity she has. To kill people basically. Or act actually has a very interesting report. About some of the content of the book. That I wanted to discuss. He had -- candidates -- rolling to his blog entry and goes into a lot of pizza but. The interesting thing is that in the book she tells a story about a her recent whole body cancer scare. And here's the skinny she just was not feeling well it really definitely -- went to the hospital. And -- had a cat scanned. A form of -- Four X I suppose and on that apparently was some lesion. And it looked suspicious for cancer now. Which he says is like the doctors and caring only swaggering into the room that you got control of your body and that's -- her report of how things went there. Seems very implausible. He even if it is literally true what that means is that she had a jerk doctor right that's like and the worst case scenario. However I never believe patient reports of what how other doctors behavior what they said this has never act. There's just only degrees of inaccuracy really. People are not accurate historians and any kind of emotional encounter there's going to be new information lost cause it's also challenging and difficult to convey. You often complex medical information accurately off that we. You make some assumptions about how were saying things. Like the fact that he and his blog post or act gives the example who is a cancer search and where he told the patient. You don't need chemotherapy. Patient interpret that as mean as meaning your case is hopelessly dated -- point in using chemotherapy. Which of course is exactly the opposite of what he meant was that you're not bad enough to warrant needing chemotherapy so. This is an anecdotal example of just how how easy it is to instantly be really significantly misunderstood right -- patient."

" It real quick is it unethical to to an audio recording of patient doctor conversations. Wouldn't that be a good thing to do so you could actually go back in and less emotional state or something and really hear how it how it went down in a to have that on -- it's."

" It's not practical I would imagine for hip which is the in this country it's the the rules regarding patient confidentiality. Supposed to patients can deduct for their own purposes of the patient asking because their record this conversation I think. Once or twice a patient is actually done. To me it's fine if they wanna record for their own preference later that's fun. We also we always highly recommend -- family members or present the more the better and actually studies which show that. The more people we're president of -- the more information collectively they will retain. Other patient by themselves when to start which are thrown around the C word and everything you say after that's just while while while while want you know they're just not processing information. You can't count on them really understand it from that point forward they're just in a fog. I'm from from what you just told them so in any case. What -- innocent -- communications occur I suspect a more plausible scenario in the case of Suzanne Somers getting back to her is that they said. That you have suspicious lesions. On this on this -- and we have to do further evaluation. They might have mentioned that won the possibilities is that this could be cancer -- suspicious foreign and we have to give further work up. She is now telling the story that they told her she had cancer which again. Just you know we are. As a professional -- the standard as you never throw around the -- until -- proven best case right. As she also was claiming that they were pushing chemotherapy -- that's even more implausible to the white guys no one colleges would recommend chemotherapy -- tissue diagnosis. That's just incredibly implausible now we're not talking about a position is it -- But but physicians who are grossly incompetent. If if if -- you take her story at -- out. But again it just doesn't smell like a plausible scenario. She would do is -- now retelling the story as an angry very diluted misinformed patient right. The story gets a little bit better and as a -- then eventually they do further work up and because the lesions were very disseminated they were in various parts -- body. And they were suspicious they did do a biopsy. And the biopsy turned out to show that she had a fungal infection. -- a specific fungal infection called. -- This is. One of the things that we always think about -- it's it's it's uncommon not necessarily rare we see it you know these kind of fungal infections this particular fungal infection that was usually. A mild infection not a disseminated severe infection like which he bad. You usually you'll only see a severe or disseminated fungal infection like this in somebody who is sick from some chronic illness war who is. -- you know suppressed. So then she tells the story that again trying to meet the doctors seem like it -- it he comes in and says. Why didn't you tell me you were taking steroids. And her response to that basically was. And this doctor -- nobody was talking about didn't know about bio identical hormone therapy which is her thing -- bio identical hormones. So guess what. Suzanne Somers was giving herself. Steroid hormones court -- steroids. Had no concept of what these things weren't thought that because they were quote -- bio identical which is nonsense. That they were their form magically safe. She seems essentially suppressing her own immune system with -- steroids and as a result of that you -- disseminated fungal infection. -- like an idea you can't quite blame the physicians from missing it initially. Because it is not the kind of thing you would think about in somebody who's healthy and out of you don't compromise she didn't tell the -- think they discovered it when they were doing -- Working her drop the issue apparently right fielder."

" So she basically puts the the -- on this story that the doctors lied to her screwed up his diagnosis. Mishandled her whole case. But but the reality is that she went to the doctor which you probably was very ashamed. To even go -- on making that assumption but does from everything I've read about her -- she's -- the kind of person that believes in medicine. She doesn't it doctor he saves your life yeah without it day to life right."

" And he's trashing him for a the issue was killed herself by taking cork -- rockets -- that's. -- unbelievable. It is unbelievable. I believe it I feel sorry for her physicians have to deal with that. I soltys a -- you gotta do what you -- you don't treat patients despite themselves. But it's the arrogance and ignorance right it's she doesn't know what she's talking about. But she's arrogant enough to think that she knows better than the medical community. -- not just an individual doctor immediate and cracker -- Or sub standard but basically. Doctors in general. That's the arrogant part and you know if you made herself."

" Very sick as a consequence of them blamed her doctors for. -- That you get. A total jackass like Suzanne Somers get not only gets on the news but gets spread her pseudoscience. Yes. And her totally totally contrived story you know right -- what's wrong but it used to be pretty once they understand that. Yeah that's an abuse of celebrity in my opinion you know things people should listener. You don't listen to some has been actress. With half fake news pseudo scientific ideas you know give me a pimple faced geek doctor with a weird voice over a good looking person that doesn't know she it. --"

" Right. Let's go under a couple of questions and emails for -- comes from Adam Warren in Bristol UK and animal rights. The universe is about fourteen billion year results and how come the observable universe is larger than 28 billion light years. As a follow up how is it possible for any star or galaxy or whatever to be more than fourteen billion light years apart. Thanks for putting together such a great show."

" is this deceptively EI had to deceptive question because it's it's what you when you start researching this. In it wow this is more complicated -- top -- bottom line you could bottom line pretty easily the bottom line is that the observer we university is bigger in my -- and it's aging years because the expansion of the universe. That's a reason right there this is a flight universe and there was no expansion. Like it is like. It's expanding. Then they knew would be right yeah matter itself. Cannot move through space and -- the speed of light. But space can expand at greater than the speed of light then there's no. Limitation on that. That's what the crux of the issue right there is and deep the other thing that that you've really got to cut got to understand and I'm still kind of grappling waited. Is that defining distance in an expanding universe is very difficult you just can't say how far away something is until it incredibly ambiguous question. But you it's easy not to realize that for example if you wanna know where things were when they admitted that light waves. That you get one answer that's called the angular diameter distance but if you wanna know where everything is now. That's another answer and that's called the cold moving radio distance. And the last one. If you wanna know how long ago the light was emitted by not -- that's yet another answer and that's called the light travel -- look back -- so you it's you know it's. It's can be more complicated and you fake."

" I imagine two objects in the universe. In one emits light. Towards the other. And then can you it is expanding. A wave from. The other object that will eventually receive the light and the space that the light is travelling through is also expanding. Right getting it's getting redder and redder -- can yeah all of those factors and before you to decide how far away the thing is. As you say there's dad did that has different specific operational meanings but no matter how far the source is a way at any of these times. -- one thing is true that. The lite is as old -- as it has traveled through space writes if it has traveled. For our. Fourteen billion light years that might just fourteen -- That's the Arafat would -- even had fourteen billion years ago so. You could think about it in from one respect. We can only look back fourteen billions and that's how old the university just hasn't been time for light to -- yes yes and it's -- the emitted. Longer ago or further away than that but that's a good point. Mean there is no longer ago and that's -- this -- ways we could see it was fourteen billion light years. Because of the time factor but but as you say. That galaxy that we're looking at its fourteen billion. That the -- took fourteen billion years to get to a rare is that galaxy now right right as you well beyond what we would US -- question. And that gets to equation how big is the observable universe right now."

" I think now I think and presently. That they accepted it figures about 48 billion light years. Is is is it that is the size of the it certainly uterus then. They got to distinguish what's different keen observer -- universe in -- we universe and managed to -- it's all kind of wacky. But observable observable universe basically. In in theory how far away some big key can be and and to have you still see it even you know even if you know even -- the -- didn't get here yet could you see if there was are far away. On and now obedience or we universe farther away than that and I believe that if it's much if it's any further away than that. And this space is spinning so fast. Festival of speed -- essentially that the light would -- never get here and you can't you can't even in in theory ever see that -- could we will never get here."

" Bob I found some sites and Tommy he did to that it still were quoting the 28 billion light years across figure just essentially doubling. The age of the universe that's definitely wrong for the reason that that we just described. But he can still see yeah you run across that figure in in sites that. Our -- reference sites you're talking about astronomy you know yeah I think a lot of this information is is changing it's changing fast. A so you what busily doing you know Bob and I as. You know reasonably scientifically literate amateurs are trying to figure out what the right answer is and it's hard. Because it doesn't seem there's a lot of different conflicting pieces of information it's I think it's a moving target let's asset doctor Warner. It's like yeah she might she's she was throwing around names in terms and must know which is time. Well actually we noticed that doctor Pamela -- was on line and so we decided to. Scraper into the conversation and she was good enough to obliges. With a little bit of last minute astronomy consultation. Pamela -- is the host of the popular astronomy podcast. Astronomy test is also the author of the star Strider S economy blog. It is involved with the 365 days of astronomy daily podcast honoring the year of astronomy at 2009. So we Skype and Pamela Anderson what's yet sank."

" Absolutely we need your help okay. We don't know what the hell we're talking about. That we I know a little up right I I had -- for time to reconstruct migraine like you talk about it is hard top. Yeah that we had a question about the size of the universe that we were chatting about it and the observable universe right beside their practices we that we don't know what the size of the -- reverses the -- can now yes. What we have we've had ranges from forty. Billion light years wall plugs port 2802 point 128250. So we know 28 is wrong Leo is bigger than when he that he had assuming Genesis. Did the size of how far away the light had to travel to get what's his visit underestimate those. RD stock that we are currently able to see. We put a whole lot closer when he gave off a light. Right right now about 47 billion. Billion light years away. So is that a radius yeah focus at the and what you said about you see right into Europe but the fact about the may -- misread at but the 46. Billion a year in number was it was a diameter. Yeah okay he had no no yeah you're right okay okay the entity is certainly universe is now located about 46 point five billion light years away yeah. Okay so it's about 92. Billion light years in diameter."

" Yeah and it actually too much started to take a little over 45 a little over ninety. Because we're still working to Jack. A real understanding how the acceleration relievers and changing with I mean analyze that this can be answered with a Herschel. The -- but not too long ago they were -- the recording a figure of a 156. Billion light years diameter and as a federal -- saw the universe with a lot older. Back in 2002. We -- 2003 rather we completely revised five of the universe using data from the look it's not. My great unpopular trip there at the problem and then. Although we have been home -- late ninety's. Where when we tried to ethnic age of the universe spike. Finding the older stars in the gaming -- showed that the universe is older than ours it contained. We got a fairly large number we thought the popular concert where much and maybe even seventeen billion years old. And we looked around -- at -- How fast that the universe expanding and we got a valued somewhere depending -- he talks here between 169 neat. And random numbers backward and we ended up with all sorts of different aid we ended up with all sorts of different sides of the universe. And Elaine Elaine. We did he do look at in my career and I thought to be proud of which looked at the continent likely background and -- our -- I know how big the universe there's. Combined with looking. The expansion universe. We had type planning it for now there's a pair of jeans in 1998 that we're able. -- Measured the acceleration of the universe is change -- grade and expansion of the universe let's figure out that the universe was expanding. Slower in the lives right now and by combining. Two different result. We get two different. Regions are. The very able to determine how the universe changes over time -- And the truth lies at the black mark in the case the truth lies that the centered two overlapping parallels is for those -- her statistical -- And based on that and other techniques we now now you versus thirteen point seven plus one point two billion years old. We know the abolition of the expansion made every time her at least. The nearby universe. And -- able to work backwards and figure out on the diameter of heart and in the universe that we can eat. Is older ninety. Billion. -- Here is a constant rate of acceleration that that the faster expanding universe as time goes. I'm so the rate of expansion -- increasing over time. And what we go now it is into the content acceleration like you can track a drop -- rock opera club it's one that's going. About ten -- packet further with each packet now. Broccoli after the first packing it in ten -- abruptly after the fact back in the current one meters and acting. That's constant acceleration. There -- hand. That maybe the greatest expansion. Is not on the accelerating part exploration. Well is also changing. But we're still working to get better understanding that. And we need to get better at -- far in the end and -- the part numbers we hadn't seen. Measuring very precise supernova. And wanna. How fast and there are receding from within his power. And it is there any way at all at this point in time to -- How big the total universe it's even beyond that visibly. Well defensive where it starts to get very tricky but is. Our best guess is that we probably. Only -- per cent of the visible universe. And that but I totally -- of the total universe so we started leaking about 4% of the stock in the W. And then got -- universe itself dependent on you read it. Only if -- percent of -- higher do you need for and the way we get that -- is. As we look around. The looked for places where. If you do that these potentially iron four dimensional there. That means that I took off and any one direction what are not a compact I got here on the earth biking down. Over the -- and yet act Illinois act can go around through China to get back to noise is locked in different ways I can put. And circle around here won't. And come back when I started what possible come up with a similar type the -- important functional space except he can't visualize tickets were you know. Now Dan looked around and look for places where we -- light taking -- how -- of the universe and moms. We don't see the reflection. -- with the on how big the universe kidney. So rethinking. It the universal finite and we don't even know either university finite -- Alina fund needs. I'm betting you there's is finite and -- we only get small part of it. And there have been new -- mission can help them understand even batter. And what pardon -- is that we're able to not Herschel Hardin played machines going to help you with better understand. What partisan. Of me."

" Cool so if we might have a figure at some point not just a it's a lot bigger than what we -- city. So there are some order of magnitude size of its -- universe do you we will only be able to put battered and battered lower limits on."

" Students -- we hit these."

" And the problem as. There's a certain observable -- and once we hit that land that we're stocky university bigger no limit that. The combination of technology in the fact that. Every second never expand this stuff while not the answer -- yes it we're never gonna be able satan. We can't recover that information when it's gone enthusiasm on."

" It's going to be very lonely in a deep future when he gets real bad yeah and dark and -- We had dark cold than. -- To Steve that the local groups super massive. Galaxy that whenever -- center and when we mergers and prominent and the other counties in the local group that says."

" our local group at least of the dignity to follow in the local paper on. We will have a few more friends. Okay I feel better -- Just aren't all going to be winking out the entire universe is gonna be eliminated. At least Turkey trillion your eyes nothing more than the smallest little red dwarf stars -- their -- and Brad globe."

" All of -- jump to go to universe at that point. That the that we had a I hit it. Early universe so secure -- cameos together. At a I'm leery of that it were that easy it makes nominee quantum mechanic in cosmology questioned -- in Africa and well Pamela thank you so much -- forests -- it's my pleasure and then thanked her are tolerating the fact that grain will look at it."

" Though is gonna he's seen it clear once speed dial yeah."

" a moment and -- Today."

" Let's -- another question that will go back there. Question number two comes from Enders star mark in on knowing no I'm gonna pronounce this -- in Gothenburg Sweden. When things -- even Sweden."

" It's definitely on the board and the good work that's been its G-8. With two dots over -- TE. That's an -- that's a long and it's like today -- give it to bored me to board -- deport. -- the -- tell that to me. We didn't it didn't translate in my down. Now and whenever worker never has -- I had it girl who works with me. That is Swedish explain to me how to put us senate totally forgot so you're you're useless when it comes down uses companies in the jar -- the German. Which where abouts and value support. But so in -- Sweden -- And interest rates if you were mad scientists. How would you use your knowledge to take over the world. I have an answer all right today. Okay first of all in the Gaza mad scientist meaning crazies. Slash hell bent at the deal. Middle -- an article. I would definitely create as zombie buyers looking. Move yet you think about about -- like like it -- propagate itself and the news you you have to start with a few zombies here there you -- him. There's no way humanity would wind which you have to zombie fighter so that I knew I'd be in charge of the world but Sundays. A year but. At the point is -- over the world you're crazy."

" Yeah but then you know what about the women in the money. What in the PowerPoint. Over the world filled with zombie but I think the -- with the first your first get the women. If -- I didn't if you look at zombies out there. Then you get the Allah. Then you get that went so Fisher writes Steve but you know that's my version of mad scientist and -- network. I really wanna do it and I tell you I can probably it would probably take two weeks from me to take over the world the good zombie guards and two -- I could I be doing two days about C. Two words nano -- I would send out midnight into the atmosphere to be produced using the carbon that's there. In each one would -- not a person set a palace reproduce some more. Tweak hormones -- transmitters to opening levels successor until each person on the planet was extremely -- very motivated to do whatever to hell I wanted to. It's that -- US."

" Mad science I was thinking I would -- well anyone see the movie 999. They have the scientists who invented the robot. The these war for peaceful purposes for peacekeeping purposes. And you make this intimate one robot that buildup are about more about and so forth and his control this. Massive massive army of robots -- go about it. It's leaving humanity through your power and asked basically to -- military play out and do all the work."

" My dad did the zombie apocalypse spot is that -- apocalypse apocalypse and have been as the robot apocalypse got it. Affirmative I would I would do. When it got first the -- we do we is start a popular science podcast. The thing that it is -- that they -- together -- well over 5060000 regular listeners I. I would see praising the you're doing to post production for the targets I would seed it with subliminal backward masking messages. That way did -- the vibration or state of people's brains. Yeah what -- used by an area pretty bilateral beats absolutely they don't want likening it way too many details. Make. That would make you less and then I would you slowly and you mentally enslave the listeners of that podcast until they were -- under withdrawals. And then I would spread out from there. They would stand. -- troops to you know further podcasts and other social media until slowly the entire world was enslaved."

" I don't know OC I think your idea sucks. At. I like -- you discount the cut this edited. That is just not true boundaries nobody's gonna believe me anyway. -- It's it's it's all plausible seat except those first couple of -- I guess they're don't think that ever happened hand those apps you got your premise is a totally out of whack. Men who grew all the way. I still think that if all of our efforts began today. That mine would win out over the receivers. So yeah when it turns into a contest but what if it does not -- the -- The zombies don't. Go after robots right I mean they say they ignore. Inanimate thing if it -- robots who it would destroy yours on the Easter. Hello they would crush of underfoot given -- more obvious what I can make -- the 100000 and in my robots. My robots make other robots they continually. Re create the replicates. The Bob Bob and they have seven billion pre fabricated. Vessels -- veto it right. If you'd have to stop me in my initial stages -- two. -- yeah -- plans -- for domination. My my minutes -- all linked together in the atmosphere for reading solar radiation from hitting the -- for frontier robots from being powered. Maybe Libby is charged insults while people about. They would never do that. Sock a but seems. Clearly clearly my zombie horde which completely overrun you're in -- dollars I don't think you're underestimating. The the ingenuity and the power of 60000 skeptics. I think that we defeat terrorism. There's only one way to find out find a way. Okay you forced my hand the thing about -- robot. Is that they have flux capacitor and they can travel through time and destroy -- off before ya gotta get to you got things. -- up trumps all this kind of it."

" All right site does that answer your question -- And it isn't just a coincidence that is he's from a city that has the name organisms on them. About. Hero of more questions what comes from Keith Simmons and keep rates. I think a Lotus cue from Darwin Australia. I am writing -- to seek your opinion on something that came across on a paranormal and believers podcasts it may be a good topic for discussion on the show. As painful as it -- to listen to them. In the interest of being good skeptic of trying to compulsory to get both sides of the story they mentioned the possible development in man's quest to cheat death itself. They reported that there could be a way to shut down your body into organs and re animate them without any ill effects. Of all things by using poison gas a biologist named to mark Roth is reported to have been experimenting with the gas hydrogen sulphide. That when he held replaces the oxygen in the body and dust toxic chemical reactions in the body's cells that initiate do you generation. By doing this even though all vital signs have -- the body will not die in remains in the state of suspended animation. -- reportedly started experimenting on fish embryos by -- oxygen from the embryo. Finding that the embryo stopped growing and went -- reintroduce the auction that started growing again. He claims to have repeated the experiment on fruit flies and now rats in the process works however he reached -- hurdle. He says he needs to -- of hydrogen sulphide by injection to anything larger than Iraq I would love to know what you guys stink keep up the great work hope you make it to Australia -- PSI -- zombie plague on the."

" Right all right so I hate to break induced -- I don't smelling but. On the biologist mark Roth and this is exactly indeed how I create my eyes on the court that's it. Yet mark brought to your Mets scientists suited him. -- see the real question as well let's stop let's stop the decaying of your tissue I could see how it would slow down. -- bacteria not anaerobic bacteria. But -- without. Use the -- cells can't make energy. Delights. Able to as they will destroy themselves."

" but but Steve I did some research on this and the idea the idea here is that -- when you -- and oxygen levels drop safe from the normal 21%. To 5% every people -- rats directory style everybody everybody dies but when oh when you and the reason you died is because it. The lack of boxed in or the lowered to decreased amount of oxygen starts a cascade of chemical reactions and that's what's really causing us to die. But -- when you were dropped oxygen levels below safe to say a tenth of a percent. Then there's something different happens then the -- cascade does not start because you need a certain amount of oxygen for -- this is chain reaction of chemical reactions. To start when you don't have that and enough boxed in for that cascade to start. And then at popped hostess is set -- no cell death does not happen."

" Or at least into its its it would take awhile for to have -- I think that's. I think this guy has pretty much shown that that is the case for things like fish and and rats -- that is the case and that. This type of suspended animation has been done for those for those types. Campbell's but the problem though is that when he's when he scale this up to people. I'm more I guess big mammals like pigs it didn't work he wasn't able to get. He was able to get them into anything close to suspended animation or I think the main goal here is not really suspended animation. But actually I a you know a decrease in respiration so that say I Europe. You know you only required 10% of the areas of the reading a respiration -- normally what and the application. In considering DARPA is involved in this via the application of course is for a -- wounded soldiers. You know he did you get a catastrophic injury and it and the data field you bleed out or whatever. Before anybody who -- you if you could just administer something. I could make them you don't read very you know we're perspiration metabolism slows down greatly. Dendy you know the chance of surviving musical score is we were up so the problem now then is that. With pigs and stuff is that he can't get them he can't get them anywhere and United States and he's trying different methods like. I using sodium sulphide and injecting that into the bloodstream and that turns -- sulphide. And so there were that you work -- now in Canada and Australia the doing. Some tests on people to see if we don't credit doses would be. Tolerated and things I mean they did a test with this sodium sulphide injection in mice they were able to reduce heart damage. From my heart attacks by some 32% I mean it's silly some amazing stuff at least in the you know under wraps and stuff."

" Well I think clearly. Well a lot more research needs to be done on this mean it's interesting. And I'm looking forward to hearing more results from the research they'll slow a slowing it down as one thing it could slow -- metabolism. That's fine I'm very skeptical that you he could stop metabolism dead. You indefinitely without there being any untoward. Events mean you know -- claiming. And senior is one article that he was it altitude. Do with the rat for an hour and then and then bring it back to spray turning off the gas is that really didn't. And replicated by anybody is now that I've -- some other doctors are very. They're using his ideas Azteca said didn't Australian -- that they're doing tests now. With the sodium sulphide are always thought it sounds like something that. You know we should look into a little bit of war. In the stopping it completely. I don't know we'd have to see me get you doing a for a couple of hours that's the kind of thing that's that we'll have medical applications train -- huge. So and and that's that's plausible. -- for longer periods of -- days or months. Or years seen that's it that's different port in the -- court it would indefinitely and that. -- it -- The brightness evidence is very long way. From going towards that the -- with a different power Steve you gotta crawl before you run you know."

" Each week I come up with -- sites these items for the -- to real and one thing. That I tell my panel of skeptics to step out of the day. Everyone ready for this absolute."

" area item number one. New research finds that -- driving is partly genetic. Number two researchers find that ADHD is associated with consuming even a small amount of alcohol while pregnant. And a three recent analysis shows that 6% of household dust comes from outside area and tracked in dirt. But the first."

" Okay the genetic driving yeah yet like that kind of a kind of makes sense to me some people are just discounted that are being good driver. And some people might say that about me but that's beside the point. Let's see according to third one here sixty. So most of dust comes from outside. Extracted. Added that kind of makes sense to me it's Wheldon the common wisdom is that dust is mostly. Eyes shed skin cells and stop. I'll put it with other stuff thrown in -- but -- makes sense to me that that a lot of it would be to -- that that's tracked in overtime. On my clothing and feet of course. Which then just kind of -- damage which -- kind of floats around and it's nonstop at ADHD. So even a small amount of alcohol when your pregnant. Ken raise your risk of ADHD ADHD. On that dad doesn't seem quite right to medium and say that when it's fiction. Okay today."

" saw the one about driving bad driving being genetic. I think that that's definitely plausible I mean you could think about how much of our behavior. Is actually genetic. Why wouldn't certain skills be genetic of course there. So I think that's plausible and I I believe that the second one about two drinking alcohol that increasing. ADHD. What could be alcohol actually be doing to dammit."

" brain of the fetus. As did I wasn't even sure that down the alcohol play past. Into the fetuses. -- is bloody guess it does. How Steve can you tell me how filtered as the blood that from a mother to the fetus pupils sent dreaming yeah significantly. -- possible it's filtered. And then if it wasn't -- an alcoholic to developing brain of a fetus with me okay."

" storage it's an awesome about that just. Doesn't seem right around I don't know enough. The last on a recent analysis shows. I was under the impression that most of the dust in our homes came from the inhabitants in the homes from dead skin cells. This is saying it just comes it from the outside air and tracked in dirt will we of course we tracked in dirt and lots of other nasty stuff. We just think about this you wearing shoes that you wear a public restroom and and you walk in the carpet inside your house. But it got that that's gross I don't know I think that was to take McCain and sergeant which ones with the thing. That the one about the household dust."

" All right that driving being partly genetic sure why not so many things -- A partial genetics are entirely genetic. And then the ADHD. And small amount of alcohol pregnant. Not sure. And then the household -- 60% of it. Comes from outside. Air and -- in here yeah expressed I'm actually Morton that sounds right so. I'll save."

" ADHD one's action. Okay so you all agree that you research fines that bad drinking is partly genetic. And that one is completely. Starts. This is eight study from the UC Irvine and -- need found a specific. Genes. Particularly gene variant. That in subjects who had the experience they performed 20% worse on driving test and people without despair. And I follow up -- a few days later the yielded similar results. I'm -- say about 30% of Americans have this bad driving machine parent. Researchers said these people make more errors. From the get go and forget more of what they -- after. So -- and that's surprising. Teams have a lot to say about our our brains are wired up which has allowed to say about our behavior so. It's all very plausible. But using 30%. Of people out on the road there are genetically then drivers. Sure yeah. On Boston that the company somewhere dot -- that is the study were 29 people so would smallish the united companies and -- replicated. Well that's really small I don't yeah that. So is gonna number two researchers find that -- HT associated with consuming even small amount of alcohol while pregnant and that one needs. -- The -- What is fiction. Though because this totally plausible but -- alcohol those principles into the -- fetal alcohol syndrome. -- syndrome which is associated with mental retardation. But what research has found is that is that -- two studies here's one. A few weeks back which -- that alcohol is not associated with ADHD. The opposite of bullets that. But it the first resource that caught my and it was a study that showed that low levels of folate. During pregnancy are associated with -- eighty. So. Foley has been implicated in other neurological developmental disorders as well such as neural tube defects. It's binary bits and -- for example so it's already the recommendation. That. Women who are of childbearing age and who were at risk for becoming pregnant and you can't start this when you find out your pregnant and it's too late. Most of the really important stuff -- happen by the time you realized pregnant. You have to be on prenatal vitamins on Foley prior. To becoming pregnant pregnant essentially. So he should take a while you're trying to get pregnant. So this adds to the evidence that fully is important for early nervous system development is also evidence. That and children born to mothers were low in fully have small heads of comforts. While -- this actually is affecting. The overall brain growth. So bottom line is there's now multiple lines of evidence that showed that women really should take fully during pregnancy. -- Which means that a recent analysis shows a 6% of household dust come from outside -- tracked in dirt is silence. -- and it is coming idea because I too had to heard from many sources that the majority of dust in the home was dead skin cells. And that certainly does that make up a portion. A bit yeah but it turns out that an analysis of household -- shows that 60% of it is actually. From. Outdoors."

" So here's a fine example. Of something that I believe them that I had told people there had been a part of my information it was wrong yet and I impartial Iran. I had formally changing my belief right now you have to go Jane tell every single person you never told about the skin cells that it that's incorrect. But had to explain his dust dusty old reported houses. Yeah right that's like that's. That comes from a lot of decay of the house itself into the --"

" Was alluded to what they found is that it includes dead skin cells includes that includes fibers from carpets and upholstered furniture. But against 60% tracked and so -- airborne particles blown in from outdoors. The this is of interest because that that loading. Dirt particles in tracked into particles contain. Lead arsenic and other assets it's gotta -- absences yes toxins. -- eight day. Conjure up the image of a child you're dropping a toy in the dust in the on the Florida and putting it in their mouth and -- exposed to lead arsenic through that route. -- It's important to. Pakistan you know that's and I atmosphere. The fact is we live in -- tilt the world yes. Dirty filthy or a world that the natural world news is still the normal that's why we developed a detoxification system in the immune system. So congratulations. Bob -- and a thank you. It's uncanny how many of these have gotten wrong there's it is actually started by the yeah worse than random guessing parliament who. Conversely that this is that the rapist here by car you know you've been guerrilla Bubba and I can always tell when you read it level of confidence. In this one this one right this one race."

" I pretty much written off rate Bautista to second warning I knew you twit well us. Stop at stop educating yourself -- apparently no one Thursday's Iowa yesterday isn't it. If you every day I'm adapted to start reading a lot more science news for -- the thing is I've read a lot of science news. To prepare for the showed veto -- you know just keep myself out to dates that we need to move. You know our process but Steve you pick these like two hours before we do the show. Maybe if -- Atlanta. So anyway then tell us. About last week Susan -- all right well let's play again for those that."

" And -- what was that -- that was our team dear friend. The species. It's now try to pronounce this correctly. -- Also known as duck quacking fraud or shoot d.s. TSE HUT apostrophe S she duties frog. This is a -- native to south west Western Australia. Parent apparently popular around -- From Everett that I saw a lot of people get guests types of fraud -- anyway exactly. Knew whom I didn't and there were Cuban tree frogs that seem to be the most popular guests and some fun and some other green. Frogs but no nobody said Australian -- nobody's. Nobody came close geographic clear -- nobody just Mongolian death tried the drugs say that. Aesthetic and now although is inching the last person who guessed that must be way off base here was thinking -- of some sort and -- the first person here equate that quacking sound that penalty. So give them him. A beat Arnold red river MB plus for effort on the but no no correct assistance so he stumped the moments today morning I am a mad scientist after all. When -- up for this week so for this week recant something that. It is less noisy in the little more audible OK here we go. Have a listen."

" How do you feel this morning. -- Maybe just fire."

" Vampire can't read through careful. -- that's it that's all you get through popular Kevin legacy. So -- article Chris this week and have a quote today. Troubled markets are really is. Said to me by Steve I've I pilfered this from someone. -- on the center and then."

" No actually took this from the signature of an email from doctor Joseph -- Whose. Yeah writes for us on -- based medicine for you know grouped together and I noticed that -- interest being critical of the show."

" It is -- so. -- this was a Roman emperor from 161 to 180. And he was sought to be one of the five -- good -- and was also an important stoic philosopher. And the quote is if anyone can show me and prove to me that I -- in thought occurred to eat I will gladly change I seek the truth. Which never yet heard anybody it is only persistence and self delusion and endurance. Which does harm."

" Isn't really listen -- is the justice. Yeah."

" A -- quote convincing your you know it could -- Boris. I want to attribute. Listeners Zachary from Albany, New York sent in. Last week's news that noisy so thank you for that -- thank you that hey guys we. Were coming up on a year away from our Australian trip so you listeners out there that are interested -- has come please. Feel free to donate -- that chip on our website."

" We have been getting some donations -- me appreciate it thank you to everyone out there who was donated both to the the FCU general fund just keep the show going and TDs dedicated Australia fun to bring that into Australia. And make sure that -- have -- have to stay there a long time and make some trips around but there's always do more."

" Absolutely I mean you know chartering a Concord -- free file itself -- Or even -- line. Don't let it -- what I've. Learned from Richard Saunders and everything it's it's quite an unbelievably long plane ride. And you know we're gonna be the evening from Connecticut so it's even longer than where. Yes we're tumor typically Richards go to Las Vegas. But everything we're gonna be in a plane it just about twenty hours is probably you know a good solid 24 hours to order door for us whoa."

" I also have a quick favor to ask our listeners I am putting together a series of lectures on the medical myths. I'll give you more information. As this project moves forward about how to -- hopefully it'll be available within a year. Or so it's gonna be a long process but when I'm asking from you now is to email me any suggestions. For topics that you would like to be covered. In such a series are there any thing you think might be a medical mystery to any medical -- who would like to see discussed the Senate to me. Just use the at the usual contacts Foreman put medical myths in the subject headings so I can keep track of those particular emails. Steve thanks for another week. Thank all of you guys can do it hopefully Rebecca will be with us next week I understand let us hope just getting back into London we'll try to square out square our schedules and food and about on the next week. And until next week this is who are skeptics guide to the universe."

" Discuss discussion universe is produced by the New England skeptical society. In association with the James Randi educational foundation and -- chick dot org for more information on this and other episodes. Please visit our website at www. That's got its -- dot org for questions suggestions and other feedback. Please use the contact us form part of the website war send an email to info at the skeptics guide Dutch court costs. If you -- this episode to please help us spread the word I voted for aside dig. Leaving just review on iTunes you can find links to these sites and others to our home page. Serum is produced by Kyoto and is used with permission."

" Okay."

" Okay."