Title: Here and Now for Monday, October 26, 2009

" Support for this podcast comes from UPS. Helping businesses take advantage of opportunities. At UPS dot com slash white board. Here now is a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI."

" I'm running young it's here and now the CIA is reportedly intensifying its surge in Pakistan. For an alleged nine elevenths slaughter who once ruled with 9/11 hijacker Mohamed -- The Pakistani military uncovered the former roommates passport in the Taliban's stronghold of South Waziristan. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton could be saying I told you so yesterday she angered pakistanis by saying in unusually forceful language. That she found it hard to believe that government officials didn't know where al-Qaeda operatives were hiding. James Gordon amicus national security reporter for the New York Daily News. And James it's your sources that say the CIA is increasing it's efforts to find this man sang lead by high AG a German citizen but what do we know about him."

" This site by -- reserve member of the Hamburg cell and identified as such in the documents is an eleventh commission's final report. There has been a kind of obscure figure in the 9/11 narrative but definitely an important one. Because Hamburg Germany is where a lot of the operational planning for the not a little plot was conducted and where obviously -- Judge Europe and just soldier have been shouldn't Mugabe could -- we're all living prior to attack."

" But as you say mr. about hygiene was mentioned in the 9/11 commission report and they described him as an insecure follower with no personality and limited knowledge of Islam. So what does it mean what are officials as saying it means that his passport has showed up in Pakistan and by the way -- an interesting story about. How it was really discovered it was --"

" Well a couple things about that Robert first of all of the Madeleine -- report also showed that in spite of limited knowledge of Islam he had to protest. His desire for a Jihad and was given a heads up -- Ramzi Binalshibh and it was supposed to be one of the project does -- communities and -- the US. That he ought he was gonna go to Afghanistan now albeit kinda goes -- week before the eleventh attacks. And -- passport which was put on display it reporters yesterday had a standards of -- report 2001 interest to have. It's not totally clear the park starting to realize that they have double what they found in terms of this document they put it on display and some other documents. And some very very old antique captured weapons from this South Waziristan a military offensive. And other it was a journalist -- said -- do you know who this guy is mr. appointed to the passport and it seemed to catch some of the Pakistani military got off guard football -- according to my resources. CI they have kept track of this kind of regulatory and you would stop their hit list. But he has attained the rank you know kind of since nine elevenths. He is a senior propagandist and believed to be involved in the operational. Activities so I can say that I think CIA is looking. A lot harder for now we just have one thing though. It is common practice for al-Qaeda operatives to hand over the travel documents to their security people when they -- of the tribal areas. So he could have had an overstuffed -- you know eight years ago. And could be long gone but they do believe he's alive and is an active. Operative of al-Qaeda."

" Will secretary of state Hillary Clinton has left Pakistan and in -- today she's saying that he -- she made a very strong statement but she felt she had to say something about. The government there or someone there she sort of added a caveat someone in Pakistan knowing where al-Qaeda fighters are. What's the sense of those comments she made some of says she's gone off she went off script."

" I don't she went off script -- I think the pocket and increasingly -- American officials over the you know it looked just it was not long ago Robin. But no one in the US government would even say that a solid laden. And his chief lieutenants were even in the pocket start. They were destroyed humanity and Afghanistan Pakistani tribal areas now they say it very definitively so I think what she said yesterday about somebody in the government. Must know it's hard to believe no one knows where we're these -- tribal leaders are I think her comments were spot on a particular bird would currently delivered. Sure to rattle people's pockets on the look states that that's where the hierarchy of al-Qaeda. Lives."

" Well the Pakistani military has deployed 30000 troops in South Waziristan -- about 8000 militants there. They're crowing that they are driving the militants into deeper areas exits are choked but some are worried and at least one resident is quoted in the New York Times is saying. They worry that the opposite is happening that the army is being sucked in and that they are then going to be a hit hard by terrorists."

" Well that deadly creatures Pakistani military doesn't server well -- it up against the Taliban they take very very heavy casualties. Typically. And that -- bridge for -- because -- imagine god -- it look at our commitment. So we really are fighting them. But mostly what they don't have air strikes so far I mean they're never gonna take South Waziristan good luck guys that's what I would search. It's that they stronghold for the Taliban stronghold of the polished and warlords who can go kind of safe haven. And I think it will continue to be so."

" Did -- in the covers national security for the New York Daily News James thank you. Fact."

" On this Friday we've just been a little time on a great idea. If you've got kids or thinking of something leaving a legacy to someone. Make it a list of the things you think they should know. That became a particularly great idea when Johnny Cash did it and the things he thought his daughter -- should know was."

" Ten and then the --"

" Mother -- children and twelve songs and a new CD from Rosanne Cash it's called bonus. And it features twelve of the 100 songs on the list her dad gave her when she was eighteen. Losing cast joins us in the studio with the story welcome thank -- what happened what sparked the list what was going on."

" sparked a list was my ignorance. Where I was on the road with him and we were writing on the bus and he mentioned a song and I said I don't know that one of its own do you remember now I don't remember now but when your carrier for signs that I didn't know and then he says okay. And he got out as legal pad -- rest of the afternoon making this list for me wit what with his added to it was. -- very thoughtful. I you know that's the image I have in my mind of him sitting there with his pencil raised about the legal pad thinking about which song he was gonna put next. And it was an exciting thing for him to do because he had all of the songs at his fingertips. And that's an important you know it's important is that I managed to save it for. I was just thinking it would be attrition for anyone to have for the parent who's -- tonight yes but it becomes a national treasure because we get to know Johnny Cash. Thought definitely a cultural treasure -- I see it is a personal magazine like -- it over a martial arts secret or something you know. But you're right it's also a cultural tension -- had some high profile help on this project Bruce Springsteen -- still -- between Rufus Wainwright by the way. Did any of them already knows music in any names I wanna do this one. They all knew all of this music. It's it's there there are all incredibly well versed in American roots music in southern music. So I didn't have to you know say -- could you learn that they knew it. That we asked them specifically. You know I asked Russa -- on -- apartment. And he said yes and the truth."

" CN."

" Losing attention as we listen to -- streets and see if we agree on CD. What would you listen to when you did need this -- you didn't know somebody's on when did you. On line as a Beatles freak first and foremost as president in my Beatles fan -- as a pre adolescent. So and I grew up in California so I was listening to and Neil Young in Buffalo Springfield announcement John and you know Janis Joplin and in Joni Mitchell so all of the singer songwriters and the British invasion all of that I knew. Inside and out. But my mother was listening to Ray Charles and Marty -- dose of those things kind of went and and of course my dad's music. But this list that he made for me was so specific. To who he was. That it. It wasn't just illicit music it was himself. And that's the real beauty for me. You've said that long black of the Hilton is sort of the core of the and list. I don't think so. There is no country music without a backhand it's and it kind of it assimilate everything that's great about country music to narrative. You know they really clear narrative to murder ballad. That kind of cinematic quality to the scenes. The more informants those shows minor chord changes you know it's just it's got everything. That's -- lefty for cells version was point nine youth. And you know from childhood. And then my -- green cars and homes prisons so that this was the one I felt most close to my dad."

" Is she wrong for me. Yeah. Season."

" pain. Me. Not all love you know."

" Yeah me."

" Tell you as he made his listeners in cash did Johnny did Johnny Cash goes through and say this is why these are important they didn't find it's. He said some of them why they were important but you know he Adam musicologist understanding of the evolution of country music and so early folk songs were. Included protest songs. -- Really important points in the evolution of country music so that became clear when I read the list my god my dad has -- musicologist understanding of this. -- actually heard him. Talk about it later on he came to my daughter's kindergarten class and gave that overview in terms of five funeral could understand."

" We'll -- about that because yes Johnny Cash came to a kindergarten -- with an apparently -- one of the greatest collection. Amber and it wet weather cool. I was sitting or watch -- have my job is on my chest and his mother next to me leaned over and said. And should really be recording bits and of course you know that was so impromptu date no one will only TT."

" C two a five year old about you know motherless children nor 500 miles I -- what kind what he's saying. As I recall this is an eighty seven's that is -- recall he talked about the importance of gospel in southern blues in the evolution of country music. And also folk and protest songs there's too far corners away from each other but they're both essential to the evolution of country music. So he Tina -- he talked about that raise a child can understand -- we talked about Woody Guthrie. As well as sister Rosetta Tharp who was it deep gospel singer. I moved to have been her plan that long have been a fly and that while my goodness announce so I feel like well the list does. Kind of giving tribute to that little or."

" to -- for my hero who listen to more this is party's president. And has his new CD the list includes twelve songs her father Johnny thought she should know. Songs he considered essential American musical have mode as an actor great. And later was again who killed by political dirty tricks. Here."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to our conversation with Roseanne cash about her new CD -- list. Twelve functionally yesterday gave her when she was eighteen the songs Johnny Cash new in his bones and confidence in him to."

" It's. -- here."

" That's she's got. And I think -- CD and listen -- we -- give credit to some of the people who wrote the songs and to tell us some of the song writers here."

" Well they're very few who are still living me that's the first I have to say it's kind of heartbreaking that a lot of these songwriters I can't should hand delivered this CD to them. Hank Cochran who wrote she's got you is eighty years old I believe he's not well and he came to hear me performed she's got you would just I you know I was in tears it was such an emotional. Evening. Merle Haggard one of the greatest country song writers who ever lived to a silver wings is are clearly still alive and a wonderful still performing you know. Bob Dylan is another son -- Married John Wilkins is the only woman. Of the songwriters and she co wrote long blackmail she's not still living that I met her annihilate teens and she news. Fairy. Instrumental and me becoming a songwriter."

" The sooner you get to pay online analysts. You mentioned Bob Dylan included is his girl from the north country you're dead did duet with Dylan. And 6969. On Dylan's Nashville skyline. Was to smooth. --"

" Okay."

" When you -- when the sun news. It's anything and -- growth in north country because I just performed you know on -- healthier menu dispute and I was starting to choke up again. Everytime I start to sing -- song it's. It's this feeling that everything has come full circle of my life. You know I have images of my dad and -- recording that song in 1969. -- which may mean the coolest fourteen year old on the planet anyway. And I'm still pretty cool actually and then. Didn't -- you know I just wish so -- my dad is everything anger over the -- guarantee you wouldn't believe it. Union and."

" Around noon. They're. Mean. Sheila there's -- this and."

" You've said that one of your face -- it. After -- to update the list absolutely unleashing another one this you know he's not hearing you sing it."

" Don't go out and I don't think that accurately where does this record with my parents still lies it's that kind of thing. You don't really care about legacy until you can't ask them about it anymore. Until that's what you have left you know. That's the bittersweet quality to this whole thing but yes I do regret not asking him to update the list so much. But oddly enough my daughter Chelsea Crowell -- its first record is coming out next month. Called me and said where's my list."

" On isn't greed and what we do what you put I have been thinking about an non stop by and The Beatles look -- But then you have to make is dividing line do you include The Beatles do you include British invasion or is it just kind of you know American roots music that it's a whole other list. Included community and the way. Any other regrets of that. Your relationship with Newton while that I didn't ask for advice tomorrow afternoon stab earn and is independent and is rebellious teen he Johnny Cash. -- is that something apple doesn't fall far right yeah I wish I had asked him for advice."

" Well I'm just realizing talking -- you. I'm reminded of how I once. So you're dead almost be killed by one of his. You're aren't on Larry gentlemen my ate my then brother in law Robert Duvall has gone -- and taken us to research Pentecostal preachers. When he was doing when he was doing mountain the film and and and you're dead and his wife June. We're helping him do that and they cooked up a big -- of food. And then if you dead wanted to take a sad to see all these. Exotic animals and I he had and is."

" Who attacked and I remember that. There and now he ended up -- the -- one side -- and yeah I know I know it was but it you know nearly killed by an -- everywhere I laughed about it and laughed at it that we like it in that moment. Elect he can dive on under the old pickup truck. East just just it was just kind of her and me. I mean and that's how I feel about the."

" Johnny Cash didn't make the list for me my dad in the U. You also see that you you wish you'd -- to lower for the -- who do. You know I forgot I had until 2005. It's just lucky it stayed in my box of letters mementos. And when you're thinking now I am just a question where did he could -- his songs. He is very modest act act intentionally to focus on the list. You later the fifth and on the scene they're not on the CD that you know I really do wanna do fine tuned. To move on inactive and."

" That's using cash her new CD's a list includes some songs from the list of 100 songs are dead solid the essential for her and now. Boy I I just think he'd be great for invasive and do some things for their kids -- thanks so much thank you. All now."

" Me me -- Turn. Even paying her to me. So he. I hear Celine thing. Marines for me."

" this time from the list this is bury me under the weeping willow by eight. And Monday and here and now house stimulus money is reaching rural America that's Monday. Here and now."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. Ice CA Boston dot org."

" To Afghanistan now where the UN is increasing security after that attack this weakening guest house that killed five UN workers. The Taliban has threatened to disrupt next Saturday's runoff presidential election. UN officials say violence should be allowed to derail the vote but concerns about security and the political uncertainty after the fraudulent election in August. Taking a toll on Afghanistan especially on its economy the BBC's Charles Havilland reports on how some business people in -- are faring."

" This is the epicenter of Afghanistan's money exchanged through hundreds of men here. Each of them clutching loads of high -- foreign currency I can see Saudi Arabian money. Pakistani money I think. And all also afghanis the Afghan currency and all around meet our currency saying it's just not -- that is the -- case beating up to a second and third level. All of them lined with the same money exchange shops and their branches of banks as well."

" And one of the shops Haji Mohammed Amin John Christy. And fix it tub and Pashtun man says green tea and could you on this with friends. But there are no customers in here. The commotion outside in fact deceptive. Exchange businesses like -- GM means a suffering badly. Because of the incessant political uncertainty. Def product."

" But that day goal of the one person will say one thing about the election someone else to say something else. Elections of cut our business by about 50%. -- customers a businessman. They get foreign currency for -- to pay for goods from all over the world. But now the businessman stop they would they not changing money so that's affected always."

" To just across town another breed of businessmen is also suffering election related news. And here we're giving people the smoke of the Barbeque. It's on the stays -- live music a font -- floodwater. And also placed -- Annan shows me how he's developed in the garden of Afghan fright seeking continental. His successful fast food joint just 22 years old. He's also -- to VIP room on the floor above. But the second story is still an empty shell. He's planning a state of the art conference room that the most appointee says -- international organizations stop pulling out because of political instability. Everybody. The local organizations international organization and even the Afghan government just concentrated on election. And they forgot what they have left in the back and that what did nothing to back is the economic circumstances in Afghanistan. Most of the organizations. And Mattel sent. International investors. Have stopped there investing in Afghanistan. Because everybody is pelting the future of -- time it might be a better future and it might be something worse."

" That is not been sullied the news for Afghan businesses. A machine cuts straight sheets of paper at the Massoud was neat printing press. Its owner -- Mohamed says he and others in the trade fri eight producing election related materials."

" For a business entity has its -- season -- is an election. People aren't Laura and good to have led their self also the president or something -- They want to print both sides and -- had a participant. Far depositions. The indifferent to our company. And discus. You can get -- other -- that many much more money than any other seasons."

" But even for him trade since August has slumped. And to make matters worse the main road past his office recently closed down because of bomb attacks. This is where the couple river runs through the city center that -- to -- in this trying season. The man heading sheep along the muddy bank which is sometimes the president. Dozens of bicycles pumps that is thriving commerce all over the place -- shops still selling pots and pans clothing and copy its. There's still a malaise in Afghan business people like the fast food entrepreneur -- by -- yen for a rapid end to the current political uncertainty. Only with security and stability says about a left and he expands his plans. Security we'll certainly enabled me. Doing further investments and Afghanistan. I'm not only constructing my third floor. I might have found the plans to establish on the franchise of my hotel. In a -- of the provinces and provide essar can stand a chance as self employment for the rest of Afghans in different provinces and a lot of Afghans with -- that sentiment. But for the moment they like the business community must wait."

" The BBC's Charles Havilland reporting from -- You're listening to hearing."

" Democrats say they'll have the votes to pass the health care bill unveiled in the house yesterday. It includes a more moderate public option imposes a number of taxes and fees on insurers and medical device makers. Also includes a little discussed provision that's considered a big victory for Biotech companies. The provision would give Biotech a twelve year period of exclusivity when a new drug is created that's. Twelve years before a generic version can hit the market. And our next guest says the crafting of this provision as a case study in how interest groups are shaping the contours of health care reform. Tarrant County is senior political correspondent for time magazine she joins us from the monitors studios. In Washington DC -- welcome. I think it's great to be here Rodman and as I read your rating it's also an illustration of how powerful committee chairs like can you -- being beaten by lobbying he was against this provision we're talking about. He helped pass legislation back in 1984. To get generics until the markets sooner to lower the cost of drugs that that law doesn't apply to these new drugs. Bio logic -- day. -- politics are different from traditional pharmaceuticals because they are. Created through biological processes rather than with chemicals will receptionist covered the best known of these drugs made from living matter -- in chemical. That's right and they're extraordinarily effective that there also extraordinarily expensive they can cost tens of thousands of dollars a year in some cases they can cost as much as 200000. Dollars a year and Anderson and again for breast cancer the biologics now only comprise about 20% of drugs on the market that -- that's gonna leave infect all medicine is expected to Sunday. Beef from living matter rather than chemical. But as you said right now they're expensive and that's the company's argument for keeping exclusivity because they they wanna. Get more money in so that they can create more miracle drugs took."

" Explain politics and who's backing biologics. Well it's a number of organizations of course the most obvious one is the Biotech industry and increasingly. The traditional pharmaceutical industry which is a acquiring a lot of these little Biotech companies. But you've also seen a number of advocacy groups for people with certain diseases come to their side. But what becomes hard to Trace in all of this is where the money is coming from because it -- often you'll see. A new advocacy group spring up and once you've looked into who their board of directors is and where their funding is coming from you find out that it's all coming from the pharmaceutical industry."

" Well -- most of Biotech firms are also in states that have universities and research hospitals we have politicians speculates Senator Ted Kennedy who was very much in favor. Of a twelve year exclusivity period because of all the Biotech work gets done here in the Boston area and many California. Politicians in favor as well."

" Yes the Biotech industry unlike those traditional pharmaceutical industry which you haven't basically a few states places like New Jersey North Carolina. This isn't industry that is growing up everywhere essentially that you have a teaching hospital in research hospital. It's these -- powerful institutions and in congressmen and -- home states. Their industries that are creating terrific jobs so they are very very powerful and -- while an on the other side you have."

" People like blogger and breast cancer survivor Jane Hampshire at. She calls this new provision giving these companies exclusivity a death sentence -- my fellow breast cancer survivor she talks -- friends. Struggling to find ways to pay for cancer drug so and the other side their people who want generics out faster because they're cheaper. So powerful. Is the Biotech industry organization BI. With its CEO Jim Greenwood."

" A former Republican committee chair -- how powerful our day. They are extraordinarily powerful they are essentially winning every battle in congress. The Obama administration wants to give these drugs no more than seven years of exclusivity. Henry Waxman a very powerful committee chairman in the house energy and commerce committee said -- five years the Federal Trade Commission. Has suggested that they get no period of exclusivity. They say that giving him too much of -- window is gonna actually dampen their incentive to innovate. And yet every single vote they're winning this twelve year period of exclusivity Henry Waxman essentially gotten. Rolled by his own committee something that is very rare. In the end when they took the votes it was 401 against him and how much is BI and the Biotechnology Industry Organization spending. Yeah it is really hard to Trace all of this -- you take them Biotech industry. And the pharmaceutical industry and by a significant amount they are spending more than any other player right now on lobbying. Health care reform than any other industry players."

" Look like I -- one stat in your article in the first six months of this year alone drug and Biotech companies. And their trade association spent more than a 110 million dollars that's as you calculate 609000. Dollars a day to lobby lawmakers and I was thinking. If their biggest concern is that they want to have enough revenue to produce new drugs. With that could have been right there. But and that doesn't even count the extraordinary amount they're giving in campaign contributions. This health care bill has been a growth industry for the influence industry here in Washington. But again they say that they need to have this exclusivity so that they can and be positioned to make more miracle drugs down the road and not have generic drugs undercutting. Their revenue I think everybody acknowledges this is a balance here between. Giving them incentives and making sure that consumers have therapies out there that they can afford. And really it is the question of where you strike that balance and woman's question before we have to go. The health care bill unveiled in the house yesterday it has what's being called public option late. And not as much of a public plan as some Democrats would have liked but at least it has one. Might that public option plan help people who don't have insurance and can't afford. These extraordinarily expensive biologic drugs might there be something there to offset. Did generics that aren't gonna come on market wealth there will be that it it will be a."

" Question of whether your insurance plan is actually willing to cover these drugs. Add to that one of the things that has not gotten as much attention in this house bill is. The vast expansion. And that is anticipated in the Medicaid program that's where people are gonna go -- this public -- life. That's right because they picked -- weaker version of the public option they didn't save as much money as they had anticipated that they came up 85 billion dollar short. And the way that they dealt with with this was Qiyue. Take two and a half million people who might otherwise have been -- they're buying their insurance on the exchanges and put them in the Medicaid program now there this is it cheaper way to cover people but if you look at some of the problems for Medicaid program is already happening there aren't enough for providers even for the people who are already there so. The house has tried to help in some ways they're gonna expand community health center program they're gonna do some things about reimbursement of providers who do take Medicaid patients but I do you think there is still a concern here that you may be giving people coverage that they may not be able to go out and and find someone who. Karen Timothy senior political correspondent for time magazine Karen thanks so much thank you -- OK just ahead."

" Your letters. And who done it just how to take it imposed. And listen."

" Support for here and now comes in part from the school foundation supporting social entrepreneurs around the world. Uncommon heroes dedicated to the common good. Learn more at school dot org."

" Welcome -- here and now and we have a few minutes for your thoughts on the program. We heard a lot of your thoughts after yesterday's conversation with no school bell. Former writer for David Letterman who's now speaking out about how she felt his office affairs. Led to sexual favoritism and a hostile environment for -- car. Matthew Anderson was one of many who wrote to say he was impressed with mills speaking out. All kudos to her for that he writes however Matthew an African American and himself a writer. Joined others who objected when in calling for more female writers in late night Nelson this."

" And I'm not talking affirmative action nation lowered their standards. But that doesn't mean they can -- reach out and ink cartridge."

" Here's a call from Maryland Richardson in Watertown Massachusetts."

" It was like this recruit could benefit from affirmative action has been like when it. That he could get him. That's. On how committed back -- automatically equals or expanded an audit committee he is good to -- is completed. And that they --"

" Well we call mills canal today in California she says she wished she spoken differently she only meant she didn't want legal quotas imposed or. Shows told a hires say someone's daughter she wants late night all male shows to want to hire women. We also got a lot of response recently to our interview with journalist max Blumenthal. Whose book Republican Gomorrah inside the movement that shattered the party. Makes his case that the Christian right has arrested the GOP away from the center. Jim Thompson a Fort Mill South Carolina had this response."

" Someone who has been involved with Republican politics. Working to follow Reagan's 1976. Days in New Hampshire yeah if he enjoyed the program be. One of those. Reagan's cold water. Camp Republicans -- to -- support the cost Republicans about it."

" But Brenda Wolfe of Fairbanks Alaska resented the insinuation that people say in the tea party protests. -- overly influenced by the Christian right here right. I'm willing to give max Blumenthal the benefit of the doubt that there is actually some validity to be found in his vitriolic tirade. Against some people who've been influential Christian leaders. But people can be influenced by an adopt certain communication techniques from them without accepting any part of their message. I'm not a Protestant and do not pay particular attention to James Dobson Pat Robertson. But you also wanna try an -- say chuck Colson since he was also really hammered by Blumenthal. Come to think of it who wasn't. Well Brendan just so you know we do have a standing invitation into James Dobson as well as one to chuck Colson stay tuned. As always good to hear your thoughts on anything on the program go to here and now dot Oregon just click on contact us. Well finally we media on this eve of all hollows eve with a mystery story."

" I typed on that we can create. All of our many equating the curious bottom of a cop. I'd -- not admitting that things suddenly there came that happy. Has found someone get you back in. Wrapping it might chamber door."

" Vincent Price reading from Edgar -- the raven note to myself which agreed that tomorrow night. All year there's been a slew of events to commemorate the 200 anniversary of -- here in Boston. But as death -- and sixty years ago this month in ball more Merrill and there are number theories about just how Pope met his untimely and they tomato producer of the memory palace has this tale of -- strange and tragic last day east."

" You got on the wrong track him. He was headed to New York from Philadelphia about want to Baltimore it's. We can't be sure -- happen. We can't be sure about a lot of things that happen to aground between September 27 race trainer arrived. In October 7 1949 the -- something. The Washington College hospital. We don't know what killed. People have spent a 160 years sifting through the clues trying to figure out. Like -- detective trying to solve those murders in the room more spoiler alert it was direct. But even if they've got -- Bosnia and ran whatever sort of CSI history stuff in view these days. Or the result might come back definitively cholera -- brain lesions or alcohol poisoning or even a rabies. All which people suggest it. Now while that might explain definitively why he died. We won't know what killed -- ground. I don't know that's. Always going to be America's --"

" His first wife Virginia had died two years earlier -- Virginia was the love of his life she was his first -- thirteen days 27 ordinary. It seems that one day in 1842 she was playing the piano -- Tartikoff. If you see just about any movies in the nineteenth century you know means. And we know that -- consumption or worse. So did her husband's already problematic drinking. We also know that after Virginia died. -- commit a poet from Providence and promised her he'd stop -- with the bring us the secret to marriage."

" She's dead but he couldn't. -- here is calling -- count that's been our. She was born in its primary."

" Something -- Something made him wind up delirious in Baghdad and near death stretched out I don't wooden plank anti saloon on wal -- wearing another man's powers. Something made him shiver and hallucinating. And slipped in and out of a coma and shout out and flailing actually had to be strapped into -- hostile."

" And it was probably local -- CE. -- an election. And that saloon was a polling place in the city's fourth ward. And the -- party needed a big turnout. And the fourth quarter wigs had ways of getting him turnout. It seems that Edgar -- Spent his last they have -- his last day before he was taken to hospital it. It seems that the man who wrote the ravens and inability. And telltale heart. Had been kidnapped by it's they would do this. These thugs it's really the only works. -- kidnap people just walking out. In the name dragged him from polling place to polling place forcing them to vote over and over. Sometimes they're switched their clothes that they could go another -- same place and to ensure their compliance to get them drunk or high and -- In the beat him. And they keep them locked up and use small -- until they had to got a cannon. The call practice scooping because they'd be cooped up until it's time Jack -- back out. So it seems that the man who invented the detective story the man who gives the blueprint that you'll have everything from Sherlock Holmes Agatha Christie to pledge to the wire speaking out terrible things happen. Seems that the first American writer to try and make his living my right in between form boxing got during the Reagan was not even back in the forties. The first American to make his living by right. Not my family money or professors or reference. It seems that Edgar -- Spent his last count. Being kidnapped. And driver and smacked around and dragged half conscious of default marked -- basic or. Be stripped of his close. And putting another man's for being dumped on delirious confused. -- dying somebody."

" It's. Okay. -- Hey hey. I had my. And I."

" Yeah we."

" And."

" Yeah."

" I had. Yeah."