Title: Here and Now for Tuesday, October 20, 2009

" Support for this podcast comes from UPS. Helping businesses take advantage of opportunities. At UPS dot com slash white board. Here now is a production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service."

" And PRI I'm -- young it's here and now President Obama is calling it an important precedent for Afghanistan democracy. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has agreed to a runoff elections scheduled for November 7 less than three weeks from today. Yesterday UN backed panel throughout a third of Karzai's votes in the August 20 election. Today the Afghan independent election commission agreed there should be runoff with former foreign minister of -- of Duma. Peter Galbraith is the former investor to creation and was deputy head of the UN mission in Afghanistan. Until he was forced out for voicing his concerns about election fraud. Investor -- you know went to gloat but are you feeling vindicated today."

" Well they hit it it's certainly true that what I was saying. From before the elections. Auto -- at the time of the election and afterwards has. Turned out to be exactly right. That that. Side this was an unnecessary crisis if the UN had taken action before the election because I was. Trying to do or had reacted to the fraud. Earlier we would not have had this prolonged crisis that has so. How -- Afghanistan and so seriously undermined international support for very important mission in Afghanistan."

" Well given those concerns concerns you expressed during election what's your sense of and election going forward."

" Well first I think having a run -- election is by far the best outcome. At this point in time there was no good outcome but simply to have a deal between Karzai -- doctor ability -- main challenger would not have been a good outcomes. But now -- most important thing is to make sure that the second round. It's not a repeat of the first round. And there are three things that need to be done. The UN needs to stop pretending that the independent election commission. This is the Afghan body that is actually responsible for running the election. That UN needs to stop pretending that it is independent and anything other than the title. Its members were appointed by Karzai and it behaved in entirely partisan way it needs to be closely supervised. -- The -- primarily took place in what I called ghost polling stations. These ones that were located on a map in places either controlled by the telethon or so insecure that no observer could go -- candidate agent could go. And no voter could go. I've been trying to get them shut down in July but I was so rule. Well now they need to be removed from the rolls this is where the fraud took place in places where they'll -- voters but many -- And -- The staff of the so called independent election commission who. Participated in the fraud need to be removed and it's very simple to identify who these people are. In every instance where there was broad selection commission staff. Either committed the fraud. Collaborated with those who committed the fraud or knew about it and failed to report it and so those people need to be replaced. That's going to be difficult in the two weeks between. Now and the holding of elections but it's essential if anybody can have confidence in the --"

" We haven't even mentioned that as we said yesterday on the program this nose in the mountain make it virtually impossible. To get to some of the areas that would need to vote given all of that do you think that this vote is gonna take place on November 7."

" I think it should take place on November 7 it's a tricky time appear but not an impossible time of the year most of the country is not covered by now. It seems to me it's better to have an election side then to have this crisis continue if you didn't have the election I think you get some kind of deal which I think many Afghans would -- who cynically. Or simply the crisis continues and the question is who's the president's."

" Well and one of the deals mentioned as a power sharing government is -- and -- a dual or a Loya Jirga traditional Afghan meeting to try to resolve the situation. Would you say that those would be greeted with cynicism."

" a deal would simply divided up jobs would be greeted with -- a Loya -- that addressed at some of the flaws in the Afghanistan's constitution. I think would be a very welcome development. The problem in Afghanistan is that you have a constitution setting up a very centralized system. Would want to just one really important job the president so it's such. A winner take all before one ethnic group the president almost invariably the polished and from the largest group. And so there's no real system out of power sharing what doctor Abdullah has proposed -- how much I think this makes sense. Is that you have a system in which there's an elected prime minister and cabinet chosen by the parliament. The other part of this I think that needs to be considered is instead of a very centralized system having some devolution of power to local. Elected local government."

" But right now as you said it's winner take all in most analysts as you say believe Karzai will be that winner because he. Is a -- to one of the largest ethnic groups so windy and might there be an election on the seventh with the same exact outcome. As the one in August scars as the president in very centralized government."

" That could be the case if it's an honest election that's so much better results and then what took place in August. But. It's also that we shouldn't kid ourselves it's also important to bear in mind that even if there's an honest vote in on November 7. But Karzai is not going to escape the pain -- of the fraud that took place in the first round. It comes on top of his running and ineffective. Administration a corrupt administration. And now he has potential fraud but it would be a much better outcomes if he becomes president for another term as a result of an honest election."

" And -- even on that summer no Peter Galbraith former deputy head of the UN mission in Afghanistan until he was forced out because of his complaints about fraud in the August election. And faster -- thanks so much for speaking to us."

" More than five million Americans roughly 10% of the industrial workforce are employed by foreign companies in the US. They range from well known Toyota to hardly know an Indian and Chinese companies -- and higher. They are in every state and to lure them local governments routinely dangle huge incentives worth tens even hundreds of millions of dollars. Is worth the expense initially Maynard says. Yes in fact she says not only do these foreign investments create thousands of American jobs they pump billions into economy's strength communities. Anti Americans knew and often better when used to work. Wait a minute what happened by American -- new book is the selling of the American economy how foreign companies are remaking the American dream. She's also senior business correspondent for the New York Times -- spoken many times with her. After her coverage of the car industry and she joins us live from to. It Mickey welcome I'm -- and as you know these fighting birds in some corners you know. The thinking what can -- we don't teach us about working we're Americans -- let your member of the movie gun home."

" Which came out a few years ago starring Michael Keaton but it gave the picture of foreigners coming over here to teach us how to do our business and I think in that movie the Americans outsmarted their new owners but. In the case of the foreign companies that didn't have invested in the United States they're bringing ideas that Americans have actually gone to other countries to study. But now instead of having to get on a plane and go to Tokyo Oreo com or wherever the factories to -- been built here and Americans are being hired to do this job."

" Let's talk a little bit about that part the part of that change in the way we work let's start with the story of one worker norm before you know. Who worked at GM for fourteen years at Toyota for ten when you met him Toyota in the US. A little bit about his experience for -- Didn't care about his resume they you're looking for something different in their hiring explain that."

" actually met him when he was still at General Motors and was considered to be a young rising star TM and it was the kind of person that they would make available to reporters for interviews and news very popular with the people -- work with. He came over to Toyota and essentially had to start over none of that really matter and although they would not have hired him if he didn't have promise. They were not hiring him to come in and teach General Motors methods to Toyota. On the contrary he was there to learn about Toyota and he went through quite a long and apprentice ship which is very very unusual. For an American manager at that point in his career."

" In fact they put managers in situations. Explicitly where they don't have skills and they don't congratulate people for what's right but rather looking for wrong there's Japanese words that are used like Tyson and have a -- at this again she again but so."

" Yes -- said means continuous improvement. And again she give -- means -- at the spot in other words don't wait for someone to come in and say you know this machine broke on the assembly line. You go to the spot you go look at the machinery you go talk to the workers. And say tell me what went -- and tell us what how you think we should fix this. It's definitely different from the American way of managed."

" Well it's an extend that there are no executive parking spots no executive dining rooms and the idea I mean it really is. Unbelievable that you put a manager where they aren't comfortable -- have to learn. Along with everybody else what you saying this is Toyota which of course has been much written about you talk about of the company's tata higher. What he's saying in general that American corporations have an -- wrong."

" American corporations have about -- but I'm saying that they're not the only answer and then not the only answer within the United States. One of the things that greatly surprised me was that foreign companies are in every state and foreign companies. Are playing a significant role in manufacturing and very very varied parts of the American economy. Certainly we heard the most about the automobile industry but they're starting to -- in an aviation visited. A helicopter plant in Mississippi that's owned by EDS the big. French German consortium that you would probably know for owning Airbus. And what I found was that instead of just a few factories here there it's become a part of the American economy. And why do companies want to invest -- we don't have cheap labor so why -- coming. Well first of all we're still the most attractive consumer market anywhere until China becomes -- affluent as we are. People want to be in the United States that the ability to entered the American market is fairly easy Avant. We don't Al that we have a -- a history of protectionist rhetoric we don't have a history of protectionism. Except in a few industries. And so it's pretty easy to come over here and then. Very important factor is that. Mayors governors senators are falling over themselves to attract these companies want to ask you about that."

" You know because many have questioned that aspect is that of this -- give the example of Haley Barbour then governor of Mississippi who put together a package worth 294. Million dollars in incentives. To a company that amounted to the state paying 147000. Dollars for each of 2000 jobs created spoken Michael Schumann. He's small business guy author of the small -- revolution. He says there's no evidence that money is a major factor in these decisions to bring in big companies with a foreign or domestic. And you even -- that more important of these foreign companies. Is the presence of a college in the areas and they get you know high highly educated workers so. Our our Arab states making a mistake in dishing out so much money to these foreign companies."

" I remember when Alabama I was going after its very first car plants and it offered huge package to Mercedes span. And it was a very expensive packets in fact at one point the state wasn't going to be able to pay it. And the retirement systems had to have to step it with a short term loan to the state. But after Mercedes-Benz. Came the Honda plant. The Toyota engine plant the Hyundai plant many many parts makers and so. I'm sure the state of Alabama would say that that original money that they spent for that factors -- at all southern states many of the southern states have looked at this obscene. The jobs that Cummins in the new subdivisions that are built the new businesses that come in the new road systems that are built. And they all want a piece of this --"

" While it's initially -- her new book is the selling of the American economy how far companies are remaking the American dream it's quite provocative read. Becoming a lot of questions without unions. Here's one quickly before the break how much of the money that these companies make. And generate actually stays in the country's not a question -- their foreign companies young navy hiring American workers but the money they're generating does not go back home. -- about 49% of that is reinvested in the United States okay well there's the surety to that question that we have many more. Will be that the Mickey Maynard to ask film and ask him about how people small towns are feeling about foreign companies that in my -- On -- jingoistic feelings about. Coming to their town. After -- minute break also later today that other presidential stalemate the one in Honduras that you -- that much about it later back in a minute hearing now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to a conversation about formed firms doing brisk business in the US with. Mickey Maynard senior business correspondent for the New York Times also author of the new book the selling of the American economy how foreign companies are remaking American dream and the conclusion is that it's an overwhelmingly positive way. And McCain even talking primarily about a Toyota and the car industry that you -- in a wide range of industries hotels. T refrigerators finance could you just go. Through a couple of the other successful in examples."

" Absolutely I'd I don't know who drank it o'clock coffee this morning at 8 o'clock coffee is owned by tata. Which is a very large Indian companies that might be best known to listeners as. The maker of the -- the 2500 dollar car they also managed the pier hotel in New York City which just got a big renovation. They -- what's called Taj hotel in Boston used to be the Ritz Carlton where. I went to lunch -- a young girl with my mother and enjoyed very much and is there a couple of other industries to -- Airbus which is the aviation wing of EADS would like to come in to the United States they want. The Pentagon tanker contract the 35 billion dollar deal limit him in there with a click. Because we have so many and one of them is about security a lot of people worry that foreign investment. Especially when it gets into things like military contracts is dangerous for the country that it that this concern and there has been some concern in some of the IT deals that have gone through and especially this tanker contract. Which EADS actually won at the beginning and have it overturned by the GAO the general accounting office report. The found flaws in the bidding process Boeing based in Seattle does not want them to have that contract. And they're going to fight very vigorously in the second round of bidding to make sure that the French German company doesn't get it but. If they do get that they want to build a plant in Mobile, Alabama to produce those aircraft."

" That's one of the question. Is how small towns feel about embracing. Let's put the name on -- foreigners. At because there's the feeling that you don't buy American globalization is bad and here comes some foreign company back to tell the story of a man standing up at a Rotary Club and saying I want those Japanese here and I believe it was."

" Yes that happened in Georgetown Kentucky which is really kind of the poster child for every community in the country that once the foreign investment. Georgetown Kentucky before Toyota came had a little downtown and one McDonald's. If you visit Georgetown now it looks like that scene in it's a wonderful life at Christmas where. The whole town is split up there in new restaurants and shopping malls and wal marts in three McDonald's and essentially when that went way to came in there with Japanese executives. They made an effort to go to the Rotary Club and go to Krueger's would be out in the communities so people wouldn't see them as some kind of hidden enemy. And it happens the end of an adjustment for some people working for foreign companies that I worked for what I would hurt for the Reuters news service and I remember. Thinking what will London lines and it turned out that that really matter -- London line it was what my managers in New York won it and they were by and large American."

" Well you discovered that what the reasons that these foreign companies so far. Have been so embraced is that they anticipated. Sort of an American pride. And and Americans. Xenophobia. And they bend over backwards to avoid that which is one of the reasons they've been so successfully mention -- time buying the Ritz -- here in Boston. Making sure to keep that key staffers in place so that the same person's opening the door for you or other other women from the back pain we're going their for lunch they. They seem to be hyper aware of the needs of the communities they go to."

" And I think it's an awareness that American companies have not always shown when they've built facilities overseas and I've covered the auto industry for many many years and and everyone sort of rotates through over the over there wherever there is. And then comes back and you don't have the stability that you might have if managers are hired locally I think that. These companies have a ways to go because it that the leaders that the very top the CEOs and the general managers at some of these factories still tend to be from the home office but. That's definitely changing norm -- who we talked about earlier at the Princeton Indiana Toyota plant. He's now vice president of advanced engineering at Toyota for North America so people are being hired trained in promoted."

" Well here's an issue especially the car industry. You write these these plants Toyota plans for instance one in Williamstown Kentucky really appealing 80000 people applying for 2000 jobs. But these are not union jobs and you're saying that the culture that's being created. Is sort of not leading to an embrace of unions because the workers are so happy they're treated. Things you're your take on that -- there there opinion is respected and they haven't seen the need for unionization. But I think paid less -- may but let's let's be clear about how what's the pay difference between. Some of these foreign companies and American. Corporations because it was somewhat -- during the collapse of the car industry months ago."

" That's right if you look just at the Toyota plant in Georgetown Kentucky the workers there make about three dollars an hour less in pay just pay. Then workers in Detroit made before they've made it big concessions as part of the bailouts. They were making an average of this is all it including the value of benefits in the future value pensions. At about 73 dollars an hour and it was less for workers at Toyota. It was. More in the range of the high forties who now this isn't that the people say this is an unfair comparison because. The union contracts included these legacy cost like pensions and health care. There were -- to be paid after retirement such costs are not paid by the -- the other car companies. They offer for a one K plan some do offer some pensions but it isn't anything like what workers got in Detroit. But the thing is there a lot fewer workers at Detroit car plants and -- wants work. And these foreign car plants by and large are still higher."

" Well and they're pledging in many cases not to to let go full time workers -- we only have a minute left here. So let's say that we go that they may be used on the road. They may say you Mickey Maynard are drinking accrue late fifty in embracing so much you know you say this they are overwhelmingly positive for the US what to say to people still. A little fearful of so much foreign investment in us."

" You know I would say what governor grand home in Michigan his Democrat would say what governor Barbour of Mississippi is a Republican would say. And that is jobs are jobs. And down the road when American the American economy recovers we can talk a lot about a lot of the use of other issues. But if companies are willing to come in build factories and invest here I think we should take the jobs that maybe teach them how to do."

" Some things well and you point out younger generations many of them don't even know Toyota. He's not an American born company that's Mickey Maynard the selling and the American economy health foreign companies are making the American dream is her latest book that he thinks is going. Thank you -- a pleasure."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. Ice CA Boston dot org."

" You may have heard about those climate change activists who claim to be members of the business friendly US chamber of commerce. They send out press releases that actually got reported and held a fake news conference yesterday at the National Press Club. Claiming the chamber was reversing its position and would now back legislation on climate change. Sadly real chamber of commerce official burst in --"

" Please. Aaron wolf let alone US chamber of commerce. This is not an official US chamber of commerce event I don't know what we can here here. What is it brought in -- press activity and -- stuff."

" It has been a tough time for the chamber the Obama administration is marginalized in the group because of its opposition not only to current climate change legislation. But also health care reform -- a proposed consumer financial protection agency. And big companies like apple in the energy companies PG&E an excellent has left the group or as a CEO of California consulting firm put it. The cool kids -- lead in the room. So clueless that chamber of commerce and is different from real local chamber of -- Michael shear covers the White House for the Washington Post Michael start there. Who was the US chamber of commerce."

" We -- its interest in its its. Different then the local chambers in a lot of ways good the national chamber is a group represented about 300000. Posted big corporations. Coca-Cola Amazon -- and the thing and Eric. You know an established group of people here who have been lobbying congress for decades. Local chambers of course -- pretend that represent the smaller businesses -- injured community -- it -- local chamber can be a pretty conservative group became more moderate or liberal group committed. Over a bit this interest but it it -- the real thing."

" Right some local groups -- back more local businesses some wanna bring in chains but it is a local group as opposed to this nationwide lobbying group they're not actually connected. And press Obama has been very pointed in his remarks to the national lobbying group."

" Yeah take a good example and incident the other day when the national chamber had run ads questioning the consumer protection. Efforts of the president is doing it and saying that somehow local butcher. In a community was going to be. Be affected of course the president then called that totally false and that is our keynote there's very few butchers the provide critical services at all -- after the -- for having spent like half a billion dollars lobbying over the last decades."

" All his president Obama's seeing an opening here because as we've said. The -- seem to be losing support from but not just this one company in California but what others including Republicans are calling. The cool kids the cool companies seem to be reading."

" Well I mean it can't overstate it mean that there's been a handful of defection which it does a pretty powerful. Group but I think -- The administration is trying to do now that the chamber that opposed remarks opposite agenda -- bills the predatory regulation of energy effort president is trying to marginalize a group. Look we don't need to use the chamber of what -- as we can draw on president Obama's appeal. An invite you know -- that many of whom are members particularly invite you directly to -- and and -- tree damage but we're going to get it."

" Well in fact we've talked to a CEOs of businesses who have been to the White House and they've been organized by groups like. The US climate action partnership. And the -- series CE RES which is founded the pros sustainability group business for innovative climate and energy policy. Now you say that this the US chamber of commerce is still pretty healthy still has. A lot of members but do you see a time when of the chamber might be replaced by one of these other groups."

" Well I think it'll -- that and that's gonna happen any time soon I mean it could be kind of established groups have an inertia especially here -- Washington where. Let it you know -- change groups -- good at and then make them back again do you think that it organizations survive it's gonna have to shift a little with that and that it will be interesting to -- So part did you have -- that up but. But it'll be interesting to see whether they do."

" Well it. As you've been saying some of the winds are coming from within you know so it's as this is changed to."

" Yes absolutely and you know the climate change being a really interesting example you covered. A company like apple very low debt -- And so what a company like that. Says look chamber -- is gonna quit. You know that -- has a real loud echo other businesses and I'm sure have vote. -- Thinking long and hard about -- and moved it."

" Michael -- White House correspondent for the Washington Post Michael thanks so much. Your -- your thoughts on this or any story to our web site here now dot org and click on contact us. To send an email they can -- right there on the homepage here and now like."

" Central America was a major front in a Cold War way back in the 1980s and ninety's. While it may be again the political stalemate in Honduras is being read as a proxy fight between the US on one side and Cuba and Venezuela on the other. In Honduras from -- utility assumed the presidency in June after -- military backed court. Ordered coup deposed the country's left leaning in cowboy hat wearing president whose -- on most ally yeah. The court claiming -- tried to change the constitution. To hold onto power. But some observers say is a -- as downfall has more to do with his support of the working man and he recently raised the minimum wage. Since the -- the Obama administration has suspended for an aid to hundreds in protest of alliance ouster. But -- sitting side by veterans of the Cold War have hired Washington lobbyists for the new Honduran government. And Republican senator Jim demand from South Carolina defied the administration. And made a trip to Honduras in support of the -- He's also holding up Obama's nominations for top diplomatic posts in the region. Daniel Erikson is senior associate at the inter American dialogue he's also author of the Cuba wars Fidel Castro of the US and the next revolution. He joins us from the studios of the Christian Science Monitor in Washington. -- all of this in perspective for us how big -- story is this."

" Well what's interesting is Hong terrorist really is not a central issue in US the foreign policy towards Latin America. However are in the last several months you really have seen this emerge into a major clash. But both between Republicans and Democrats in Washington. As well as having other actors in the region such as Brazil Venezuela's Hugo Chavez Fidel Castro and others jump into the game. All trying to shape perceptions of the outcome."

" We rim and reported that when one of these so Cold War warriors. Policymakers from the eighties. In support of the overthrow Salina. Organized a meeting for members of the Senate there was a surprise turn out one attendees saying I've never seen so many senators in one room to talk about Latin American my entire career."

" What is behind that I think where you have here is there's are a major level interest in Honduras because -- Elia who seem to view a very close ally of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Their 40 one's alive it was overthrown. There were many Republicans who dislike Hugo Chavez and their fourth sought the overthrow Salina it was a good thing. And they were surprised and chagrined to see the Obama administration. A step forward and say no the removal of an elected president by the military is no longer acceptable. And calling for his -- return as president of Honduras and so that really precipitated a major cleavage between Republicans and Democrats in Washington. In recent months that hasn't had major are repercussions in Honduras itself. Whereby the government revert to -- let me. Has found such steadfast support among some conservative leaders in the United States that he really doesn't see the need to make concessions."

" In fact he said Jim dement define John Kerry who are -- not to make a trip to visit the president that the US is not backing but he went anyway. -- why is the Obama administration. Backing -- outside of what you mentioned because didn't he as accused by the country's Supreme Court try to change the constitution to stay in power."

" It's clear that's why does not have clean hands on this. He is someone who did indeed try to overruled the supreme court of this country and allowing for -- business card is on a referendum it was in fact to non binding poll. About whether Honduras should hold a constitutional assembly to draft to new constitution and along the way he made a lot enemies however the fact is that -- woken up at 5 in the morning -- a Honduran military still in his pajamas placed on the military plane. And are forced out of the country. And I think that's really worthy objection is both on the part of on restoration and Latin America more broadly."

" Will mean miles alliance has since it's snuck back into the country he's being kept in the Brazilian embassy. Since last month we see pictures of him sleeping on -- With his cowboy hat over his face. And and the US as we said has held up any aid to Honduras. What's it doing to the country because this is the poorest in the and one of the force in in the world. How missile impacting this country."

" terrorists are like most of Central America is going through one of the worst economic recessions in recent memory and so clearly this is -- very much -- that the government -- at the same time Honduras is also had sunk its trade relations with other Central American countries disrupted. Because many of its neighbors have condemned the coup. What you've seen as a classic case for political instabilities really worsening economic situation. And of course that hurts the -- most."

" Only think's gonna happen presidential elections are scheduled for the end of November. We in -- in the -- is hoping to just hang on to the interim seat until then and in hopes that after the election. This'll. Blow over. What's your sense of what's gonna happen."

" Time is not on the -- side. The fact is that you do have the elections coming up at the end of November. -- and at that point if there are held -- ladies term draw to an and then three very hard to make the case. Force a -- to return to to the presidency I just be clear. It would constitutionally he can't continue into the next term. Yes it's critically and so neither Mitchell -- nor is a liar would be allowed to our remaining in the presidency past January when the new -- due to be inaugurated."

" And does the US just accept the results of the election and say never mind -- husband. Stoppage -- they do what we think this goes."

" Right now by declaring that the United States and other countries in the region will not recognize the Honduran elections. Of this has been used as a source of a leverage over Mitchell Eddy however once the elections have been held. It's not clear whether in the US interest to continue punishing the successor government in that they the elections offer on the one hand a potential solution to the -- crisis. On the other hand they could prolong it further."

" Daniel Erickson senior associate at the nonpartisan inter American dialogue think tank in Washington author of the Q borrowers Fidel Castro the US in the next revolution. And didn't get and that quick question about Cuba as we said some seed this debate over Honduras is sort of a proxy debate of Cuba and Venezuela. President Obama has eased restrictions on Cuban Americans traveling and sending money to Cuba. But he's also said that the trade embargo should stay in place until Cuba releases political prisoners and improves human rights. Is there any thing that's happening in Honduras that's perhaps tied to. Changing some of those stands on Cuba."

" US policy towards Latin America remains very messy and I think that while the engagement with Cuba is seen as a positive step -- much of Latin America. At the same time there's a real sense of unease. About how this situation Honduras has escalated and I think it's what -- soon as it's very difficult even today in 20094. Republicans and Democrats in Washington. To come together for a bipartisan defense of democracy in the hemisphere. The fact is the -- intentions of the Cold War still with us and still are dominating much of the political debate --"

" America. Dennis Erickson thanks so much served reviewed here. As we head into the break here's a couple of stories in the pipeline here and now we look at a minute Eric Carr's legacy she's not getting -- Hollywood treatment. LLC with animal psychologist Irene peppered -- about her late friend Alex is talking parents and her current BC expects. Had this week tomorrow look at the secret lives of classical composers from -- list was a bit of a ladies man to be Cheney. Who stole his church's organ pipes and sold them for scrap. To know that. That's tomorrow second minute here and now to."

" Some news stories were filing for use. The Supreme Court today decided to hear the case of the -- writers a group of Chinese Muslims. Being held at the Guantanamo Bay detention center even though the panic on no longer considers them a threat. The Obama administration had urged the court to stay out of the case saying diplomatic efforts were under way. To find a home for the weaker it's but now the court will hear their case early next year. And Dutch politician geared guilders who has outraged Muslims by comparing the Koran to Adolf Hitler's -- Will address Temple University students tonight despite protests Muslim students at temple plan to protest the event. Which was organized by a student group called purpose."

" Question what mothers see her young children. When she knows she's about to --"

" I'm -- of -- will be around to open and war nor."

" That's frank -- 25 years old now reading a letter written to him and his three Brothers by the mother -- Farrell. Before she died of aids in 1989."

" Things are happy. They couldn't Merlin can."

" But somehow -- words were lost in the painful years after her death until the boy's father Ronald dug them out of storage just recently. Theirs is a story about a family that might have been in except for -- photojournalist David binder tells -- in his new documentary calling my children. -- spent nearly every day of two years with skill and Ronald and the boys docking in their lives in the Boston neighborhood of Mission -- until her death. He returned to update their story the result as the new documentary and David joins us in the studio with more welcome home -- You know we see in the film pictures that you took back than in the early eighties these beautiful -- you know. Affiliates -- struggles but it still seemed like such a family. What do you frying. In almost two decades later."

" The family in -- death had disintegrated. Copiers past and so Ronald father. Tried his best to maintain his immediate single father for children. And through that process. The kids twenty years plus are now all young adults with this common. Tragedy in their lives."

" Where's the family now we understand that Ronald dad is an assistant teacher in the area. The oldest son Ronald junior was recently released from prison he was held their awaiting arraignment on arms possession charges but those charges. Have since been -- What about the other --"

" Frank who's the signal this is going to return to college towns -- after a year or so at Boston College. And the twins canyon -- are in Boston Kenny is married and -- is engaged -- they are expecting their first round of."

" And at least one of them I think it was skinny. Angry. About this angry still."

" He's a little tough guy you know when he might put on a little more than he is."

" Frank on the other hand the second oldest son entering new tough cannot infect a staggering moment in the film. Really has a little found it's -- picture and he's so -- with tears falling off his face. As he reads the letter that we just heard those sentences we just heard you looked -- the united. And notice then. But he did know at some point he had heard -- at some point and."

" His father was surprised to hear that frankly T he never saw of that letter until that moment. His father remembers that he showed -- a letter. But unfortunately frankly too young to remember it and his father. Can have a good realization that perhaps the -- too young and Ronald. Didn't revisit that with frank Wright because Ronald her father."

" began to succumb to drug and alcohol problems that kids went to live with -- mom. Flew more about her -- usage you spent his time with her she probably contracted. Aids through a blood transfusion for cervical cancers in 83."

" What was she like when you met her early eighties she was a devoted mother doting on her children in the heightened awareness that she had that she had. Increasingly little time spent with them was all that she was focused on."

" She didn't go to the hospital as much as doctors wondered too because she wants from time indicated yeah her she she and her doctor became very close and he stopped trying after awhile to. Yeah encourage her to stay in the hospital because he knew he would lose that conversation. And Nash he came home as much as possible. Despite pain and even attentive care to be their kids getting ready for -- birthday parties while cleaning up catheters. Were ever took."

" At a time when we should say the stigma around aids. Was was enormous this was before Magic Johnson who is a market. Did she tell you that she was concerned about the -- staying again."

" She did and in the letter that she left her husband she tells him that she knows that she can count on him to keep the family together and and to -- to maintain dreams and hopes that they had together for their kids."

" But he was furious at. The hospital that gave her blood transfusion. At god for allowing her to get sick let's listen to a little of him describing now how he felt and."

" I would. Think you know how I can go down below what city hospital."

" Well how want to find out who gave them polite and what I would consider. But how to line know that depression and be able to -- it really was a -- using drugs Howland noted they're pressing game but it."

" Can -- at distinguishing. And this -- didn't help when he took up drugs alcohol. He said he didn't do. You with the family that's right when you can photographing them that after she -- he went deep into alcohol and drugs and even left his kids home to go out and Celtics. I trying to. The changes I want to get -- pain she. Because she it's not. So do reminder that can't have been good for the --"

" You know he became an instant single father of four little boys and he did the best you couldn't. For whatever was a year or two after he lost the love of his life. And the lost it he just couldn't do it anymore he had no personal time to grieve. And he felt as though he deserved all the pain. That -- went through."

" Well and he didn't do it feel instructed him to do until it may might be too late she children your strong men get help if you need help he didn't. And now though it seems as if he is responding to those words of almost two decades ago. Did it seem T use that when you went back this time that. That was his intent to try to bring his -- that together to try to help them understand what happened in their family yeah sure yeah eighties it's a long process of him coming in terms of all of that as it's a long process for kids to come to terms with the loss of their mother. What's your sense of what this moments gonna do for them."

" That's the question we don't know do we. Franks an amazing guy frank at five years old is the man who took care of his mother retain his father was who -- his older brother was in school. And his younger Brothers were two and a half years old. And frank grew into -- a caretaker of the entire family. And he's gonna get back to college and his girlfriend just graduated from Boston university school public company that masters and I guess I expect great things from him."

" And even though this horrible pain we see him in as if he mean he really he -- sounds as if he didn't know that his mother. -- this much he didn't know these words even though he might have heard them when he was a little kid for."

" He actually has always known and he's he has been the most connected to his mother because of that time they spent together -- his five years old. And it's all validation am reading that letter and hearing his mother talked to him like that. He's gotten that confirmation of everything that he spelled in connection to his mother."

" It's dated binder his new documentary film is calling my children. He tells of her father and for boys who lost the mother -- aids in 1980s. The film recently won first prize for best documentary short. Put the Athens international film and video festival and the rocks through film festival here in Massachusetts. David thanks so much for telling -- about 200 thanks for your interest."