Title: Here and Now for Thursday, October 22, 2009

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" I'm running young it's here and now we start today with a deeper look at the debate over the death penalty in Texas. Where this week a former governor said he's turned against the death penalty that's political suicide for a politician taxes. We're gonna speak to former governor waited a minute but first questions about sitting governor Rick Perry. Governor Perry has only commuted one death penalty sentence 200 condemned criminals have been executed under his watch and now. The 2004 execution of Cameron Willingham. Is back in the headlines he was convicted of killing his three young daughters by sending his house on fire. But then an arson expert for Willingham defense team wrote an eleventh hour report casting doubt on Willingham scaled. And there are questions as to whether governor Perry considered it and whether he then later tried to protect himself by firing members of the panel that had planned to review the case. Lisa Olson is an investigative reporter for the Houston Chronicle Lisa you've reviewed all the death penalty cases since governor Perry took office. Eight years. Because of the attention paid recently to the 2004 Willingham case let's start there -- what happened."

" Willingham was convicted as America added three daughters to wear two years old and like -- planned. He died in the house fire just a few days before Christmas 1991 he is senate and the house as well and -- twists and turns. He was an unusual character kind of a profane man who is disliked by some of the people investigated the fire. And suspicion turned on hand and -- the made evidence against him was arson investigation. At that time investigators got that they had evidence that he had the court probable liquid in the house that actually -- decided to build this great little daughters. -- after years of his life should add some people and his family were trying to get an -- expert named doctor Gerald Hurst. You look at the evidence he's against -- and opinion for parents came and just four days -- he -- occasionally that. And it hurt basically discarded that pretty evident he's against Willingham and that it was based on outdated technique. And basically wrong assumptions that had been made by folks that didn't have. The same kind of training that -- he's a Ph.D. Now the only hand was executed. Even though that report was tracked to governor Perry's office just a few minutes. Before he was executed and that thing that I was reporting on in which we still don't know if whether or not to carry credit before -- gosh I'm willing to hand sex education."

" When you sit just a few minutes before was it 88 minutes before his right."

" Believe in agriculture climate he would send popular governor Perry along with the submarine at the expert opinion. Three days before the execution -- request -- a reprieve for additional time. To develop and it isn't evident based on the new information. To -- had and letters this that this report without parents. The -- itself was not fact that governor Sasha from Tel 88 minutes before the execution what we don't know. It whether governor Perry ever read it. Or if the attorney he was assigned to review the clemency request is provided -- primary after he read it pathetic effort."

" Will spokespeople for governor Perry have says that he denied a reprieve because. All the courts agreed that the -- report was no more than an opinion and didn't merit reopening the case."

" But has he hasn't said anything else about this case."

" Yeah it's just contained in a recent press conferences. Where he can't Willingham on monster. -- murdered his children and he made it clear he has pointed out about the -- of wielding hand. But he -- clarify whether he would help correct report before approving the execution. Everything that's being taken seriously. Because of the basket case that came up just a few months after Willingham sex education. There was another man and interpreted actually been under a fairly even longer than Willingham -- current -- it will lift. Purdue was exonerated. And released from -- In October of 2004. Based on the came taxpayers get excited and very similar are -- evidence in the case against -- less -- well it had been. Their first my -- it's seventeen years that that's why. Get information about Willingham case is getting more attention."

" It also brings us to other cases in Texas because you look deeply into Perry's record. Texas along with seven other states uses a state board of pardons and paroles to review requests for clemency. But the members of the border all appointed by the governor. And does it work -- automatically reviewed cases."

" Manatee County the governor had his -- tickets for countries like he could have and allowing him take his state case to market anything else is interviewed. By the poor kids -- continent he requested file and let it things accent that was that. The last -- hundred executions they're at least fifty cases in which the word. Did not review any any requests for comment at all."

" Do they have to see --"

" That they don't they apply and protect their data exception under the Texas public information. Actually the port of -- and controls and they released very little information about Derek it's stated that. Actually just say if they approved it didn't approve a request for clemency that they'll say apply and that they usually that by hacks they don't -- on the the same day they don't meet -- They send in their whenever paper keep information that's comes to their decisions individually."

" know this is raised a lot of eyebrows people have been quoted in your report saying -- I think if you're. Deciding whether person should live or die it may be lot of meat or at least have a conference call that they facts -- individual. Votes and they don't work as a group and you the government can overturn them if they make a decision and he has done."

" Bishop toward recommends. Giving fans want a -- you're meeting their sense of life which went -- comments. Terry can decide he didn't want to do and in fact he had. One -- involving a very severely mentally ill man named Kelsey Paterson. Do in the and Terry decided did not deserve to have it done -- commuted to life."

" So to be clear he he disagreed with his board there but in his one commutation governor Perry agreed with his advisory board. When they recommended that a getaway driver arrived recently from murder being let off death row."

" Now -- secretary decided to meet patent and sentenced to life. Because he didn't particularly care of its -- he was tried jointly with the actual guns and."

" Governor Perry also fired the chair and two members of the state forensics science commission. Who are about to hold hearings into that 2004 Willingham case -- horrible arson case."

" Kerry would say you're -- that fire ring that he actually gets -- played these members because there in terms had expired they were his appointees. And that a -- now has been -- postponed at least. By the fact that the governor among other people replace the chairman and Vivendi chairman said he's not quite familiar with that yet and -- stand a meeting where they were to have. Received -- reports."

" Well that could be read by some that you replaced one person who's gonna hold a hearing with -- another who's not going to. And I'm just wondering since that is the dean of the way it has filtered out to some of the major newspapers in New York Times so. This morning how is that being received back in Texas."

" I think that the Willingham case and the -- that there have been several expert opinions I have questioned the evidence in the case of have made people talk about the case to regardless of what their opinions on the death penalty -- generated information and opinions about. Whether or not the process. Treated him fairly whether or not -- evidence that's he's just taxes. Today is better or worse than it was back then there's been a lot of controversy."

" This Lisa Olson investigative reporter for the Houston Chronicle. Lisa thanks so much for talking north about it. Well one of those people in Texas with questions about the death penalty is former Texas governor Mark White. Formally a staunch supporter of capital punishment in fact he ran on his tough stance. As attorney general in 1982. White represented the state in the first case after the death penalty was reinstated. And then as governor he oversaw nineteen executions from 19831987. Now governor weight has changed his mind parkway joins us from the studios of KP FT Pacifica radio in Houston. Governor why why are you changing room."

" Well I think we've had several changes one is we recognized -- of criminal justice system maybe. More fragile. Ever imagined. We've had changed in the science. Since the death published a -- reenacted here in Texas. We've had several people that have been released from our -- from the coast DNA evidence showed that they were innocent of the ground. Even after having served multiple -- so you can imagine. In an irreversible situation such as electrocution how awful it would be for society of civil society to. Carry out next Q can win the avalanche. Would show that the virtual junction."

" You talk about the science and some people are saying that that's at the heart of the Willingham case it. You may be new arson investigation science."

" And -- three's enough like collect social legislature is an appropriate time to take up that issue where we can get the study and found that what the cutting edge such it is today impartial investigations and other investigations and."

" Well that you cited the case of Michael -- this as a child sex offender who is convicted of killing actually -- down. But was exonerated DNA testing showed it was someone else."

" That shift points out while we need to be more up to date in her. Testing and how we should be treating these most critical cases -- my search to reevaluate the death penalty altogether very expensive. It's not -- the current it obviously didn't deter the forward from what people we have on death row rebellion taxes. I thought it determined it was appropriate punishment for the most -- crunch. But then again you can also just found life without parole opening a pretty tough punishment isn't doing the death penalty. Well I think to -- legislature needs to review whether. It -- shall that we can trust of the human frailties of people who hold public office."

" You ask you about that because you we're sitting governor when there are nineteen executions. Right when you know have this new awareness you're hearing of these cases Michael Blair -- exonerated. Other cases where we know that people were given the death penalty and it turned out later that they were innocent innocent people were killed how much of the channel does that give you."

" I was in many ways I guess fortunate that no wonder my term in office there were options they were forever urged that they did do decorum. In addition of the fact I have special counsel who reviewed the details of balls convictions. Because I was order ornament certainly there was -- good. Lawyer defending this person is the proper appealed for taking that there were no oversight. I'm satisfied that no portion was electrocuted it was and while I was governor and definitely be more good fortune good luck than anything else would you know you shouldn't have something that important but it --"

" We understand and in Texas. Being against the death penalty may not be a politically easy thing week. We know that there Rick Perry has an election coming up he's running against Kay Bailey Hutchinson she's already. Saying that his actions and may be replacing people on commission that we're gonna review a death penalty case. Give the death penalty opponents ammunition she's saying. That he's he's hurt the issue of death penalty which she's."

" Wrong and what he's done I think he is done what he would view as honorable improper thawing -- noticing his opponent is for any area well. That's politics in a campaign. I suspect that most good condition Texas dentist actually a reflection Democrat that republic will be supported the death penalty. I should shift the legislature. Should it is the next session review is an improper punishment for our creme I always have thought it was but now. I think it's more important to balance that against the potentially you -- and and she -- my liberal think we might be over the panel include monitor them pay enough attention to that feature."

" Mark White former democratic governor of Texas who's a change under the death penalty will insist on support and now he's got a lot of questions. Governor wait thanks so much -- statements. -- And by the way this Saturday anti death penalty activists will gather in Austin Texas for the tenth annual march to abolish the death penalty. -- culminates in the rally featuring speeches from three now exonerated. Former death row inmates. As well as individuals involved in the case of camera Willingham that's an ammunition. Is executed for the death of his children in a fire. That some arson experts now -- may not have been said."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to survivors are now speaking out about what happened in that sweat lodge ceremony in Sedona Arizona earlier this month. That sent 21 people to the hospital and ultimately left three people dead. The survivors say that halfway through the two hour ceremony people in the sweat lodge already weakened by a 36 -- food and water fast. Began to pass out and vomit. But they say that James Arthur -- guru who organized the 9000 dollars spiritual warrior retreat. Urged them to stay inside and fight to the pain. Now one of those survivors Sidney Spencer who sat between two people who died says she is suing we -- her attorney Ted Schmidt Ted. A lot of people have been through sweat lodges why has your client Sidney Spencer decided to --"

" Well I think the thing that -- paper the most cunning and essentially caused her to call me. Was. Mr. ray -- his staff's. Approach. Following this and disaster."

" They held a conference call with all of the survivors what do they say."

" Well it was it was very interesting it was people were encouraged to. Disgust they're experienced. But it culminated. In. Mr. great staff explaining that shortly after. -- keep folks have left in this site have been clear they brought a -- or. To the site who -- they claimed able. To make contact with the spirits. Of these two individuals who would -- it. In the sweat lodge. And it that they had communicated -- spirits and learned. That they were happy. That they were enjoying. Being in this other world and had chosen not to return."

" We understand that -- declines."

" Well I think between that and the fact that mr. ray has refused. To accept any responsibility for this. -- which he decided something needed to be done."

" Malicious in history has hired his own investigative team to try to determine what went wrong but what to chip clients saying happened in -- sweat -- and again to remind people -- it's been described it to. An enclosed area rocks on a fire outside of it being. You made very hot the rocks are continuously brought into the lives and water thrown on them. To create this stifling steam. What did she say started to happen as people realize they were in trouble."

" Well this could be it was totally dark side she could she in fact was not even aware. That the people on each side of her we're in trouble. She was totally concentrated. Aren't trying. To. To survive this ordeal ourselves. Mean they had been instructed to look inside themselves this is going to be difficult it was going to be very hot and that in order to. Baptist challenge they needed to break through the barrier to place fought. In two. Stick it out."

" Will we hear from another survivor Beverly -- who also is speaking now that. People did start screaming out that they couldn't take it that they needed help one man lifted a flap and crawled out and what did race saving them."

" Well but -- I I believe. That Sydney probably had already passed out. She did. Here. At least one individual. Say they needed to get out of air she heard mr. -- say no no you must not he must stick it out. It's very clear to these folks that's in the absolute worst case scenario if they had believed. They were not permitted to leave except. When the flap was opened on the watch to allow for bringing more hot rock can."

" Yeah."

" She she was drug out by another woman."

" We'll have barely burned in the other survivor also said that looking back. She realizes they had had no water. There was no ventilation there were no safety tips provided. Not appropriate medical care no we do understand there was some medical care outside. The alliance but it would say attentive people who say. Look you go on their retreat. And you accept responsibility for what happens on that retreat."

" The sweat lodge was spot on people nobody knew they were doing that until. Literally minutes before they see it."

" Did anyone ask. When they came to there to did they have to fill out a medical forearm release of liability."

" General and released. One but he didn't say anything at all about sweat lodges or anything at this of the kind."

" That's Tucson attorney Ted Schmidt representing Sidney Spencer -- of two survivors of that sweat lodge incidentally now speaking out. Ted thanks for speaking -- not."

" You got it."

" Listen she's better she's got memory problems he's got neurological problems it's."

" Thanks so much for speaking. -- briefly noted -- Hensley covering the story for the Arizona Republic JJ. We know there's a homicide investigation under way but we understand James Arthur ray is not charged."

" He has -- from speaking with people at the county attorney's office it sounds like they anticipate getting. The results of that investigation early next week everyone's waiting right now for the medical Examiner's reports on the first two victims who died in needs some lunch. And then the carry trade deficit so don't make a determination and wondered. -- says negligent homicide or are something worse or perhaps something."

" Well and we have two survivors coming forward now describing horrific scenes inside of you know people throwing up and yelling that they can't do it asking for help had any supporters. Come forward who in the lodge."

" Not from any allies have talked to some people who have been through this spiritual warrior retreat. Has tears were still very supportive to Ames strain and talk about how all this is one of the sort of hallmarks of taxes program he pushes you beyond. The limits do you think you can go."

" An assistant to sit sweat lodges walking on hot -- this is a part of a lot of retreat work. Is -- thinking that he ran it in perfectly lure that -- something in general wrong with sweat lodges."

" I think the thinking is. -- that he tried to do it with too many people there word maybe as many as sixty people in the structure that's 415 square feet most of them are done what twelve maybe fifteen people so is it. Most people and that community are under the impression that he distracted. To do too much and maybe -- little overboard."

" TJ Hensley report for the Arizona Republic JJ thank you. The king it was still to come today with any of the protest outside BBC headquarters where. A right wing guest is about to make an appearance on a popular show there that's still can today. And tomorrow on here now Emilia Earhart vanished but never disappeared we'll look at her enduring appeal that's tomorrow. You're now."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. IC EA Boston dot org."

" Congressman Barney Frank chair of the house financial services committee. Announced today that his committee has voted to approve a new consumer financial protection agency a victory for the Obama administration. Industry groups objected to the new agency they say consumers are already protected by existing agencies regulation and the new agency will harm consumers by adding regulation and decreasing competition. But supporters of the board say it got watered down well it is moving closer to reality and it comes on the heels of reports that. President Obama's pays our will cut pay for senior executives. I companies receiving government bailouts. And also capped salaries -- O'Leary is the Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV let's check in with her. -- the consumer finance protection agency the brainchild of Elizabeth Warren but as we said big push back from business so what helped push it through at least the house."

" Well at least that is very simple party for. Frank and he -- very muscular Lee. And he knows what can move it through the house and it got to -- from that committee vote -- it passed largely along party lines 39 to 29 today. How will look for more exemptions to be built into that but. He really took what he wanted. Moved its route that is something that you have to look at when he or committee chairman who has a very good grasp on the issues that sometimes confused other Obama."

" But it's still not that big compromise and for instance the administration and a lot of consumer advocates had wanted banks and other financial institutions to offer so called. Plain Vanilla products you know just. Fixed mortgages with paper you can read low interest low fee credit cards. And and frank sydor early on he is willing to compromise on net so for instance is the plain Vanilla product in this version her house."

" It went away you'll and you'll see some some fights over things like -- it took the thirty year mortgage that was the way it is well that. Biggest exemptions here came and perhaps not surprisingly from smaller bank. Small credit union -- these -- who generally have pretty strong relationships with. They're members of congress -- and it can pick up the phone and talk to their members after. They got a lot of exceptions. Even here still think you're gonna see some pretty confusing financial products for consumers even though the idea here is -- left --"

" Just ask you one quick question for instance the exemptions we understood include retailers real estate brokers so does this mean for instance the -- credit cards that are issued by retailers. Won't be in a regulated by or closely observed by this. A new agency."

" Yet like that one I Nokia and store credit card -- happening we had hours of debate about this this week this go to. Pushed back because members were really going into the week without. A Stewart lined. Credit and what that means that aren't expected carve out to make exceptions for retailers also -- for auto dealers they are exempt from that that got a lot of push back from consumer critique -- Auto dealers were number one on their complaint list from consumer."

" And the idea was to keep an eye on credit cards it charged excessive fees etc. well. Well we have you we just wanna ask quickly about the other thing that's happening which isn't the same time the administration is preparing to announce a major cut. In the compensation of top exit exit firms that received government bail out this has been heavily leaked and executives at firms affected have been quoted off the record as saying there in shock. But critics say that what they're seeing is that you know it seems as if this is only gonna effect about a 175 people in seven firms show is it's symbolic."

" It's like four at the big extra outlet talking about firm -- that. You know their ballot for it can exceptional taxpayer money would be dead in the water may have taken a credit to Justin -- of course that's the argument that would app. Absolutely be dead in the water 182 billion dollars to AIG. You look at Citi Bank of America. These companies to go to received upwards of forty billion dollars -- because it can. Tickets can say they would be shocked that they can still get multimillion dollar pay package is absolutely many of them can't. But. Be that the real target list it is only seven companies that wanted to go after the big."

" And what they did was cut their -- senior executive pay by more than half in cap salaries. At 500000. Dollars coming up a conversation about that -- O'Leary Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV thank you so much. Well a few thoughts on this or anything on the program don't -- would love to hear from you -- and now dot org just click on contact us. To send. -- and now."

" Yeah."

" Those -- protesters trying to break into the BBC television center in London today. They're demonstrating against the appearance of right wing political leader on the network's flagship political debate -- Appearances a first for the far right and all white British National Party and its leader Nick Griffin he has referred to president Barack Obama as an afrocentric an racist bigot. And he's also warned of the risk of a civil war in Britain sparked by racial tension connected to immigration. But he says that racist and neo Nazi elements have been banished from his party. This reaction to the TV appearance he says is giving his party unprecedented publicity and -- Rudy. Is the BBC British affairs correspondent he joins us now from the BBC television studio where the program question time is being taped. Rob we can hear of these protesters behind you what is singing."

" Well I shall take. Stopped at the end game the BNP is an -- home teams matched the BNP that's their slogan that's been -- out here all afternoon. I have to say. As of now the numbers are relatively small a few hundred but it is early days yet I think many people are expected to arrive here that have to work up to college in many cases many students to. That hoping -- calls to blockade the building and prevented the BNP leader arriving all the numbers they have -- Obama is very unlikely."

" We'll keep some context here is this -- we -- this is a first for their appearance. Where there's some legal issues this is a party than it ever been banned."

" And this party has never been found no -- legal policy that's the essence of the defense case. It's illegal car to its guns it elections that now house team members of the European. Parliament as well the BBC -- claimed over office said today that if everything case was sent to -- it should be debated in parliament. The political censorship cannot be outsourced. To the BBC or anyone else. I have to say even within the government. It's a very divisive decision -- Gordon Brown the prime minister said today that it enables you to expose the began people won't talk. Racist and sectarian politics. Abbott said that the program should essentially go ahead at -- that you should be challenged democratic -- read arguments. Happy to -- the -- secretary those as the BBC's decision stinks he's done his best trying challenging it is written team. The governing bodies of the BBC to try to get even pretend they decided last night to go ahead."

" Cool but what about Nick Griffin the leader of the party hasn't he even convicted of inciting racial hatred for articles. That denied the Holocaust he had a traffic that back in the late ninety's."

" Absolutely bad now trying to to bury that costs but it's very real for the opponents of the the DN PDA today that's what's driving. At the -- got they have their roots. In the neo fascist movements. Here in Europe. They used to campaign around. Protecting rights for whites -- will direct -- boots and fists that was said in the early nineties after. One of that City Council election victories. There's no denying it that tried to put the days -- of that although boots is being used to pull it under the jacket behind them. Anna -- respectable politicians in suits but of course the very essence of that political appealed. Two very small number of -- disenchanted and angry white working class -- is. Is all about racial politics it's all about the politics of identity. And they seek to betray the white working class people just themselves victims of racism which for most people of the population is going to be laughable."

" Well in 2000 Nick Griffin came here to the US to address a group called American friends of the B and -- British National Party. The group he was addressing including David duke who is and leader of the Ku Klux Klan but here's what Nick Griffin says about his party and who it represents."

" We aren't giving a voice so -- very notion of white people who felt he is that we -- policies. I'm not interested in and that's all there and that's an ethnic minorities. -- for the last sufferers is a felt themselves and tremendously. By a racist minority within the nation communities."

" and what is Nick Griffin in your mind appealing to especially when it comes to the hot button issues of immigration in Europe."

" Well he simply wants let's solve it's it will -- cutting back dramatically any -- voluntary repatriation. He says now but of course. A black people left is of course not vote for Europeans. Creation back to that guarantees of our team originally his -- and it's that he days wanted. Forced repatriation so it's an attempt to clean up the image but that's the essence of it. He says tonight's appearance will be on question time will be what he told the political slug sports but he makes no bones about it he says it that propelled his policy. Into the big time. That's what many people think hey yeah that lost the political parties saying -- got to take -- arguments. It could lead to what many see isn't globalization. All of -- extreme views."

" School diplomas questioned the panel for tonight's show that everyone behind you -- protesting. Includes a even Marcy and now this is a Conservative Party member of the House of Lords. But she's also -- British born Muslim of Pakistani origin and Nick Griffin has been quoted as saying that Islam is a wicked vicious -- But do you expect to happen on this panel tonight."

" Well I doubled trying to second guess how you'll handle those obvious questions that everyone expects to be placed. But yes -- accidentally -- Rossi is on the Hubble has its Jack's role of the justice secretary. One time foreign secretary you made over the foreign secretary. In front of the Iraq War. Pat he would have represented a very makes racist and a mixed race constituency. And a lot is riding on his shoulders but there's also virus policy to take the arguments for old Democrats have put them. Only agenda it's not going to be easy I didn't did you get myself is that every slippery character to interview. -- things you don't expect because we're not used to -- don't democratic politicians. And when he comes back with certain views that Blackhawks. Team she comes back and not least on the program which is -- a studio audience where politicians in the sense. Who runs down to that audience that there is that playing to do audience might well flexible that are."

" This -- BC's British affairs correspondent at the BBC where protesters are gathering. Ahead of tonight's broadcast of the BC's question time program by the way we'll have a link to question time our website here and now dot org. Rob thank you so much for taking time to talk to us about it. Yeah. And then now this -- about two items here in the US that hopefully don't signal a trend. The mayor of -- city Arizona is asking a City Council to apologize for describing himself at a council meeting as just a little bit Jewish. The topic was the outgoing city manager's contract and how much remained to be paid when. -- Barnes referred to himself as just a little bit Jewish. Later he said he understood his remarks could be seen as derogatory but he meant -- giveaway that Jewish people were pretty good with their money. We'll then there were the two Republican Party chairs from South Carolina James homer and it -- Merlin who wrote an opinion piece this weekend in the orange -- times and Democrat newspaper. Praising the state senator Jim demand for his position against congressional earmarks they wrote. They're just saying that the Jews who are wealthy got that way not by watching dollars but instead by taking care of the -- the dollars taking care of themselves. Where some see that is available is seeing Jews are cheap. And to apologize to you listen to hearing now. Once seemed to Sesame Street really played well prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and other detention centers were tortured. How about this march against the pigs by the Nine Inch Nails."

" Coalition a musicians including Nine Inch Nails Pearl Jam and Roseanne cash. Is demanding that the federal government turn over the list of songs that were."

" Blasted during detainee interrogations. Their backing the national security archive an independent research group in Washington seeking to declassify. All government records relating to the use of music. During interrogations. Other songs reportedly used include queen's we are the champions Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA. And Don McLean's American high. A White House spokesperson says music is no longer used as an instrument of torture. -- can be Halloween and so let's consider a few questions. Armed black cats really bad luck. What are our spines guilty only when we want to scary movie -- a movie that we're wolf. Since -- and -- and and route next and they need. -- And is there really such -- thing -- your world. Steven James O'Meara has answered these and other questions in the new young adult book are you freed yet does science behind scary stuff. A Mary is an award winning astronomer and former staff writer for sky and telescope is most columnist for astronomy magazine. He joins us from the studios of Pacifica radio group in Hilo Hawaii. Steve and let's just go through that list why you are -- tingle. We watch a scary movie you write about what are called mirror neurons these brain cells that fire up will we see something that made us afraid in the past."

" This is a fascinating. New episode and scientific research and with -- discovering is even monetary. -- signals a visual signals. Smell. The mirror neurons or something that Telus. About experiences we've had in the past so that we can share emotions in that works in conjunction with of course the brains and big -- Which is sort of the terror center. And it alerts us like when you saw the chainsaw all leather face picking up the chain so what we know he's not going out to -- Christmas trees and who's coming after you."

" Well you -- explain and another chapter at what happens to us physically when we have this chain of events. Our heart pumps and it goes from pumping about a gallon of -- admit to five times that."

" It's a part of us feeling fear and what happens is our brain prepares our body. Floor fight or flee your lungs expand to bring more air in case you have to run. Our eyes -- that were more sensitive or hearings peaked so it's just say I've chemical reaction that's going into the body."

" you say did the tiny muscles attached to our hair titan in our hair does stand apply."

" Yes it does -- that's a very primitive -- like we don't know we needed anymore. But let's say in insect the poisonous insect with climbing up your leg while might hear -- stiffening. In the muscles being tightened them we can actually deal would be more sensitive to the tiny field and in -- on her body."

" And by the way in the chapter you illustrate this physical reaction each -- story of the school master abroad crane who. Riding his horse at night comes across the headless horseman -- she's just an enemy Washington. -- yes to some other myths -- idea come from that a black cat was bad luck I'm so tired of keeping nine locked up. And this time of year."

" As far as I can tell from the research that I've done the bad luck comes from the belief that black cats where there which is familiar. Familiar being an animal which in historically has been anything from a bird but usually it's it's now portrayed as a cat. And of course a black cat meant that it was the occult power. Of the black rich. That would be associated with the black cat."

" But in that fact and researchers found that. Black cats may actually be good."

" That's right they have a specific team which -- helps them to fight disease is so they stay longer in fact we have the same gene. It then our own bodies and it may actually help us lead to anecdotes."

" But -- every system vampires. The idea of a vampire there aren't any but the idea of a human vampire. May come because of a group of rare blood diseases."

" Yeah park area and it's that it's a fascinating disease and it's one where people who are exposed to sunlight so there. Photo sensitive it can actually cause the skin to boil them blessed are so they only -- at night."

" I was Terrell we've seen stories about whole families for the children can only play. At night when it's dark."

" And not only that but it turns their teeth read so looks like they've been fighting summons and neck in their urine is red so -- looks like they've been drinking blood. And so while these park area victims I'm not vampire so brown -- might have gotten his idea for Dracula from studying port here."

" Now back when there was far less understanding than there is even now. Well but anyway there are no vampires and garlic can't protect you from the vampires that there aren't."

" That's right but it will keep mosquitoes away because it's covering the scent of blood so mosquitoes don't smell the blood they smelled italics overnight interest in Kenya."

" Moving nine where Wilson might be another illness that. Led to the -- of we will."

" Yes that's right essentially -- two types this. I can't repeat and there's a secretary -- like can't repeat as a split personality disorder. And it just means that the person may act out like -- may even run around chasing animals and -- them. But as opposed to -- kosice which is an actual genetic disorder which here covers most of the body. And so they look like a wolf how -- to him put the two together you would definitely have -- wearable."

" Or at least inspiring in someone's imagination writer's imagination. Couple brief ones. You read about the natural causes behind spooky house noises air trapped in a radiator. A change in humidity but do you break that Canadian neuroscientist Michael pursing her. Police that there are haunted houses."

" Yes he's done electro magnetic studies. Regions around -- haunted houses and found that there are fluctuations in the electromagnetic. Wave patterns. And these may be due from anything from underground minerals. Or the even solar activities such as fluctuations and sunspot activity."

" Or as people say it could be a ghost."

" Oh that's right and in the book I mentioned that there's one thing for sure until scientists find the answer. The believers won't give up ago."

" And well and those magnetic field fluctuations. Make you feel as if there's presents."

" Yeah -- terror below may be. Sensitive enough to pick up these faint vibration you're not mentally aware of it but then these vibrations can actually cause you to feel the presence. Someone around you and they may also create hallucinations depending on the strength of the field."

" Well and finally. He spoke with people of being clinically dead. And return to life. And some of those sensations that they describe. May -- you think when you are quote -- did you see deceased relatives and friends and who wouldn't in their heart want to in so maybe that's why in your mind you do. But what those people of clinically done in the revived who talked about the white light."

" Yet the light light is fascinating phenomenon that is probably. Has to do with the brain losing oxygen and then the darkening of the field of view from your vision so. You essentially see a receding. Light then. When oxygen is restored you start to see a bright light growing within the field so you haven't illusion that you moving toward it."

" And those people who have the out of body experience they. Feel they drifting on the ceiling above looking down at themselves how would they know what to see."

" Yeah well you know of course this is the beauty of this particular book is that I actually just bring. Cases of scientific investigation that may explain some of the phenomena but I always leave -- open this is part of a wonderful. Aspect of studying these super natural phenomenon through the eyes of science is that it's still a lot to learn."

" That's Steven James a -- author of are you -- the science behind scary stuff. He's an award winning astronomer former staff writer for sky and telescope and columnist for astronomy magazine. Stephen -- was for taught us thank you Robin."