Title: Here and Now for Friday, October 23, 2009

" Support for this podcast comes from visa signature the card that gives you instant access to dozens of perks. Details that visa dot com forward slash signature. -- now is a production of --"

" UB UR Boston in association with the BBC world service and PRI I'm running young it's here and now was it the flight attendant the Associated Press is reporting that a flight attendant. May have alerted to Northwest Airlines pilots that their plane overshot its destination in Minneapolis airport by 150 miles. Federal officials are investigating Wednesday night's."

" in which -- air traffic controllers and overdrive. Wondering of the two pilots were asleep when they didn't respond to calls more than an hour. When they did respond their answers were so terrorist controllers still worried they'd been hijacked. Andy pastor of The Wall Street Journal starts us off an -- the pilots told investigators they were having a heated discussion over airline policy is possible. It could get so heated you wouldn't hear air traffic or see -- Minneapolis pass on any view."

" Anything is possible but if you -- safety experts and pilots there absolutely incredulous -- that explanation."

" Over an hour without a single message from a radio message from the plains to air traffic control. It like an eternity in this world and that that's among the nannies. Question this remain about exactly what happened here."

" What can -- Q what other questions does this raise."

" Well of course there's the issues about so what warnings these pilots would have had they should have had visual warning -- And it looks as though they should -- or warnings as well. Both from. I'm not touching the controls for a long period as well as their company. Dispatchers trying to reach them by phone that also by text messaging. Directly to the cockpit more than the other issues of course that this here's how did they finally realize what happened. There are these reports about a flight attendants. Knocking on the cockpit door. But the controllers. Also have version of this story that is that they try to use a plain as the intermediary. It's. Another plane in the area exactly flying in the same that in the vicinity. Two contacts that northwest's 5188. And that that actually. Help -- get sent them back on frequency. The most astounding part of this story as soon as you indicated it is. That the pilots so far have really not explain what happened -- both to the controllers sent to their own company."

" they've been suspended right now and it got so bad when they were in the arid that we understand military jets were waiting to scramble in the Denver area has the same area that. Know how to take on that balloon incident as well. Well we know this all comes in the middle of the debate over how much sleep pilots get apparently ever -- the airline industry agrees that. Rules dealing with pilot fatigue are outdated there's talk of introducing new ideas for instance controlled napping. What's that. And and -- if -- an elaborate what's the sense that these people were asleep."

" Well controlled mapping certainly is not what looks like or what would have happened in this aircraft control mapping as a technique where. One of two pilots in the cockpit and not off for a couple of minutes maybe thirty minutes is the most."

" And right now it's it's not allowed for any of the pilots in the cockpit to sleep Greg."

" That's correct it did not often become a freshman there when that when the plane lands disallowed by some foreign regulators and some foreign airlines. It's strictly prohibited but as part of this broad debate. There is now are much more -- than -- about allowing that kind of controlled napping. And is in the US anecdotally as he talked to pilots. They say that sleeping in the cockpit happens all the time certainly to have two crew members. Asleep at the same time ask could have happened in this case. That's a very very unusual."

" But I know how the idea of especially on long flights and there was another incident this week pilots who'd flown all night from Brazil. We ended -- 767 on the taxiway in Atlantic instead of on the main runway fortunately no one was hurt. But there's a sense there that that was pilot fatigue is there any thinking of having more pilots."

" As long flights already have what are called replacement pilots. The issue here is not so much how many pilots you have on the plane but what their schedules are before they you know fly that flag and after they fly -- blank. It's cumulative sleep deprivation which seems to be the biggest problem in this industry and says the hope is that these new regulations will. Take -- Katie rhythms and Bobby -- into consideration don't consider how many. Takeoffs and landings pilots have done any given period and they'll just tried -- more science to determine. How long pilots could stay at the controls in the given 24 hour period how long patients sleep and also what kind of rest. Extra rest they should -- be able to get."

" Any pastor reporter for The Wall Street Journal under bizarre incident at a Minneapolis airplane over shooting its destination. -- thanks so much for speaking with us."

" Recently hundreds of fans of animal researcher -- Herbert. Gathered in an auditorium at Boston's Museum of Science. The evening began with the video of Irene and her late great colleague and friend Alex the African grey -- As he learned a square has four corners and as he acted like the perennial five year old all parents' car."

" Thanks when she. Actually. Our corner former coroner goodwill aren't. Unique to this rare cold water. She wants -- I just instantly into it."

" Together doctor Peter Bergen Alex proved that a bird with a brain the -- walnut has intelligence. Then suddenly in 2007. Alex died. She tells their story in the book Alex and me and I was privileged to talk to her about it that night."

" He's the hard part in any video. How you doing now it's still hard. It's still one of of many people that wrote to you I remember the little boy who wrote to your book he said. You're inside we'll someday feel better sort of thing that happened well. It is the book. Dependable but we knew the end of the story we know what happens but we don't know why -- hoopla that Alex was sent at the bottom of the heart arrhythmia. And it was my that. Told me that even if he'd been there. You know Hollywood would've happened was I would've heard the client as -- program it was anything we did and he admitted to thirty."

" What color -- Kind increased. To -- oh boy and for thirty years they were a team proving that Alex had consciousness understood concepts like bigger fewer. Something I -- suspected back in the 1970s. Excepted to MIT at the age of sixteen. She became convinced she can replicate the then groundbreaking work -- been done with chants in apparent because she'd grown up with talking veggies. She and Alex eventually settled in the lab at Brandeis University. And after years of repetitive work with trays of letters and objects constantly fighting for funding and acceptance from appears. Came fame can Alex doing here. New things and soon. No way we're gonna do that Alan Alda Alex starred in several PBS specials with him. -- Alex watches while Alda and doctor pepper -- demonstrate her message so what we do is I active initially as a trainer yet. And you acted the model for his behavior. And his rival from my attention well okay. They tell me -- here it's both adapted from a German scientist it's called the model rival program of training. To humans asking each other about an object -- spoon. Then they asked the -- listen as Alex tries to connect this with a no. --"

" I'm serious about it and one when -- met -- when I'm not sure anyone in it's. Look say the whole thing what to us."

" It's murder are good okay. It's been slow speech please. Please get a warm welcome to doctor Irene --"

" Prior to Irene have a -- groundbreaking modeling methods animal communication research was conducted through operated conditioning. Animal subjects star of T 80% of their body weight so they'd be eager for those treats given after correct answers. And they were kept isolated in boxes it sounded cruel to me. But it made no science cents to Irene."

" the being. Communication is a social. Skills. And the idea of trying to train an animal to communicate. Through nonsocial. Method seems so darn crazy yet it just seemed very crazy. And essentially we kept demonstrating to the -- the types of behaviors we wanted it to learn. And we started with objects of the -- really want it so Alex really wanted to two paper or two pieces of what. So we trained him to label them so we can get -- his reward so be one to one correspondence between the object to label to be learned. Then started playing with the sounds. So we saw himself in and year."

" what color gray your great care. So that's how we learn grain and -- that is when it. Who's that says something like that back at it what color I think it. And sail on him today he's sitting there going great great great well no we can't to a great and you know -- a great. And start really think he says these things he gets fun put. But how pitching now. As you were working that he wasn't just parity. He wasn't just me because we started to have him into acting ways that he couldn't have simply parent. For example we would -- the pieces of index cards small pieces of winning -- cards for paper. And then we taking huge piece of computer output at those times that he's huge he's the computer output and we can't continue paper. It was totally different -- you start with with pieces of you know. When that we're just kind oppressors. And they -- you bringing you know piece of -- two by four. Any understands. We also had idiosyncratic labels. So you notice he said four corners. Not -- there. So and we have people coming in and videotaping them again right now and then they plant -- credit card and -- what color me go blue in them. And they say what shape anything if were corner. And they. What they we're expecting squares and they couldn't even be -- him because they weren't thinking square squares where he's going four point."

" And I just when it's another moment you describe when. Alex transfers knowledge of a big moment in science he understands the red key and a silver key both keys. You write a kind of vocal cognitive ability that had never before been demonstrated in non human animals not even in chimpanzees. This is in your diary he kept careful notes a very good start. And why it's so hard for establishment science to see that we knew how well it."

" When you mentioned it before when you tell us about the wallet sized brain and the idea of about a bird brain. And it was. Really hard because that would give talks and it was being invited to start giving talks and they would always be some -- assigned -- with you know he doesn't have any. Cerebral cortex and that's the part of the human brain that's responsible for intelligence. And they say how does he get witnessed it well. You know if you go to calendar here's 1903. Work there's something about this tribal areas and it turns -- if you look at whose work. That those bird with a larger startling areas like the crows in the parents and mine is actually do well on these tests. But you ice has got to figure this out I'm not the nearby colleges. And of course 2005. Jarvis and now what analysts twenty other people. It turns out that the parent brain is actually derived from the same pre core local areas is our brain. And that when you look at the relative size of the court area compared to the whole grain it's huge in the parents in the -- in the minds but at that time in the seventies. People were thinking this can't be it says if they we're stuck an idea that you had moved to PC. Because they're thinking big night means something -- you also write that. There was another thing going on. My interest was is sacrosanct. To some scientists and suddenly people -- humans have language and that. -- us a -- it puts us above. Biblical. In -- Soundview and they can. Break from. I even to this -- and never claim that Alex had language. But he had a two way communication system and he had elements. Of language like ability. He can learn what we call sentenced frames so I want X wanna go why so we we nibbling at the end."

" Until he said Alex died suddenly. We spoke to animal researcher I mean have a -- at Boston's Museum of Science to memoir is Alex and me. When we -- that doesn't mean believe Alex was capable of emotion and as she regrets holding her back to guard her credibility. That's when you're now."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back to excerpts of our conversation at Boston's Museum of Science with animal researcher Irene -- bird. About Alex the parrot who died at the age of thirty in 2007. Her memoir is Alex and me. Her work was initially rejected in 1980. There was a huge dust up an animal human research. Scientists say talking apes in birds -- nothing more than circus acts like the horse that supposedly -- the ground and counted. But was inadvertently cued by handlers who relaxed when the horse reach the right number. At a conference in 1980 Irene and other researchers were --"

" At best you people are self delusional. And at worst are liars and cheaters and fakes because animals just can't do these things. At at that point in the book ever admitted no new fox series when scientists fight. That's CD do you think. That when he used language Alex was able to express emotion. I'm thinking he when he said I'm sorry. And it became mine really really excited. You know it's interesting he -- something like that he knew was potentially applicable. I'm not sure there was ever any contrition. In that he really and it. -- you say that the illusion is there there's no question the emotion was there you can't work with an animal you can't live with an animal. With that except in the most -- you know how -- the body is hell bent over the is with the size facility the emotions are there. What I -- argue against is using human labels for those emotions. So again this is my my super sign to many people would say. We you write about coming into the room and you said if you didn't you know say hello Alex first he wouldn't work the rest of the day isn't that jealousy. And I sit well you could conflict jealousy I would call and dominance behavior but you know whenever you want to -- he was clearly showing that he was not happy about the situation. Oh he demonstrates a sense of humor I think you tell me if you think this government is seeing. Where he just was tired and he did what you do the right answer to -- how many questions and answers to pressing one."

" Four. You put it back at this page for a time out and what happens I'm sorry to movement. Come back here. Yeah I hear you. As a scientist you have to say yourself does he understand com. Back."

" Here yes he knows he knows come here means you know come back into the -- but essentially here it comes straight she's gonna ask me the same stupid question again. If he could have said I've already done it. I'm sure he would it there was a big moment. When it doesn't wanna. Didn't want to work anymore he would say one or not and you we're getting -- not so -- and remember that she's breaking down words he went not."

" That's amazing yeah."

" This is an. Yeah and this was in front of all of these CEOs it was that the media Alain. And other outlets that I think helping them -- what it really was because it was clear that he jumped ahead I mean we've never asked him to -- things -- Think that and so we never trained. And you know one of one of the really sad parts of it was we were still involved in doing other things at that moment. And I never pursue that particular. Task."

" You're saying it because of the."

" Controversy over the science you want to keep an emotional area. And there are times I've been reading and I say. On what you because of war in Vietnam are scared -- a field trips. Especially knowing the -- just I'm wondering. Do you have -- question -- the heck with the stupid scientists in my trying to keep my credibility for those journals I wish I head."

" You know we we're such close colleagues. And you working every day and think about working with eight single individual for thirty years. You're close. And and I know that I've broken. The science wouldn't have been when it why is and we wouldn't and then what we war. The icon that he TV campaign. And I don't think it was terrible because we don't -- him to some extent control things -- never had a film crew and he was beginning to learn the color brown it was just before you get right. I put a couple little brown things on the decayed and -- colony cobra and we -- doing is over and over the focus of what this is really boring this is just Steve witness it. No this is how he's learning both without lips he -- to hear me say this hundreds of times. And I'm aired just like you you pick up the toy from the child 200 times when the child is learning about gravity -- this was this is what I did. And that was my way of showing him that I loved him. What do you think. -- and he could have gone. That that's the big question I mean we -- cast. It was it was really at this stage now that we could just. Design experiments -- to train anymore he had so many that they -- he was helping you training haven't heard yes yes that tape. In they would they were so many things that that we are starting to think about restoring to think that not what he just training other birds. But would he get involved and and what's called the college token economy people are doing this with the apes. We care. If he choosing green token you both get. Some food if you choosing yellow token you only get the food -- the blue token only the other one gets the so he would not want her to get and that's knowing that when it was -- turn Griffin wouldn't let him get an answer would he start you know learn this cooperation. This -- the kind things are starting to get interest it and was it once in a lifetime it was so different or do you think the other birds or other -- well he was specialist for the first fifteen years of his life he was only bird. And it wasn't just training we talk to him we treat him like a toddler. And none of other birds -- had that experience. Alex was always there to interrupt all the concessions. To -- in. And the first year after Alex I Griffin would literally looked torn down this case. Like where where are you you you you always in the audience there's only do is repeat what you said. Not you. And it's been really call it for Griffin to realize that no you know yeah you did this now in the."

" Selling your shoulders and and he did you know he did learn in our modeling techniques and was really doing well so fingers -- I just was personally I'm just thank you so what we're working to do you think you have so too soon but did so much. To change people's minds to come to. Think she. -- thank you so much."

" Alex died in his sleep in 2007 his last words for the same as every night you be good I love you. Later today we'll have our entire evening at Boston's museum signs on our website here in -- on."

" Support for here and now comes from the listeners of WBUR Boston where the program is produced. Hinckley Allen and Snyder were partners have been giving clients practical legal advice for over a hundred years throughout new England and now including Connecticut. Online it has -- dot com. And the Institute of Contemporary Art on Boston's waterfront presenting the work of a diverse range of contemporary artists performers and more. Ice CA Boston dot org. Next up Mars."

" Or maybe an asteroid but not the moon that's the recommendation of the blue ribbon panel appointed by the White House to review the future of US human space flight. It's a major detour along the flight path NASA had planned for the coming decade. That dug in his news director at Alabama public radio author of final countdown NASA and the end of the space shuttle program and of course. The guy who -- tonight and all things outer space cadets about that moved Alabama that pet. After the terrible 2003 Columbia space shuttle disaster. Then president George W. Bush instructed NASA to put humans back on the -- by 20/20 so. What's your read on what this commission led by former Lockheed Martin's CEO norm Augustine is singing."

" Well the same basically been there done that as far as the moon is concerned I think the the worry is that of NASA goes back to the moon in the congress decides to cut off funding then everybody's gonna say that NASA chief nothing more than our grandparents did so they're thinking don't wanna we do something that. Is a little bit bigger may delivered more ambitious and what's interesting the Augustine report actually factored in public relations so -- we go to Mars this is how you spend into the public if we go to asteroids this ice -- the public so it's a bit of a different take."

" What would tell us more how they plan to do it because we know there's not a lot of money President Obama George W. Bush Bill Clinton all cut NASA spending is down about 20% since 19932. Wars are. Being waged so what are they are -- recommending that. Whatever is in the -- pay for."

" Well the boxing commission told the -- Obama White House to basically Fisher cut -- the -- they need at least three billion dollars more per year for NASA to even come close to what's plant so the Augustine commission basically said look either you find the money or you set less ambitious goals and except the disappointment or just go in just kill the space program -- was about the most blunt rhetoric effort regarding space program a long time."

" Well in fact what's the first thing we think of -- we think of that I mean. What happens to people in Florida who'd been working on -- space program."

" What everybody has reason either to be upset or overjoyed depending on who you talk to I mean there -- some members of congress to think of -- a jobs program so for example here in Alabama where homer of the Marshall space flight center which is building a rocket to replace the shuttle. And the Augustine commission said well that's the wrong rocket Gordon kill it so Alabama's mad. The panel also said the NASA should go ahead retire the space shuttle next year on schedule or maybe -- which 111 and that means 7000 jobs are gonna disappear from Florida so Florida's -- They're not giving any of the political cover that the White House was probably hoping -- White House was mad and it kind of goes on from there. So that's who's mad but who stands to gain. Actually I was very impressed the of the report singled out commercial rocket builders as somewhere the -- ought to go. In other words they recommend that it might be a good idea for NASA to forget about building -- to take people to and from the International Space Station and -- commercial companies do that not to coincidentally there's one company out -- building a rocket building a cargo capsule to go to the space station but that cargo -- not to coincidentally has windows -- so there's talk that they could actually adapt that commercial vehicle put in safety factors including seats and -- human beings in there and a decent folks of the space station and bring them back and do it on and this is -- Questions of security outsourcing something is potentially serious says space travel. Well I think it's a with a NASA simply gonna have to deal with I mean for example at the Kennedy Space Center there were talking about having space tourism go in and out of the Kennedy Space Center runway. Well the Kennedy Space Center is a NASA federal secured facility so they had to work out all the details on that. Oddly enough -- you go back to the movie 2001 a space Odyssey. Arthur C -- back in 1968 envision a world where space shuttles run by pan am would go back and forth to space stations run by Hilton but then the civilian space operation his idea for NASA would go off to the moon and Jupiter into although that the far out things pretty this report will be received. There's already talk that members of congress want to disregard what you Augustine commission has said. It's possible the president will look at the reports say thank you very much put in file thirteen and go often do what ever. There's everything basically is up in the air and since the decision is not likely from the White House until next year that kind of paints NASA into a corner."

" Well meantime pet Duncan's news director at Alabama public radio and astute listeners releasing the second. -- was our guy in Florida and now you're in Alabama with what's up there."

" Well but what's going on is that as -- space shuttle goes away in Florida and it will go away attention is going to switch over to the Marshall space flight center Alabama which will build NASA's next generation vehicle whatever vehicle that turns out to be so all of the stars you know -- a very nice in that regard."

" Yes you are in the right place again had dug in -- space for national public radio author of final countdown NASA and the end of the space shuttle program. Thanks so much that. Thank you. In just a quick no we -- glad to hear from you -- here now dot org and click on contact just sending email get a phone number. We can just scroll down right and the economy. Hearing about that or."

" Back -- thirty seconds. So people can buy their food from the local farmer but most have no idea where their food comes from until something goes terribly wrong. As 19 people died in more than 700 got sick last winter after eating tainted peanut products. 11400. People got sick from bad Solso last year. In that case the Food and Drug Administration initially blamed tomatoes before finally tracking the outbreak to peppers and now. The government and the food and she wanna improve food tracking from a farm. To your home and it grant is the founder of yeah mark which works with food suppliers and consumers to track food with his -- mr. mark label. -- explain your labels war."

" The other labels put on food. The field or in the package it and that the little number on that label and when the consumer goes to the web site on the small dot com. They can just cut that number and click -- And it will -- that person's all about food where it's from its its fresh and critically weather site."

" Well okay I've got some numbers here from red grape. -- code in and now I'm hitting Trace from Anthony vineyards under the care of the BI local family. A founded in 1967 so I get to learn a little bit about the vineyards and I can linked to them if I want but. More important it's says food safety status no issues report."

" Exactly in the event ability to senator recall -- withdrawal any product with all the smart 'cause. That's side that would I would tell you exactly what to do and so the problem with it and this is the real issue consumers. Might hear on the radio on CB that a problem great -- not the ones that they've got are affected."

" Well let let's back up and and find out more about what's been happening we know that in the -- pepper outbreaks it took months to track -- the problem. Though food suppliers are required to keep records -- so first of all do they keep those records why did you take so long."

" do keep the radical. And while everybody keeps their own -- the problem wants everyone kept different types of records. It's meant as a great example -- depicts they get hacked by somebody else that maybe we packed again and they didn't want that package but that company. From the law of the inflation didn't constantly change very efficiently. So when the FDA and CDC wanted to find out what was the origin of it matters and that's also they couldn't find Alfred."

" we used in the Department of Health and Human Services. Was able to track only five of forty food items from a grocery store back to the farm they. They failed in 35 items had no idea when they came from."

" Exactly and that really looking at the wake up call for all the folks this. Say they're on the record but is not available easily when you need them."

" Tell us more about. What the government is doing is we understand there is a bill which passed in the house it's pending in the Senate. And it would require developing rules for better record keeping tells more about what the government is doing."

" It's a -- twenty some 49. It requires that the Department of Agriculture has the ability to Trace a product all that that's the source within two days. And behind that is the expectation industry is that as electronic record keeping."

" Okay well you've been speaking I've put in another of your label codes this one for yams and these cans come from progressive protests in California. And again no issues reported that one of the questions is. Regulates this how do you know. That does supplier could -- correct information when me you know save the origin of the -- eventual."

" We're in the business of collecting data from farmers and making it available to humans. And some of that data is location thanks for the compliment to -- with a GPS device. We captured it there packing facility until Wimbledon that personally was in California."

" But that prison in California may have a shipment from Mexico that there had enough -- my California."

" Now -- them that they chose to do that we can't verify the authenticity of the data they put him but I will say that country of origin little. Requires them to correctly state the -- so if they try to be deceptive as saying these were California taken from Mexico but it should be grateful."

" Have you had any occasion so far where labels have. Turned -- product that has been recalled."

" Fortunately none of our customers and had to recall the we have had instances -- customers as -- found a problem with a product complains about something of a product. And that the that relative to that I identified right away which field -- come from people would accept accept product."

" That's -- grant founder of -- to mark and company that makes labels that allow customers to see where their food comes from Elliot thanks so much. --"

" Let's take a second check in on the run up to the World Series baseball's defending world champion Philadelphia Phillies are waiting to see who they'll face. In New York Yankees -- the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. And -- dramatic here last -- angels rallied to beat the Yankees 76 moving the American League Championship Series back to New York for game six Bill Littlefield host of NPR's. Only gain is here bill we used to produce at the Yankees have wrapped up Clinton."

" Well I I'm a little surprised because I think they would have wrapped it up except for some very curious managerial decisions one of which record late last night's game. Yeah the Yankees looked terrific they looked to me like a team that strong enough to overcome. Even four decision making."

" Well again you're talking about the Yankee -- the Yankee manager leaving the starting pitcher in the game until this hour."

" The quality that the bringing him back in after the Yankees had had an inning in which they'd sent ten men to the plate and scored six runs. It was it was pretty evident that that's a long time to sit on the bench and and then go back and pitch but the other was. Why not put up that a pinch hitter for Nick Swisher at the end of the game a guy has done nothing. He's looked terrible and comes up with a bases loaded my goodness for somebody up there -- likely get a hit."

" You know what to say about hindsight. Absolutely. Absolutely namely general series scheduled for Wednesday night the Phillies we'll have a full week. After dispensing with the LA Dodgers -- California they might be losing to teams on their pitching -- gonna be rested. The defense of their title on the line when you know it's seems that they they will have an advantage."

" Well they should have an advantage normally years it's great to have arrested pitching staff unhappily for Philadelphia. If you pitching staff isn't as good as the pitching staff only had a team all the rest of the world may not do you too much good. -- the Yankees as they went -- we'll have CC sabathia and plenty of time I mean that series is gonna and Saturday or Sunday if the Yankees when they've got plenty of time to. Palm course Pedro Martinez pitching for the Phillies was magnificent after about two weeks of rest the last time he -- that maybe that'll happen again it may actually help the --"

" And then -- on him Iran and not count and Tony the angels either -- embarrassed by a string of bad umpiring calls in the plant's Major League Baseball has announced drum roll please. It's breaking tradition and sticking with only experienced umpires for the world sixties. Shouldn't be the goal -- well it's an interesting."

" and in it as in many things around and it's a matter of balance you want your experienced umpires in your most important games. Unless your umpires in your most important games are so experienced that they should've retired. Some congress previously and unhappily the umpires pension plan is not very good and so there's not much impetus for them to recognize G. I'm thirty pounds heavier than I used to be in my eyes aren't quite as good maybe I should get out of this dobbs. So that's that's the other side of the experience issue."

" As usual. You always get the other side of the story from Bill Littlefield host of NPR's only game to catch it this weekend Bill Clinton's no thank you around. -- and in -- now."

" Support for here and now comes in part from the school foundation supporting social entrepreneurs around the world. Uncommon heroes dedicated to the common good. Learn more at school dot org."

" Welcome back. That new movie starring Hilary Swank is in the air hard debuts today. But Emilia first film to feature a character inspired at least in part by this famous in here. In 1930 -- Christopher strong Katharine Hepburn. Played a flier who commits suicide during a dangerous flight because she's pregnant by a married man the aforementioned Christopher strong a member of the British parliament."

" I'm up to New York give up just gave us and I. And you get his name that McFarland and isn't John this is humid that it made me."

" But that's -- imagine life their hearts was very real and for a woman in the 1920s and thirties it with a life ahead of its time. She was a fashion designer medical student photographer a social worker here Boston and BR. And most at home in the sky she was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic she did it in 1932. And that's set off a string of record breaking flight that made her world famous. Then in 1937. She navigator Fred Noonan vanished over the Pacific on their plate around the world their bodies their plane election never found. Seventy years later people are still looking. Why Susan -- is author of still missing Emilia Earhart in the search for modern feminism. She joins us Susan welcome threatening and forty against the question is is it that he knows -- iconic we're still looking for why."

" I think we have to admit that without the disappearance and probably there would not be the cult of them millionaire heart the second part of it. Is that gender really does matter the fact that it was a woman who was lost this aviator who captured the public imagination and there are ways in which she stood for. Women's independence than and I think we're still drawn to that model today we'll put in context for us. How did her -- a intersect with the lives of other women how was it different what was she. CNET community -- heart never watch -- a traditional life she reached out. To fly because that was a way to be an independent woman. But she also. Hope that her example would encourage other women to think. Well maybe I don't just half to lead a traditional life how do we know that she intended that. Because every time she did record breaking flight. She would say I hope it inspires women to do things they've never done before."

" Aviation this young man and got exemplified. The possible relationship women and the creation science. I'm aluminum yet have not taken for nobody can accuse some benefit fat hello it is available to them I had command."

" She was very conscious the end. Using her celebrity. As a role model for American women in the 1930s through books magazine articles was in -- cosmopolitan have a line of clothing she was such an active woman of course she was known for wearing slacks but when she designed the shirts for her. Line of clothing she always made sure they had a really long coattails. So that they would state tucked in. No matter what a woman did Silas had images of her doing cartwheels down a hall and her blouse would be nicely tucked and we know it reminds us too they are always different points in history. When women's lives are free because clothing is designed. You and I are both runners and there was a time when there wasn't running clothing for women any women had to run and you know boys tiger shoes and there wasn't clothing but then the clothing sort of came Minnesota which came first. She was a part of that she was one of those people who. In designing clothing for women she could change their life I think also just by her example it was quite -- usual in the 1932. Have. Photographs of a woman wearing slacks and we think of a vanity you know you can picture it. Her in the bomber jacket and -- that the Jennifer's on in that short cropped hair and freckles. Just a little more about them look I've always wondered if a millionaire hearted and short and dump the with her she could have been -- as popular as she was in the 1930s but she had the perfect modern body she was tall and thin she was streamlined. The weighted she dressed his very similar to how women dressed today she's like a gap that she is like again -- and she was one and the 1990s and I really do think that if she locked into a room today she would looked perfectly at home. And I do think that part of the reason why. For celebrity. Hasn't heard is that her image is still very modern whereas if you think about Eleanor Roosevelt to conceal -- Very famous in the 1930s. They don't. Have that youthful. Modern -- once just her -- sort of PR firm in the form of George Putnam who was a publisher who had written a successful book on Lindbergh. And who -- air heart before she was very famous if he could also to book on her sort of he was envisioning Lindbergh with a dress I think he says. And and they fell in love to tell me about them as a couple in some ways it's a very modern married in net you have to. People both with full time careers of course his career is promoting her ears and it's one which really comes quite close to him a modern notion of equality she very much for her own person well she. Who wrote a letter to him sort of a cleanup Franken from the got married and here's a portion of it. On her -- together I want you to understand I shall not hold you to any medieval cold -- faithfulness to me. Nor shall I consider myself so bound to you. Let us not interfere with each other's work or play and she -- system the morning of their wedding and I think to his credit he must've -- and said okay -- if that's what you want but. It points to another one of his better characteristics which was how many feminist husbands. Are there going to be in the 1930s. Indians' season where do you think many Earhart was for me. Who were reckless or maybe both because you know people like -- washboard."

" The mountaineer photographer also the founder of the Boston Museum of Science here we just talked about new biography about him. He energy for the navigate your position that Fred knew eventually took but. Brad Washburn pulled out because he was concerned about the lack of radio contact and the Pacific Blake. And then in this recent biography Levy he actually went to her home spread out maps on the floor try to show her why she shouldn't go there she was going. She went anyway and he was ready radio contact was the problem."

" Was she reckless there's several hours on the table one -- definitely. Reckless a little bit and stubborn. And I think up to that point in her career she had always been able to pull herself out of whatever boxes she'd gotten yourself into she felt that she could do it if she needed to one more time and -- she -- somewhat fatalistic. She always said that if she ever. When she hoped that she went quickly in her plane. And she never really could ambition growing old. And of course we don't have an images of personal moment she's almost forever young because we have all these wonderful pictures over at at her prime. So. I think all those characteristics conspired. To get through this combination of fearlessness and recklessness and stubbornness that meter wanna do that flight in the first place got -- through almost all of it. And then perhaps hastened her demise of the area and."

" Yeah it's interesting and the movie comes up this week and 816 year old -- Watson of Australia also. Launches her effort to be the youngest person to sail around the world -- lot of criticism of these. Young people -- mis speaks sales but. The impact will be especially Hilary Swank. In this role he what do you sense will be an original well."

" Things I'm hoping comes out of this movie is that it. Focuses our attention back on a millionaire -- life the only young girls who want to do things like sail around the world by themselves. Amelio would say. Go for it her message to women was. You can do anything you want it's the individual not the sex that counts that kind of message just is still very timely to."

" This season there author of still missing millionaire hard in the search for modern feminism. The new film familiar yet is in theaters today. Susan thanks so much pleasure."