Title: Here and Now for Thursday, November 5, 2009

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" I'm running young it's here and now the house health care reform bill is limping toward a rare Saturday night vote. As democratic leaders scrambled today to play paint party members threatening to defect of the contentious issues like abortion and immigration. Meanwhile the AARP has thrown its support behind the bill despite concerns for many seniors about the bill's proposed cuts in high and Medicare coverage. Scale static has been following all of this she's senior congressional correspondent for the Christian Science Monitor. Gail let's start with abortion about forty Democrats have said they oppose the bill if public funds are used -- abortions now. We heard that the bill calls for the secretary of health and human services to decide if public insurance option money covers abortion. But also. We've heard that it calls for a separate account to hold premiums paid by users. And then abortion services would be paid for from that separate account not from taxpayer money so what was true about what the house is proposing."

" We will know a lot lower tomorrow part two in the afternoon when the rules committee takes up. What's likely to be a very important amendment on the portion -- talking nailed down this language. And the language might be yes. Public option money might be used but it have to be -- at least separated. From -- services that is. The money that would fund the -- directly will be the co pay or will be a pipe -- premiums can be introduced to come up with an accounting device. Still don't reassure opponents of abortion services that the public dollar will never touched the surface."

" Well the right to life committee says that moving money like that is just money laundering you know sleight of hand. But tell us more about these democratic in particular opponents of abortion in this political climate. There's an equation here as a magic number that Democrats have to come up with what's going on behind the scenes."

" And -- there aren't that forty Democrats willing to book leadership on this and we cannot seem completely scripted -- If you aren't supporting Democrats that means. Health built tales you will not make it to eighteen under the speaker said today that the election in upstate New York. Get through one more Democrat and that's welcoming the number Buffy."

" And you say Democrats have been pretty shaken about the other votes in New Jersey and Virginia."

" its gave a bad. Momentum to this bill that basic suggestion that there is to ground that there -- concern about what national Democrats to doing that the president is doing. That could -- these vulnerable Democrats going into the company can elections so that's really the calculation."

" So democratic leaders working to protect those forty Democrats. Who might have fears about funding for abortions."

" Technical language of the amendment to -- definitely important. That is. Democratic need cover -- it desperately and 21. Proposal that's been made to date. Which is to hire a private contractor. To handle those payments. Didn't go anywhere with these Democrats that didn't have to come with something and something stronger but he would issues."

" A couple other issues at dinner proving contentious the current bill allows illegal immigrants to buy insurance in the so called exchange set up by the government. But they will not be allowed to get any federal subsidies to help defray the cost."

" Now that too is it is subject fed is likely to be amended from affordable he helped -- code. The concern here is that you don't really solve the problem. All for example all the candidates going on an emergency rooms and then being passed on to -- hospital can't afford. You don't -- that if you don't deal with all of the illegal traditionally been getting services today. Republican plan to push harder on -- if they want to make sure that even those who aren't in the country illegally at this point. Perhaps don't receive coverage for five years."

" Well let's look at AARP they infuriated Democrats by backing George W Bush's Medicare drug program. Now there infuriating Republicans by backing health reform. They offer product that sells high -- Medicare Advantage it's assumed that a lot of the cuts are gonna comment that high end Medicare coverage. AARP says that don't mind cuts in waste because they say that's gonna make the overall program stronger for seniors. But industry backers like the Galen institute say. AARP. And -- a conflict of interest here they want seniors to leave Medicare Advantage and purchase AARP's. Met again so. Lot of criticism of them here."

" It's so big it's a real issue. And it'll actually it'll Fulham road in terms of what their members do. -- have been hearing that there has been. And then basically simply turning in their cars and carting them -- because there's stairs has been alarmed. By the -- magnitude of the cuts to Medicare."

" And how much of that do we know is real and how much says. And that is is being manufactured by people against health care."

" have to account can't you tell me directly into it's it's just to reveal the number of cuts and seen. I haven't seen additional numbers -- that and I think you're beautiful intact until after the deal. Comes out. But -- endorsement today it was a huge boost in momentum could dispel any that the timing coming right -- to these these elections. Coming in the music as you've seen very difficult issues on apportion any illegal immigration."

" Get tendency congressional correspondent for the Christian Science Monitor -- is noise woke. This week the French government launched a debate over what it means to be French most you speak French can you wear a Barca. Well this well certainly sound from the to our next guest Michael Goldfarb has written a book that begins with a similar debate more than 200 years ago on the eve of the French revolution. The question and 1785. Was one that came up over and over again it was the question of did -- used or as one essay contest put it. Are their means to render the Jews more useful and happy in France. Well one way what that might have been to stop forced them to pay a special poll tax whenever they enter in Newtown remember this was 150. Years before the Nazis. But -- we're still basically locked in ghettos limited to their traditional occupations like. -- picking or small time money lending and in some cases. In some countries forced to wear a yellow star and referred to as Christ killers. The French revolution changed everything -- as Michael says one day. We were completely segregated the next day Napoleon comes along and tears down again -- and we can do anything we want well sort. His new book is emancipation how liberating Europe's Jews from the ghetto that -- revolution and Renaissance in it he also wonders what this piece of history. My teaches about segregated groups -- immigrant populations today. And Michael Goldfarb a former colleague infect on occasion former host of this very program joins us in the studio Michael welcome hired rob and good to be here good to see you in some context for this piece of history -- T seventeen hundreds. Take -- up to Hitler and pre world -- to but it. Where are we in the age of enlightenment the revolution."

" But it's actually it's the age of enlightenment and it had reached its political phase from the theories about tolerance and reason as opposed to your blind faith and so on. We got to have the political phase and and in the French revolution. People ask themselves before they rebel. You know what kind of decided we want to build we know have to -- in society and this is 1700 says 1785. To 1987 then seven -- 99 happens in this for the Bastille. Iran and get the the real reformers the future revolutionaries that liberty equality fraternity and all men are Brothers all mentoring school and they defer that question I ask is well -- Brothers including the Jews."

" You -- remind me so much in the lightness of being reminded this. Of America. Post the American revolution. Everybody's people at those slaves. Were there there is actually a direct. I mean they're there are many parallels -- One of the reasons I chose the title emancipation which is in an America that has a very specific meaning but emancipation have been words being used for 75 years prior. -- to the civil war around your -- emancipation of irishman in Indian. Brit in the British Isles -- the emancipation of the Jews and perhaps. And you don't look. The test case is is what happened I mean there were 26 million people in France at that point 40000 Jews and not even half of 1%. And yet they had become it would this kind became a national obsession about how do we test our our ideals. And what's the test population that --"

" And you write it the hatred of the -- news. Was -- the air that people -- it was just there but it does what because we -- your book that the word ghetto com's. From a section in Venice that Jews were ordered to listen in 1516. So why weren't they still in -- in the 1700."

" Well actually it is if they -- and get us from long before that in -- get in Venice is one of the last places. To get -- it was -- started in the black death you know we caused it not but that that was the -- It had just become a habit but the other thing is that. On the inside of the ghetto -- remember that -- the Jewish religion was kind of a monolith. And it drew -- withdrew in on itself. It's started to. Have more engagement. Combatants and to centric but it was in on itself and and so it just couldn't insulin -- for so long and you know what happened is you know. And and this is I think a point of relevance with today and in the French going crazy every three months about the -- you know young women going to school wearing -- good job wearing the -- which is the -- It's like. -- unity he went. If you were peasant annual between planting and read and are just hasn't -- you need to -- little monies he goes. Small guy who's got -- got a beard he is different he smells different disease diet is different he can barely speaks French. And when you look at the -- you can't read but you know that. What's written on the ledger about how much -- was in some secret script because the room and he group and you know it was very alien and so that's it. This is a nation with in the nation that cannot possibly be French. And the -- leads in the Jewish community who did work for. The government. It don't know we're born on French soil we are Frenchman who happen to be too."

" Any and you should point -- it's different across the continent I mean Jews have different -- slightly different experiences in different places but. It's it's sort of chicken and egg questions some. Perhaps for self segregating consumer segregating because they were hated so it's sort of you know it's it becomes as vicious cycle and then I'm really fast forwarding here. The French revolution. Does happen it leads in parts of the emancipation for the Jews and we come across the reign of terror in France. Out of that insane time comes Napoleon who seizes power marches across the continent and literary it's it's used as a missed that part of."

" History well. Again the code opponent. Said you know act rights of active citizenship should apply liberty equality and fraternity to all members of society. When he in the first place he went on the march was in Italy. Where it was very serious -- get -- actually lived -- countryside -- is more like little self segregated -- couldn't -- in in big towns after dark. He went you know he'd eat he tore down -- and -- he actually made the city fathers go to the get go to the gates that were locked. Forced them to remove the gates dragged into the big piazza and -- them he then renamed the ghetto this is the main street to get -- via -- You -- see if it is freedom street and it's happened all over Europe and so. From that moment and amazing summer. Of integration a desire to to to meet up and that was a terrible price is well for doing that because you you have 500 years of tradition. And insularity and suddenly. The Jewish religion. Is in conflict with. Kind of modern life some Jewish religion had to be reformed. And and in some ways this is it what's happening with the muzzle with Muslims in Europe today I mean you make a choice as a Muslim today. You know will you be an orthodox Muslim -- you going to be so integrated that you know you're sort of outside your community."

" So a lot of impact from emancipation as a reformation of the fate. There are also people who they might be liberated but it's still isn't working so you see a lot of -- convert just to pass. And you know see this -- suddenly knew he was just come eat like flowers freeing up tried Einstein. -- And will take a look at the flowering post the revolution but also how revolution might have freed Europe's Jews to decide to. Desegregate we self segregate again and beat the birth of Israel. Michael Goldfarb his new book is emancipation how liberating -- cues from the get a lead to revolution and Renaissance and have more this fascinating look at history -- out of place today. After a quick break also later today that medical marijuana growth in California. Here in."

" Funding for here and now comes from the math works creators of -- lab and simulate technical computing software. Dedicated to accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science worldwide. On the web at math works dot com."

" Welcome back here now into our conversation Michael Goldfarb his new book is emancipation. How liberating Europe's Jews from the -- to revolution and Renaissance and he can read an excerpt of the book that are website here and now dot org and also for listeners here in. The Boston area. Michaels can be reading from the book deceive you get information about that at the website as well. -- we're talking about this flowering in Jewish world came. After the French revolution. And yet it wasn't without its complications but before we get to that -- means that pour forth I mean almost immediately Sigmund Freud and Albert Einstein. Just all these people that would suddenly able to fulfill their promise outside the piano. And others that I had frankly never heard of and had these incredible contributions you -- ghosts."

" You will that was not something anyone who started researching the book and I was trying to figure out why there'd been an explosion marks for -- Einstein and our and us. And then sort of come across these other names and one of them was a guy named Gabriel -- or who in 1848 year revolution in Europe. The German middle classes had called a parliament have been trying to create a unified Germany Germany was not unified then and they're gonna -- A constitution. And here's this guy he was a lawyer. He had published. Newspaper called dare you won't. The Jew at a time when the Jewish community itself was trying to get everybody to call them the Israel -- he -- And you know he's he wrote this essay when she said. Don't you know the Angel of death will find you through a thousand good names anyway he seemed interest -- have a friend who writes for developed Thomas -- anger. I call Tom opposite. Tom into the sky is east Germany seems to be important and Thompson never heard him and Tom thinks he knows aloft. But two weeks later I can email from him and he says Michael I'm very sorry this -- actually is very important I'm very surprised myself that I don't know who years. And I wrote back I said I understand. The reasons you don't know we insisted that community. That would have remembered him no longer exist in Germany. It's either been murdered -- everybody went away and can come across these people. Who have no one left in Europe to remember them. Or their reminders of about at a different time and people don't want to remember and I -- at least found it was a ghost hunter as well. And they became in writing the book to me as important as marks were in ninth and -- actually have hundreds it took meter testing will you rushed through marks you know for ignorance of the why there's a thousand books on each and they wrote about themselves but nobody wrote about your burglaries are also behind their hats or Moses has or. -- is known but in this country but only to you -- German academics and these are amazing man."

" Well -- and and so what happened I wanted to collapse a lot of history now because he had this emancipation in this flowering. But this time -- gave birth to the leaders of the zionist movement and this idea of it isn't working as well this is before you weaken the drumbeat of the Nazis in fact we meet -- through in your book is an art student. But what happened."

" There was always resistance to the idea. The social emancipation of -- And that was part of the tension I mean the whole always I think -- was this explosion of achievement was his -- there was just always social tension. Guys came out -- that we're no longer part of -- community they weren't accepted in the new community. And the identity crises and and we're trying to. -- or something out for themselves. Anyway there were a number of institute of public every twenty years me insane incidence of Jew hatred. Percent to semitism is a word with an exit didn't exist in in the middle of the nineteenth century. And the sky Moses has who was arguably the first German Communist introduced communism to mark's marks communism. In the 1862 set honorable and he called Roman Jerusalem and he said you know. Until the Jews. Have their own nation of which they can be citizens. In Palestine. On where they come from we cannot feel safe and secure because a Frenchman with a French passport can live in London. And know that he has his country -- countries France and the commitment to business and in London. Similarly the Jews of Europe need to know that they have a country of which their citizens and it should be in Palestine. -- start buying -- land of -- and this is 35 years before Theodor Herzl wrote. Essentially the same thing. Moses has is one of my ghosts and Theodor Herzl claims never to have random. I I'm doubtful I doubt that actually. And it was this sense that can we just need that one place of security even then. In the middle of the nineteenth century long before the Holocaust. That we can be equals you know that that we are. Citizens and there's an equality that we are citizens of country were not constantly having to fight and win has wrote I mean this is 1862. Germany was yet to be united and in many parts of the German speaking world Jews were still you know. Second class citizens living in it Jim Crow kind of -- discrimination."

" Well I'm reminded it was a hundred years after the civil war when American blacks receive. Their rights but it just it really hit a couple minutes here it's -- such a fascinating tale but becomes a very personal one for you. And you Trace your own when it."

" He well it. It it it did it didn't intend -- but admitted there was that there are moments where I do linking him you know. Do I wrote about an incident and I know that that was the inciting incident from my great grandfather to begin the long journey. To America and at the very -- remained. I take the book only as far as April 1933 when the Nazis seized power there's no need. To take it all the way up to the horrors -- and let history -- your your foreshadowing for you today. You come to this record of really quite extraordinary -- world changing stuff and you know that. We're about to enter a whole new phase of the game here and it's not going to be happy ending. But the same thing has happened in America took -- grandfather was a Hasidic rabbi three generations and for which is. The most important most important thing -- the twentieth century. Three generations in America and and look at. How Jews who who got off the boat with nothing have. He used the same kind of struggled to. Become part of the society trying not to lose touch with. Something else and it is it -- and I have to say that it isn't just -- it's a universal thing whether it's Mexican Americans African Americans coming from Mississippi up north. It's a process the process of emancipation."

" Michael Goldfarb telling us of the history that foreshadowed the history that we know of the years leading up to the Nazis in Germany this book is called emancipation how liberating Europe's Jews from the -- led to revolution and Renaissance terrific read and again. You can read an -- at our website here and now board. Michael who returns your new home in London. Thank you so much for coming in to spend some time in my pleasure to see -- again. And still ahead today after the latest news the prisoner older and news that -- TV hit series. That's -- news is next here now."

" It's not a great time to be a young person looking for a job. The global economic downturn is taking a toll on high school and college grads as they tied into the workforce. When we may find some lessons in Japan in 1990s Japan's economy was in a slump caused in part by a sharp plunge in the real estate market. That then jobs good jobs were hard to -- Japan. The BBC's Roland Burke profiles one man in his thirties who's never been able to land a permanent job."

" Rush hour right yeah. The train stations a foolish purposeful men and women in dark seats heading home after another long day at the some have struggled to find a place in the world of work. Who blame this on independence -- Who bushel local and city to. One that wasn't elementary school Japan's bubble economy burst. When there was in high school -- ICH four recruitment study. I feel very much that I am part of a Lost Generation. This is an -- nothing new to us. And having a coffee no that's his nickname he graduated in 1998. During Japan's decade of stagnation. He couldn't find them and until single school term contracts in IT. By 2007. Over three million people in Japan between 2435. Were working it tends. Who doubled the number ten years. When the IT industry went into decline penalties went right. --"

" She will pull it up and society's standards -- set too high especially for those of us or unemployed. You always hear it on PPQ book shelves just -- hard. But they have to realize relief in a different world who -- earlier generations. You cannot compare what they did back when they -- west group to what we faced if there's no way we can dream World Cup hopes for the future well. How can they say just what hardest. It's part of their rates and the young generation doesn't have -- we did a fundamental but it to you and."

" He finished the coffee and a side. Most likely this amusement arcades and -- is trying to encourage customers. The streets and Hillary Clinton and we need to play."

" This and then my knee you maximize. The lowest point it was someone else up placed -- me. I lost my job I had a problem with my family my girlfriend and my friends you know I can just press couldn't pay their rent somewhere in no way they've -- kill. When you lost you'll place to live -- you end up -- on some home so that I decided to reset every single and then lose touch with everybody. I decided to leave my stuff. If they caught -- cold. Looking and bold plan to. I picked -- food that had been thrown away and I didn't have money. I didn't have a place and he went -- and they didn't have -- Of course I didn't have on the electrical. That was the first go. I came to place like here. Typical little plate and picked up anything fast food restaurants through LA that's how -- you -- Today wearing a seat in time so what's changed. -- I went to see my family in attempt to terms we stand with a mom. This is and wearing today west kept famous comedy prize winning had a job -- I just get cheap shirts hostility could pick up that -- you in in training. Japan's economy -- still looking pretty -- immediately getting -- Another -- wheel stayed out that he Miami. First of all. You need to have experience doing a joke you're looking for. If you don't have really good experience you might as well have known -- They're read it take you credits to people who have had that experience. There's really nothing available. With there needs temp work load time and desperate time like disagree -- until you let them."

" That report from the BBC's Roland -- in Tokyo. We'll just ahead who's exactly growing the marijuana for medical marijuana in California we'll look at some of the -- numerous you're listening to hear -- now."

" More than a dozen states have laws allowing marijuana use by severely ill people. And their businesses really booming in California. Where marijuana is the State's most lucrative crop but -- might well. By some estimates that sales are about fifteen billion dollars this year alone and in some cases. In -- neighborhoods following local ordinances of allowed limited growing of marijuana for personal or -- used. Are doing just that. Federal officials say they won't go after pot smoking patients or their sanctions suppliers. But cities like Los Angeles are scrambling to deal with the exploding medical marijuana market. Some airline growers are positioning themselves to be the vineyards of the future. -- journalists Susan kitchens this writes about this in Millen Q magazine which is published by the Millen can center for research media and public policy. She -- from the studios of the graduate school of journalism at the University of California Berkeley Susan welcome. Thanks so much relevant and yet -- at the first sentence in your report it reads Sarah's whole streak reeks of pot. Kucera and it tells more about -- street."

" Okay Ferrell is a woman in her mid fifties who lives in Sonoma County California. To look at her. You would think she's a typical suburban housewife except that she is one of several people on her very block who is growing marijuana in her backyard and you could smell the -- conceding current some cases. And she tell you should just know anyone in Sonoma County US a growing pot -- well I think she's exaggerating a little but she does say yeah everybody's doing that I mean. I ran into my neighbor at the hardware store buying rope lights and why is she doing she needs extra money like many people in this economy she's just looking to supplementary income that she used to have her own business. Doing video but with all the home video and the bad economy in general her business is pretty much tanked in the last couple years. And she found herself really struggling to their property taxes and said this isn't. Making her rich butt cheek and let go a couple pounds and make a few thousand dollars one plan typically will produce about two pounds of marijuana. She wouldn't talk specifics in terms of money but my estimate is that she is hoping. To make about 20000 dollars in a year. Which is not that much money but it's enough to make the difference for her name is legal -- you explained that public."

" system in California where people can get prescriptions and they get licenses. To grow the so called medicine. Or medicinal marijuana which is what it's called. So she got a prescription and now has licensed -- how she had a prescription."

" The law in California is that if you get a prescription from your doctor you can sell. Buy or grow your own marijuana. Now it's an open secret that it's extremely. Easy to get these prescriptions doctors. Who specialized in medical marijuana advertised in the alternative weeklies for candidates magazines they set ups boots at rock concerts so most people think that if you basically walking in the door of one of those stocks and -- 150 dollars. You will walk out with a prescription."

" Well and an LA times reporter did just that Justin that's correct well I mean you've got Richard -- the president of poster and the university this is a school in California. The teaches people how to grow and sell marijuana so it's. Right now everything's just right out in the open but simultaneously. You'd describe as someone death until he not a bust on their block of and so he was going marijuana so how would you what is Ackerman."

" correct Robin that's the big contradiction if people like -- field that your local law enforcement people are not going to buy FM and in fact present Obama as you said recently. Said that the feds will not -- people who are complying with state or local laws. Indicated for the San Francisco about and it gently there were guns there were methamphetamines. There were other more criminal type activities. In fact one of the people I -- in the story who growth and -- Francisco. Says oh yeah of course those people should be busted because they're criminals so there's real dichotomy between people who feel I'm not a criminal even though I'm breaking federal law."

" But and yet. You've got David -- the assistant city attorney for the city of Los Angeles who said there about a thousand medical marijuana dispensary so these -- places where people were growing the marijuana can sell to the dispensary who. Then turn around and sell it to the people with the prescriptions in the medical conditions. He says did not even 10% of them are selling pot for those legitimate medical reason so."

" This -- it's a huge open secret. We think it's going I think it's going to legalization with from the state of California. Assemblyman Tom on the auto introduced a bill in February. That would legalize the possession fail and cultivation of marijuana whether or not you have a medical need for that reason so many questions. If marijuana is completely legalized. In California. What did these people that you met who are really using it as a safety net to help them survive in a bad economy and won't they get undermined when legitimate and huge corporate forces come into to sell some of these."

" People hoped to have more boutique operations just as we have large international. Wine brands such as Gallo but can we have your little boutique wineries that may be only makes a few hundred cases a year and charges a premium for it. I'm they hope to be part of the local more movement repeat the same people who went to the farmer's market further special apples that are from by the special farmer. May also. -- the next Booth over have Ferris wonderful special but."

" Well and and that's why you have Michael who had a 150000 dollar a year job that he lost and he now is -- you. Turning himself into a farmer and growing plants. And as you say carefully trying to establish himself as a serious businessman to the extent that he openly paying for everything has to do marijuana. With checks so that he is a trail in fact -- why he feels that if he can show that he can run a business professionally. He will be first in line to get a permit to do the -- The -- of Luke who is of the people you met he's not someone who's. Growing marijuana to cash in on it. He desperately need to he has aids he's terrible pain. And really eat up for hander it's a matter. How he lives. He can buy it at a dispensary but that's fifty dollars for an eighth of an ounce and on his Social Security income can't afford it so -- it's better than to grow and this."

" Illustrates a problem with the ways current medical marijuana on state of affairs -- in California. Deep pot clubs are driving for higher and higher quality and potency. But people who maybe are low incomes and desperately needed medically are getting priced out of this. So if it were legal perhaps you -- lower end market for these people just as. It's very very expensive to buy it locally produced organic food right now. So maybe there could be -- traitor -- from marijuana."

" You -- from. It's Susan kitchens close journalists in California -- story about the people who grow marijuana appears in the new issue of non Q magazine. It's published by the -- center for research media and public policy Susan thanks so much fascinating it was my pleasure -- Yeah. Remember this television theme a thunder clap opening yet another episode of the 1960s cult series. The prisoners during the late Patrick and doing as. Number sex he ex secret agent whisked off to an island spends the rest of the series trying to get back home button a precursor to the cost. Will the AMC cable channel home of mad men has remade the program it premieres Sunday November 15. Meanwhile the original prisoner is airing Friday nights and the Independent Film Channel. And it's just been released on dvd. And joining us to talk about the prisoner past and present. Is here now critic at large -- Siegel heretofore known as number seven."

" Problem thank you Robin and we don't know your number one put a bump and."

" And throwing numbers batting numbers about because they had a mean that was when -- eighteen things that the series they were numbers."

" That's right they don't have a name anymore. And and remind us more about the series and the -- started it but also wrote directed and produced that strike you as a one man band and he sold it to -- greater British producer right after they had collaborated on secret agent which was another spy series that they had sold to CBS."

" So -- just more about the plot he's resigned his positions mine. For some unnamed spying thing."

" And I'm like that's right and then he's -- Heidi he wakes up groggy in the village -- this step for it like suburban sprawl a place where every houses like every other house."

" And where everyone is monitored by a series of numbered twos now these are the nefarious leaders of the village their job is to get number six. To reveal why he quit the spy business -- sound of what life is like in the village."

" good morning good morning. I can't say yeah I didn't I. Not been gathered that morning I do not. But I'm being critical god is of the fine that would continue -- it -- not not."

" We know we noted in the sixties it's very -- early twenty Sunnis. That's -- feel."

" That's nothing particularly supernatural. Except for the Astride well it comes out of the ocean and drives everybody back into submission and that's. Aside from that it's just your average suburban place and."

" With these number Tuesday trying to get number six detailing quit the spy business and you have. And you have some tape from."

" We're gonna listen to his meeting with a most famous number two group led by Leo Curran who you might remember from rumpled -- aliens help."

" I asked actually yet you really. But I don't promote clockwork. You wouldn't mind do you. Two -- things that. Used to think you can escape from the six. Island to better than that go into a script and come back. Come -- and his skate come back what this place of the face the the two -- and do with it."

" There's a little bit of Kafka and there -- little bed George Orwell and a whole lot of Robin Hood actually where in the middle of the 1960s. So. Number six becomes one of those great iconic figures of the time is. Fighting the establishment he's railing against conformity and he's engaging in -- kinds of subversive activities. But you know he's also something of a conservative figure John Wayne rugged individualist. Going it alone and really disdainful of any kind of group think -- left order right."

" Many -- thought except the situation of imprisonment and I don't diet yeah hot rock and cabbages and Barack we are gonna look -- part of our campus. I am ten to discover and political prisoners and a probable cause."

" Patrick -- good as number six the original prisoner. So who gets to -- issues in the new prisoner."

" It stars Jim committees all who is the title character in Mel Gibson's infamous passion of the Christ and the grade English actor Ian McKellen plays to there aren't any numbers any more than six and two and McAllen gets top billing actually."

" Silly dropped word number. And they've. We seem to moved over to up to the number one slot in in billing anyway but it isn't straight remake."

" Known unrelated follow some very similar outline but one that -- much -- lost as you said this of those two of the prisoner that is an emphasis on flash faxes and Austin depressive characters and equally depressive. Camera work and some scenes there of these Twin Towers in the distance that kind of reminder of the World Trade Center. So tell Mercer -- in -- way. Here's the diesel of the -- spoken -- Mobley six cities learning though ways of the village here from McAllen."

" It's his parents. Taught us who do suggesting such a whole sky aliens landing secretly in the not. Mysterious wrote that -- bill bill a magic gate where perhaps some poll leaving them to never let -- Take it outside its X. People going about their lives strolling the suns team together in the pop. Well and whoever that might choose to sit together particular -- arrived at Dobson and joint -- in the -- and among Americans about the image. And -- and."

" So Siegel how asses the new prisoner TV series different from old one from the sixties in a way it's kind of Gallagher is re interpretation of of the old series. You know TV had never really seen anything like this before. And it reflected some of those are realistic tone of the sixties we mentioned the big ball that kind of -- right and kept people in line right. And six finally does break out at the end of the series and returns home to London. And justice is going in the door of his old place declines and back of them as if he's still a prisoner there and so did he escape or dignity. Gallagher kind of put his stamp on some of those questions that the original mask and you like his answer yeah. I think cancer that I really -- The v.'s oldest doesn't have the government's charisma. Listen to can be easel pronouncement of the series' famous declaration and compare it with the Patrick ago and still."

" Yeah it's."

" And somebody. I am I Freddie Mac. Yeah."

" Well and what are you saying you mean the more modern version seems a little overwrought. And also you know in the original and it's really -- I've kind of child of the sixties reader of this hero who. Stop at nothing to be afraid and in the new one the village -- less sinister. Of less of a -- there is less of state. That's why the original version was this really iconic and while the new London's kind of just a passing interest."

" Well but it -- a passing interest to use the new prisoner airs November 15 on the AMC cable channel. And the original is running now an Independent Film Channel and it says it's also available on dvd in a very attractive looking. -- and and singer here now critic at large and and for those listeners for whom none of this is familiar with. Let's -- that might be this is the theme song from Patrick van -- first series you mentioned. Secret agents series that he was in and the theme song has the line that men inspired him to make the prisoner were here in in differently now. And can you remember -- taken when you mean. And number seven and thank you."

" How many times to I have to say I am not a number I'm a free man --"

" It knows my. -- And -- one game means. --"

" Here now is production of WBUR Boston in association with the BBC world service and keep -- I'm not -- please join us again here and now."

" Funding for here."

" Radio international."