Title: Gandhi and Gandhigiri Chic

" For public radio international I'm Christopher -- this is open source. Distinctive skinny old man and the like who said -- that change you want this thing and others. The father of modern India's nonviolent struggle for independence Mohandas Gandhi. Is suddenly back in the culture for a generation you young Indian moviegoers who barely knew him or knew him at best his most trusted Richard attenborough big biopic of nearly 25 years ago. With the actor Ben Kingsley in the reverential Oscar winner called Gandhi. He goes by his boat named Bob hope in the new dandy movie which is a gangster flick a comedy. -- who is whispering -- counseled into the durable Bombay realistic who'd moved picture Jesus appearing to Tony soprano with case by case advice about turning the other cheek in the vanity of money and power. Gandhi wisdom with -- tough guy delivery is called Gandhi -- street talk to India this season and it may have a message for all of us next month open source."

" Open source has produced in association with the universe of Massachusetts Lowell with master's programs exploring new inner disciplinary approaches to environmental social and economic problems. For more information email RE EST you ML dot edu."

" I'm Christopher -- this is open source radio conversation on Internet lines -- free open and global at radio open -- on board. Talking this town about the reinvention of a culture hero in a bollywood movie that's been all the rage in India. About the real and spiritual father of that country the nonviolent change agent revered the world over Mahatma Gandhi. Thanks to Devon just die for suggesting this show are beginning to notice and examine the re animation of ideals. An idealist Robert Kennedy's an -- have a that we should probably talk about in this country but this hour the return of Gandhi in -- funny and very popular movie of all places. -- today I spoke with the screenwriter and director large amount to run about he has hit titled like -- whole -- by YA I wondered again the comedy in 2006."

" I want especially even opportunity the -- on -- up up with the right. Kind of reluctant probably if we don't look at people. Other big part of luck I want to make up for them. We itself on the order to look at and those were up you know more equipment what yet it intruded. But what better get what now."

" be honest people vote in -- you know and that's about it well -- political real bright in the continent real lightly -- but rather -- despite what appeared."

" Is this new for a great many Indians today. In the 21 century."

" Yes I would -- no way. We'll leave it dark or. It's slick politics drop out of them like our. The US of what he's -- automotive don't utility. -- a quarter outlook for the a couple of bad so. It might pick people off. Don't look. In -- that is sort of like every it will puppet shows -- that in. -- is we operate under its -- There's other -- gain the upper part. The Apollo and not well but -- A dispute -- he."

" The Gundy institutes did you show in the movie of -- the and the drive out places is that is that the way they are"

" that because because -- the -- if you look at public on -- that I. Ordered it. And well not problem on its -- of he knew it in --"

" What should the rest of us in in the world outside India know about Gandhi and applying -- unity. In our own lives."

" Every problem -- dirty talk that the artwork that was on the problem and I take -- that I had. Human beings we cat. Vote one of the problems we're just sitting -- talking about negotiating without rather than getting into. Starter in the not politically open wheel of the sort of happy -- up. Participate Mike Procter. The well I'll probably probably unique. Stop -- or -- it would stop look. It's talking anymore probably not this particular topic but it was unique event so you about -- uniquely enough protesting -- live up. It'd -- the contorted bank but it look. By them."

" It's a beautiful message and you speak it very eloquently we are grateful to you for your movie and for your join the conversation open source."

" That was wrench Camara Iran a screenwriter and director of the recent Hollywood hit about Gandhi and a modern day Bombay gangster returned about the Gandhi. Revival this hour our -- place Digi -- histories the new school university in New York City. As a Digi welcomed open source just what is it do you think it's being revived here is that the charisma of a man or is it it's the screen -- to suggest maybe. Code of the way things get done or or or complete Indian or human code of behavior clue what's what's what's behind it."

" I think will forceful buffoon is not the only thing that happened it's a very significant event public -- has been increased important for -- in India and elsewhere for playwrights in India and under full makers. Over the last for years. And what's really interesting about this I think is the fact that for the first time in decades Gundy has been removed from the confines often national ideology and of the Indian state and and being freed into Indian society and he needed to build -- society it's -- accidental and fact that this has happened at this time this is happening at the very time that India has and continued to become a kind of push him put it of a free market economy more or less one that is no longer guided by socialist principles where the date is you know be tracking. Protecting its tentacles from society. And so Gandhi has been freed up in this new space that has been created which is not entirely a positive base but due April Gandhi plays in this these -- is very very positively."

" had this state in effect nationalized Gandhi and what headed down with his legacy. But Gandhi had become the sort of -- flight saintly figure a pull no ill could be -- of course there were many on people on the right who didn't expect like on the those who point to and supportive of his action as you call Gandhi was assassinated sure how ever the -- it when you win. Like over as the what was the plausible popular case against him or devaluing him. Well he was disliked from the right as well as from if you will lift from the right she was disliked the local Hindu right it was disliked as being someone who."

" Apparently -- to minority populations like the Muslims and who squandered the unity of India and agreed to the partition of the country into India and -- in 1947 on the left he was disliked by the Communists on the one hand. Who whom he had in fact. In the 20s and communities but really destroyed as as the movement and on the other hand he was disliked by look at a number of no caste leaders and nor Katz struggled who thought that Gandhi was simply trying to keep your -- outcasts or untouchables and who were called and Indians in good didn't kind of a grip more mean all of orthodox hinduism I don't think any of these. Interpretations of -- entirely correct but those were his critic."

" It's resonate in the movie he says it as have two to liberate himself from the group at this stage pig distracted take the bridges in the parks he says. If you must keep -- in your heart."

" Yes that that is very striking and it's not a accidental therefore that Gandhi appears in the film in the kind of spectral -- like four he shall reflect Casper the friendly ghost. Although in a way -- to cancel gold and -- it would make the even more interest -- the fact that as you as you say everywhere you going to -- find these enormous looming statue of the Mahatma in the most in the oddest places away you know he would never have been who don't have that fort where -- life and in the in the great halls of the state to try to draw and and here he's being he's no longer associated with this heroic thinking -- communal wrong. He's become in fact but for gangster lifestyle which is extraordinary."

" And he obliged I was surprised today the gangster is Gandhi -- but I just when and what does this this liberated Gandhi -- saying. A boat or to the free market India outsource to India booming you know high tech India and also to the the divided India between the new rich in the and."

" The mass of poverty. I think I mean going to be even in his own time they during his own lifetime worked in various ways that has to date he was a different kind of person for different people and different. Factions and parties in India often break contradictory but I think one of the important things that he thing to date. The rich perhaps unifies that many of those in factions and parties is. The new India which has emerged over the last number of fears is that India which requires public life requires -- kind of our morality or ethics at two and you notion of ethics which is no longer tied holy. To good beneficent and the benevolence of the state it is now of the du TO full citizens to make Gandhi their own and to be chief in a manner. As Gandhi himself advocated that was individually ethical and did not simply -- into the state for all solutions to all problems."

" It sounds like shouldn't democratization of dandy net. All caught up in this in this lingo which I'd I take it. -- is what is meant -- we'll -- this after a short -- myself -- is with us from New School University -- others we're talking about the revival in -- the -- in -- Mahatma -- is open source will be back."

" Yeah hi this is Dave miller open source senior producer tomorrow we're talking about this I believe modern version of the popular Edward R -- series with its producer jay Allison who we believe the brains and heart -- much of what's good in public radio today. Post what you believe on the site also -- hand in the Congo comic -- heating up and taking the show in different directions away from coal and mining in particular and towards the Congo as a whole. Give us your way to -- radioopensource.org. Open source produced."

" An association with the University of Massachusetts Lowell and WG BH radio Boston this is open source from PRI's."

" I'm Christopher led mrs. open source with prodding on our own blog from Devon -- guy we -- talking about big guy Andy revival in India prodded most specially. In recent months by. Gangster comedy in which the ghost of -- advises sort of want to -- god father on turning the other cheek. Reggie she cholera joins us from New -- he's the chief editor of the times Internet in India and he -- postponed his. By 8:30 AM run to join us on the radio -- are welcome. And thank you yeah you're our Indian newspaper guy what had happened to the Gandhi legend in India in recent times"

" what happened there's going to be I would I would compare him to what has happened to decide on over the words you know you do that more as an exhibit. Yet like immediate site that it is that part of the world on appropriate it using them but not that it's not a picnic at a basement and big on the job is done. Gandhi's weapon that they've created here indeed the -- vehicle. It will auto all that is an India you'll -- it is it scares regarding the laws -- of what happened more than that. Beyond being cause if both lower east and that is that there are -- he had a lot about what -- And because he had it right that -- that now"

" but what had he come to mean and where was he on the map of the Indian mind is that included now you know Hindu nationalism and nuclear weapons and where -- easy."

" Are -- pardon me if I'm very funny but in India people who live on the market integration of lotta peoples are on the act he's the body -- idea about the -- the -- activities Sonia Gandhi. -- might not be -- companies have been given all lot of people's. I'm that this was a part of that particular medical more that something that that it didn't own just because -- rules you know mark up everything out before the exam no quarterback. But data and day out who is the electronic media aren't completely yet it would obviously be a vote -- and -- apparently got a band is popular that people react if that -- right now."

" Describe the effect to this movie we spoke with the screenwriter large -- who described himself as a filmmaker not an activist but what did happen in the movie came out."

" Eight if war critic clearly is something great actual the common man once again that -- he's -- president ideas for the dog -- to a these will be invaded Spartanburg in fact -- that it is such that it right let that it would be -- as being at least look he's been resolved over the can't -- this be another thought into what everybody's other things what can't be easy. Don't get that -- you know -- spared in those countries were pretty easy for the hand tools go on strike and create public property and blogger thing if you don't like something on the back. In order -- part of the country -- keep getting that those things that are happening in fact in Lucknow that is attack with loved the largest are based and then there. There were plenty of all the video that -- probably something in an appropriate state and sticking around about bunny but there's an -- it would have been -- knowledge that the parent -- that -- happening in the -- and they just started -- in part -- in the -- to do what you want -- to -- That but the movie has done it has -- that it start there. Now some bad -- yet he can do think that you want that he would but without developing tools the violin and all the pain you naked because Belinda it's pretty pretty idea."

" In the movie day in oh regular people stayed sort of protest against their their landlord or that want to be about it I've lived here more examples -- the year about to hear how this. Andy unity that you're speaking about is spoken."

" It is -- quite quite in it thinks it sort of happened is that what this movie in the Evander -- awful -- that in fact that was even discussing it runoff from meeting speculative movie has an act. I'm more mutilated it is on eBay party matter much more bent on the Israeli leaders as nominated -- may get somewhat Normal look. People -- other thing you know again in the meeting -- stepping out -- despair and come -- and their other kids that -- about he'd been -- that about it -- they had these days you know that any big test of the newspaper truck -- can -- into the -- that you -- not cut -- what is -- it and it you know -- get it might wonder what he did and I -- it be a positive and it. Because he could have done well mark if if you can remember in the lead is that there's a visit our greatest aid is argue that the will be barred debate -- recognize -- there. You know people -- talking about these things but it is the first standard explode you know get a pattern as -- police -- them."

" Quote -- you if you will probably the kind of catalogue the handbook of of favorite quotations I mean what what are you likely to hear when people start. Pulling the bidding living doctrine under the gun and he record what what what kind"

" Italy -- that -- before that you know it is it is this country. Gandhi had almost become a part of -- you know in -- you know and dump -- Nevada Martins ballet is they would not really understand what has happened they would get down to making -- up and I was -- is to look far and pivot -- that he not be -- Is that I don't. I don't country. Private event you know people have started -- did not want to is that Spain because I think it is quote -- band oh with somebody was both say that he was -- blog that's been. In fact he's become apparent you know my son comes up in the end says but then how did he do all that he'd been politically led directly into anything American -- question. And you -- about corporation right. Yes you ought to have it is expected to vote. And a lot of happen -- you know like anything with it ought to. If you want to find negative you can find a negative almost anything because they're quite a lot of negativity what he looked really bad but ultimately what has happened -- that the movies people -- Have also cited looking at the plaza they have -- that -- that because it is it would definitely outweigh the negatives in what he liked the witnesses night and probably try to -- on."

" Puzzle it decades sounds like -- kind of WW GD what wood Gundy do."

" Well in in America you know people carry a lot of people and not just. Evangelical Christians beware bracelets that -- WW JD what would Jesus do. You know not only only about what -- Jesus drive who would Jesus bomb this kind of thing but."

" Although they -- whether they had he was never looked back upon -- suspenseful -- it will -- on the and that they augment the fact that the defendant Gandhi's family and other people who -- problems and -- now people will not be as you know right attributes state then -- but I -- little -- he has somebody who -- god but gave it -- not but that's because we had not been -- and -- militant Taliban. He gained independence from the British and the -- didn't ever admitted that the that you hear about it my and what he would do and does that look almost a button you know it was going to talk about you'll you know it would be built if you look bad -- those people directly that I have been in what -- market because not many people who even predict direct. Beyond that he had actually been nothing but then fine boot quote that you get into some of these not visit schools and that they've been the motive in August brought on over thought of this nation on over."

" I so that zero what are you -- juror Gandhi -- begin and end."

" Even in Arab. It's the other thing -- level apartment in the country."

" I was I was asking a professor in New York. Well it but the potomac felt this way interest in for scuffle because it done it take up from -- technology which technically means gangsters or jumped I gave Richmond in the quality would be difficult fine two DT to use the wood Gundy DD which is a completely new word. It's -- basically compare that -- you know being like Gandhi to being -- to being like that. Fickle factor something that would DD been added to another -- it is not usually a positive doesn't create a positive took him in in -- But what's really interesting here is that for the first down therefore it's partly Gandhi is immediately getting him but Gandhi has been put amongst the people with whom he himself worked amongst whom you all worked. So that as -- being focused say often it's Bill -- point about non violence is that it it requires the violence rather requires the help of Gordon. Two to operate that that people. It requires goodness to operate penciled of the point being then is to withdrawal -- from evil in order oh for goodness to exist in its own right and that method of doing that is indeed non violence or. Precisely because -- it's not simply had seen it it -- that is of -- to withdraw from the world but the -- crystal from certain kinds of acts it becomes a kind of practice that is. Competing individualized it doesn't have to be an actual practical it could be a national practice. And indeed that's why the wood Gundy do you make sense because it's not something that it's not like a one size fits all unlawful behavior Gandhi thought -- if Winston that. On the idea of beauty what compete keeper. Everyone has their own beauty the whole point is this couple what you beauty is given what you conditioned -- and then to follow it. As the principles and didn't and not to DP eight but not everyone is aimed UT. A rich -- has a different due to promote corporate and Hindu has a different due to from Muslim Christian has a tetra so in an in depth and the wood Gundy duty. But its twin with other words make -- towards lake to -- duty or dog lucky becomes comprehensible it's no longer it's gone over the quality of acting like -- citizen like everyone hypothetic I'm I'm I think you're talking about a pop phenomenon which are also."

" Her sister and of the whole subcontinent at the level of professional re discovery of who Gundy was what choices he made what are people saying these days. I think strictly the -- a coalition gone he's becoming it is we agreed covered in a big way. And I myself on a -- fuel other yes discussed already -- brought up. I'm an I was younger I I too was exposed to you know Gandhi the photograph Gandhi sitting and spinning wheel my father would -- say to me you know he's from the great hero and I couldn't be left interest it. Because he was complete a kind of -- saint like figo who would not relate to me it's only been a haunted -- you being Gandhi a number of years ago but had to go but the genius of the men the extraordinary -- wants. An op it was impossible for me to actually remove him from wall that he geography into the -- I think -- this football coach who discovers especially this Fulham it's blood should come -- that Gandhi's a human being and that he has feelings and fallible and he. -- you know he's he makes."

" Eric -- indeed to confess all the time in self then he becomes truly someone who is on an important and we could comes alive but he comes alive as a human being. Who is fallible I mean it's not an accident that the in in the English version of his autobiography the subject of that book is the story of my experiments that true he conceived of his whole life and his to carry as the use of experiments. A -- offered to the world and he said he IE the -- of people but failing to people. And can embark on the set of experiments so can you because I am no more than anyone else he could he go from -- and the man I think that is what makes gone before attractive especially our times and we have the rise in the woods of new radically new forms of violence in against which. Normal molds of pacification did not seem to work. On life for me so --"

" We're going to back to that I want to ask right Jewish cholera in Delhi. About his own discoveries of gun dealers on education is funny moment in the movie with the gangsters are talking about who'll it was this -- and what about October 2 -- to begin his prepared who he. Well he's the guy who's mug for the currency notes skinny guy at the -- What was your experience growing up of of so."

" lot -- people with domestic then it'll be it was a part of our curriculum and I think I was wrong let you know -- Besides -- about -- an independent even at that time but -- is that apparently -- up looking at apparently looked 80s it is. And Barrymore party achieved effectively occupational going on right now. Is -- in -- heartbeat -- and big movies have actually is based in as many many positive manner and it looked up at the bit daunted EDT on music out of all the quality blood was scoring. It's a bit boom who global about there's been evading you -- because then we're not. And that act of it and letting people that on Quebec beauty and the that your personal ought to go to everybody as if you know you cause -- beauty in India. If you want but it looked -- of the act are involved you know right. It's almost like -- people that means if I -- that they invited all the effect that I think the president is going there and they -- bit on that Eric got all the content on dvds and that is what has really caught on and what you want to go to as do."

" Did you see the Ben -- morning."

" Yeah I did get into the bank."

" And and put it remained deal."

" They are very they've been able what does that say is getting the Prime Minister at dawn that are bought are people who was going up Iowa a gauntlet on the Internet is band I spoke about upbeat but I decide shorten that can live bought it bought back on -- it would act is recognized then compared Vietnam but he apparently that is what happens normally I didn't get that it executive. Because the more we have what publicity and then of course that led by the -- that is the newspaper editors this thing was well of that. People really are band is live on Sunday."

" It won best picture and it it was a worldwide phenomenon but the question. Which we've got to sort of wrestle with for the us this is what would it."

" I mean if these these doctrines this spirit were actually put into practice I think a friend rushed about Iran is screenwriter actually believes that that I had these are words to live by."

" I I I actively Eric uncovered what it -- of the Pentagon is that because bed as Olmert backed -- used in the -- mark might not be would have. And that's that I condone bigamy and his principal of ideas that does auditions -- believe something that has bought -- is -- it is possible that he could see it happening and that that they've done that Unita is delighted that almost become everybody's talking about it you know whenever anybody could easily summed up in the -- anything. Decapitate a hypnotist of that and -- about you know that it dominated the -- on the respect out of the big division. Manipulated the enlightenment people who haven't gotten poet and inspect it and resolve and that the enveloping it yet not find binding on the -- oracle broke at all says. He made -- look has been Diana's death by giving looked -- by reminding the -- analytical organic act getting -- was actually the best of Portland."

" Well one of the lines that show up in your newsroom meeting."

" They ain't gonna let a little pep talk about it if somebody's mind that it will get other -- you're not bad -- like you know and it is not and -- innovative that you'll we'll make our topic is active they let people take -- to create another thing that happened you know. Exactly -- if that particular speaking it's people who have started looking and it but compared to about we have a -- it -- it's something opulent -- I'm really going to bed at our. Nowadays because that's -- kind of -- ambiguity a lot of happen at some of the -- the that the company's market -- one -- of something that I don't they have the editor of the department big topic and that is happening and IP -- the positive development."

" Well that is -- I'm hoping registrar that you stick with -- the -- but let me just -- before before we -- that the novelist -- bush has impressed upon -- many times that. The that the gift of Gandhi to India becomes more and more important and more violent and and rare and special in a world that is still struggling in so many places in Africa and southeast Asia. God knows in the Middle East with the getting over the burdens of colonialism and imperialism and in India. Gundy showed the way it's still makes -- lot of -- talk about the guy and a revival on open source. I'm Christopher -- this is open source for talking about the Mahatma Gandhi revival in a movie popular. Gangster flick a comedy in India. It may be much more brought in. I told edgy as the history the new school in New York get us started on rethinking Gandhi as a global figure in a."

" is still sort of post colonial world."

" And I think I'm one of the things that happened with this new popularity of country unlawfully with the film but the good of the pieces of scholarship journalism took that have been going on the last few years is that it signals an awfully Gandhi's of freedom from the clutches -- you know kind of old -- state machine. But also -- is released into his own work which is to say the what -- that the world all an international and as who'd taken a global war. That was the -- in which he -- operated he did not operate within the board of the Indian nation state he died than you are often. -- operated in the British empire. And obedient the word a word even beyond the British empire remember the Gandhi spent 20 isn't South Africa whose fame was made in on Africa he's really experiments when called -- of Gandhi was not a national figure in that sentence -- reason to wonder one of the interesting things about his -- Bible now is precisely because I think all the process of globalization in which India and other countries are involved. It it gives Gandhi back -- is his own stature. In -- way that he not only two of the citizens from particular country -- to speak to if you really humanity at large enough to humanity's only object of the globe the only subject of globalization gone -- I think was quite clear about -- even though he of course was entrusted in India. And drew his resources from the richness of Indian civilization so I think that context is extremely important it's also important because -- the Gundy DDT is that would know it is. It's a bulk and intake the act is not confined to citizenship that is not confined to state that can be carried that's transportable that's kind of picked up Ortiz I think that's another reason why Gundy has become a kind of figure a new kind of figure even though his unit is also returned to his if you -- to hit his own origins I think that as far as the context content the global context is completely appropriate four re imagining -- rediscovering Columbia as as a personality and but I could stressed here that big Gundy who isn't coverage should not be and I hope people not be and the film tells us that he's not in fact simply creations and -- and in offensive person because in that way in -- if you will that he has no you you might as well be you know remained the finger printed on the current signal to every current adult off."

" I think your point exactly I'm still trying to think of and they in the -- have bush framework. And it but it bears own it bears on the war in Iraq it bears on the the this what a lot of people would she is -- relapse into a neo colonial system of domination in the sense that the the sort of when when concede the bush and Blair -- has sort of forgetting the lessons. Colonialism and imperialism but also the Third World having forgotten the the -- in response. Two yes two oppression through."

" But not entirely because if you if you look closely at points than a look that tax statements that the Clinton coming out of both Iraq and upon is gone but what's very interesting even though the emerged from people -- extremely violent. Every now and then you find a mention of Gandhi which is strikingly interest and I've noticed from me you know I qaeda and Iraq a country even people who gore and those matters -- if even they have not forgotten -- Hebrew -- would -- possibly mean to them. The fact that he's even mentioned about that in some kind of genuine or not is that is most interest in rituals that Gandhi has not in -- night especially in the code -- the last the most and they had on points and -- on. I noticed that in the bookstores of -- on which which -- very about Stockton. For all walks by Weston authors and European philosophers you also have gone being sold in you know in Persian translation a million Karachi or and a -- buck island country which is the greatest -- India -- you know which into folding moment the pie that rejected -- even there. I'm Michael -- what's the what might copies of Gandhi's what what on hinduism or in the Islamic walk Bucs on light pink. Even dole Gandhi's influence might be subterranean and somewhat hidden it does exist even in the places the least likely -- to take. -- Colorado for a reason."

" I'm precedent that the presidency has mentioned Pakistan and can you imagine dandy Geary and again and revival being applied. To some of the toughest questions India faces -- politically specifically Pakistan and Kashmir problem."

" In my I've got a date has not lost development in fact he looked at Austin but you know refuted -- look at -- me. It got BPD the concept is being used and you let people is that the discount pianist Margaret to get -- that it is definitely something because of prostate"

" you know they're living in fact wondered agitation had almost -- without understanding what if any laws but I see that it again as far as it in the -- issue between India and Pakistan border issues that concern. I must stay here that I want them Pakistan went up the physical and the first of the -- you know that would have either Latin regarding its inevitable because let you know -- that one because what we're not I I haven't seen that we'll get -- of Pakistan. It is they can but I'm record market are and what are your vote if it meant I was acting look up to keep it because that is in -- And I like are acting inspector mark and that market -- event and they ought to give me that they -- it is more peaceful mark and you are about their. If it's -- I'm bad I'm sure that because people allege that beatings because they're in bed denied that part about let me pop idol image and a lot but argued that estimate of -- Indian nation. David -- every issue that anybody would get up to the united is that -- the pros and but they're they're created the -- he wanted to let you there's it's something that can be executed can't get right university. It is not restricted -- country it's usually repudiated look at it but because it does it says. It'll be equal giving and also have a have a bit -- given state. The fact you're -- intent it -- caused."

" Playing at university is one -- how about applying it locally applying it very specifically. To that no nuclear standoff"

" I I think it it is that it is political -- that I think that this can get lightning and emotion much stronger than what I'm will be unknown candidate I think. It's not possible but I don't think he got happening. You can there's talk about it but and yet -- that I don't eat these it again like -- if you thought because of the somewhat loud -- market centers on occasion it if it occurred between the cool idea that you get but -- by the bumping and built it -- it is. I think you can do it like that I don't even in Pakistan Budapest."

" I saw that you deal. I'm not sure that level what could happen whether let's ethics has even been practice although I wouldn't -- And wouldn't to boss Steven our current crop of politicians because. As it turns out looking at India separately and box and to -- the degree you eat that even among political parties who want explicitly opposed to on the the Gandhi in the practice to survive in no matter -- disingenuous for it's going to be off for all Wallace and to remain for being figo was no one has ever be as as popular Ghandi in India and in even in box fund in the in the sense that stood before the partition of India so that the practice that he set up by used even by -- so Gandhi's influence I don't think should be measured only by eagles green with him. He influences even those who go to view them in the in the in the manner in which day -- arrest and drew you know go to jail very often. In the kinds of processions they undertake across the country the salt funk on the famous halt marched in India was replicated in in a curious way by a kid bunnies but -- in -- to you know many many decades later so that. In a way even been Gandhi's not even when he is ostensibly ignored and buys. He remains an active participant in the histories of India and box on precisely because of who we want topical for the saint but because he did something really extraordinary that only an ordinary man could do yes."

" Relatives say that this total the the intimate person to person terms of this. Of this guy and Geary and the kind of revival. And specifically in the dimension of class and and inequality witches -- itself clear in the in the movie what does this Gundy revival. I have to say about the gulf between haves and have nots in modern India."

" I don't but that it be you know one one can't really see much of the moment except to note that among the various actions that have been that scheme to funnel from the movie you know these these people tending flowers two to government officials or you know impoverished farmers and some states doing the -- to some corrupt officials somewhere the Ds actions have been taken as much by a have not as they have by people who have power and Exel back it's it's. How should -- put it it's a language that you may find that that is that mobilizes all kinds of people but it doesn't unified them on the -- is as it should be in the sense."

" I'd ask you is one who lives in America. The screenwriter -- commercial -- spoke about this new revival. Or there's the -- of Gundy both in connection with the American attitudes say toward Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln for that matter can you imagine an American. Parallel to this revival of -- Geary."

" I -- it always possible kinkle someone like Martin Luther King especially. As enjoying that kind of revival I don't personally each happening at the moment but that's also to -- going to say that fail to recognize that Martin Luther King has not. Never suffered the kind of indignity off all -- Being absent you can be captured by state machinery in the -- that Gandhi had to be talking about penal apples and oranges in a way Monday night the other tactic that comes to mind and all these characters of course are interlinked because -- it's not accidental that Martin Luther King claimed a kind off -- claimed inspiration from gone the and it's also -- accidentally voted Nelson Mandela. The African national congress was named after the Indian national congress of the fact that Gandhi lived in South Africa is not -- either so that the the -- living figure today 22 to -- and having figures would be someone like you know Mandela it shows you that they. That I'm not saying that Gandhi's or that the for the fallen to origin of all notions of non violence and -- be inherited by others on I'm -- is that. There is there's an interest in kind of idealism and indeed connection between various kinds of people who don't want. -- haven't -- practices would -- all think of the new wave but who learn from each other and pencil that there is -- change that that stretches from decade to decade and that that in -- he if you we've gone to duty the reemerge in different places in different parts of the -- and -- is something in an all these two cases I mentioned Gandhi Martin Luther king and Nelson Mandela the results have been extraordinary without the use of armies police forces attack. Absolutely true."

" Ministry instructed its hugely encouraging us to just to hear you talk but I also wonder you know. For all of us where would you begin those of us who in this -- grew up on this Richard attenborough will be where would you begin -- in learning about Gandhi. -- as in in many ways here you're suggesting there is a kind of father. Global interconnected that's that's going to be with the planet for the rest of time."

" I think you know I mean there's no harm in starting to be debate of Gandhi because once you start doing that you realize what an eccentric. And as he himself put it a Balkan -- cranky one he would fad you know various kinds of food fad than other forms. You know all -- in -- Mazda and did he had treated expect everyone to follow him handles all want to called -- which he just realized that he is not -- every match you know he's he's and he didn't. A couple of health has been the a universal finger even though he said he was quite ordinary like ordinary people I think that the that the what comes away with it is the exquisite courtesy of -- ethics because -- the instead of wanting to do anything we often tend to think about problems that need to be resolved. As problem that required new ms. Gandhi popped open -- they're required unto the required withdrawal his ethics is based on indication so if you fall into which he turned violent in -- frosting by by going to jail by doing all these things he'd meet him off his own body. In -- spectacle that invited a certain kind of for and he hoped and he was written that the response could only be ethical and principle it was like Gandhi was being look if you look coolly. If you are -- or principles according to what you say when it is to destroy me or to kill someone then you would respond to my invitation. Off busting at the drug might killing me -- putting -- in -- they do all those things if you hesitate to do so you would realize that you -- not true to what you that you and therefore you would recognize the -- if you own proclaimed convictions an act according to principles in a way he said that others should he himself came to act according to principles and -- I think an invitation was allow others to recognize what their principles should be and to act according to them as well not my doing anything but by as a -- undoing things."

" You make me understand why a this is is everybody has said that the -- books are just flying -- the shows in India -- Colorado last word from you where were you begin in a modern global re education and and the magic the mystery the importance of Mahatma Gandhi."

" You can get the video but these people will look at investing what -- turned on dvd you would -- almost into the unit lesbian -- that in this country in India that is has started of course I'm about the beauty. And there's going to be any gore does not mean that they're talking about -- time -- and Arabic the only -- that is basically any using his real you know -- and other being. The stampede of artwork -- that result developing to a lot of arms and extract you know Akins merit systems all -- but the spark."

" If he's -- years. And I getting right with a bed and as an independent mention. Mark I got -- started something which are that have started forming -- you can eat beef although it has been Manila adventures -- if you can lead this country music apparently did any good bit back a moment right back. I'm sure -- might relate back even though it has begun mariners market maker now if it continues then you've been done it he can actually see it happening all political."

" Well we're going to keep happening on open source where enormously grateful for this conversation in Delhi thank you to the -- Jewish cholera in New York defies vote to achieve. In India also thank you to Raja Kumar the -- animal by people keep talking about Gandhi and -- giving you can help us work in the next shows that radioopensource.org. We can also download any showed subscribed open sources podcast. Open -- produced in association with the University of Massachusetts -- and WG BH radio in Boston program is made possible by the schooner foundation who's contributed support physicians for human rights. Promoting health by protecting human rights WWW dot PH RU SA does orgy radios open radioopensource.org website. Hosted by and TJX CO NT EG -- dot com. Our show was produced by David miller Brendan Greeley -- did go Chelsea emerged Robin -- and Greta -- from rob here -- Toby was -- engineer thanks also to Nancy Galloway. Mary McGrath is our executive producer and Christopher -- join us next time -- open source. Yeah these are. Public radio international"